From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V1 #180 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, December 12 1998 Volume 01 : Number 180 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #179 ["Wilson, Paul" ] Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #179 ["charles / wmo" ] Absolute ["IBRAHIM BOZAI" ] So what Wire albums DO you play? [Chester Ward ] Re: So what Wire albums DO you play? [Craig Grannell ] Re: The Haring [Andrew N Westmeyer ] Re: So what Wire albums DO you play? ["avalyn" ] Re: Absolute [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:28:23 -0000 From: "Wilson, Paul" Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #179 Craig Grannell > wrote: I know from my experience with Wire and all the solo projects that certain LPs I find less than endearing (such as Pink Flag, Commercial Suicide, etc) do help put newer works into perspective and are therefore still worth hanging on to. One can see a path of development and go back to any of the various points rather than going to disparate places. I agree. I would NEVER get rid of any of my albums or singles. They are a part of me. I've still got the first 4 Queen albums and every Genesis album up to "...And Then There Were Three..." in my collection. There was a reason for buying them at the time (even though I can't for the life of me think what it was - I can't really have actually liked them - could I?). I have just got a copy of "The Haring", and on first listening have decided that I'll never play it again! But I'll never sell it either - just in case. I felt like this when I first bought Document and Eyewitness, but now it is quite high on my play-list of Wire LPs. The same thing happened when I bought "Pinheads On The Move", the double LP by Tuxedomoon. I was convinced I would never play that again, after the first listening. But after ten years I gave it another try and now the track "The Stranger" is my all time favourite song! If I'd sold it, I would never get the wonderful experience I now have each time I listen to that particular song. On the subject of new acquisitions, I have just received a copy of the Wire video that Uri did. Some of it is great, some not so (the WIR Kilburn concert footage). I love the interview with Peter Principle (Tuxedomoon), a real bonus for me. Is it worth the thirty quid - I think so (even though there is a period of Wire's history not covered in much detail, Drill era). My only complaint is that it only comes in a plain white cardboard sleeve. I'll be rectifying that myself by knocking one up using some of the pictures on the Wire website. I am also in the process of doing a 90 minute Wire compilation tape for the car. I've done one for each of my favourite groups (Residents, Tuxedomoon, Eyeless In Gaza, TV Personalities etc.). The Wire one is proving the most difficult as I want to include all of "Chairs Missing", "154" and most of "Coatings", plus a lot more - BUT IT JUST WON'T ALL FIT! There's a challenge for you all. What would you put on? I'll let you know if I ever manage to decide. Paul KW ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:08:53 -0800 From: "charles / wmo" Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #179 >In fact, I have never thrown a CD away - I find my taste >sometimes moves in circles or merges. I know if any of the records >went missing or were sold I'd probably regret it later. If I had EVERY LP or CD that I ever purchased or recieved, other than needing another house to store it all, I'd certainly not have very many things to purchase - the majority of my music purchases are replacing old albums that I USED to own! Not that I pine for those Wang Chung or Sonic Youth CD's, but if I still had all those Hawkwind, Magma and Hugh Hopper records... I guess the point is be REAL sure you won't want it later - and who knows what you may want later. The best judge of this is if it has a Barcode on the back - if it DOES, it won't be hard to replace. charles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:47:32 -0500 (EST) From: "IBRAHIM BOZAI" Subject: Absolute On Dec 10, 6:47am, charles / wmo wrote: > Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #178 > >I remember reading > >some quote from John Lennon where he talks about music as furniture and the > >difference between a chair that you can just appreciate and music you can > >actually sit on. I want to be able to sit on all of the CDs in my > >collection. > > > >Am I making any sense here? > >ibrahim > > Don't be short sighted either. Even though I don't think I'd ever want to > listen to PF, I find it discard the CD as a reference tool, or lexicon if > you will. Spliting up the first three Wire CD's (or ANY in my humble > opinion) is like dismantling a Dinning Room Set piece by piece. > > charles >-- End of excerpt from charles / wmo Sure, I can see what you mean but I'm interested in narrowing everything down to what it is that I actually like. Being able to consider "the whole story" can be nice but that's a thrill that lasts only a short while. My real reason for tuning in is S O U N D - that history stuff can be nice but it's not enough to renew my membership in the cult. Sound. Anything else is just not "it". And I suppose my new found aversion to concepts that aren't backed up by good sounds is related to this too. