From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V1 #117 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, September 1 1998 Volume 01 : Number 117 Today's Subjects: ----------------- the new stuff (was: idealcopy-digest V1 #115) [Martin theBernd Schmeil ] Re: the first letter/number [flaherty michael w ] Robert's drumming reconsidered (was: German Shep) ["David C. Kwan" Subject: the new stuff (was: idealcopy-digest V1 #115) I have been at 3 Wire shows, Berlin (1985?), where Snakedrill hasn't been out, Bremen a year or two later, a few months before the released A Bell Is A Cup and sometime later Bonn. I have been disappointed from the Berlin show since I expected at least one or two songs from the early 80s era (the stuff Colin put on A-Z and Not To for example). Also the sound was too cold and mechanic to me (my favourite album is Chairs missing, but songs like Too Late change during repitition). Anyways, when Snakedrill came out I knew what to expect and liked it, there were some sounds which reminded me to old Wire (or Controversial Subject from The The). Then familiar with the new Wire we went to Bremen and it was a good show. Lots of stuff from A Bell Is A Cup. Someone taped the show and I later got a tape (which i probably lost, it wasn't that good anyways, because the recorder had those fucking automatic level-stuff). The show was good, the music had energy and everything was fine (especially since we met Graham and Bruce after the show talking with us and serving and paying our beer!) A few months later I got A Bell Is A Cup and you can imagine how disappointed I have been. No raw edge, just much too clean pop. I mean I wished I had an album with 15 pop songs like Outdoor Miner but this (IMO) was a waste of songs that might have been good in another production. After that I lost my interest in the new Wire, especially after IBTABA (I bought all their records though). When finally Robert left the band I knew that it'll soon be over (the Bonn show - - where Robert had to deal with the fucking rhythm machines - was also a sign). Every now and then I listen to the first three albums and if I'll listen to a new one it will probably be Manscape because I feel like I didn't give it a fair chance (I might find something on this one). I hope the WMO Colin Demo release will be without remixes (someone should convince Colin). - - tB! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 08:32:27 -0700 (PDT) From: BillyD Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #115 When I lived in Pittsburgh I was about 15 minutes away from Andy's grave. + The Warhol is an amazing museum... Cheers, BillyD - ---Steve Jackson wrote: > > >Hmm....is it the music or Lou's voice? The only stuff I really don't care > >for by them are the songs off the first album that Nico sings (unless > >you're into that cold robotic monotone that makes the word "clown" sound > >like "clonn") :) > > Useless fact..Nico is buried about 10 miles from where I live. (not that > this fact makes the Velvets records any better) Personally, despite my > comments re "What Goes On" ,I think VU are over-rated, but I genuinely think > their 3rd album is a classic (and I love the cheesy guitar solo on "Rock and > Roll" off "Loaded" > > -----Original Message----- > From: auteur@ix.netcom.com > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Date: 30 August 1998 16:58 > Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #115 > > > >>What about IBTABA? This is one of the more > >>diverse things they did. > > > >Absolutely! The reworking of the songs and the production on this are > >top-notch! > > > >>For the record, I haven't met a Brit that wasn't a huge Velvets fan. > >>Personally, I can't listen to them at all, ever! > > > > > > >Eric > >auteur@ix.netcom.com > > == /\/\/\ [ X X ] .. ---- -Wahoo! (R) SOT Ltd. New York, London, Paris, Munich http://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:01:58 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Re: the first letter/number On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, Miles Goosens wrote: > At 02:34 PM 8/28/98 -0500, flaherty michael w wrote: > >I actually think of the 80s as their weakest decade. Taste is a funny > >thing, isn't it? ... which led to an interesting discussion more or less outlining this original point. I've been amazed at just how many different people have been attracted to Wire and for how different the reasons (generally a good thing, as long as we remember are taste do not constitute facts). If anyone would have told me in 1979 that there would be Wire fans who criticized their material that wasn't "pop" enough, I wouldn't have believed it. That there are shows the bands versitility, I guess. I generally agree with Eric--I like the 80s Wire but it's too slick and pop for my tastes, which run toward the 70s material, Dome, solo Gilbert, and, more and more I find, 90s Wir(e). This is not to say I don't like anything else. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:46:43 -0800 From: Thom Heileson Subject: Re: the first letter/number auteur@ix.netcom.com wrote: > I don't necessarily have a problem with IDEAL, but when I hear ABIACUIIS, > I feel it's rather tame compared to the diverse and experimental work > that had preceded it. I know Colin in particular wanted a "softer" sound > for this album, but to me this "soft" translated as > somewhat...um...bland. I think a lot of this stems from the technology > available (a huge portion of mid to late 80's stuff has horrible > mastering and mixing to my ears). I used to, for a some years, feel this way about A BELL... I felt it all sounded same-y , too monochromatic in texture, etc... but at some point (I'm sure it involved headphones) I discovered a lot of nice details I hadn't been aware of before, and really got into it. Just my $.02 that I see A BELL as one of Wire's more subtle works, an one which rewards repeated listenings. Steve Jackson wrote: > Changing the subject..funny things mixes. Friends I know prefer the Colin > version of "Ambitious", how????? The Lewis version is fantastic it it's > preposterousness! (had to look that up in the dictionary.) I've always really loved the IDEAL COPY version of Ambitious... it was a while before I head the 2nd version, which I think is great in its ironic twist on the song - sort of a light, happy-land take on Lewis' testosteronefest. I think it nicely rounds out what I've always seen as a brilliant parody of power-hungry/greedy/corporate-ish, well, ambition. (perhaps well-suited to the mid-80s culture especially) > BTW played "Chairs Missing" for the first time in ages the other night. I > still love it especially "French Film (Blurred)" and "Mercy" Colin Newman > sure can shout when he wants to......Eeeeeee them wer'days. I've always loved the flow of songs on side B of CHAIRS, especially the aggressive bits, beginning with Mercy (Colin's belting-out at its best), and ending with the trilogy of From the Nursery, Used To, and Too Late. Was always strongly affected by that last set: the edgy From the Nursery giving way to the sublimely reflective Used To (some of Wire's greatest lyrics) - and Too Late's "Is it too late for changin' my mind?" always seemed to coincide with some sketchy committment I'd just made... :) - -- _ _ _ Thom Heileson //)) //^~ heileson@u.washington.edu ((// // http://weber.u.washington.edu/~heileson University of Washington School of Art Center for Advanced Research Technology in the Arts and Humanities [CARTAH] 206.543.4218 - -- _ _ _ Thom Heileson //)) //^~ heileson@u.washington.edu ((// // http://weber.u.washington.edu/~heileson University of Washington School of Art Center for Advanced Research Technology in the Arts and Humanities [CARTAH] 206.543.4218 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:14:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "David C. Kwan" Subject: Robert's drumming reconsidered (was: German Shep) I also agree that the IBTABA version of German Shepherds is best, mostly for its best example of Robert's undervalued minimalist drumming style in 80's Wire. Perhaps he's playing the drum part in both Coatings and SSP versions, but his drumming is more prominent in the mix in the IBTABA version. The push-pull dynamic of his high-hat work is simple, yet it propels the song through an otherwise plain 4/4 beat with 1/8th note strumming. This is probably part of the physicality of drumming that he held onto so steadfast going into 90's Wire and which lead to his quitting. (Admittedly I've always been a fan of drummers/percussionists who are more high-hat and unique timbral players than the usual skin-bashers. That's probably my only complaint about drum machines, but fortunately programming rhythms has come a long way since the early days of drum machines.) When I first saw 80's Wire in concert, I was struck by how little Robert had on stage (snare, kick and high hat only), how little he had to do of course, but also how important it was to the overall sound. I can't imagine how both 80's and 90's Wire would have sound like with a drumming style that usually comes with a full drum kit, complete with tom-tom rolls, ride and crash cymbals, and, um, cowbell(?). Robert may have relegated his own role to mere time keeper or drum machine emulator, but I'd also like to believe that his motivation to strip down the kit and subsequent contributions were timbral, spatial (less busy), and therefore not completely tied down to conventional drumming. However, I would still agree with Bruce's comment that Robert could have ventured from his drum kit a bit further. I felt late 80's and 90's Wir(e) had a lot of potential and they were nowhere near peaking. Has Robert ever said anything about his approach to drumming in post-70's Wire? And let's hear it for Robert for once. ~David ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V1 #117 *******************************