From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V1 #89 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, July 24 1998 Volume 01 : Number 089 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Eno & Wire ["charles / wmo" ] Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #88 [CaptApe@aol.com] _In Esse_ i shud chek my male more offen ["IBRAHIM BOZAI" Subject: Re: Eno & Wire Well Hail's videos were done for Opal, which is run by Brian Eno's wife... I think the 154 story was that Wire wanted Eno to produce it. KS Eden, Wire's biographer, did his thesis on Brian Eno's music. I believe that Eno was living in Belgium at the same time Colin was... charles - -------------------------------------------- wmo@interserv.com http://wiremailorder.com/ catalog@wiremailorder.com updated: June 29, 1998 - -------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:10:58 EDT From: CaptApe@aol.com Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #88 > For example, I remember reading not too long ago in The Big Takeover > how Robert Pollard of Guided By Voices considers 154 to be just about > the greatest album ever made... > That's why I read the Big Takeover. I'm a big GbV fan, and am on the mailing list for them as well. I've recently offered to make Wire mixes for any folks ont he list that hadn't heard them. 2 responded, so I'm enlightening as much as I can. Also, does anyone know how I could acquire a copy of And Here It Is Again....? Was it ever released on cd? I had the vinyl until a few years back, when our house got flooded. I miss it, it was my introduction to them, back in '86 or so. I went out and bought that and The Ideal Copy the same day. What an introduction, eh? And, this is not Wire related: Anyone know how I might get my hands on the first Kitchens of Distinction 7" (name escapes me, it's from 1987, I think) or any of the 1st 3 Bolshoi cds? I was hoping, because it seems we have some folks on the list from the UK who might have better access to such things. Thanks, Tony ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:48:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "IBRAHIM BOZAI" Subject: _In Esse_ i shud chek my male more offen > > BRUCE GILBERT _In Esse_ (Mute) > > > > Packaged as the sequel to 1996's _Ab Ovo_, Bruce Gilbert's latest > > release gives listeners a mere ten minutes of music for the price of 55. > > So you were surprised at a Bruce Gilbert album without songs? > Well now, you must realize that I am a HUGE fan of all Wir(e) etc stuff. I am extremely well acquainted with all of Bruce's releases. Bruce has never put out a complete "songs" type album and so I wasn't expecting one. (Who would?!) > > Beginning with 45 minutes of noises that fail to evolve into anything even > > remotely musical, track 1 entitled "Soli" features harsh, random sounds that > > reside somewhat neatly in the hi-mid-low continuum but without any > > particularly musical effect. > > Define "musical". Does Stravinsky fit your definition? He struck many of > his contemporaries the same way Gilbert strikes you. I don't mean to > suggest that Gilbert is Stravinsky, but that the definition of music is > constantly being challenged. > Doing battle with my own sounds has forced me to think carefully about what it is that I actually like. I figured out that I do indeed like "Music." Music for me is quite simply about repetition. This repetition can also mask itself as stasis (as in the case of drone music). Music is repetition. There may very well be loops in the track but *together*, these loops do not result in music because I can't hear them interacting in any way that smacks of repetition (the thing that makes sounds turn into music). > Apart from annoying listeners, > > Speak for yourself, please. > (Can I Explain the Delay? -- I don't own a PC -- I don't check my mail that often in the summer -- Hi Charles! Hi Andrew!) > the only thing > > that this go-nowhere noisewank epic manages to do is prepare us for the > > wonderfully minimal tracks that follow. > > I don't object to people not liking solo Gilbert. What amazes me are > comments like this that seem to suggest that he is insincere. Insincere? I don't particularly care about supposed "sincerity" in music. There's no real way of knowing that. The only question that ever needs asking when it comes to a piece of music is: "Does it sound good?" That's it! DOES IT SOUND GOOD? It is > certainly true that Bruce is aiming at a small audience: an audience > that is willing to put away their concepts of music and listen to > controled and manipulated SOUND for in new, interesting, THOUGHT OUT > ways. > It doesn't have a particularly strong mood to it either. Occasionally, on lazy afternoons I'll put it on and lie down on the bed and daydream but it usually only lasts about 10 minutes before I start craving more traditional things like beats and scales. > The two tracks are both drones: one > organic, the other mechanical. > > But are the drones music? Can music be defined as what you personnally > enjoy? Actually I think you can define music according to your tastes. The sound of a person falling down the stairs with a drumkit may very well be music to your ears. All that matters is that you like it! What *I* think is completely irrelevant!!! Do you think that Gilbert actually has knowingly given us two > short "good" tracks and one long "bad" one. In other words, you're using > your tastes to define "music". > I think it's just a taste of the live show. The last two tracks make it worth looking into. If the disc just had the first track then people like me would simply regard it as a disc to be sampled and recycled for other music. (I haven't done that yet.) > The latter, "Bassi" sounds like the > > soundtrack to a toaster that takes just forever to pop up -- a clean, brittle > > sculpture that seems to end just nanoseconds before melting. "Muzi" is a > > wonderfully distilled guitar drone that, in another universe, could make > > frost form on any discman. > > Very intereseting descriptions. Instrumental music is difficult to write > about (I've done a bit for Elephant Talk), and you've found a nice way of > doing so. > I worry about sounding too artsy in that geeky kinda way. > It's a shame that 81.19% of the disc contains > > self-indulgent noise that any of us can do in an afternoon. Perhaps _In > > Esse_ would be worth buying if the last two tracks were turned into a CD > > single and priced accordingly. > > No one likes to spend 15-20 dollars on something that he or she does not > enjoy, so I guess I can understand your anger. But, frankly, none of us > could do this in an afternoon. Well maybe you couldn't arrive at the exact same sounds but you could certainly arrive at the same mood. That's easy. Try it! The fact is, the last two tracks were > probably easier to write than the first--as are most pop songs. I don't find "good" music all that easy. But maybe I'm too picky. As I said > the last time I defended In Esse on this list, any one can make noise, but > to do so for close to 20 years and to create a body of work that does not > constantly repeat itself is an amazing accomplishment. Sure. If you judge In Esse as a chapter in the book of Bruce then it is worth looking into. That means it's great for trainspotters (like myself unfortunately) but not for anyone else. There were people > in the 70s who loved Pink Flag but didn't like 154. There were Wire fans > in the early 80s who didn't think much of Dome. Those things have lasted, > and so, I believe, will In Esse. > The Dome stuff taught me that I could indeed stop fantasizing and start doing my own thing. What I learned from that stuff (not being all that familiar with avant stuff at the time) was that if you took a sound, any sound, and repeated it, then it would be "myuzik." I've done lots of experiments and the ones that I can actually listen to more than 4 times a year are the ones that sound musical i.e. they contain repetition. Music is repetition. And conversely, with the way I talk, it could also be said that repetition is music. That's just my view. Ibrahim ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V1 #89 ******************************