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 01:55:43 +1100 (EST) From: Chester Ward Subject: So what Wire albums DO you play? Wow. This forum lately seems to be nothing a discussion of which Wire albums people DON'T play. So far, seemingly everything but A Bell Is A Cup and Ideal Copy have been thoroughly dismissed as non-essential and fluffy. And the only Newman solo that hasn't been given the big stamp of disapproval is Bastard. I have never before seen a group of fans dismiss so much of the work of the artists being considered in an email list. I've come to the conclusion that a Wire fan is someone who owns all the albums, but only likes one or two. Call me mad, but I kinda miss the guy posting the stuff about the satanic back masking Newman allegedly stuffed into the background of If I Die I Die. But it could be worse...I guess if Wire fans were like, say, Deadheads, who cling to every note the band puts out no matter how trite or superfluous it may be, I would've gotten bored and UN subscribed to the list months ago. Anyhow...I must come to the defense of the much maligned Pink Flag, Manscape, and Take Care since Penguin Island has already been adequately defended. Pink Flag: Are you people insane? This was THE definitive punk rock album of the late '70s. It's impact on music is immeasurable. A brilliant sonic burst that was never duplicated, despite every other band's attempts to...witness the endless string of cover versions from this album. And it earned Wire a place in the heart of every punk rocker from that era, even though it was their only dip into the genre. Manscape & Take Care: OK...they're both kind of dancey. I have a friend who mistook Manscape for Depeche Mode. That is, however, merely a result of surface listening. Both of these releases have such incredible brilliance UNDERNEATH the beats that they can't be dismissed as dance floor fodder only. They are both masterpieces, IMHO, of subversive dance music. You can shake booty to them, then actually LISTEN to them. Irresistible little pop riffs with dark, brooding undercurrents are always welcome in my CD deck. And as far as being a completist goes, I am not one. I only own things that I like. I happen to have bought the entire Wire/Wir catalogue over the years. I guess that means I like all their albums. I'm a huge Elvis Costello fan too, but you'll never find a copy of Goodbye Cruel World in any stack of mine. It was a shitty record, period. So if any of you people who are thinking of dismantling your collections really do dismantle them, drop me a line. I may want what you're getting rid of...I wear many copies out, loan them to friends who spirit them away, etc... CHEERS! CC Ward _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 05:35:08 +1100 (EST) From: Craig Grannell Subject: Re: So what Wire albums DO you play? - ---Chester Ward wrote: > > Wow. This forum lately seems to be nothing a discussion of which Wire > albums people DON'T play. > I have never before seen a group of fans dismiss so much of the work > of the artists being considered in an email list. I think it's merely a case of people giving their personal priorities when it comes to the back catalogues. I don't think there was any one person saying they hated all but a couple of LPs (maybe I'm wrong here but I don't think so). Everyone dismisses what they consider irrelevent or whatever, but that rarely amounts to more than a couple of albums. >But it could be worse...I guess if > Wire fans were like, say, Deadheads, who cling to every note the band > puts out no matter how trite or superfluous it may be, I would've > gotten bored and UN subscribed to the list months ago. > Precisely, one must be constructive. Most pop fans don't tend to be (heh, -huge- generalisation!). Many people I know buy everything by and rant on about Oasis and such-like, even the -really- dire stuff just because it's by Oasis who have become some kind of surrogate god to them. I think, both past and present, those involved with the Wire story prefer constructive criticism (which, of course, is not always good) rather than a bunch of "yes-men" followers! > Pink Flag: Are you people insane? This was THE definitive punk rock > album of the late '70s. Exactly ... of the 70s! However, I think this album has had more than its fair share of praise over the past on this list. It can take a bit of a battering. > Manscape & Take Care: OK...they're both kind of dancey. Both of these releases have such > incredible brilliance UNDERNEATH the beats that they can't be > dismissed as dance floor fodder only. I've not heard all of TC but Manscape was something of an annoying experience for me. It could have been a masterpiece - Children of Groceries / You Hung your Lights ... / Small Black Reptile are mesmerising, atmospheric tracks and among the best of Wire's work. However, I feel there are too many lazy / indifferent tracks on that release to make it truly worthwhile. It did, however, set the scene for my personal favorite 'The First Letter', and I'd imagine it's also partly responsible for some of Colin and Graham's 90s work, most of which is excellent. At least it is in my opinion ... ;) Craig. == - ---------------------------- Craig Grannell-------------- www: SNUB.COMMUNICATIONS - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk Wireviews - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wirehome.html - ---------------------------- cngrannell@yahoo.com ------- "Creativity is the highest civilising faculty - Ben Okri" - --------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:56:22 -0600 (CST) From: flaherty michael w Subject: The Haring On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Wilson, Paul wrote: > have just got a copy of "The Haring", and on first listening have decided > that I'll never play it again! But I'll never sell it either - just in > case. I felt like this when I first bought Document and Eyewitness, but now > it is quite high on my play-list of Wire LPs. The same thing happened when My experience w/ D & E was similar to yours. Advice on Haring: Wait until some time when you're in a reflective mood. Turn out all the lights, and play it loud. Think of it as a piece of audio art. If that doesn't work, wait a few years and try it again. Just a suggestion, Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:29:02 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: Re: The