From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V1 #75 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, July 9 1998 Volume 01 : Number 075 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #74 [wmo ny ] Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #74 [wmo ny ] Re: Comeback In new halves? [wmo ny ] Re: Thoughts? (fwd) [Billy D ] Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #74 [Yoshi matsumoto ] Deep Thoughts ["Mack" ] Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #74 [Billy D ] RE: Thoughts? (fwd) [Chris Walker ] RE: idealcopy-digest V1 #74 [Chris Walker ] Re: Thoughts? (fwd) ["Mack" ] RE: Thoughts? (fwd) [nobrand@bitburn.org (B. Coates)] Re: Comeback In new halves? [] Re: Deep Thoughts [flaherty michael w ] Re: Thoughts? [#rciscon ] Re: Analog/Digital [#rciscon ] Re: wire live [info@massproduktion.y.se (Massproduktion)] Wire on Video [ubaran@iclretail.icl.com] Re: wire live ["Mack" ] Re: Analog/Digital ["Lee S. Kilpatrick (Mr. Breeze)" ] Re: Analog/Digital ["Mack" ] Re: Thoughts? (fwd) ["Ian J. Harris" ] New Pablo's Eye [] Re: Thoughts? (fwd) [nobrand@bitburn.org (B. Coates)] Old Wire articles (was Re: Thoughts? (fwd)) ["Sister ZuZu" Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #74 > Charles, I'm missing a couple of points here. > > 1: I got bounced from the list temporarily and missed the beginning of the > conversation. So basically, is > all this totally speculative or is there any basis of fact in it? it's all based on conversations that I've had with Wir over the past year. > > 2: My impression is that Robert got rather (unfairly) marginalised towards > the end of Wire (hence Wir) and with me > not being aware of the in-group personal issues, why is the assumption that it would be Wire and not Wir? Bruce has stated that if Wir reform, he'd do it if Robert was involved. I think that they miss his "presence" more than his drumming! charles in ny ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 07:36:35 -0400 From: wmo ny Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #74 > > You know, this sort of thing absolutely puzzles me. I became a music > consumer only very shortly before CD's came out, so I do have a couple > albums. But why are people still so addicted to vinyl? Does anyone > have nostalgia for 8-tracks? (I shudder at the thought!) I had some > Swim records for about a year before I could even find a record player > to play them on! Oh Andrew - you're showing your age! :) IMHO I think there is a level of Nostalgia to vinyl. there's some thrill that I get from the vinyl format that a CD will never quite repeat. The album cover, inner sleeves, etc... It's a tactile thing. As a ten year old kid picking up a Yes lp for the first time... Plus Used lp's are a LOT cheaper than CD's! charles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 08:09:13 -0400 From: wmo ny Subject: Re: Comeback In new halves? > But where do people(the audiences) draw the line, and stop grouping these > people in with washed up old fogies who didn't grow up? For instance, I > went to see Flock of Seagulls, and Mising Persons a couple years ago. > Berlin Toured, too. Gary Numan is touring. Creatures are touring. If > John Cale didn't change her for the worse, then I don't know what did. > There are all these 'new wave comeback' tours, and it seems circuslike. You didn't have Old Rock Musicians in the sixties... because there weren't any Old Rock Musicians in the sixties! (I'm not talking about 'rock-n-roll' here). if you put a d-day at 1966, well, someone that was 20 then is just over 50 now. If they've been in Music their entire life, which most of the bands above (including Wire) have been - what else are they going to do? They either gave up and took a "real" job or they're still trying to eke a living from it. Most of the above were young and naive when they first got involved in the business - and probably got taken advantage of. If someone is going to throw some money their way because they love the band or think they can make something off it, why should they not take it? I doubt Gary Numan has much to show now for his success which was what, 25 years ago?? this also has something to say about the Current State of Music. I think it's more than some marketer saying "there's still an audience for Yes or whoever". It has to do with the *new* music being put out today. A case in point here is Alanis Morissette. I for one don't want to listen to a twenty year old girl muse on her life. I don't have an attachment to 'youth angst' anymore. As for the Yes analogy, a Yes fan still wants to listen to Yes Music. Most people are Nostalgic about music, but I can testify that you won't find many Yes fans that would dig - a new Yes album with breakbeats!!! Going back to Wire, and this is speculation on my part, but I think that Wire's reason for reforming would be that they still have something to prove. Whether they admit it or not, I think their lack of commercial success does bother them. charles /wmo in ny ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 