From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V1 #34 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, April 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 034 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Colin Newman "Live" [] Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #33 ["charles / wmo" ] Re: Gong [] Manscape vs. The First Letter ["mark.short" ] Re: Manscape vs. The First Letter ["Thom S. Heileson" Subject: Colin Newman "Live" Is it my imagination or was Colin Newman supposed to perform a live show via NetRadio on Tuesday the 14th? Did anyone happen to hear this? If so, how was it? Curious. Eric auteur@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 08:06:13 -0700 From: "charles / wmo" Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V1 #33 >BTW, is the Dave Allen who produced 'Manscape', the same Dave Allen from >'Shriekback', 'Gang of Four', and who now runs World Domination records? >Dave Allen is/was an EXCELLENT bass player.... I just LOVED those >'Shriekback' albums from the 80's! My old boss? No he's not the Dave Allen that produced Wire, but yes, a Great Bass Player none-the-less. The Dave Allen who produced Manscape was a producer for Depeche Mode. Not to confuse the matter, but Daevid Allen has nothing to do with either, but everything with Gong. charles - -------------------------------------------- wmo@earthlink.net http://wiremailorder.com/ catalog@wiremailorder.com updated: April 07, 1998 - -------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 98 12:01:29 -0400 From: Subject: Re: Gong >but Daevid Allen has >nothing to do with either, but everything with Gong. Who I must say managed to put on one of the most ..erm.. creative shows I had ever seen when I saw them 2 years ago. I'm still not sure if I loved it or was repulsed by it, but it was fascinatingly entertaining, regardless! Eric auteur@ix.netcom.com (And for those of you who think this is non-Wire related, Colin and Desmond Simmons used to see Gong live in the early seventies) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 00:15:53 +0100 From: "mark.short" Subject: Manscape vs. The First Letter Recent posts have put the case for The First letter being a refinement of the techniques used on Manscape. I would argue that the music on Manscape is superior to that on TFL. TFL has some fine moments (Footsi, Ticking Mouth, So And Slow it Grows). But much of the album has an uninvolving and unrelenting feel, due in part to the lack of rhythmic invention. Perhaps this has something to do with Robert's absence. The fact that Wir did not produce a full-length follow up to TFL suggests that they were not entirely happy with its direction, and didn't want to pursue it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:07:35 -0800 From: "Thom S. Heileson" Subject: Re: Manscape vs. The First Letter mark.short wrote: > > I would argue that the music on Manscape is superior to that > on TFL. TFL has some fine moments (Footsi, Ticking Mouth, > So And Slow it Grows). But much of the album has an uninvolving > and unrelenting feel, due in part to the lack of rhythmic invention. > Perhaps this has something to do with Robert's absence. It's funnily ironic to read these different takes on these records... especially after having my own views on them for years before finding many folks as interested as me to debate them (having just joined this list). I really feel that every bit of TFL is masterpiece material, the only exception possibly being Big Glue Canal... Lack of rythmic invention? Hm, I guess many of the beats on TFL are 4-based - even the uniquely textured Naked, Whooping - but I think that there is quite a lot of ryhtmic innovation as a while going on during each track. Most of the album (personal faves are No Cows on the Ice, Get On Parade and Take It) is woven in dazzlingly creative ways from the sampled elements, imo... and the 4-based nature of the beat structure on the album seems important as a sort of anchor. When I mentioned a sort of "awkwardness" about Manscape, I was thinking in part of the very loose structure of many of the tracks - one gets almost a sense of meandering with tracks like You Hung Your Lights, Children of Groceries, and Torch It... As such I think this "meandering feel" works well, once the listener puts aside expectations for a more mapped-out terrain; he/she is carried along a nebulous journey instead. Still, Manscape feels to me like more of an experiment, and TFL more of a finished (sculpted?) work. - -- Shameless Fanboy _ _ _ Thom Heileson //)) //^~ heileson@u.washington.edu ((// // http://weber.u.washington.edu/~heileson University of Washington School of Art Center for Advanced Research Technology in the Arts and Humanities [CARTAH] 206.543.4218 ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V1 #34 ******************************