Haring Excerpts from mail: 11-Dec-98 The Haring by flaherty michael w@rice. > On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Wilson, Paul wrote: > > have just got a copy of "The Haring", and on first listening have decided > > that I'll never play it again! ... > My experience w/ D & E was similar to yours. Advice on Haring: > > Wait until some time when you're in a reflective mood. ... I too felt the same way about both D&E and The Haring. They're both acquired tastes. I give The Haring a thumbs-up now. It's like watching a TV show without the video part. If you really have a hard time listening to it, print out the lyrics from the web page and follow along. That seems to go against the spirit of spoken word, but we have to ease into these things! Regarding the video... Excerpts from ideal: 11-Dec-98 Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #179 by "Wilson, Paul"@bury.gov. > My only complaint is that it only comes in a plain white cardboard sleeve. > I'll be rectifying that myself by knocking one up using some of the > pictures on the Wire website. Let me make a recommendation. Use one of the pictures of Colin or Bruce that Uri took. That way it's Wire-related, Uri-related, and not copyrighted! I used the picture of Bruce for my pre-Whore tape since it seemed to be a suitable punishment for him not wanting to have his picture taken! (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "What a blessing that so much of humanity is able to be alive at the same time as myself." -Cecil Adams ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:42:43 -0500 From: "avalyn" Subject: Re: So what Wire albums DO you play? I love IBTABA, A bell is a cup.., The ideal copy, and The First Letter from the new incarnation. Manscape was ok but really uninspired. I love both He Said albums in particular Take Care (lots of great memories from college - listened to this album a lot and Fade Out by Loop). 154 rocks. I like Commercial Suicide alot also. Can anyone give me an idea about the sound of Dome. I've always been curious about what those releases sound like. Can anybody make a cdr of Wire Bsides for me. I have lots of stuff to trade if interested. Check out my trade list at http://members.home.net/imel1. Thanks - -----Original Message----- From: Chester Ward To: idealcopy@smoe.org Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 12:36 PM Subject: So what Wire albums DO you play? >Wow. This forum lately seems to be nothing a discussion of which Wire >albums people DON'T play. So far, seemingly everything but A Bell Is A >Cup and Ideal Copy have been thoroughly dismissed as non-essential and >fluffy. And the only Newman solo that hasn't been given the big stamp >of disapproval is Bastard. > >I have never before seen a group of fans dismiss so much of the work >of the artists being considered in an email list. I've come to the >conclusion that a Wire fan is someone who owns all the albums, but >only likes one or two. Call me mad, but I kinda miss the guy posting >the stuff about the satanic back masking Newman allegedly stuffed into >the background of If I Die I Die. But it could be worse...I guess if >Wire fans were like, say, Deadheads, who cling to every note the band >puts out no matter how trite or superfluous it may be, I would've >gotten bored and UN subscribed to the list months ago. > >Anyhow...I must come to the defense of the much maligned Pink Flag, >Manscape, and Take Care since Penguin Island has already been >adequately defended. > >Pink Flag: Are you people insane? This was THE definitive punk rock >album of the late '70s. It's impact on music is immeasurable. A >brilliant sonic burst that was never duplicated, despite every other >band's attempts to...witness the endless string of cover versions from >this album. And it earned Wire a place in the heart of every punk >rocker from that era, even though it was their only dip into the genre. > >Manscape & Take Care: OK...they're both kind of dancey. I have a >friend who mistook Manscape for Depeche Mode. That is, however, merely >a result of surface listening. Both of these releases have such >incredible brilliance UNDERNEATH the beats that they can't be >dismissed as dance floor fodder only. They are both masterpieces, >IMHO, of subversive dance music. You can shake booty to them, then >actually LISTEN to them. Irresistible little pop riffs with dark, >brooding undercurrents are always welcome in my CD deck. > >And as far as being a completist goes, I am not one. I only own things >that I like. I happen to have bought the entire Wire/Wir catalogue >over the years. I guess that means I like all their albums. I'm a huge >Elvis Costello fan too, but you'll never find a copy of Goodbye Cruel >World in any stack of mine. It was a shitty record, period. So if any >of you people who are thinking of dismantling your collections really >do dismantle them, drop me a line. I may want what you're getting rid >of...I wear many copies out, loan them to friends who spirit them >away, etc... > >CHEERS! > >CC Ward >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:03:35 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Absolute On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, IBRAHIM BOZAI wrote: > Sure, I can see what you mean but I'm interested in narrowing everything down > to what it is that I actually like. The problem I would have trying to put this into practice is assuming that what I actually like now would be the same five years from now, or next year, or next week for that matter. I only know that every time I've tossed a recording, at some point I've regretted it - if only to listen to it and say, "my god this really does suck." - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::flag on the moon...how'd it get there?:: ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V1 #180 *******************************