From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V1 #32 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, April 17 1998 Volume 01 : Number 032 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Gearhound ["charles / wmo" ] Re: Gearhound ["Mack" ] Re: To Speak and Let My Words Come Round Again [#rciscon ] Re: To Speak and Let My Words Come Round Again [Thom Heileson ] [none] [Andrew N Westmeyer ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 02:17:22 -0700 From: "charles / wmo" Subject: Gearhound Wire's tool of choice was the ubiquitous "sampler", not any keyboard. They were never "gear hounds". The 80's were about sequencing, the nineties, sampling and now computers - -------------------------------------------- wmo@earthlink.net http://wiremailorder.com/ catalog@wiremailorder.com updated: April 07, 1998 - -------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:22:54 -0500 From: "Mack" Subject: Re: Gearhound and at that - the (in)famous casio sk1 was a tool of choice this little sub-$100 item had no permanent memory so graham would sample bruce's guitar freshly during the show thereby adding a random element to each sample >Wire's tool of choice was the ubiquitous "sampler", not any keyboard. They >were never "gear hounds". The 80's were about sequencing, the nineties, >sampling and now computers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 09:48:22 -0500 From: #rciscon Subject: Re: To Speak and Let My Words Come Round Again > >> Well, if it was 'The First Letter', I like what they did. >> >> If it was 'Manscape'.... well the less said about that album the >> better.... > >Too bad; I'm gonna speak about it... :) But only a little. I've always >thought of Manscape as a crucial record in that it was here that Wir/e >started getting more experimental electronica-wise - not that they >(group and members) hadn't before, but it seemed new compositional >techniques begans here... > >As such, the record has a certain awkwardness, to be sure (i.e. growing >pains)... But I think that on certain subtle levels there are some real >intersting things going on. Anyway, tracks like "Where's The Deputation" >and "What Can You See" are, I think, great - hauting in a certain >hyper-mechanical flavor... Hyper-mechanical... yes..... but, IMO utterly without the melodic, almost 'pop', core hooks that are the hallmark of Wir/e (I'm thinking 'Kindey Bingos' and 'Ahead' here) for me. > >But yes, compared to the brilliance of First Letter, Manscape pales >quite a bit... > Hurrah! Someone else finally agrees with me that the First Letter is brilliant! Ray Ciscon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 10:29:33 -0500 From: #rciscon Subject: Re: To Speak and Let My Words Come Round Again >At 12:22 PM 4/15/98 -0700, Thom Heileson wrote: >>> I can't verify this right now, but I do believe that most of 'Manscape' >>> was done with guitar synthesisers.... >>> >>> Or was it 'The First Letter'? >> >>This is interesting; I never thought of guitar synthesizers per se being >>used on either of these albums... I only knew that around this time >>Wir/e began sort-of free-forming in the studio, then putting the pieces >>together in production (this, from reading Everybody Loves A History)... > >As I understand it, all of THE FIRST LETTER was created by Newman, Lewis >and Gilbert playing regular guitars that were MIDIed into some kind of >digital processor that created basically one big evolving loop that was >later manipulated into the separate songs. > >Stewart Yes, this is what I heard too. Using any Midi-fied guitar to trigger a digital processor (aka a synthesizer) is in essence a guitar synthesizer. The First Letter offered some really excellent results of their work. I only wish they would have continued in that vein. Ray Ciscon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:42:23 -0700 From: "Wilson, Chad" Subject: Speaking of Sampling I know I am preaching to the choir but as far as Wir/e Etc. goes I think the finest use of samplers and sequencing can be found of He Said "Hail". Of all the Wir/e Etc Albums/Singles/EP's this is my all time favorite! Talk about layers of sound, whew... Chad Wilson - cwilson@thedoctors.com NT Systems Administrator The Doctors' Company (707) 226-0338 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:07:04 -0700 From: Thom Heileson Subject: Re: To Speak and Let My Words Come Round Again > The First Letter offered some really excellent results of their work. I > only wish they would have continued in that vein. Yeah, though I like everything done by the 3 after this, I was a bit disappointed that the direction of 1stLetter wasn't followed up... That record is such a great combination of new/innovative and, well, catchy... the years following its release, I would listen to it nonstop repeatedly, and it never 'wore out'... I'd have to place it among my top 3, along with Ideal Copy and Chairs Missing... Not the most insightful post, but hey it's early for me. - -- _ _ _ Thom Heileson //)) //^~ heileson@u.washington.edu ((// // http://weber.u.washington.edu/~heileson/index.html Center for Advanced Research Technology in the Arts and Humanities [CARTAH] 206.543.4218 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 18:25:59 -0400 From: Subject: Re: The Advantage of Working in a Cube. >I think the flute on "Heartbeat" is actually used as a percussion >instrument: just the the keys being tapped, perhaps with the flute player >breathing lightly through the instrument, and the instrument's resonance >amplifying and extending the taps. > >You can hear this pretty clearly in the second half (I think) of the song. Ah-ha! I originally thought it was a synth part. I stand corrected. Eric auteur@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:51:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: [none] Hi all, OK a few words on the Manscape thing and MIDI in general. The first Wire record to use sequencing and sampling was "The Ideal Copy". Most of the drums came from drum machines playing back samples of Robert with live hi-hats. Tracks like "Ahead" and "Madman's Honey" had complete sequenced rythmn sections. The sounds were more like "live" instruments so as not to make it so obvious that they were still at least nominally a "rock band" at that point. Athough those that know can quite clearly see the machines at work in "The Ideal Copy", in fact "A Bell Is A Cup" is more sequenced! Only "Boiling Boy" was played as a "band" number. Tracks like "The Queen Of Ur", "Pieta", "Follow The Locust", "Freefalling Divisions", and even "Kidney Bingoes" to an extent, were made inside the sequencer and fleshed out by individual band members. Up to "Manscape" the computers and modules were seen as part of the recording process. Then they started to write directly into the sequencer as a band. The system became G & B acccesing with Casio Midi guitars and Robert programming on a sequencer. A lot got lost in translation with Manscape. Dave Allen was a fine record producer, but his brand of confusion added to an already complex situation. I think the process of "The First Letter" has been well descibed. It was put together like "Manscape" only without Robert, but also crucially it was done in a programming suite not a rehearsal room. By that point both G & B had their samplers. Basicly G & B's performances were recorded and edited or Colin's pieces were recorded and G & B had to jam over them. Colin did most of the editing but he wasn't really very pleased with the mixes. (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "What a blessing that so much of humanity is able to be alive at the same time as myself." -Cecil Adams ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V1 #32 ******************************