07:24:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Billy D Subject: Re: Thoughts? (fwd) I just purchased my tickets for the Culture Club, Howard Jones, Human League show next month. btw...The Human League's 'Reproduction' came out in 1979 and I believe it helped to set the stage for all of the electronic music we listen to today... Cheers, BillyD p.s. I saw The Buzzcocks two years ago in Boston and it was quite a laugh. Some bands break up for a reason. Although I never tire of hearing 'Orgasm Addict'. - ---CliveNice@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-07-07 16:13:45 EDT, you write: > > << > But where do people(the audiences) draw the line, and stop grouping these > > people in with washed up old fogies who didn't grow up? For instance, I > > went to see Flock of Seagulls, and Mising Persons a couple years ago. > > Berlin Toured, too. Gary Numan is touring. Creatures are touring. If > > John Cale didn't change her for the worse, then I don't know what did. > >> > > Flock of Seagulls just played a free show on the 4th here in Tampa....i > would've gone but I broke my motivation on the ride over. > > I'd go to many of these reunion shows for a good laugh, if nothing else....I > went to see the Sex Pistols in Memphis (the re-union)...it was really > funny...they were spoiled rockstars...and to top it off, the venue that they > played at (called Mud Island or something) wouldn't allow anyone to get out of > their seat through the entire show! > > But i did get to meet them so i suppose it was worth it.... > > The moral? Re-union Concerts are Laughable. > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 98 23:31:08 -0000 From: Yoshi matsumoto Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #74 >yes, colin has said that. But that was reason why they never made >another Wir record - they couldn't get through that mix! Both Bruce and >Graham were happy with Paul Kendall's work. Colin was the dissenter. > >charles/ wmo in ny Interesting point, as I happened to pick up a copy of Main's 'Ligature - Remixes' album which opens with a PK remix. Strange thing, this Main track given a Wir(e) flavor... it sounds almost like it was taken off the First Letter or Insiding. Now, with the issue of mixing and an earlier thread about a subscriber's CD idea, wouldn't it be cool if the folks from wmo could coordinate a subscriber-based CD comp of Wir(e) remixes, where each subscriber would ask for specific tracks off a tune s/he'd like to remix? Probably impossible due to logistics and legal barriers (Mute owns the recordings?), but just a thought -- if the members can't decide who'd do the mixing, let people volunteer for it! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * A lemon beside an orange is no longer a lemon, the orange no longer an orange; they have become fruit. - -Georges Braque * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Yoshi Matsumoto email: liminal@st.rim.or.jp web: http://www.at-m.or.jp/~liminal * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:32:35 -0500 From: "Mack" Subject: Deep Thoughts >btw...The Human League's 'Reproduction' came out in 1979 and I believe >it helped to set the stage for all of the electronic music we listen >to today... Check out the recent reissue of Raymond Scott's Soothing Music for Baby > >p.s. I saw The Buzzcocks two years ago in Boston and it was quite a >laugh. Some bands break up for a reason. >Although I never tire of hearing 'Orgasm Addict'. Actually the entire catalog of pre-reunion Buzzcocks is still eminently listenable ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 07:31:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Billy D Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #74 I'm sure used Yes lps are a dime a dozen... BillyD - ---wmo ny wrote: > > > > > You know, this sort of thing absolutely puzzles me. I became a music > > consumer only very shortly before CD's came out, so I do have a couple > > albums. But why are people still so addicted to vinyl? Does anyone > > have nostalgia for 8-tracks? (I shudder at the thought!) I had some > > Swim records for about a year before I could even find a record player > > to play them on! > > Oh Andrew - you're showing your age! :) > IMHO I think there is a level of Nostalgia to vinyl. there's some thrill > that I get from the vinyl format that a CD will never quite repeat. The > album cover, inner sleeves, etc... It's a tactile thing. As a ten year > old kid picking up a Yes lp for the first time... > > Plus Used lp's are a LOT cheaper than CD's! > > charles > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:50:30 -0500 From: Chris Walker Subject: RE: Thoughts? (fwd) > p.s. I saw The Buzzcocks two years ago in Boston and it was quite a > laugh. Some bands break up for a reason. > Although I never tire of hearing 'Orgasm Addict'. > > I am surprised that so many of you seem to get a laugh out of bands > reuniting and touring. I saw Kraftwerk last month, and although they > hadn't formally broken up, they hadn't released a studio