From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V1 #93 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, July 28 1998 Volume 01 : Number 093 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: eno & wire -Reply [Stephen Harper ] Re: Hi ["Steve Jackson" ] Re: Hi / Lorries lyrics [] Re: Hi / Lorries lyrics [Andrew N Westmeyer ] Re: eno & wire -Reply [flaherty michael w ] RE: eno & wire -Reply [Chris Walker ] RE: eno & wire -Reply [flaherty michael w ] FW: Hi / Lorries lyrics ["Wilson, Chad" ] RE: eno & wire -Reply [Aaron Mandel ] Re: Hi / Lorries lyrics ["Steve Jackson" ] Re: Hi / Lorries lyrics ["Steve Jackson" ] RE: Hi / Lorries lyrics ["Wilson, Chad" ] RE: eno & wire -Reply [] Re: eno & wire -Reply [Lizard4663@aol.com] Re: eno & wire -Reply [Andrew N Westmeyer ] Re: eno & wire -Reply, and blubbing to Wire ["Steve Jackson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 03:40:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Harper Subject: Re: eno & wire -Reply - ---Trevor Dutton wrote: > Thanks to those of you who have already commented on the links between Wire circa 154 and Eno. I am intrigued about what might have been if this had happened - so many of my favourite bands seemed to reach their zenith when collaborating with Eno (although the relationship seems to become awkward after a couple of releases - perhaps his influence is too overwhelming after a while). > > Having said that I consider 154 to be Wire's best anyway and would be tempted to join the lavish praise of some suggesting that it is one of the all time greats. Could it have been even better with Eno at the helm? Did he in fact have a covert influence? Eno certainly had the midas touch - in the 70s (Roxy, Bowie, Talking Heads in particular). But look at the garbage he's tried to salvage since then (U2). Although Eno's solo records from the 70s are my all-time faves, I don't care for much after '78, so I for one don't regret Eno's absence from 154. Anyway, I don't know if Graham and Bruce, in particular, could have co-existed easily with the brilliant control-freak. Go ahead, flame this young dinosaur! == If a great man could make us understand him, we should hang him - George Bernard Shaw _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:16:01 +0100 From: "Steve Jackson" Subject: Re: Hi Well write something, Liz. I've run out of ideas and I have no opinions on the present Eno debate. Does anyone know where you can get the odd lyric? I'm after a transcript of the words to "Lorries". Anyway Ms/Mr Lizard, what kind of reptile are you.?My favourite reptile is the allosaurus but sadly there are no more..the last one was shot in Wormhill, Derbyshire, England. (or was that the wolf?) Or are you a small black reptile? Sorry to mar your sensible discussions with the above gubbins. Just hit that delete button.... - -----Original Message----- From: Lizard4663@aol.com To: idealcopy@smoe.org Date: 27 July 1998 00:01 Subject: Hi >Hi, I am a Wire freak! Glad to be here, Liz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 98 08:00:41 -0400 From: Subject: Re: Hi / Lorries lyrics >Does anyone know where you can get the odd lyric? >I'm after a transcript of the words to "Lorries" Go to: www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty/wire/index.html. Your one-stop information spot. Thank Andrew. Eric auteur@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:20:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: Re: Hi / Lorries lyrics Excerpts from mail: 27-Jul-98 Re: Hi / Lorries lyrics by auteur@ix.netcom.com > >Does anyone know where you can get the odd lyric? > >I'm after a transcript of the words to "Lorries" > > Go to: www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty/wire/index.html. Your one-stop > information spot. Thank Andrew. One-stop information spot, I like that! But in order to put thanks where it's due, Craig Grannell was the one who figured out the lyrics to "Lorries" (as well as a host of other songs). The chorus is still a bit uncertain though. Without further ado: Colin Newman, "Lorries", _Not To_ Oh it's descriptive, lovely green or blue I look from Italy or Czechoslovakia Looking east, demand the fashion for Alaska or China Soixante nouveau [Sixties new] Lien diese?, bateaux [Sharp ties/connections, boats] La zone?, tres taux? [The slum belt, much tax] Venir ici a? Oslo (Moscow) [Come here to Oslo (Moscow)] Looking east, needing green or blue I found this place, I'm thinking of Europe Simple fashion, a submarine Europe, a submarine Europe (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "What a blessing that so much of humanity is able to be alive at the same time as myself." -Cecil Adams ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:41:42 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Re: eno & wire -Reply On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Stephen Harper wrote: > Eno certainly had the midas touch - in the 70s (Roxy, Bowie, Talking > Heads in particular). But look at the garbage he's tried to salvage > since then (U2). As I said with Cale, a producer can only do so much with weak material. In addition to having made Eno rich, U2 are good friends, which I suspect is why he hasn't dropped them. Although Eno's solo records from the 70s are my > all-time faves, I don't care for much after '78, so I for one don't > regret Eno's absence from 154. As 154 is from '79 this doesn't make a great deal of sense to me, but I don't miss Eno either. It's difficult to imagine this record being much better. Anyway, I don't know if Graham and > Bruce, in particular, could have co-existed easily with the brilliant > control-freak. Go ahead, flame this young dinosaur! Not now, perhaps, but at the time of 154 they were entering something very new to them, so looking for someone like Eno or Thorne made sense. Robert Fripp says that Eno is the best producer alive because he brings out the best in the artists. This description works for me. With the exception of Bowie's instrumentals, which were, after all, collaborations, Eno's productions do not sound that much like Eno records. Yes, there is a certain mood (if you don't want that mood then why hire him?), but it's still the groups work (admittedly as realised by Eno). Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:52:54 -0500 From: Chris Walker Subject: RE: eno & wire -Reply I would like to listen to some of Eno's early solo work, but since I know very little I don't know where to start. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thank you, C Walker ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:57:03 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: RE: eno & wire -Reply On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Chris Walker wrote: > > I would like to listen to some of Eno's early solo work, but since I > know very little I don't know where to start. Does anyone have any > suggestions? > > Thank you, > > C Walker I would say start at the beginning: Here Come the Warm Jets. If you want more, continue to Taking Tiger Mountain, Another Green World, and Before and After Science. My guess is most people either love, like, dislike, or hate all of them. This assumes that you want vocals. If you are interested in instrumentals, "Music For Airports" is a good bet. If that's too mellow for you, "The Essential Fripp and Eno" (all of "No Pussyfooting" and the short pieces from "Evening Star") might be a good choice. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:04:53 -0700 From: "Wilson, Chad" Subject: FW: Hi / Lorries lyrics > Wow, for some reason I never followed the links to the lyrics. Did you > do the "He Said" "Hail" Lyrics? I have a dispute with "Flagwearing", I > think it is "Pilots on board" as opposed to "Parts on hold", I > remember this from some other discussion somewhere, had something to > with a ships pilot coming onto the bridge or something. Hmmm... > > Chad - engage!!! > > -----Original Message----- > From: auteur@ix.netcom.com [SMTP:auteur@ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Monday, July 27, 1998 5:01 AM > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Hi / Lorries lyrics > > >Does anyone know where you can get the odd lyric? > >I'm after a transcript of the words to "Lorries" > > Go to: www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty/wire/index.html. Your > one-stop > information spot. Thank Andrew. > > > Eric > auteur@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:03:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: RE: eno & wire -Reply On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, flaherty michael w wrote: > I would say start at the beginning: Here Come the Warm Jets. If you want > more, continue to Taking Tiger Mountain, Another Green World, and Before > and After Science. My guess is most people either love, like, dislike, or > hate all of them. Another Green World has two of his best songs from that period ("Backwater" and "King's Lead Hat") while Tiger Mountain has the third ("Third Uncle" -- an eerie premonition of "Former Airline"). Warm Jets is the most consistent of his vocal albums, but not the place i would