From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V1 #115 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, August 30 1998 Volume 01 : Number 115 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: the first letter/number [] Re: the first letter/number [Miles Goosens ] Re: the first letter/number [] Re: the first letter/number ["Steve Jackson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Aug 98 12:32:35 -0400 From: Subject: Re: the first letter/number >It's very difficult for me to think of THE IDEAL COPY or A BELL IS A CUP as >weak in any way, shape, or form. There's not a song on the latter that >hasn't spent weeks simmering in my brain I think my main problem with these albums is that the same effects are used over and over on the guitars..that shimmery, sometimes chorused clean sound that typifies late 80's music and instantly dates it. Also, the production on IDEAL COPY and A BELL.. are somewhat lacking in dynamics and depth. I look for production that sounds and even "feels" 3-dimensional (sort of where the music exists in a spatial field), and it's certainly not here! As for A BELL....well, I personally feel that a few of the songs run together structurally and sonically and are amazingly dull (Free Falling Divisions, Come Back in Two Halves, Follow the Locust are all snoozers in my book). This is the first album I ever heard by them, and I always felt it would make a strong EP. I'd rather have 15 minutes of brilliance than 45 minutes of sketchiness. All the opinions expressed are those of Eric solely and do not reflect the general consenus. Thank you for listening. Eric auteur@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 13:26:37 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: the first letter/number First me, then Eric le auteur... >>It's very difficult for me to think of THE IDEAL COPY or A BELL IS A CUP as >>weak in any way, shape, or form. There's not a song on the latter that >>hasn't spent weeks simmering in my brain > >I think my main problem with these albums is that the same effects are >used over and over on the guitars..that shimmery, sometimes chorused >clean sound that typifies late 80's music and instantly dates it. Also, >the production on IDEAL COPY and A BELL.. are somewhat lacking in >dynamics and depth. I look for production that sounds and even "feels" >3-dimensional (sort of where the music exists in a spatial field), and >it's certainly not here! Wow! This is one of those cases where I have to wonder "are your copies of these albums different than mine?" I couldn't disagree more -- any time I think about the giant deep tones that begin "Ahead," the jagged attack of "Feed Me," the incredible shredder solo that concludes "It's a Boy," and the slow-burn maelstrom of "The Boiling Boy"... well, all of these things sound incredibly dynamic, deep, and remarkably spatial. This reminds me of the MUSICIAN review of R.E.M.'s DOCUMENT, which began with (I'm paraphrasing) "Well, it's another pretty R.E.M. album." Like it or hate it, DOCUMENT was feedback-drenched and hard-hitting (Stipe: "even the soft songs are loud"). Did the reviewer get shipped an acoustic-only promo? ;-) >As for A BELL....well, I personally feel that a few of the songs run >together structurally and sonically and are amazingly dull (Free Falling >Divisions, Come Back in Two Halves, Follow the Locust are all snoozers in >my book). Eeep! While I'd say the latter two songs you name are among the second-tier songs on the album, they're each quite good in their own way (right now in my head I can hear phrases like "I can't wait to see the doctor" and "the Illinois Toolworks," when I can't remember phrases from other songs I like even five minutes after listening to them!), and if I ever get my act together and do a webzine, it's going to be called "Pale in Belief" after the "Free-Falling Divisions" lyric. Much of the album is of a kind, as you suggest, but like my favorite Velvet Underground material, behind the drones is music of incredible depth and variety that rewards repeat listens. Every time I listen to the 1969 LIVE version of "What Goes On," I hear something different, and it's the same way with A BELL IS A CUP. I realize that a lot of A BELL IS A CUP's lyrics are non-sequiturs, but is anyone else incredibly affected by the chorus of "Free-Falling Divisions"? Every time I hear Drag my canal You saucy old salt Pale in belief I'm not without fault it inexplicably grips me. Perhaps it's me reading meaning into the chorus because of my own struggles with spirituality, but the words and Colin's intonation of them always goes straight to the core of my being. enjoying the conversation, Miles ====================================================================== "If