album since > 1986. The show they put on was fantastic, and although it wasn't a > reuniting of a break up, it was a return after a 10+ year hiatus! > > I am also going to see Bauhaus here in Chicago in August. I cannot > tell you how much I am looking forward to this and I am sure I will > not disappointed. I better not, I bought two tickets for two different > shows and spent close to $80 bones. > > Now, on the flip side, I too have tickets to the Culture Club, Human > League, H. Jones show. On one hand this show will humor me because > these were the bands I listened to when I was 9, 10, 11, and 12 years > old. And that was that, and therefore I find some amusement of > returning to what I played within my headphones in my pre-teen years > > So, on one hand that'll give me a giggle or two, but in the essence of > a 26-year-old like myself seeing a band like Bauhaus or Kraftwerk, > both who prospered when I was around 7 or 8 years old, it is a great > thrill. I suppose that certain fans who were around to enjoy some of > these bands in their heydey may have a differing opinion, but it > intrigues me why so much amusement rather than pure enjoyment seems to > come out in fans who go see these bands after a break up or long > hiatus. > > Oh, and I talked to some people who saw the return of 'X' in their > original lineup, and they all seemed in awe. Once again, a reuniting > of old that left fans in awe instead of a crowd of laughter. > > Of course, I can see some of your points... Maybe it has to do with > the band and its members and what they have done in between. Take for > example, Wire. If they were to get together again, yes it would be > intriguing, but all Wire fans know that the band members are still > involved in various music-related projects now, so it wouldn't be like > a dead-pan return to music since they are already involved in it. > While, on the other hand, bands like Culture Club, seemingly may have > been lying dead for a number of years collecting dust and outfits for > Boy George, so the return naturally shows all sorts of signs of > laugher. And so on, take for instance 1) Love and Rockets and Peter > Murphy's solo career make the Bauhaus resurrection somewhat simpler > 2) The 'X' connection with Doe and Cervenka still involved in solo > careers made playing together a bit easier, etc., etc. > > Just talkin' on hump day, > > C. Walker ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:53:31 -0500 From: Chris Walker Subject: RE: idealcopy-digest V1 #74 I wish I still had my LP collection, but several floods in the mid 90s destroyed just about all of that. I still have about 20 or 25 lying around with no sleeves or anything. Of course, I don't remember exactly where I put 'em. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:14:40 -0500 From: "Mack" Subject: Re: Thoughts? (fwd) >> I am surprised that so many of you seem to get a laugh out of bands >> reuniting and touring. I saw Kraftwerk last month, and although they >> hadn't formally broken up, they hadn't released a studio album since >> 1986. The show they put on was fantastic, and although it wasn't a >> reuniting of a break up, it was a return after a 10+ year hiatus! A quick note here I also saw the Kraftwerk show here in Chicago But I also saw the ComputerWorld tour in Detroit 17 or 18 years ago The big kicks for me from the more recent show were A - How close to identical the two shows were Major points of difference were that Karl Bartos and Wolfgang Flur had left in the past 10 years, reportedly due to the frustration of no new material in 15 years Karl took his speech synthesizer with him so in the new show all the 'robot' voices were recordings instead of live B- Karl and Wolfgang played percussion (synth trigger pads) 17 years ago - This year all was programmed C- The videos were the same - but Karl and Wolfgang were edited out D - The majority of the audience was too young to have seen them the last time around All that said, me and my pal (who saw the Detroit show with me so so long ago and flew in from Boston for this one) had a great time - appreciated everything and got a big kick out of the enthusiasm of the crowd. But technically there was not what you could call a lot of development over the past 15 - odd years Another friend's comment about the Visuals was "Where did they find the Commodore 64s"? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:21:45 -0800 From: nobrand@bitburn.org (B. Coates) Subject: RE: Thoughts? (fwd) > I am surprised that so many of you seem to get a laugh out of bands > reuniting and touring. I think a lot of it is visual. When you saw Neil Young or Led Zeppelin perform when they were young, they looked like sloppy old men, and still look like sloppy old men. Easy to take. But when you see someone like Flock of Seagulls dressed up like a little golf caddy or a gas station attendant, it's hard not to laugh, since so much of their success was based on looks. I think that's why Wir(e) would be accepted by most, because they had a pretty conservative look to begin with. >> I am also going to see Bauhaus here in Chicago in August. I cannot >> tell you how much I am looking forward to this and I am sure I will >> not disappointed. I better not, I bought two tickets for two different >> shows and spent close to $80 bones. >> I have seen a few Love and rockets shows over the course of the last 10 years, and they put on a great show. Peter Murphy has a sense of awe and respect about him that is hard to match. My problem with the reunion was the fact that the band split to keep people from continuing to kill themselves in Bauhaus' name. A reunion almost seems to deny that, or disrespect it. It wouldn't be such a big deal, if they hadn't made such a big deal of it in the first place. >> Of course, I can see some of your points... Maybe it has to do with >> the band and its members and what they have done in between. Take for >> example, Wire. If they were to get together again, yes it would be >> intriguing, but all Wire fans know that the band members are still >> involved in various music-related projects now, so it wouldn't be like >> a dead-pan return to music since they are already involved in it. >> While, on the other hand, bands like Culture Club, seemingly may have >> been lying dead for a number of years collecting dust and outfits for >> Boy George, so the return naturally shows all sorts of signs of >> laugher. And so on, take for instance 1) Love and Rockets and Peter >> Murphy's solo career make the Bauhaus resurrection somewhat simpler >> 2) The 'X' connection with Doe and Cervenka still involved in solo >> careers made playing together a bit easier, etc., etc. >> I agree. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 98 11:42:37 -0400 From: Subject: Re: Comeback In new halves? > I don't have an attachment >to 'youth angst' anymore. As for the Yes analogy, a Yes fan still wants >to listen to Yes Music Do you mean they want to hear new music by Yes or they want to confine themselves to living in the past by only listening to older works by Yes? >It has to do with the *new* music being put out today. A >case in point here is Alanis Morissette. I for one don't want to listen >to a twenty year old girl muse on her life But you do listen to new music as well as old, correct? (And I don't just mean Wire's solo releases) Just looking for clarification, Eric auteur@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:00:02 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Re: Deep Thoughts On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Mack wrote: > Actually the entire catalog of pre-reunion Buzzcocks is still eminently > listenable I agree with this. I saw the Buzzcocks play a club in '78. I also saw a reunion show 4 years ago. The '78 show was incredible. The Clash were playing the same week, and they showed up for the show. The assumption at that time (which I believe 20 years has proven, if not "wrong" certainly less true) was that the Clash were THE band (the Sex Pistols were gone), and at first their presence detracted from the Buzzcocks. But by the end of the show, no one was thinking about the Clash anymore. Their show, a night or two later, was pretty dull by comparison. The reunion show? Well, the new material was pretty dull, but the old stuff was still great. As with Wire, I still listen to old Buzzcocks records for more than simple nostalgia. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 98 11:09:38 -0500 From: #rciscon Subject: Re: Thoughts? >I question your thinking here. Is there a new audience for 50-year-old men >who like to tinker with machines and make non-linear, un-pop songs? Are they >going to say anything that the great unwashed mass of paying customers >want to Here's where I think you are totally and completely wrong! 'Pop' and/or 'Pop' sensibilities are a major part of Wir/e. With the possible exception of 'Manscape', every Wir/e release post '85 has had major 'pop' elements in it. The magic of Wir/e is that they have managed to be all of the things you describe AND be pop at the same time. Even on 'The First Letter' I would say that 'So and Slow', 'Stop', 'It Continues', and others contain wonderful 'pop' elements. >hear? We who read i.c. are definitely on the fringe, and are not the >Wal-Mart >customer the labels seek. Accessible artists who make easy music are >having a >hard enough time getting heard, I think. The audience for over-40 artists >is... sleepy. > >Don't get me wrong-- I'd love to hear something new. But I don't see it >coming, even if lots of people are 'stealing their shit', as jazz musicians >like to say. > Ray Ciscon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 98 11:09:40 -0500 From: #rciscon Subject: Re: Analog/Digital >>You know, this sort of thing absolutely puzzles me. I became a music >>consumer only very shortly before CD's came out, so I do have a couple >>albums. But why are people still so addicted to vinyl? >If you have a really good system - vinyl wins hands down in warmth and >listenability >and loses on convenience and durability Warmth..... uh... can