From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V1 #61 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, June 23 1998 Volume 01 : Number 061 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Head count.. [Craig N Grannell ] Re: elctronic vs hand-made song type music [NRuecker@t-online.de (Norbert] Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #60 ["charles / wmo" ] Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #60 ["Mack" ] Re: ideal-digestV1 -mix [KB305@aol.com] Various Topics [] Wire etc. on Video ["Wilson, Chad" ] RE: Wire etc. on Video [Chris Walker ] Re: Wire etc. on Video [Andrew N Westmeyer ] Re: Wire etc. on Video ["Mack" ] RE: Various Topics [Chris Walker ] Komar & Melamid, etc. [Amanda ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:21:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Craig N Grannell Subject: Re: Head count.. > Incidentally, I read (in > Re:Search, I think) that New York white noise king Boyd Rice (a.k.a. Non) > suffers a similar schizophrenia - he has a big thing for cheesy sixties > songstresses. > A lot of NON's music, particularly the older stuff, actually started out as really cheesy easy listening stuff and, as you may gather, was severely moshed and distorted into the sound loops on his LPs. - ----- Craig Grannell c.n.grannell@uwic.ac.uk (until June 30) cngrannell@yahoo.com (now) - ----- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:00:13 +0200 From: NRuecker@t-online.de (Norbert Ruecker) Subject: Re: elctronic vs hand-made song type music Having 2 or 3 guys with a strung piece of wood on their belly and a guy banging away on a drum set playing songs based on chord progressions is a type of music, that is based on a technology of ca. 1945 (Muddy Waters playing electic guitar). Recent sampler and computer technology has lead to completely different types of music, that are based on beats and noise rather than chord progressions and catchy melodies, produced by people who are often no instrumentalists in the traditional sense. I agree that the low costs of this equipemnt leads to a large amount of forgettable crap being delivered to the shops. But since these producers are no longer limited in their creativity by the often limited instrumental abilities of pop musicians, a new aesthetic has developped out of the dance music scene. It was the second coming of Wire that gave me a first hint, what could be done with computers and samplers other than cheap disco or hitparade rap music. That beats and loops -even if still played on real instruments- will be the foundation of today's popular music. Consequently this lead to the removal of all "song" or "tune" elements in CN's recent work. Beats & noise is all you need for good music these days, everyone can do it but only the people with creativity produce stunning results (3-5% of em all). Today I am an avid fan of DRUM & BASS, the best dance music EVER, and listen a lot to intelligent big beats music like the stuff out on the Ninja Tune label: DJ Food, Amon Tobin, DJ Vadim, but also Americans like WE (on Asphodel). These days I rarely touch my big collection of song type music: Indie rock, hardcore punk, and older stuff back to the sixties (I am 46 years old).It just doesn't kick any more. I just ordered the latest NoMeansNo CD. If this one sucks too, I am lost forever for rock music of all type. The use of the Roy Orbison sample on the track TROUBLED MIND of He Said Omala's remix CD is marvelous. MORE LIKE THIS PLEASE. Norbert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:52:56 -0700 From: "charles / wmo" Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #60 >My point is, though, that there's a huge audience and a lot of money >to be made by having a Puff Daddy remix. That means there'll be more >until The Next Big Thing comes along, and we'll probably dislike that, >too! Yeah but there's one big point to made here - They like it because they're conditioned to like it. Some huge percentage of our population NEVER ventures aways from the AM or mid bands of the FM dail. They don't know other music so they like what they're offered. THink of it like food at a restuarant... I don't know how many times I've been told about "my" "wierd" taste in music, or something to that effect. People don't know how to listen let alone apppreciate different musics, that, my friends is the danger in Puff Daddy. charles - -------------------------------------------- wmo@interserv.com http://wiremailorder.com/ catalog@wiremailorder.com updated: April 07, 1998 - -------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:48:11 -0500 From: "Mack" Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #60 >I don't know how many times I've been told about "my" "wierd" taste in >music, or something to that effect. People don't know how to listen let >alone apppreciate different musics, that, my friends is the danger in Puff >Daddy. I have resisted up to this point, but for what it's worth - heres my .02 I worked in record stores for about 5 years and within and without the music industry for a good deal longer, and I have come to the conclusion that a good rythm, ONE catchy melody (otherwise know as a hook) and ANY lyrical content makes a popular song. The public in general does not hunger for something new, rather they gravitate towards the farmiliar. This is not to belittle the general public. They just don't care about the things I do in music. I personally don't care about the things the general public cares about in cars. I mean where is the touchstone for the song YMCA's popularity in the otherwise homophobic public. Go to a Yankees game and watch thousand of people chant 'you can hang out with all the boys' The song has a strong beat and a hook. I personally would rather hear Lisa Stansfield or David Bowie than Puff Daddy who sounds like any one of a thousand high school kids here in Chicago, But what the hell, he has an ear for a hook, and Bowie and Stansfield (and/or their producers) hopefully get a royalty. Besides the general population didn't really pick up on Let's Dance the way they pick up on a sample 15 years later. So where's the harm, turn off your radio and look for originality somewhere else. You can hear it recycled back in another 10 or 15 years on the same radio station. But don't castigate those who craft music for the masses. They fill a need, not make one. If you think there should be more original music - make it. If you know of something which deserves wider attention - promote it but don't be dissapointed if everyone does not pick up on it right away that's life enough ranting already david ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:08:19 EDT From: KB305@aol.com Subject: Re: ideal-digestV1 -mix In a message dated 6/22/98 3:32:18 AM Central Daylight Time, owner-idealcopy- digest@smoe.org writes: << how many crappy rap bands with a Puff Daddy remix can the Billboard >> charts support? aN UNBElievable number, I'll warrant! Keep your radio on and find out!