From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V1 #70 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, July 4 1998 Volume 01 : Number 070 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Elitism/A-Z/Gender [Stephen Harper ] Elitism/A-Z/Gender [Stephen Harper ] Elitism/A-Z/Gender [Stephen Harper ] Intro ["Ian J. Harris" ] Books written by members of Wire? [CliveNice@aol.com] Re: Elitism/A-Z/Gender [nobrand@bitburn.org (B. Coates)] Re: Elitism/A-Z/Gender [] Re: Elitism/A-Z/Gender [Andrew N Westmeyer ] Wire Fans / Musicians [Chad Wilson ] Re: Elitism/A-Z/Gender [] Re: Elitism/A-Z/Gender ["David Mac" ] Re: Elitism/A-Z/Gender [] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 05:43:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Harper Subject: Elitism/A-Z/Gender This is my first posting on the list, so go easy on me. At the risk of sounding patronising, I must say that the quality of discussion is incredibly high compared to that on other forums. I was particularly interested in the "elitism" postings. Wire themselves (and Colin in particular) often have a jibe at what they call elitism, but I think that they are wrong (sorry lads, just my opinion). It's not elitist to say that Wire are one of the best bands (or even the best), any more than it is elitist to say that Shakespeare is the best English writer; it's simply a viewpoint that must be defended by careful argument (I've been trying do this recently in an article I'm writing on the band, if anyone is interested). You can't throw out the traditional standards of critical appreciation as Colin so often tries to do. Nor (of course) do heady claims about Wire's greatness imply that Wire fans regard themselves as morally superior to Spice Girls devotees. Anyway... Got the rereleased A-Z recently and was massively impressed (never heard it before). Highlights surely are I've Waited Ages, & Jury (so intimate, so un-Wirelike), Order for Order, Inventory, Not Me. Alone seems a little insipid, but works well in Silence/Lambs. I think the whole thing is more exciting than any of Wire's first three albums (much as I love them), but then, like Thom and others, I'm most drawn to the "reunion" stuff (can't help it, I'm 27). The gender balance question is also an interesting one. I only ever met one girl who liked Wire, and I would have married her instantly had I not been involved with someone else at the time. Hey ho. How about helping out guys like me with a Wire dating service ("Edible Hunters" or "Wire - The Singles")? Just a thought. Steve _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 05:43:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Harper Subject: Elitism/A-Z/Gender This is my first posting on the list, so go easy on me. At the risk of sounding patronising, I must say that the quality of discussion is incredibly high compared to that on other forums. I was particularly interested in the "elitism" postings. Wire themselves (and Colin in particular) often have a jibe at what they call elitism, but I think that they are wrong (sorry lads, just my opinion). It's not elitist to say that Wire are one of the best bands (or even the best), any more than it is elitist to say that Shakespeare is the best English writer; it's simply a viewpoint that must be defended by careful argument (I've been trying do this recently in an article I'm writing on the band, if anyone is interested). You can't throw out the traditional standards of critical appreciation as Colin so often tries to do. Nor (of course) do heady claims about Wire's greatness imply that Wire fans regard themselves as morally superior to Spice Girls devotees. Anyway... Got the rereleased A-Z recently and was massively impressed (never heard it before). Highlights surely are I've Waited Ages, & Jury (so intimate, so un-Wirelike), Order for Order, Inventory, Not Me. Alone seems a little insipid, but works well in Silence/Lambs. I think the whole thing is more exciting than any of Wire's first three albums (much as I love them), but then, like Thom and others, I'm most drawn to the "reunion" stuff (can't help it, I'm 27). The gender balance question is also an interesting one. I only ever met one girl who liked Wire, and I would have married her instantly had I not been involved with someone else at the time. Hey ho. How about helping out guys like me with a Wire dating service ("Edible Hunters" or "Wire - The Singles")? Just a thought. Steve _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 05:43:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Harper Subject: Elitism/A-Z/Gender This is my first posting on the list, so go easy on me. At the risk of sounding patronising, I must say that the quality of discussion is incredibly high compared to that on other forums. I was particularly interested in the "elitism" postings. Wire themselves (and Colin in particular) often have a jibe at what they call elitism, but I think that they are wrong (sorry lads, just my opinion). It's not elitist to say that Wire are one of the best bands (or even the best), any more than it is elitist to say that Shakespeare