start. a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:28:29 +0100 From: "Steve Jackson" Subject: Re: Hi / Lorries lyrics Thank you so much! You've helped me a lot, especially the chorus, but there's a couple of lines I'm not sure about.My amendments/suggestions in CAPITALS below.... - -----Original Message----- From: Andrew N Westmeyer To: idealcopy@smoe.org Date: 27 July 1998 16:23 Subject: Re: Hi / Lorries lyrics >Without further ado: > >Colin Newman, "Lorries", _Not To_ > >Oh it's descriptive, LORRY green or blue >I look from Italy or Czechoslovakia >Looking east, demand the fashion for Alaska or China > >Soixante nouveau [Sixties new] >Lien diese?, bateaux [Sharp ties/connections, boats] >WARSAW, tres taux? [The slum belt, much tax] >VENEZIA (VENICE) Oslo (Moscow) [Come here to Oslo (Moscow)] > >Looking east, needing green or blue >I found this place, I'm thinking of Europe >Simple fashion, a submarine Europe, a submarine Europe > >(A)ndrew Westmeyer >qwerty@cmu.edu >www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty > >"What a blessing that so much of humanity is able to >be alive at the same time as myself." -Cecil Adams ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:33:18 +0100 From: "Steve Jackson" Subject: Re: Hi / Lorries lyrics I've got the lyric to this...it's definately "pilots on board" - -----Original Message----- From: Wilson, Chad To: 'idealcopy@smoe.org' Date: 27 July 1998 17:06 Subject: FW: Hi / Lorries lyrics > >> Wow, for some reason I never followed the links to the lyrics. Did you >> do the "He Said" "Hail" Lyrics? I have a dispute with "Flagwearing", I >> think it is "Pilots on board" as opposed to "Parts on hold" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:34:11 -0700 From: "Wilson, Chad" Subject: RE: Hi / Lorries lyrics I tend to agree with the Warsaw and Venezia changes, those were the only two words I thought I actually new before reading the lyrics on the Wire page. I think that Lien Diese may be another misinterpreted city name (Lisbon?) although I am far from sure. Somebody send Colin an E-mail! hehe... Chad > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Jackson [SMTP:smj@zen.co.uk] > Sent: Monday, July 27, 1998 11:28 AM > To: Andrew N Westmeyer; idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Hi / Lorries lyrics > > Thank you so much! You've helped me a lot, especially the chorus, but > there's a couple of lines I'm not sure about.My amendments/suggestions > in > CAPITALS below.... > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew N Westmeyer > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Date: 27 July 1998 16:23 > Subject: Re: Hi / Lorries lyrics > > >Without further ado: > > > >Colin Newman, "Lorries", _Not To_ > > > >Oh it's descriptive, LORRY green or blue > >I look from Italy or Czechoslovakia > >Looking east, demand the fashion for Alaska or China > > > >Soixante nouveau [Sixties new] > >Lien diese?, bateaux [Sharp ties/connections, boats] > >WARSAW, tres taux? [The slum belt, much tax] > >VENEZIA (VENICE) Oslo (Moscow) [Come here to Oslo (Moscow)] > > > >Looking east, needing green or blue > >I found this place, I'm thinking of Europe > >Simple fashion, a submarine Europe, a submarine Europe > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 98 16:45:56 -0400 From: Subject: RE: eno & wire -Reply >Another Green World has two of his best songs from that period >("Backwater" and "King's Lead Hat" Erm....these are actually on "Before and After Science", which is very good except for "Here He Comes", which to me sounds like the Bugaloos (anyone familiar with Sid and Marty Krofft?) By the way...does anyone have the four prints that came with the original pressing of this album? Eric auteur@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:27:53 EDT From: Lizard4663@aol.com Subject: Re: eno & wire -Reply I would recommend "Here Come the Warm Jets" but let's get back to Wire!!!! Was anybody else as disappointed with "Manscape" as I was? Liz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:45:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: Re: eno & wire -Reply Excerpts from mail: 27-Jul-98 Re: eno & wire -Reply by Lizard4663@aol.com > Was anybody else as disappointed with "Manscape" as I was? Yikes! We can forgive you since you're new to the list. But the discussion went something like this: person #1: Manscape sucks. person #2: Manscape rules. "Children of Groceries" rocks my world. person #3: Oh yeah, well The First Letter sucks. person #4: The First Letter is the most underrated thing since the second most underrated