From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V1 #95 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, July 30 1998 Volume 01 : Number 095 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Brazil and other matters.187 beats that ["Steve Jackson" ] Re: Wire vs. Sexuality ["charles / wmo" ] Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #94 ["charles / wmo" ] Re: Wire vs. Sexuality [CliveNice@aol.com] Re: Wire vs. Sexuality [#rciscon ] Re: Wire vs. Sexuality [Aaron Mandel ] Re: Wire vs. Sexuality ["Mack" ] Re: Wire vs. Sexuality ["Steve Jackson" ] U2 ["IBRAHIM BOZAI" ] Re: Wire vs. Sexuality [] Re: Brazil and other matters.187 beats that [Andrew N Westmeyer ] related bands [Miles Goosens ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:10:42 +0100 From: "Steve Jackson" Subject: Re: Brazil and other matters.187 beats that OK, I've taken the trouble to look .Graham says in Eden's book (pg 27) that it was because the number of beats was to be 100, but turned out to be a 106, but Andrew reckons it's a 161 beats and another member of this list said 101 (Graham also said the song had sexual connotations, so confirming my problem....) Anyway, I'm a drummer ( which doesn't qualify me by any means) and ,pitifully, I'm now going downstairs to count the beats in this song...OK I'm back, I know I should get out more but I now know the answer..both writers said the word "sex" came on the first beat of the bar..it actually comes on the third beat of the final bar. There are 46 bars of 4 and 1 bar of three which means the song definitely has 187 beats. I wonder what would happen if you took out the guitar solo, but even I'm not sad enough to try. - -----Original Message----- From: Andrew N Westmeyer To: idealcopy@smoe.org Date: 28 July 1998 23:48 Subject: Re: Brazil and other matters >Wire and numerology... > >Excerpts from mail: 28-Jul-98 Re: Brazil and other matters by "Steve >Jackson"@zen.co.u >> Do you mean you've actually counted? As the song is in four time, and it >> ends on the bar, doesn't that mean that the number of beats must be >> divisible by 4 (although Maths and Music Theory aren't my stong points) > >The song starts on beat one and ends on beat one, which means there will >be an *odd* number of beats in the song (viz, 4N + 1, where N is the >number of measures). > >I obviously have no life because I counted the beats. Actually, I don't >have the CD with me, so I had to hum the song in my head. I broke the >song into its individual measures (40 of them, by my count). So that >means the song has 161 beats. If we ignore the final beat (Colin >screaming "sex"), then we could say that the song has 160 beats and >should be called "160 Beats That". I don't have Eden's book with me >either, but I seem to remember some story about train stations. > >Anyhow, here is my breakdown (remember this was done entirely from memory!): > >If you had a room, he'd >paint it white, sur- >vives the day, pre- >fers the night, >. . build >sight. . . . >. . . . >. Got a head for >figures, . . . >. no time for >bickers, . . . >. (or so he says,) >. . . . >prefers the company of a >woman. . . . >Finds it more physical, >(that's an important word,) >always seen first >then heard, >. . such a >rare bird. . . >. . . . >[bass solo] . . . . *10 >[guitar] . . . . *4 >With praise he glows, with change he grows, >finds that important, >hates waiting, it's not stimulating, likes celebrating, >I can't understand why that is so funny, that is >sex. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:59:31 -0700 From: "charles / wmo" Subject: Re: Bill Nelson >Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:33:43 EDT >From: Lizard4663@aol.com >Subject: Off topic-Bill Nelson >If anyone is into him, he's playing somewhere in the UK August 2. Details, email me. Here's one for the list. I have a box set of his and the Beauty and the Beast lp - instumental stuff that's dense without being pompous. I always thought Be-bop Delux as a sort of Beatles influenced band. He's as prolific as Peter Hammill, another Iconic figure, but like Hammill I have the feeling that if both of them didn't release 57 albums a year - but rather 1 great one every other - they'd be better off... charles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:22:32 -0700 From: "charles / wmo" Subject: Re: Wire vs. Sexuality There's been some talk about Wire, sex and Girlfirends lately so at the risk of being very un-pc, I'd like to throw this out to the list - I'd say that Wire has a primarily heterosexual fan base. The press often aludes to the fact that Wire were a "lad's band", which although I do have some very good gay friends that are Wire fans, I've found for the most part to be very un-true. (Apologies in advance if offends) charles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:12:17 -0700 From: "charles / wmo" Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #94 >Even my wife Tonya, who's not the biggest Wire fan (in fact, if we're in >the car, she makes me skip ANY version of 'Drill'--- which she claims is >as annoying for her as a dentists drill), likes the end of 'Kidney >Bingos', but not the lyrics..... "They don't make any sense", she says. >This does not surprise me, because my wife, who I love for many other >reasons besides her taste in music, complained to me soon after we moved >in together that we always listened to my music and not hers. I quickly >asked her how many CD's she thinks I own. She guessed, rather