a million people say a stupid thing, it is still a stupid thing." -- Anatole France Miles Goosens outdoorminer@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles ====================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 98 15:47:12 -0400 From: Subject: Re: the first letter/number > Much of the album is of >a kind, as you suggest, but like my favorite Velvet Underground material, >behind the drones is music of incredible depth and variety that rewards >repeat listens. Every time I listen to the 1969 LIVE version of "What Goes >On," I hear something different, and it's the same way with A BELL IS A CUP. Yeah! I love that version in its 8+ minutes of splendour! I don't necessarily have a problem with IDEAL, but when I hear ABIACUIIS, I feel it's rather tame compared to the diverse and experimental work that had preceded it. I know Colin in particular wanted a "softer" sound for this album, but to me this "soft" translated as somewhat...um...bland. I think a lot of this stems from the technology available (a huge portion of mid to late 80's stuff has horrible mastering and mixing to my ears). Don't get me wrong: I love almost everything they have done, collectively and solo, but there are some pieces that leave me a little cold. Now the live performances from this era are another story altogether: they have a rawness and vitality that I feel is missing from the studio work. I think I prefer stuff that could damage your ears! :) Eric auteur@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:36:27 +0100 From: "Steve Jackson" Subject: Re: the first letter/number "What Goes On," reminds me of my time at University. Me and my mates were always pretending to be cool,and as a consequence "White Light/White Heat" was always a favourite. Eric said... >I don't necessarily have a problem with IDEAL, but when I hear ABIACUIIS, >I feel it's rather tame compared to the diverse and experimental work >that had preceded it. I know Colin in particular wanted a "softer" sound >for this album, but to me this "soft" translated as >somewhat...um...bland. I think a lot of this stems from the technology >available (a huge portion of mid to late 80's stuff has horrible >mastering and mixing to my ears). Hmmm. I think "Bell" is one of my favourites. It may well be one of their most listener-friendly albums and it's full of POP, like "Kidney Bingos." Sound is ok, with a couple of exceptions (Silk Skin Paws,....Um) which sound very 80's.Although I prefer the album version of "Silk..." to the single mix. Changing the subject..funny things mixes. Friends I know prefer the Colin version of "Ambitious", how????? The Lewis version is fantastic it it's preposterousness! (had to look that up in the dictionary.) I know it's not technically a "mix" but who would agree that the version of "German Shepherds" on IBTABA is better than the version on the SSP micro-CD? BTW played "Chairs Missing" for the first time in ages the other night. I still love it especially "French Film (Blurred)" and "Mercy" Colin Newman sure can shout when he wants to......Eeeeeee them wer'days. Eric went onto to say.. >Don't get me wrong: I love almost everything they have done, collectively >and solo, I don't love Dome. Cast me into the pit!!! Not pop enough for me. Wire have repetition, structure and melody (with a nice injection of abrasiveness). To my ears Dome have the same, but without the melody.( Having said that I like He-Said's lighter moments). This may be a little simplistic but I think Wire worked so well because of Lewis' lyrics in particular, Newman's fantastic ear for tone and melody, and a hard edge from Lewis and Gilbert (You could recognise Gilbert's guitar anywhere, it's so distinctive) Although I like some solo work (mainly CN's) I think the parts are not greater than the whole. Keep strumming those guitars..... Steve - -----Original Message----- From: auteur@ix.netcom.com To: idealcopy@smoe.org Date: 29 August 1998 20:46 Subject: Re: the first letter/number >> Much of the album is of >>a kind, as you suggest, but like my favorite Velvet Underground material, >>behind the drones is music of incredible depth and variety that rewards >>repeat listens. Every time I listen to the 1969 LIVE version of I hear something different, and it's the same way with A BELL IS A CUP. > >Yeah! I love that version in its 8+ minutes of splendour! > > but there are some pieces that leave me a little cold. Now the >live performances from this era are another story altogether: they have a >rawness and vitality that I feel is missing from the studio work. I think >I prefer stuff that could damage your ears! :) > > >Eric >auteur@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V1 #115 *******************************