From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V1 #2 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, February 26 1998 Volume 01 : Number 002 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Thanks, Miles! ["JH3" ] Re: Thanks, Miles! [Aaron Mandel ] Re: Thanks, Miles! [Andrew N Westmeyer ] i'm just making inquiries [Miles Goosens ] Re: i'm just making inquiries ["Jeffrey with 2 f's Jeffrey" ] Re: i'm just making inquiries [Miles Goosens Subject: Thanks, Miles! Testing, 1-2-3... I was thinking of starting a Wire Discussion List myself, actually, but our server here is so unreliable I didn't think it would be responsible of me. And I probably wouldn't have time to deal with any problems that came up, anyway. So does anyone want to buy my copy of Colin Newman's "Bastard" off of me, or trade me something for it? I just don't like it, period. Call me a Philistine - I'm actually something of a Wire completist, but this CD is really just taking up space. John H. Hedges One of the "154 is better than Pink Flag" crowd ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:54:34 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Thanks, Miles! On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, JH3 wrote: > Call me a Philistine - I'm actually something of a Wire completist, but > this CD is really just taking up space. i'm with you there. i still owe my copy to the esteemed Jeff Norman, who will hopefully refrain from kicking my ass once he hears the record and assesses how little impact it would have had on his life weeks ago. the last set of ex-Wire projects is 0 for 3, in my eyes. maybe He Said Omala has some redeeming qualities. anyone heard The Haring? i didn't want to risk the money, and the radio station didn't get a promo. a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:36:07 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: Re: Thanks, Miles! Oh dear! I'm afraid that I'm in a crowd of one when I say that the members of the band formerly known as Wire are getting *better* with age! Excerpts from mail: 25-Feb-98 Re: Thanks, Miles! by Aaron Mandel@hcs.harvard > On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, JH3 wrote: > > Call me a Philistine - I'm actually something of a Wire completist, but > > this CD is really just taking up space. > > i'm with you there. Have you heard the "Voice" single? Or what do you think about the "Spaced In" track (a personal favorite of mine)? True, Bastard is a little too electronic for me as whole, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. One thing about Wire is that, when the individual albums come out, they're not widely accepted, but upon retrospection, people say that these guys were ahead of their time. > the last set of ex-Wire projects is 0 for 3, in my eyes. maybe He Said > Omala has some redeeming qualities. 0 for 3? I count Oracle, Immersion, HALO, HSO, and that Gilbert/Hampson/Kendall thing; that doesn't include any of the "solo" stuff. Oracle and Immersion are very similar, but HALO and HSO are totally different. The HALO album is nearly a pop album and I'm actually suprised that it wasn't a "breakthrough" album. HSO is quiet, bass-y stuff. On the upcoming "Matching Crosses" album, there is actually a Roy Orbinson cover! > anyone heard The Haring? i didn't want to risk the money, and the radio > station didn't get a promo. Yup. It's a spoken word album, so there really isn't any music. "Children" is a track from an earlier single, and it's just his parents telling stories. "The Haring" track is mostly a lot of sound bits Bruce taped together. File it under "audio art" rather than "music". (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu queue@asu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "What a blessing that so much of humanity is able to be alive at the same time as myself." -Cecil Adams ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:42:39 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: i'm just making inquiries aaron said: >On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, JH3 wrote: >> Call me a Philistine - I'm actually something of a Wire completist, but >> this CD is really just taking up space. > >i'm with you there. i still owe my copy to the esteemed Jeff Norman, who >will hopefully refrain from kicking my ass once he hears the record and >assesses how little impact it would have had on his life weeks ago. BASTARD didn't change my life or anything, but I wasn't asking it to. aaron and I have been through this on Loud-Fans, but I knew before I bought BASTARD that it was an electronic instrumental album, and as such, it entertained me quite a bit. Those who don't care for electronic music would do well to skip it, tho. Andrew offers: >Oh dear! I'm afraid that I'm in a crowd of one when I say that the >members of the band formerly known as Wire are getting *better* with age! I'm not as up on recent WMO products as Andrew, but now is as good a time as any to state my own prejudices concerning the Wire catalog... IMO the band made four five-star, as-good-as-anything-else-ever albums: CHAIRS MISSING, 154, THE IDEAL COPY, and A BELL IS A CUP. And if you deduced from that statement that I liked the second version of Wire just as much as the first, you'd be absolutely right. Again, the fault lines seem to lie along the synth&drums/anti-synth&drums line, but I find the first two albums of the '80s Wire to be as inspired and fascinating as anything they've ever done. I think every song on A BELL IS A CUP has spent a minimum of two weeks solid buzzing around my brain... Discuss. later, Miles ============================================================== JASON WILKINS (of Neilson Hubbard): Victor's was just starting to happen, then it burned down. BILL LLOYD: That's a pretty good metaphor for the Nashville rock scene. -- NASHVILLE SCENE, Jan. 15, 1998 Miles Goosens outdoorminer@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles ============================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:58:16 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeffrey with 2 f's Jeffrey" Subject: Re: i'm just making inquiries On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Miles Goosens wrote: > Again, the fault lines seem to lie along the synth&drums/anti-synth&drums > line, but I find the first two albums of the '80s Wire to be as inspired > and fascinating as anything they've ever done. I think every song on A > BELL IS A CUP has spent a minimum of two weeks solid buzzing around my > brain... Hmmm...actually I'd agree pretty well w/Miles on my fave Wire albums - but I don't think the split is pro/anti synth - since there were, in fact, lots of synths on CM and 154. I'd say it's more of a polish/anti-polish issue (uh...that lower-casing is significant. No ethnic slurs here) - the mark II material has a kind of sheen that the earlier material lacks. Even the most glistening moments of synth on 154 & CM are just a little bit off, and give off an icy, metallic feel rather than the warmer, glisteny sound of IC and BIAC material. But the other Wire divide is greater, I think - even though it's less clear in terms of time. And that would be the song/non-song divide. Much of the later work (and nearly all the post-'85 solo work) seems less interested in song structure and more interested in either sound itself or other, more complex, less obvious structures. (This shows up early on, actually, in some of D&E's more abstract excursions.) I dunno - I have to be in a rather paritcular mood to listen enjoyingly to the stuff that almost seems all texture, structured only by sheer duration or slow evolution. Don't start me off... - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n Department of English http://www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee :: PLEASE! You are sending cheese information to me. I don't want :: :: it. I have no goats or cows or any other milk producing animal! :: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::--"raus" :: ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:15:17 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Thanks, Miles! On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Andrew N Westmeyer wrote: > Have you heard the "Voice" single? nope. > One thing about Wire is that, when the individual albums > come out, they're not widely accepted, but upon retrospection, people > say that these guys were ahead of their time. doing a drum'n'bass album in 1997 is not ahead of any time. i mean, i don't dislike it for its unoriginality, but nor does it feel innovative to me. > 0 for 3? sorry, i meant each one's most recent release, which i was perhaps incorrectly using to refer to Bastard, In Esse and He Said Omala. like i said, HSO may have some growing-on-me power. a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:57:30 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: i'm just making inquiries At 10:58 PM 2/25/98 -0600, you wrote: >Hmmm...actually I'd agree pretty well w/Miles on my fave Wire albums - but >I don't think the split is pro/anti synth - since there were, in fact, >lots of synths on CM and 154. I'd say it's more of a polish/anti-polish >issue I can accept the part about synths playing a large role on CHAIRS MISSING and 154, but most of the time they seem to simply add texture, not drive the songs themselves, which I think a close listen to the alternate versions of CM and 154 songs on BEHIND THE CURTAIN will confirm. But in a lot of the '80s stuff, the synths and treated drums are right up front, and I think this is an instant turn-off for a lot of people -- I mean, you look at Jim DeRogatis' entry in the '90s TROUSER PRESS guide, and you can tell that the very idea of giant synths and big dance-y drums meant that he wouldn't give the '80s albums a real shot. (Jim Greene's entry in the earlier TP guides lines up much more closely with my own views.) >But the other Wire divide is greater, I think - even though it's less >clear in terms of time. And that would be the song/non-song divide. Much >of the later work (and nearly all the post-'85 solo work) seems less >interested in song structure and more interested in either sound itself or >other, more complex, less obvious structures. Actually, if you read the Wire section of my personal page (see my sig for the url), I've come close to saying the same thing -- interested in "sound itself" is a key point which I omitted in my previous post. Wire always was interested in sound as such (in fact, three of my all-time faves, Scott Miller, R. Stevie Moore, and Wire, are all interested in sound in a way that only sometimes encompasses music), but yeah, in the '80s stuff, the sounds and textures are everything. I've always thought the experimentation of the between-the-Wires stuff, especially Dome and Gilbert's THE SHIVERING MAN, paid off in spades when they got back together >I dunno - I have to be in a rather paritcular mood to listen enjoyingly to >the stuff that almost seems all texture, structured only by sheer duration >or slow evolution. I can't get the "all texture" stuff OUT of my brain -- it does have to work on you longer than, say, the PINK FLAG songs, but ohmygosh, once it's in, it's in. Sometimes "The Boiling Boy" becomes my whole life, whether I'm listening to it or not. The more I listen to the texture-driven stuff, the more its tentacles wrap themselves around my cerebellum. later, Miles ============================================================== JASON WILKINS (of Neilson Hubbard): Victor's was just starting to happen, then it burned down. BILL LLOYD: That's a pretty good metaphor for the Nashville rock scene. -- NASHVILLE SCENE, Jan. 15, 1998 Miles Goosens outdoorminer@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles ============================================================== ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V1 #2 *****************************