accurately, >about 400-500. I asked her how many CD's she owned before we moved in >together. She said 4, three of which were Madonna CD's I also pointed >out. This pretty much defused that argument. This sounds like the same story I had with my girlfirend of the mid to late eighties. She could tolerate 80's Wire but "Drill" was right out! In fact if I wanted to get her going, I'd just hum a bar or two of "drill drill drill" and it stick in her head for hours! Of course my fiance now is a big music fan which makes spending 2 hours in a record shop very possible indeed! charles - -------------------------------------------- wmo@interserv.com http://wiremailorder.com/ catalog@wiremailorder.com updated: June 29, 1998 - -------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:06:13 EDT From: CliveNice@aol.com Subject: Re: Wire vs. Sexuality Mr. Heterosexual replies! I've had many people assume I'm gay....partially because of my taste in music (and it doesn't help that i'm white and lanky). I've been told by many "experts" that (late) Wire and other Euro-pop bands are all gay, and therefore, it should be assumed that I am as well. I live in the land where real men play "real football" and drink lots of beer (U.S.) so perhaps that has something to do with it? Robert - Not Gay (not that there's anything wrong with being gay, i'm just not). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 98 12:24:02 -0500 From: #rciscon Subject: Re: Wire vs. Sexuality >There's been some talk about Wire, sex and Girlfirends lately so at the risk >of being very un-pc, I'd like to throw this out to the list - I'd say that >Wire has a primarily heterosexual fan base. The press often aludes to the >fact that Wire were a "lad's band", which although I do have some very good >gay friends that are Wire fans, I've found for the most part to be very >un-true. > >(Apologies in advance if offends) > >charles > > > If you mean by 'lad's band', that Wir/e have a large queer following, I was not aware of the press putting this forward. If you asked me what bands could be reffered to as 'lad's bands', I'd say: Pansy Division, Wolfgang Press, Kitchens of Distinction, Pet Shop Boys, Bronski Beat, etc. I would have never thought that Wir/e would be amongst them. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Perhaps the lack of overt love songs and/or ballads brought this on? Me? I'm 35 years old, and if I never hear another ballad or love song it'll be too soon! Ray Ciscon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:54:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Wire vs. Sexuality On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, charles / wmo wrote: > There's been some talk about Wire, sex and Girlfirends lately so at the risk > of being very un-pc, I'd like to throw this out to the list - I'd say that > Wire has a primarily heterosexual fan base. kind of odd, since if "12XU" isn't about T-rooms and "Practice Makes Perfect" isn't about anal sex, then i've been way off base all these years... a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:17:48 -0500 From: "Mack" Subject: Re: Wire vs. Sexuality A.B.C. Dicks Love ? homage to a paper company or what? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:08:02 +0100 From: "Steve Jackson" Subject: Re: Wire vs. Sexuality I suspect the author meant a band that was favoured by a male audience rather than female (in the way trainspotting and fishing are predominantly male pastimes) I don't know, most of us are male, although I know there are women on this newsgroup. >If you mean by 'lad's band', that Wir/e have a large queer following, I >was not aware of the press putting this forward. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:36:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "IBRAHIM BOZAI" Subject: U2 > > > Eno certainly had the midas touch - in the 70s (Roxy, Bowie, Talking > > > Heads in particular). But look at the garbage he's tried to salvage > > > since then (U2). > > > > As I said with Cale, a producer can only do so much with weak material. > > In addition to having made Eno rich, U2 are good friends, which I suspect > > is why he hasn't dropped them. > > Or could it be that he also *likes* their music, even though lotsa folks > on this list don't? > > I haven't heard _Pop_ (sorry Miles!), and while there are certainly > weaknesses in both _Achtung Baby_ and _Zooropa_, I think the idea of > reinventing the band (after the nearly unmitigated fiasco of _Crash and > Burn_...uh, whatever it's called) was not only brave but the direction > they took, however derivative, was appropriate and potentially very > productive. And I suspect Eno and his restlessness had something to do > with that. > > Sorry to be cranky - but putting down U2 is just *too* easy and obvious, > and I would hope Wire fans, of all people, wouldn't resort to the E&O. When I was 18, I thought Wire and U2 were fairly similar. Both groups seemed to teach me that constant reinvention was the norm and that anything else would be boring. I thought my other faves at the time like R.E.M. and Morrissey were less interesting because of that. Both U2 and Wire took chances. Sure they both embarrassed themselves (U2 more than Wire) but the basic attitude is what I was raised with. Maybe U2's music isn't all that hot but their basic attitude compared to other corporate rock entities is at least just slightly better for any 14 year olds that might be watching. No? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 98 18:05:44 -0400 From: Subject: Re: Wire vs. Sexuality >The press often aludes to the >fact that Wire were a "lad's band", which although I do have some very good >gay friends that are Wire fans, I've found for the most part to be very >un-true. Umm...I was under the impression that the British press referred to "lad" meaning a tough guy or hooligan; for example the recent "laddish" attitude demonstrated by the likes of Oasis, etc. Perhaps I have misconstrued the actual meaning? Eric auteur@ix.netcom.om ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:34:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: Re: Brazil and other matters.187 beats that Regarding "187 Beats That"... It turns out that the number of *syllables* in the lyrics equals 106. Each syllable does not equal one beat, so the title is a bit of a misnomer. But it works! (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "What a blessing that so much of humanity is able to be alive at the same time as myself." -Cecil Adams ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:23:33 -0500 (EST) From: Amanda Subject: Wire and women, significant others and music At the risk of repeating myself: When I met my husband, it was on irc, and I was using a gender-neutral screen name. We talked for two weeks before he asked my name and was surprised to find I was female -- he never knew of any women who liked Wire, and "didn't think it was possible." Then again, I don't know any other women who like Wire, or most of the music I listen to. As for dealing with significant others with differing musical taste, my husband and I have an agreement -- if we can't immediately find something we both want to listen to, one of us selects a cd from the other's collection. While our collections overlap, they're not identical, so it makes for some interesting choices. Amanda - -- aschi@bronze.lcs.mit.edu aki@retina.net :=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=: The avant-garde always ends up at WalMart sooner or later. -- A. Codrescu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:23:11 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Pro-Seed Back from vacations, business trips, and chasing the Loud Family on their current tour for two weekends. Robert Cambra sent two posts that bounced - -- send replies to rtc@sirius.com, please... ==================================== To: idealcopy@smoe.org From: rtc@sirius.com (Robert Cambra) Subject: Pro-Seed Can anyone tell me how I can find a copy of Pro-Seed's "Acoustic Agenda" album in the US? It features Graham Lewis doing the Claude Bessy part on a cover of Wir's "Naked, Whooping and Such-Like." Gotta Hear it! (One of the few things Wire I've never found is the Michael O'Shea album. I've always imagined it would sound something like Bessy's Joyce-like bit on this song. Am I right? Guess I'll find out in a few months.) Charles at WMO directed me to Pelle Anderson at the Recordings Under Construction label in Sweden, who responded that he would have a US ordering address soon. But that was some time ago and he has been unavailable since then. Any leads would be appreciated. Also, information on a source for the Vaporspace Remix album (3 lps), which includes a Swim~ remix, would be equally appreciated, too. Many thanks, Robert Cambra P.S. Agreed! Graham Lewis on the '86 US tour was one of the most dynamic, strong presences ever seen on stage. I saw Wire both nights they performed at the I-Beam in San Francisco and, yes, he was clearly one of "coolest blokes" on the planet. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:23:19 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: related bands Here's the other bounced post from Robert Cambra (rtc@sirius.com)... replies to him. ========================== To: idealcopy@smoe.org From: rtc@sirius.com (Robert Cambra) Subject: related bands On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, B. Coates wrote: > I'd be curious to hear other listmembers' opinions of bands that would be > equated with Wire. Not necessarily _sound_ like them, but maybe that, > added with, say, bands that would be appropriate opening for Wire. Or Wire > opening for. I still have my Wire and Wire-related LPs shelved with the DAF, Non and Blurt records because for me they were always related. After reading this newsletter for about a month and catching up on all the digests--which didn't take too long since this list goes back only to last February--I've come accross many familiar names. It's great to see old favorites like Ted Milton and DAF pop up. It is also very nice to see two familiar people here already; Charles Snider of WMO, who's been helping me with all things Wire for the last three years, and Michael Flaherty, who posts regularly on the only other newsletter I read, the Robert Fripp/King Crimson newsletter. I didn't really expect these two bands to share much of the same audience so It's been a little strange to me how many of the same issues come up in both lists, i.e., CDs vs vinyl, improvisation vs structured pop songs, the old band vs the new band, the Yes reunion, and audience expectation. But perhaps this is true for all the band newsletters. But what I think is really weird is that right now there is discussion on both lists on the arcane subject of in-dash car record players! Robert Cambra ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V1 #95 ******************************