is the best English writer; it's simply a viewpoint that must be defended by careful argument (I've been trying do this recently in an article I'm writing on the band, if anyone is interested). You can't throw out the traditional standards of critical appreciation as Colin so often tries to do. Nor (of course) do heady claims about Wire's greatness imply that Wire fans regard themselves as morally superior to Spice Girls devotees. Anyway... Got the rereleased A-Z recently and was massively impressed (never heard it before). Highlights surely are I've Waited Ages, & Jury (so intimate, so un-Wirelike), Order for Order, Inventory, Not Me. Alone seems a little insipid, but works well in Silence/Lambs. I think the whole thing is more exciting than any of Wire's first three albums (much as I love them), but then, like Thom and others, I'm most drawn to the "reunion" stuff (can't help it, I'm 27). The gender balance question is also an interesting one. I only ever met one girl who liked Wire, and I would have married her instantly had I not been involved with someone else at the time. Hey ho. How about helping out guys like me with a Wire dating service ("Edible Hunters" or "Wire - The Singles")? Just a thought. Steve _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 14:25:25 +0000 From: "Ian J. Harris" Subject: Intro Hi Just subscribed to the list so I thought I'd give a quick hello. My name is Ian, I am 26 and live in Witham, Essex. I am a fairly recent convert to Wire (circa 1996) but they rapidly became one of my most listened to bands. Other artists I like are Devo, Kraftwerk, Sparks, B52s, M, Smiths, Depeche Mode, Talk Talk, Bowie and many many others. My favourite Wire album is 154 and favourite track is a split between Our Swimmer and A Serious of Snakes. ~ Ian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 11:36:23 EDT From: CliveNice@aol.com Subject: Books written by members of Wire? Has any member of Wire written any books? (not about Wire) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 10:01:21 -0800 From: nobrand@bitburn.org (B. Coates) Subject: Re: Elitism/A-Z/Gender At 5:43 AM 7.3.98, Stephen Harper wrote: >This is my first posting on the list, so go easy on me. Me, too. >I was particularly interested in the "elitism" postings. I missed them. Is there an archive? >Got the rereleased A-Z recently ...Alone >seems a little insipid, but works well in Silence/Lambs. On the elitist subject, I feel a bit that way regarding this. I first started listening to Colin Newman's solo as a result of this track being covered on Filigree and Shadow by This Mortal Coil. I read the credits, and noticed Colin's name, so I tracked down the original. Later, when I heard it in Silence of the Lambs, I was first excited, but later felt violated. I know it's silly, but that's how it goes :) I'm over it of course, but there was that initial sense of,'hey, this is _mine_, it's too good for the masses.' >I'm most drawn >to the "reunion" stuff (can't help it, I'm 27). I've probably gotten the most mileage out of 'Ideal Copy' and 'Bell is a Cup'(can't help it either, I'm 28), but love the pre-85 as well, particularly Chairs Missing. Age isn't a perfect indicator of opinion, though. I just sold a moped to a 22 year old, who adored everything Wire pre-85, even influencing his _own_ music, but really didn't like the later stuff. It shook me! Something I'm curious about list members, how many are involved in musical projects of their own? It seems that fans of bands like Wire, theThe, TWP, etc. are generally more likely to have an interest in music itself, rather than fans of say, Madonna or Spice Girls. (A good argument for the Elitist subject :) Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 98 13:19:34 -0400 From: Subject: Re: Elitism/A-Z/Gender >Something I'm curious about list members, how many are involved in musical >projects of their own? Well, I'll bite. I've been involved in creating music for some time. I had been in a band for a couple of years, but left because of the usual artistic differences. The outfit I had been in was simply into noise for noise's sake without providing any form of structure or methodology (read: it's fun to make noise, but usually just for those creating it and no one else!) Thus I set up my own personal studio and have been working solo ever since on primarily electronic (there's that word again) excursions. I won't elaborate any further than that for fear of sounding like a pompous twit! :) >TWP Alright! Glad to see someone else who likes the Wolfgang Press. They are fabuloso. That's all for me right now! Eric auteur@ix.netcom.com np: LPD: "Hellsville" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 13:32:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: Re: Elitism/A-Z/Gender Excerpts from mail: 3-Jul-98 Re: Elitism/A-Z/Gender by auteur@ix.netcom.com > >Something I'm curious about list members, how many are involved in musical > >projects of their own? > > Well, I'll bite. I've been involved in creating music for some time. I did the punk thing in high school (we covered Ex-Lion Tamer, like everyone