thing. I love that Cow song. person #5: What does MIDI stand for? And why does it take 2 albums to learn how to use it? la la la... (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "What a blessing that so much of humanity is able to be alive at the same time as myself." -Cecil Adams ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 23:58:43 +0100 From: "Steve Jackson" Subject: Re: eno & wire -Reply, and blubbing to Wire Yeah, and since then it's been Eno all the way. It's my fault too. Somebody was asking for Wire soundalikes and I mentioned the UK band "Warm Jets" and that was it....I'll succumb in that I know nothing of his work outside the He Said connection, Roxy Music and that pile of Pompwank (a new genre that I've just made up) namely U2's "(un) Forgetable (i wish there had been a ) Fire" By the way Andrew I'd already marked your site as a favourite (I'm IE4, no "bookmarking" here) but I never found the lyrics before. But thanks again. Now here's a really hard question for you all. Have any Wire (or related) songs made you cry? Bravely, I'll admit to shedding a few tears to "Do you mean that?" Now this question will demonstrate how emotive Wire can be, or it will get me sent to Coventry (Do those in the USA understand that expression) Are we tender souls or are we hard-faced, cynical, robot-loving automatons? Come on, Boys and Girls, share your intimate Wire moments - -----Original Message----- From: Andrew N Westmeyer To: idealcopy@smoe.org Date: 27 July 1998 22:48 Subject: Re: eno & wire -Reply >Excerpts from mail: 27-Jul-98 Re: eno & wire -Reply by Lizard4663@aol.com >> Was anybody else as disappointed with "Manscape" as I was? > >Yikes! We can forgive you since you're new to the list. But the >discussion went something like this: > >person #1: Manscape sucks. >person #2: Manscape rules. "Children of Groceries" rocks my world. >person #3: Oh yeah, well The First Letter sucks. >person #4: The First Letter is the most underrated thing since the >second most underrated thing. I love that Cow song. >person #5: What does MIDI stand for? And why does it take 2 albums to >learn how to use it? > >la la la... > >(A)ndrew Westmeyer >qwerty@cmu.edu >www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty > >"What a blessing that so much of humanity is able to >be alive at the same time as myself." -Cecil Adams ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 20:32:56 EDT From: Lizard4663@aol.com Subject: Re: eno & wire -Reply, and blubbing to Wire Wire has never made me cry. Curved Air Metamorphosis did though. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:00:41 EDT From: CliveNice@aol.com Subject: blubbing to blubber This has a lot to do with nothing that we've been discussing recently..but..the end of Kidney Bongoes is great (and i usually don't like Graham's voice...but he really excels there.....I also liked his singing a lot on the Piano Tuner song , from Document and Eyewitness) Blubb.. Robert. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 23:02:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: eno & wire -Reply On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, flaherty michael w wrote: > On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Stephen Harper wrote: > > > Eno certainly had the midas touch - in the 70s (Roxy, Bowie, Talking > > Heads in particular). But look at the garbage he's tried to salvage > > since then (U2). > > As I said with Cale, a producer can only do so much with weak material. > In addition to having made Eno rich, U2 are good friends, which I suspect > is why he hasn't dropped them. Or could it be that he also *likes* their music, even though lotsa folks on this list don't? I haven't heard _Pop_ (sorry Miles!), and while there are certainly weaknesses in both _Achtung Baby_ and _Zooropa_, I think the idea of reinventing the band (after the nearly unmitigated fiasco of _Crash and Burn_...uh, whatever it's called) was not only brave but the direction they took, however derivative, was appropriate and potentially very productive. And I suspect Eno and his restlessness had something to do with that. Sorry to be cranky - but putting down U2 is just *too* easy and obvious, and I would hope Wire fans, of all people, wouldn't resort to the E&O. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n Department of English http://www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee ::crumple zones:::::harmful or fatal if swallowed:::::small-craft warning:: ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V1 #93 ******************************