you describe that just a bit more technically? To me this 'warmth' issue is complete BullShit. It's the same kind of BS that non-electronica people use when that say that 'electronic music' is 'cold'. Then we have this additional crap about how 'analog synthesizers have a fatter sound and produce more warmth and body than digital synths'..... again a complete and subjective description. Now if someone said that they 'think that old analog synths sound different from digital synths', I would't have a problem. I for one am tired of this crap, and I'm not going to take it any more. As for the Vinyl vs. CD argument.... it comes down to two basic facts: 1) Vinyl is an analog recording process on a degenerative media -- every time you play an LP, you are in a small way ruining the recording and it will never get better. CD is a digital process that can indeed remove some of the sound that is there on vinyl.... the problem is that about 1 in 1,000,000 have good enough ears to tell the difference. 2) CD's and digital recording are a non-degenerative process. If you take proper care of a CD, the 1000th play will sound the same as the first. Bottom Line: I've ruined countless LP's with scratches, bad needles, and just plain wear and tear...... I HAVE NEVER RUINED A SINGLE CD IN MY LIFE! >> Does anyone have nostalgia for 8-tracks? (I shudder at the thought!) >Actually yes - >See if you can locate a copy of the zine '8 Track Mind' >There actually was a feature film too >The name of which escapes me - but I'll update later >Oddly enough the 8 Track technology was superior to cassette >(faster IPS) but the pre-record sound quality was so dreadful >and record companies used the cheapest blanks. >consult the following location for more: >http://www.8trackheaven.com/ > >david > Ray Ciscon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:21:34 +0200 (MET DST) From: info@massproduktion.y.se (Massproduktion) Subject: Re: wire live Hi This is Mats. Probably the only Swede on the list. This list have exploded for the last months so its hard to keep up it you want to add something. Well heres some comments (a bit late as the first mail bounced): >Did anyone on this list see WIRE live in the "154" era in particular or >any of the first three albums? ... care to recount the experience? set >list? Yep. I saw them in London in 79 playing together with The The and Manicured Noice as I have said in an earlier mail. I think it was at the same time they recorded the livetracks for the album (which I cant find the name for). It was great. I dont remember much of what they played but at least the very agressive version of Being sucked in I do remember. Steve Jackson also wrote:Most of all I remember Graham Lewis, who was like a man >possessed. I haveyet to see a band where a member played like his life depended >on it. He was playing a headless bass (called The Rail I think ) and he had his >teeth clenched like he was about to explode! He looked absolutely amazing, and >at this point I thought he was the coolest bloke I had ever seen. ' Agreed. I did take some photos and when I looked at them just yesterday I realied what an impression he gave. He looked really dangerous! Auteur wrote: >Something I'm curious about list members, how many are involved in musical >projects of their own? Was. Not any longer. Some friends and I have lo hobby-punkband which did play a very chaotic version of 1 2 X U at their last gig. >P.S. Doesn't it seem unbelievably odd that Wir opened up for Blur one time? Not to me. From what I have heard they are really wire-freaks. I have not heard all of the latest album but it sounds very Wire-inspired to me.. Could song nr 2 be refering to Wires song no 1? All the best Mats ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:34:02 +0100 From: ubaran@iclretail.icl.com Subject: Wire on Video Dear all, I am attempting to put together a compilation of Wire video material to make available for anyone interested. There's quite a lot of stuff about most of which is pretty awful picture quality. The best I've seen is the Rockpalast performance from german TV in about '78/79 which is terrific and I've got a promise of a first generation copy to include on the compilation. So far, I'm getting a lot of support from people who can best be described as 'involved' and I'm trying to find out what source material is available, what quality it is and see if I can get hold of copies as close to first generation as possible. I'll then make up a high quality compilation tape and copy it at cost to those interested (in any format). I'm basically asking all of you who may have anything of wire's on video to please let me know about it and hopefully either let me copy it onto the compilation or trace it back to source for the same reason. Clearly, everyone can swap with everyone else but apart from being inefficient, the picture quality is soon destroyed through multiple copies. The idea here is that with a single source, hopefully most people can contribute a little and everyone will have access to a lot and with a bit of support and profile, more things will appear than would have otherwise. This is not a money making scheme (in fact, it's probably a money losing scheme) but my motivations are to see more Wire video material and to contribute to the area. The result will not be 'official' or under anyone's business banner. Please help if you can and get back to me with details. Uri ubaran@iclretail.icl.