From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V1 #76 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, July 11 1998 Volume 01 : Number 076 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Analog/Digital [#rciscon ] wirst Wore [Andrew N Westmeyer ] Re: wirst Wore [CliveNice@aol.com] Re: wirst Wore [Billy D ] RE: wirst Wore ["Wilson, Chad" ] Re: wirst Wore [Andrew N Westmeyer ] Re: wirst Wore [Aaron Mandel ] Re: wirst Wore [Thom Heileson ] OLIVE ["Steve Jackson" ] Re: wire live ["Steve Jackson" ] Re: wirst Wore [] Re: wirst Wore [] Re: OLIVE [] Re: wirst Wore [Snarlo ] Re: OLIVE/worst wirst wore wire [nobrand@bitburn.org (B. Coates)] re: worst ["Nobrand- endorsing nothing." ] worst wirst wore wire [] Flood's NODE [] Fw: wire live ["Alex Wise" ] Re: wire live [Billy D ] Re: OLIVE [Billy D ] Ambulance Chasers [Billy D ] Re: Fw: wire live [Billy D ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Jul 98 09:11:48 -0500 From: #rciscon Subject: Re: Analog/Digital >"Warmth" is a pretty emotianl thing -- describing it technically might >not really work. > >Last week on another mailing list I'm on (concerning CD-Rs), an audio >engineer posted a message that talked about how the complete >elimination of high-frequency noise in recordings makes the music >sound to most people like it lacks high-end "energy". Though an audio >analysis might indicate that the exact same frequencies are there in >both recordings (plus the noise in one), the two recordings are >perceived as different, with the one having noise preferred. This is >why, he said, that when recordings are mastered, not all the noise is >removed. > >This could explain why the noiseless CDs can sound worse than vinyl, >and also why "electronic music" sounds "cold". The "electronic music" >might be predominantly digitally recorded & mastered, whereas >non-electronic music might have more analog components in the >recording process, thus introducing more noise. Maybe me ears are bad, but I just don't hear this supposed 'warmth'. Most people I know who have used this argument used it because that had a large investment in vinyl LP's. BTW: Just to show how far we've come in this day and age, I was playing some music for a 16 year old neice of mine, when 'Planet of the Shapes' by Orbital from their second album came on. This track features vinyl record hissing, popping, and scratching noises that all of us old-timers know all about from our old LP's. She looked at me and said, 'What's up with that horrible noise?'. I had to explain to her about vinyl LP's, wear & tear on the records, etc., and how Orbital had put it in there as a nice 'nostalgic' rythmic effect. She just couldn't understand how people would listen to all of that 'noise'. I have to agree with her. Any other Orbital fans out there? I admire the Brothers Hartnoll for much the same reason I admire Wir/e.... a desire to experiment without losing pop sensibilites. Ray Ciscon 'Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day. Windows 98 is only slightly less useful." > > >Someone mentioned the relative resolutions of CDs vs. vinyl. What >exactly *is* the resolution of vinyl, as compared to CDs? My record >player can repoduce the same approximate frequency range as a CD >(maybe slightly more, according to the specs), but does the quality of >the vinyl allow frequencies to be recorded along that entire range? > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:12:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: wirst Wore Out of curiosity... What is the *worst* Wire song out there? Those guys have written so much stuff that there are definitely a few sour ones. IMO some candidates are: Mary is a dyke Eels sang lino (these two have a country shuffle feel to me) Manscape (the song - the extended version is even more painful) Any thoughts? (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "What a blessing that so much of humanity is able to be alive at the same time as myself." -Cecil Adams ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:36:14 EDT From: CliveNice@aol.com Subject: Re: wirst Wore What is the *worst* Wire song out there? Those guys have written so much stuff that there are definitely a few sour ones. First i've got to disagree...Eels sang lino is an okay song...(though not good) Here's my list: Manscape (yawn) A Mutual Friend (sounds like a nature video) Feed Me Bury em' before they flame up again (I'm in Florida) Robert. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:16:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Billy D Subject: Re: wirst Wore Yes, 'Feed Me' is pretty bad. Way too long. Somebody throw him a veggie burger... I have always liked 'Manscape' (single and album) so I stand by those. Hmmm,'Feed Me (live)' is even worse... I can't really say if there are any others. I DO have to be in the right frame of mind to listen most of the time, otherwise it's just like the radio that's on at work blaring out useless tunes that nobody cares about. Cheers, BillyD - ---CliveNice@aol.com wrote: > > What is the *worst* Wire song out there? Those guys have written so > much stuff that there are definitely a few sour ones. > > First i've got to disagree...Eels sang lino is an okay song...(though not > good) > > Here's my list: > > Manscape (yawn) > A Mutual Friend (sounds like a nature video) > Feed Me > > > Bury em' before they flame up again (I'm in Florida) > Robert. > > > > > > == 'Your plastic pal who's fun to be around!' _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:20:16 -0700 From: "Wilson, Chad" Subject: RE: wirst Wore Two of these never really made it out for general public consumption so thats not exactly fair! Mary is a Dyke and Eels sang lino are trainspotter songs man! Manscape, yeah I will go there, and that Children of Groceries song, eeks.. Feed me is a 100% skipper on the cd player as well. Funny enough There is very very little pre-reunion Wire that I dislike, but a lot of post 1988 Wire that I consider bad... Chad > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew N Westmeyer [SMTP:qwerty@CMU.EDU] > Sent: Friday, July 10, 1998 8:12 AM > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: wirst Wore > > Out of curiosity... > > What is the *worst* Wire song out there? Those guys have written so > much stuff that there are definitely a few sour ones. IMO some > candidates are: > > Mary is a dyke > Eels sang lino (these two have a country shuffle feel to me) > Manscape (the song - the extended version is even more painful) > > Any thoughts? > > (A)ndrew Westmeyer > qwerty@cmu.edu > www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty > > "What a blessing that so much of humanity is able to > be alive at the same time as myself." -Cecil Adams ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:53:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: Re: wirst Wore No one likes Feed Me? I used to love that song! Now it kind of drags, but most songs do after playing them a thousand times. That guitar sound is incredible. Same thing with the live version too. Actually, I used to find most of the Ideal Copy annoying until I heard some live recordings of it. In particular, I'm thinking about Cheeking Tongues, but the same hold for other songs on that album as well. (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "What a blessing that so much of humanity is able to be alive at the same time as myself." -Cecil Adams ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:13:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: wirst Wore On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Andrew N Westmeyer wrote: > No one likes Feed Me? I used to love that song! no kidding. i always thought of it as one of Wire's anthems, though i never saw them live nor have any reason to think they shared this view themselves. much more than "Drill"... i mean, anyone can keep a song going for 10 minutes with a thumping beat like that, but "Feed Me" stretches on without numbing the listener. a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:05:30 -0700 From: Thom Heileson Subject: Re: wirst Wore Andrew N Westmeyer wrote: > > No one likes Feed Me? I used to love that song! Now it kind of drags, > but most songs do after playing them a thousand times. That guitar > sound is incredible. Same thing with the live version too. Finally. someone who doesn't despise this song! I was getting worried - it's actually one of my top faves, still. Slow...? Um, yeah, but that's part of its beauty; this would be any example of Wire stepping further outside the pop song arena. I have to admit there is likely some nostalgic bias for me with this song (and the album)... I vividly remember bringing that home and being blown away by the sound of that effected guitar (at this time, it was my father's top-of-line stereo system) - as well as the mood of the track. I echo the sentiments re: Manscape the single - actually it's not completely terrible; I think it's the keyboardy chorus that destroys it. Somehow, I mind the extended version less - there's some weird mixing in there that's sort of intersting. - -- _ _ _ Thom Heileson //)) //^~ heileson@u.washington.edu ((// // http://weber.u.washington.edu/~heileson/index.html Center for Advanced Research Technology in the Arts and Humanities [CARTAH] 206.543.4218 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:27:50 +0100 From: "Steve Jackson" Subject: OLIVE I don't know if you in the States will know this one, but the Europeans will. Over a year ago a band called Olive ( who featured an ex-simply red member and a female singer with frizzy hair) released a single called "You're not alone." This would be totally unremarkable were not for the fact that much of the music (although not the vocals) sounds incredibly like "Pulling 3gs" by He Said. Has anyone else noticed this or am I talking complete arse? I might point out that Olive reached Number One in the UK with this song. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:17:39 +0100 From: "Steve Jackson" Subject: Re: wire live - -----Original Message----- From: Mack To: Ideal Copy Date: 08 July 1998 17:49 Subject: Re: wire live David, You've mentioned the fact that you have seen XTC again (although, admittedly, publicly this time) Are you trying to upset me? Incidentally, I'm a High School teacher and have been turning my students on to bands like XTC, Buzzcocks and Wire. I did one girl a compilation of PF/CM/154 and she's come back to ask for another.....it continues...... >>I haveyet to see a band where a member played like his life >>depended >on it. He was playing a headless bass (called The Rail I think ) >>and he had his >teeth clenched like he was about to explode! He looked >>absolutely amazing, and >at this point I thought he was the coolest bloke I >>had ever seen. >Andy Partridge of XTC (in their touring daze) was the most over-the-top >performer of my visage >After seeing what he went through onstage - I dont wonder that he does not >want to play out anymore >More the loss for us tho - the edge he had in those days was incredible to >see and here > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 98 19:23:34 -0400 From: Subject: Re: wirst Wore I believe my personal pick would be "It Can't Be True Can It?" It is so bad I practically break out in hives when I hear it! Lyrically and musically quite the nadir of their career. The only other piece I will absolutely NOT listen to is "Ambulance Chasers", which is merely boring. On a side note: every time I hear the phrase "Which way Michael?" from the song "Pieta", it sounds like KITT from Knight Rider speaking to Michael Knight!! I wish I could rid myself of this sad mental connection...has anyone else ever thought this, or am I plum loco? Grateful for the Weekend, Eric auteur@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 98 19:48:31 -0400 From: Subject: Re: wirst Wore >Eels sang lino I love this song, mainly for Graham's completely over the top gonzo vocals! Actually, come to think of it, my favorite bits from the Electric Ballroom are all of the extraneous vocal tidbits ("...who's a clever boy, then!"; Colin's "yayayayaya" in ZEGK HOQP; and of course "Here it is.. a little number called......") >Mary is a Dyke and Eels sang lino are >trainspotter songs man! I hope this is just being sarcastic; I think Andrew's allowed to be obscure, seeing as he runs the Wire page!!! :o >A Mutual Friend (sounds like a nature video) Huh? Why, because it has a cor anglais part? This song is an epic masterpiece along with "A Touching Display"! Totally prog and wonderful because of it! Whoooo!! OK, I better cut down on my caffeine at work! Cheers All! Eric auteur@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 98 19:50:30 -0400 From: Subject: Re: OLIVE >This would be totally unremarkable were not for the fact >that much of the music (although not the vocals) sounds incredibly like >"Pulling 3gs" by He Said. Has anyone else noticed this or am I talking >complete arse? I know what song you're talking about, so I'll give "3Gs" a listen later tonight and let you know if you should be put in a straight jacket or not! Eric auteur@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:00:00 -0700 From: Snarlo Subject: Re: wirst Wore the worst Wire songs to these ears: 1.Vivid Riot of Red live--simply unlistenable, the worst of their 'art' pieces 2.Life in the Manscape--pretty unanimous on this one it seems! 3.Goodbye Ploy--hate the lyrics (actually, most of "Manscape" has pretty weak surrealism-by-numbers lyrics) 4.Ambulance Chasers live--another 'art' piece 5.Outdoor Miner piano version (ONLY KIDDING!!!!!!)