@ Then teach your children about music so that they may resist. The present generation is already fucked in that regard. Let them go. >> when will people realise that the music is shite. Never, come to think of it. Shite is in the mouth of the taster, says Gilbert and George. >> there aren't too many songs left to sample. >> Why? Is there a warehouse of samples we haven't heard yet? (Send Bruce into it armed with a box of C-90s and a case of scotch!) There would be no Puff Daddy sampling Sting without a bunch of artists on the fringe wishing to sample something in the first place, and then doing it. I say there would be no Puff Daddy without guys like our 3ab 4our. It's always the yeast that makes the bread grow. So the bread isn't too filling, eh? K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 98 16:27:53 -0400 From: Subject: Various Topics >I don't know how many times I've been told about "my" "wierd" taste in >music, or something to that effect. People don't know how to listen let >alone apppreciate different musics, that, my friends is the danger in Puff >Daddy. I personally enjoy being told by others that the music I listen to is weird; call me snobbish or elitist, but I'd rather the general populace listen to unintelligent drivel so that I can soak up all of the good music! :) After all--could you imagine Bruce Gilbert performing at football stadiums from inside a little shed onstage whilst fans chanted "Bruce! Bruce!" and painted the letters "G-I-L-B-E-R-T" on the chests of a group of overweight mens' bellies? On a side note, I found a SEALED copy of He Said "Take Care" on CD today for a few bucks, so I now have an extra copy of it on tape if anyone wants it. Just let me know and I'll mail it out to you free of charge. That's all for now, Eric auteur@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:42:36 -0700 From: "Wilson, Chad" Subject: Wire etc. on Video Would anybody be interested in trading some wire / etc. on video for a cd burn of Colin Newmans CN1 or any other weird / Rare Wire and offshoot material? Better yet, can I just send someone a tape and some money to cover time and labor? ;-) I really want some video! Chad ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:59:52 -0500 From: Chris Walker Subject: RE: Wire etc. on Video I am all for some video as well. I have their limited interview on MTV's 120, and just two videos, "Kidney Bingos" and "So and slow it grows." I've seen a couple other videos, "In Vivo" and "Ahead," but do not have them. Anyone know how many videos they've made? And which ones? Chris > -----Original Message----- > From: Wilson, Chad [SMTP:CWilson@thedoctors.com] > Sent: Monday, June 22, 1998 3:43 PM > To: 'idealcopy@smoe.org' > Subject: Wire etc. on Video > > Would anybody be interested in trading some wire / etc. on video for a > cd burn of Colin Newmans CN1 or any other weird / Rare Wire and > offshoot > material? Better yet, can I just send someone a tape and some money > to > cover time and labor? ;-) I really want some video! > > Chad ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:20:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: Re: Wire etc. on Video Excerpts from mail: 22-Jun-98 RE: Wire etc. on Video by Chris Walker@dorenfest.c > Anyone know how many videos they've made? And which ones? I made a list, but unfortunately it's not with me now, so I'm doing this from memory. Wire - Ahead, Silk Skin Paws, Kidney Bingos, Eardrum Buzz, In Vivo Wire - So And Slow It Grows AC Marias - One Of Our Girls, Just Talk Dome - Rolling Upon My Day He Said - Pump, Pulling 3gs, Could You He Said Omala - Post Code Orange Colin Newman - B, We Means We Starts Malka Spigel - Rotsa Ladat Od There are also a couple of shows floating around - Rockpalast from 1979 (?), Bloomsbury Theatre from 1985, and other bits and pieces. B&G played with Big Black when they covered "Heartbeat" on their Pigpile videotape. Also, I've heard that Lush did a video for "Outdoor Miner". OK, I've been hesitating to do this for fear that the demand would kill me, but I've got the aforementioned stuff (with the exceptions of WMWS, Rotsa, and the Lush cover). If you send me a videotape and some stamps, I'll copy them. HOWEVER!!! I'm currently stranded in Lubbock, Texas, until the end of July, and my tapes are all in beautiful Tempe, Arizona. Send me a personal email late July or early August and I'll send you my address. Let me also add that the reason I'm doing this is because I was desperate for Wire videos too! Those guys can't put out enough material to keep some of us happy! (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "What a blessing that so much of humanity is able to be alive at the same time as myself." -Cecil Adams ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:27:48 -0500 From: "Mack" Subject: Re: Wire etc. on Video > >Anyone know how many videos they've made? And which ones? don't know how many but Eardrum Buzz is a fave here Graham directed/produced/had considerable input or whatever for many if not most d ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:52:16 -0500 From: Chris Walker Subject: RE: Various Topics It would be better than them chanting, "B.C., B.C." or "Clifford, Clifford!" > After all--could you imagine Bruce Gilbert performing at football > stadiums from inside a little shed onstage whilst fans chanted "Bruce! > > Bruce!" and painted the letters "G-I-L-B-E-R-T" on the chests of a > group > of overweight mens' bellies? > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:34:29 -0500 (EST) From: Amanda Subject: Komar & Melamid, etc. > They played parts of this on my favorite radio show, This American Life, > sometime back. The "Least Wanted" elements in a song included rap, opera, > children's choruses, accordians, and songs about holidays, so the least > wanted song included a rapping opera singer backed by an accordian, > followed by a children's chorus singing "Yom Kippur, hey everybody it's Yom > Kippur..." That's where I first heard it, and I laughed so hard that tears were running down my face. It was well worth the $13 I paid for it. > Amen. And it's not hurting *us* any, so let the nice people like what they > want to like already. Amen again! Amanda - -- aschi@bronze.lcs.mit.edu aki@retina.net :=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=: "The avant-garde always ends up at WalMart sooner or later." -- A. Codrescu ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V1 #61 ******************************