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:47:48 -0500 From: "Mack" Subject: Re: wire live >This is Mats. Probably the only Swede on the list. aw c'mon - there have to be more >Yep. I saw them in London in 79 playing together with The The and Manicured >Noice as I have said in an earlier mail. I think it was at the same time >they recorded the livetracks for the album (which I cant find the name for). you lucky dog 'document and eywitness?' >I haveyet to see a band where a member played like his life >depended >on it. He was playing a headless bass (called The Rail I think ) >and he had his >teeth clenched like he was about to explode! He looked >absolutely amazing, and >at this point I thought he was the coolest bloke I >had ever seen. Andy Partridge of XTC (in their touring daze) was the most over-the-top performer of my visage After seeing what he went through onstage - I dont wonder that he does not want to play out anymore More the loss for us tho - the edge he had in those days was incredible to see and here another strange onstage presence was Michael Stipe on REM's tour for Recloning He sang with a sheet over himself for the entire show I thought it was meant to be mystical or something, but later read that was his way of dealing with stage-fright In answer to the 'bullshit' about vinyl being 'warmer' Perception is nessicarily subjective I love technology and digital as well as analog synthesis But Having A/B compared MasterDisc recordings (vinyl and CD) of Dark Side of the Moon at an Audiophile acquaintances house on a truly incredible sound system a couple years back There was no way that I could say that vinly didnt sound better, clearer... That said - it WAS DSOTM which is not my standard listening fare My subjective opinion as well is that solo piano recordings are eminently more listenable on record even with the opos and clicks on CD they always seem to be mastered so that one must be blasted through the wall by the loud portions to even hear the soft ones CDs have come a long way since that A/B comparison and I own tons of them but... I stick to my guns about the quality of sound in analog recordings ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 14:06:03 -0400 From: "Lee S. Kilpatrick (Mr. Breeze)" Subject: Re: Analog/Digital > >>You know, this sort of thing absolutely puzzles me. I became a music > >>consumer only very shortly before CD's came out, so I do have a couple > >>albums. But why are people still so addicted to vinyl? > >If you have a really good system - vinyl wins hands down in warmth and > >listenability > >and loses on convenience and durability > > Warmth..... uh... can you describe that just a bit more technically? > > To me this 'warmth' issue is complete BullShit. > > It's the same kind of BS that non-electronica people use when that say > that 'electronic music' is 'cold'. "Warmth" is a pretty emotianl thing -- describing it technically might not really work. Last week on another mailing list I'm on (concerning CD-Rs), an audio engineer posted a message that talked about how the complete elimination of high-frequency noise in recordings makes the music sound to most people like it lacks high-end "energy". Though an audio analysis might indicate that the exact same frequencies are there in both recordings (plus the noise in one), the two recordings are perceived as different, with the one having noise preferred. This is why, he said, that when recordings are mastered, not all the noise is removed. This could explain why the noiseless CDs can sound worse than vinyl, and also why "electronic music" sounds "cold". The "electronic music" might be predominantly digitally recorded & mastered, whereas non-electronic music might have more analog components in the recording process, thus introducing more noise. Someone mentioned the relative resolutions of CDs vs. vinyl. What exactly *is* the resolution of vinyl, as compared to CDs? My record player can repoduce the same approximate frequency range as a CD (maybe slightly more, according to the specs), but does the quality of the vinyl allow frequencies to be recorded along that entire range? > >> Does anyone have nostalgia for 8-tracks? (I shudder at the thought!) > >Actually yes - > >See if you can locate a copy of the zine '8 Track Mind' > >There actually was a feature film too > >The name of which escapes me - but I'll update later > >Oddly enough the 8 Track technology was superior to cassette > >(faster IPS) but the pre-record sound quality was so dreadful Though the 8-track mechanism may have been inferior -- the few 8-tracks I had all eventually wore out so they made squaking and clicking