--I couldn't think of a fifth that really merits it. signed a "Feed Me" lover, Peter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:19:44 -0800 From: nobrand@bitburn.org (B. Coates) Subject: Re: OLIVE/worst wirst wore wire >I don't know if you in the States will know this one, but the Europeans >will. Over a year ago a band called Olive ( who featured an ex-simply red >member and a female singer with frizzy hair) released a single called >"You're not alone." This would be totally unremarkable were not for the fact >that much of the music (although not the vocals) sounds incredibly like >"Pulling 3gs" by He Said. Has anyone else noticed this or am I talking >complete arse? I might point out that Olive reached Number One in the UK >with this song. Rythmically, it is very very much the same. Bassline following kick, hyperdriven hihats, and those particular chosen notes, well... Yes, I would have to say very similar. *Luckily*.... I don't think that most people, while listening to 3gs, would think,'Hey, this sounds like Olive!' Yuck! When I first bought it a decade ago(!) I remember listening to it at 33rpm the first maybe, 6 times without realizing it's a 45rpm12". It SOUNDED like something you could expect from Graham :D Interesting thing about 3gs, it was mixed by Flood, before he became mister studio megaman to make PERFECT studio works for Depeche Mode, Erasure, U2, Smashing Pumpkins and many others. I'm not saying that the _music_ was perfect, but the sound and production on them are incredible. >Ideal Copy annoying until I heard >some live recordings of it. In particular, I'm thinking about Cheeking >Tongues, but the same hold for other songs on that album as well. AAAAHHHH! That was my _favorite!_(at the time)... There were a small gang of us that would crank it in my car, all screaming the "Dugg-duggaduggaduggadugga-duggduggaduggadugga" part at the top of our lungs, rewinding the tape several times on a trip to that track. That's my personal 'dark side of the moon' in that I don't ever _have_ to hear it again as it's so emblazoned in my memory I can hear it just sitting here thinking about it :D >The only other piece I will >absolutely NOT listen to is "Ambulance Chasers", which is merely boring. AAAAHHHH! That was nearly my second favorite! It brings an element of the Wolfgang Press, with a bit of the funky... Is there a studio version? I just have the live recording. As for 'Feed Me'. I agree, as much as I hate to. Yuck. I would get all worked up by the rest of the album, and slam... 2mph(or kph for my metric friends) That would probably have my vote. Brian I think I should write a song called 'my metric friends'. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:24:09 -0700 (PWT) From: "Nobrand- endorsing nothing." Subject: re: worst >(actually, most of "Manscape" has pretty >weak surrealism-by-numbers lyrics) I felt that way a bit about 'the first letter'. Like they had stopped making strange verbage by 'art' and just said,'hey these words don't fit, it's strange, it works...' the words sound a bit clumsy, although I still like the album a bit. Actually, all the bits I like on the first letter are the pop elements. For instance, 'it's just for now... it's just for now' sung by Graham on so and slow. Also the sung bits by Colin on 'footsi' and 'looking at me'. Those are the best parts to me. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- dreaming the seventh dream of teenage heaven... nobrand@bitburn.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 98 22:30:01 -0400 From: Subject: worst wirst wore wire Re: Ambulance Chasers >Is there a studio version? I >just have the live recording. Yeah, the studio version is the one I was referring to...it just kind of meanders into nothingness. The live one infuses much more vitality into it! Eric auteur@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 98 22:35:18 -0400 From: Subject: Flood's NODE >it was mixed by Flood, before he became mister >studio megaman to make PERFECT studio works for Depeche Mode, Erasure, U2, >Smashing Pumpkins and many others. On a related note....for those who admire Flood's production work and enjoy massive analogue-heavy electronic soundscapes (a la early Tangerine Dream)..check out Node's CDs which were released a couple years back on the Deviant label. It's Flood, Ed Buller (who's produced Suede and some others), and two other blokes performing music with vintage modular synthesizers! Good stuff! Eric auteur@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:47:26 +0100 From: "Alex Wise" Subject: Fw: wire live - ---------- > From: Steve Jackson > To: Andrew N Westmeyer ; idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: Re: wire live > Date: Thursday, 2 July 1998 19:38 > > I didn't see them around 154, but I did see them shortly before the release > of A Bell is a Cup. I was down the front and I remember that the set was > almost exclusively new songs which I hadn't heard (Kidney Bingos et