else in the world) and have recently started recording electronic stuff. Actually, I find the electronic stuff much more difficult. This thread brings up an interesting idea. If there are enough people on this list who make their music, perhaps we could make a compilation of sorts? It needn't be Wire covers, although I do have a version of Drill which I didn't finish in time for Dugga^3. Just a thought. (Actually, the idea of Whore volume 2 seems rather anti-Wire!) (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "What a blessing that so much of humanity is able to be alive at the same time as myself." -Cecil Adams ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 10:33:27 -0700 From: Chad Wilson Subject: Wire Fans / Musicians I have been active in bands since 1987 when I was 16 years old. Funny enough I got a bass guitar the same Christmas my best friend introduced me to Ideal Copy and Wire. I may be one of the minority here that fields more of an influence from Colin Newman that any other solo Wire member, and at many times even more than Wire itself. The last band I worked with just released a CD last week. I played with this band long enough to tour and do demo recordings with them. The two songs that originated on my 8 track both have serious Wire influences. One is a variant on the relaxing mood of "It seems" (the song) and the other was the chorus to "In Vivo" which I mutated for guitar and bass, and tacked on to the intro and outro of the song. hehe... In case anyone is interested (I know, YAWN...) The album is "Incredible Husk" by Beatrice Nine, the cd can be ordered from cdnow.com and I think Amazon.com. I also have more about me and band stuff, because I know you all are SOOOoooo interested, at my homepage. http://users.cwnet.com/illy Chad - "Now theres a man who could take advantage..." - -----Original Message----- From: B. Coates [SMTP:nobrand@bitburn.org] Sent: Friday, July 03, 1998 11:01 AM To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: Elitism/A-Z/Gender Something I'm curious about list members, how many are involved in musical projects of their own? It seems that fans of bands like Wire, theThe, TWP, etc. are generally more likely to have an interest in music itself, rather than fans of say, Madonna or Spice Girls. (A good argument for the Elitist subject :) Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 98 14:17:38 -0400 From: Subject: Re: Elitism/A-Z/Gender > Actually, I find the electronic stuff much more >difficult. And thus much more challenging! As we've all discussed on this list during the past few weeks, it can be very taxing to come up with satisfying electronic music, and that's why I personally have been pursuing it. I spend so much time diligently recording, experimenting, and manipulating sounds and still always feel that I have further to go. For every 25 hours worth of my material or so, I would say I'm truly happy with about...oh..say an hours' worth! :) Still trying to achieve the sublime, Eric auteur@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:21:32 -0500 From: "David Mac" Subject: Re: Elitism/A-Z/Gender >any more than it is elitist to say that Shakespeare is the best English writer... whoooooa! and I thought I was a fan!? >...Wire fans regard themselves as morally superior to Spice Girls devotees. but i like the spice girls - they are rather a hoot and more listenable than 9/10s of what passes for 'sincere' pop music >I only ever met one girl who liked Wire, and I would have married her instantly >had I not been involved with someone else at the time. can't let the details stop you when you've fornd that special person... kidding, really My wife loved the Eardrum Buzz video and one Wire reunion show was one of the few musical events which she didn't want to leave after 45 minutes. In re participants' projects: I have been in 2 bands which covered 'Blessed State' - the first covered 'Boiling Boy' at one show after I quit. I find 'Blessed State' is a wonderful vehicle for sussing out partners' sensibilities. Caan't say why - maybe it's just so simple to play and impossible to imitate (the 154 final version) - maybe it's just me. Currently I have a small rock band project (very un-serious) and I continuously threaten to do some home recording in a more electronic vein, but never seem to get to it. (I am 41 - and it seems like there are just less hours in the day than 20 years ago) d ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 98 00:38:51 -0400 From: Subject: Re: Elitism/A-Z/Gender >.Wire fans regard themselves as morally superior to Spice Girls devotees. >but i like the spice girls - they are rather a hoot and more listenable than >9/10s of >what passes for 'sincere' pop music I must say that although I don't listen to their music, I actually find them unbelievably enjoyable in interviews and would love to have a drink with them sometime (preferrably Scary Spice, though my wife might have something to say about that!) Um...girl power..or something of that ilk. Cheers! Eric auteur@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V1 #70 ******************************