noises when I played them. Mac vs. PC debate, anyone? Lee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:12:34 -0500 From: "Mack" Subject: Re: Analog/Digital >Mac vs. PC debate, anyone? you're on :) not really ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 21:16:05 +0000 From: "Ian J. Harris" Subject: Re: Thoughts? (fwd) > I actually didn't mean it as a disrespect to him in general, though it was > pretty harsh. My point was more the fact that usually, if a band doesn't > flog a dead horse(ala Missing Persons) they change for the worse- like > Siouxsie. Or the B52s. The B52s???????????????????? Could you elaborate on this? They are a group of 40/50 somethings who have produced a very consistent body of work IMHO. I always had a problem with 40something artists, but now with Kraftwerk, Bowie, Numan (check out his latest "Exile" if you don't believe me!) and plenty more still making good music I will admit I have eaten my words. B52s forever! ~ Ian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 98 18:45:07 -0400 From: Subject: New Pablo's Eye Greetings All! I just picked up the new Pablo's Eye CD today (on swim~) and have to tell everyone that it's quite good! In reference to our heated debate a few weeks back regarding electronic music with no emotion...well, this is a prime example of intelligent and even passionate work. Cheers to swim~ for recognizing the aural and sonic brilliance of this outfit! Eric auteur@ix.netcom.com P.S. For all the vinyl-philes (and yes, I am also one) who complain of CDs without warmth..listen to this one! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:54:22 -0800 From: nobrand@bitburn.org (B. Coates) Subject: Re: Thoughts? (fwd) >On an unrelated, but Wire-related note, I've dug out my old 70s UK punk >zines and I found some Wire stuff therein. (Yuzz, I'm showing my age. Olde >Punke.) I'm about to html-ize it and I'll pass on the url when I'm done, if >anyone's interested. > Very. I am of the reunion era, and have but one interview to contribute, from Strange things are happening magazine. It was written by an AVID fan from the early wire, and is a very enthusiastic piece. If I transcribe(copy ;) it, could it be included with these others for convenience? Brian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 20:33:22 -0400 From: "Sister ZuZu" Subject: Old Wire articles (was Re: Thoughts? (fwd)) From: B. Coates >>On an unrelated, but Wire-related note, I've dug out my old 70s UK punk >>zines and I found some Wire stuff therein. (Yuzz, I'm showing my age. Olde >>Punke.) I'm about to html-ize it and I'll pass on the url when I'm done, if >>anyone's interested. >> > >Very. I am of the reunion era, and have but one interview to contribute, >from Strange things are happening magazine. It was written by an AVID fan >from the early wire, and is a very enthusiastic piece. If I >transcribe(copy ;) it, could it be included with these others for >convenience? Certainly, Brian! I'd be very pleased to include the interview you have. The one I have is a brief show review and and interview with Klive. It's not the height of intelligence, as these are obviously kids that did the zine, and Klive may well cringe if he were to see this now. There's no mention of when and where the gig was, either, although he did say it was at 9:45. Heh. Now that I look at it, it's not all that valuable. The rest of the zines are great, but... Wire didn't even get a photo in. Oh well. ZuZu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:17:28 -0800 From: nobrand@bitburn.org (B. Coates) Subject: Re: b52s(my last off topic post) ...............................today ;) >The B52s???????????????????? > Could you elaborate on this?...B52s forever! > Alright, I will briefly apologize for off topic posts. From this message on, I will reply in private to the appropriate parties for completely off topic conversation. I feel a bit guilty for my last few posts... I understand that this is a _completely_ subjective opinion here. I, as a kid dug B52s passionately. As 'Bouncing Off' was released, I was a bit disappointed, but continued to listen. Upon 'Cosmic Thing', I became an apostate. It was too syrupy sweet. Sort of like the difference between having fun(post Whammy), and having illicit, drunken, hedonistic fun(pre Bouncing). But for lack of a better word(again) the 'edge' wasn't there. It lost it's _drive_. They are simply songs, and not anthems anymore. This Debbie Harry tribute song is an example(imo), pour on the radio friendlyness in substitute for adventure. In order to fit Wire into the subject matter here, the element of 'DUGGA' was present with things like 'party out of bounds', 'runnin around', '6060-842', 'butterbean' and ' big bird'. There's nothing like that on the last few albums. Honestly, I believe the Fairlight CMI being brought in on 'Bouncing Off...' album took the 'feel' away from the band (among other factors such as family death, etc.) Thats all :) Brian ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V1 #75 ******************************