al- my > mate got the set list, although for reasons beyond my grasp it was called > Kidney Lockups on the list) The only familiar songs at the time were Ahead, > Up to the Sun and Drill. > > I can distinctly remember Colin's guitar, which was sort of axe-shaped (I'm > a drummer, so don't get technical) and Robert, who had his eyes shut > throughout. > > Most of all I remember Graham Lewis, who was like a man possessed. I have > yet to see a band where a member played like his life depended on it. He was > playing a headless bass (called The Rail I think ) and he had his teeth > clenched like he was about to explode! He looked absolutely amazing, and at > this point I thought he was the coolest bloke I had ever seen. ( I was > barely 18) I got to meet them after, and that sealed it really. > > See yer.. Anybody remember much about Bruce's presence?Did he play a Steinberger guitar(also headless and bodyless)?On my copy of the Big Black video 'Pigpile' on Heartbeat, Bruce was playing a Steinberger guitar and wearing a cool green army-like jacket.(I'd wish I could get my hands on a jacket like that!)Graham was playing his little SK-l Casio sampler.I sold my SK-1 recently. - -Alex ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 00:38:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Billy D Subject: Re: wire live If you play your cards right next time she might ask you for sex... Cheers, BillyD a High School teacher and have been turning my students on to bands like > == 'Your plastic pal who's fun to be around!' _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 00:34:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Billy D Subject: Re: OLIVE I was listening to 'Extra Virgin' on the way to work yesterday... BillyD - ---Steve Jackson wrote: > > I don't know if you in the States will know this one, but the Europeans > will. Over a year ago a band called Olive ( who featured an ex-simply red > member and a female singer with frizzy hair) released a single called > "You're not alone." This would be totally unremarkable were not for the fact > that much of the music (although not the vocals) sounds incredibly like > "Pulling 3gs" by He Said. Has anyone else noticed this or am I talking > complete arse? I might point out that Olive reached Number One in the UK > with this song. > > Steve > > == 'Your plastic pal who's fun to be around!' _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 00:46:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Billy D Subject: Ambulance Chasers I don't like the studio version as well... == 'Your plastic pal who's fun to be around!' _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 01:07:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Billy D Subject: Re: Fw: wire live I still have my SK1 and VLT1. Can anyone help me find a Linn drum machine? Cheers, BillyD - ---Alex Wise wrote: > > > > ---------- > > From: Steve Jackson > > To: Andrew N Westmeyer ; idealcopy@smoe.org > > Subject: Re: wire live > > Date: Thursday, 2 July 1998 19:38 > > > > I didn't see them around 154, but I did see them shortly before the > release > > of A Bell is a Cup. I was down the front and I remember that the set was > > almost exclusively new songs which I hadn't heard (Kidney Bingos et al- > my > > mate got the set list, although for reasons beyond my grasp it was called > > Kidney Lockups on the list) The only familiar songs at the time were > Ahead, > > Up to the Sun and Drill. > > > > I can distinctly remember Colin's guitar, which was sort of axe-shaped > (I'm > > a drummer, so don't get technical) and Robert, who had his eyes shut > > throughout. > > > > Most of all I remember Graham Lewis, who was like a man possessed. I have > > yet to see a band where a member played like his life depended on it. He > was > > playing a headless bass (called The Rail I think ) and he had his teeth > > clenched like he was about to explode! He looked absolutely amazing, and > at > > this point I thought he was the coolest bloke I had ever seen. ( I was > > barely 18) I got to meet them after, and that sealed it really. > > > > See yer.. > > Anybody remember much about Bruce's presence?Did he play a Steinberger > guitar(also headless and bodyless)?On my copy of the Big Black video > 'Pigpile' on Heartbeat, Bruce was playing a Steinberger > guitar and wearing a cool green army-like jacket.(I'd wish I could get my > hands on a jacket like that!)Graham was playing his little SK-l Casio > sampler.I sold my SK-1 recently. > > > -Alex > == 'Your plastic pal who's fun to be around!' _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V1 #76 ******************************