From: owner-hotcakes-digest@smoe.org (hotcakes-digest) To: hotcakes-digest@smoe.org Subject: hotcakes-digest V1 #101 Reply-To: hotcakes@smoe.org Sender: owner-hotcakes-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-hotcakes-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk hotcakes-digest Tuesday, December 29 1998 Volume 01 : Number 101 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Call me Count Correctula [qusar@mindspring.com] No, Call me Count Correctula ["Adel Perkins" ] No, really, let me be Count Correctula [qusar@mindspring.com] AH!!! [qusar@mindspring.com] RE: AH!!! [Margarita Leal ] AH!!! CHOO!!! ["Adel Perkins" ] Re: AH!!! ["Adel Perkins" ] Re: AH!!! [qusar@mindspring.com] No, dear. I insist! ["Adel Perkins" ] Re: No, dear. I insist! [qusar@mindspring.com] Re: AH!!! [qusar@mindspring.com] Re: No, dear. I insist! ["Adel Perkins" ] Re: No, dear. I insist! ["Adel Perkins" ] Carly Simon Arista Page [Whydja@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:46:34 -0500 From: qusar@mindspring.com Subject: Call me Count Correctula But something was said that I have to come correct about. For starters, "Two Hot Girls" is _not_ on _Have You Seen Me Lately_. It is on _Coming Around Again_. And while, when I read this, I BAULKED at the thought that it was seen as frivolous, I couldn't help but be moved to point out the significance of this song. "Two Hot Girls" strength lies in the fact that it is a bildungsroman song -- a song about growing up. The narrator in it becomes aware of her sexuality in this song -- that is just genius! "Thanks for introducing us said Dwight, polite and I waved goodnight/ I wondered why it wasn't me/ I guess its just that the times not right" and the opening "It happened last night, we were feeling adventurous/ we put on our heels and went out for a walk/ more for a drink and to have a few eyes on us/ Jenny and I slipped in town for some talk" this is just pure brilliance. How could you _not_ like it? BTW, hello! My name is Quentin, a 23 year old in South Carolina who has been hooked on Carly since I was 15 when our chorus did "Let the River Run." I am an english major with a emphasis in Writing and I must say that Carly has made an incredible impact on me and my writing as well as my sensibilites. She writes with such a careful, lyrical pen that I am awarded by her time and time again. I have almost everything she has done -- almost. I am missing _Anticipation_ and _Spy_. Does anyone know anything about Carly's opera: Romulus' Hunt? Is it still around? *smiles and hugs* I like being around a bunch of CarlyPhiles! Q ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:23:36 PST From: "Adel Perkins" Subject: No, Call me Count Correctula <<"Two Hot Girls" strength lies in the fact that it is a bildungsroman song -- a song about growing up.>> Dear Count: If you are going to sling around a word like "Bildungsroman," you should at least use it correctly. A "Bildungsroman" refers to a type of book, not song. The word "roman" in French means "novel." Hence, "roman a clef," which is a novel which presents historical facts as fiction. Further, I don't recall anyone saying they didn't like the words of "Two Hot Girls." I think the comment was that they didn't like the music. Welcome to the board! Adel - ----Original Message Follows---- From: qusar@mindspring.com To: Subject: Call me Count Correctula Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:46:34 -0500 But something was said that I have to come correct about. For starters, "Two Hot Girls" is _not_ on _Have You Seen Me Lately_. It is on _Coming Around Again_. And while, when I read this, I BAULKED at the thought that it was seen as frivolous, I couldn't help but be moved to point out the significance of this song. "Two Hot Girls" strength lies in the fact that it is a bildungsroman song -- a song about growing up. The narrator in it becomes aware of her sexuality in this song -- that is just genius! "Thanks for introducing us said Dwight, polite and I waved goodnight/ I wondered why it wasn't me/ I guess its just that the times not right" and the opening "It happened last night, we were feeling adventurous/ we put on our heels and went out for a walk/ more for a drink and to have a few eyes on us/ Jenny and I slipped in town for some talk" this is just pure brilliance. How could you _not_ like it? BTW, hello! My name is Quentin, a 23 year old in South Carolina who has been hooked on Carly since I was 15 when our chorus did "Let the River Run." I am an english major with a emphasis in Writing and I must say that Carly has made an incredible impact on me and my writing as well as my sensibilites. She writes with such a careful, lyrical pen that I am awarded by her time and time again. I have almost everything she has done -- almost. I am missing _Anticipation_ and _Spy_. Does anyone know anything about Carly's opera: Romulus' Hunt? Is it still around? *smiles and hugs* I like being around a bunch of CarlyPhiles! Q ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 02:37:45 -0500 From: qusar@mindspring.com Subject: No, really, let me be Count Correctula >Dear Count: > >If you are going to sling around a word like "Bildungsroman," you should >at least use it correctly. A "Bildungsroman" refers to a type of book, >not song. The word "roman" in French means "novel." Hence, "roman a >clef," which is a novel which presents historical facts as fiction. *giggles* I am using it correctly. It is nice that you can break down its orgins -- I know french as well. And a "roman a clef" is a novel of note. "Bildungs" is german for education and "roman" is french for novel. Therefore, a bildungsroman is a novel about how a teen, normally, learns about the world. But that is my defination and I realize that won't be accepted. So, defined, it is : a novel about the moral and psychological growth of a character. However, that defination was only pertainent early in the century when music was hardly written the way it is now. Bildungsroman is much more a genre now than anything. Most books, like those of Salinger and Zindel and Joyce's "Potrait of the Artist as a Young Man" that are called "juvenile literature" (again, a recent distinction) are called that of bildungsroman. (and here is a leap) And so you are right to think that this term can only be applied to literature. But if you think of the form of "Two Hot Girls" it is written like an epic poem because it has a plot and is written in elevated prose. Therefore, it jumps the hurdle of literature. And since, something needs not be a novel to fall into a genre of writing, it qualifies as a bildungsroman through the core of its message. Thanks for my welcome! Q >Further, I don't recall anyone saying they didn't like the words of "Two >Hot Girls." I think the comment was that they didn't like the music. > >Welcome to the board! > >Adel > > >----Original Message Follows---- >From: qusar@mindspring.com >To: >Subject: Call me Count Correctula >Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:46:34 -0500 > >But something was said that I have to come correct about. > >For starters, "Two Hot Girls" is _not_ on _Have You Seen Me Lately_. It >is >on _Coming Around Again_. And while, when I read this, I BAULKED at the >thought that it was seen as frivolous, I couldn't help but be moved to >point >out the significance of this song. > >"Two Hot Girls" strength lies in the fact that it is a bildungsroman >song -- >a song about growing up. The narrator in it becomes aware of her >sexuality >in this song -- that is just genius! > >"Thanks for introducing us said Dwight, polite and I waved goodnight/ I >wondered why it wasn't me/ I guess its just that the times not right" > >and the opening > >"It happened last night, we were feeling adventurous/ we put on our >heels >and went out for a walk/ more for a drink and to have a few eyes on us/ >Jenny and I slipped in town for some talk" > >this is just pure brilliance. How could you _not_ like it? > >BTW, hello! My name is Quentin, a 23 year old in South Carolina who has >been >hooked on Carly since I was 15 when our chorus did "Let the River Run." >I am >an english major with a emphasis in Writing and I must say that Carly >has >made an incredible impact on me and my writing as well as my >sensibilites. >She writes with such a careful, lyrical pen that I am awarded by her >time >and time again. > >I have almost everything she has done -- almost. I am missing >_Anticipation_ >and _Spy_. Does anyone know anything about Carly's opera: Romulus' Hunt? >Is >it still around? > >*smiles and hugs* I like being around a bunch of CarlyPhiles! > >Q > > > > > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 02:48:37 -0500 From: qusar@mindspring.com Subject: AH!!! Also, the word for history is "l'histoire" -- not clef. But, on a ligher note, I wonder how biographical "Two Hot Girls" is. Did it really happen this way sometime in her life, her daughter, her sister, her mother? It annoys me that Carly is so unsung. Of course, this is a reaction after reading _Bitch: In Praise of Difficult Women_ by Elizabeth Wurtzel where she lauded most women in the business, but a backwards compliment went to Carly. . . *saddened* Quentin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:14:25 -0600 From: Margarita Leal Subject: RE: AH!!! Hello, Quentin: Please feel very WELCOMED to this discussion list. I am not the leader here; anyway I wanted to welcome you. I am mexican and live here in Monterrey, Mexico, so my language is Spanish. Nevertheless, I have studied English, German and French (bit of Latin also). My point here is not a question of who is right ... I just want to wish everybody a wonderful new year! Frohe Weinachten und alles gute im Neuen Jahr! is that correct? Ich hab fast alles vergeßen... When one doesn't practice one forgets, isn't it? You Quentin seem to like a lot literature and you may be gifted to read bildungsromans oder liebesromans oder Goethes poesie, viellicht. I am very happy that a young guy like you likes Carly's opus. In this season I've heard in a local radio station "The Night Before Christmas" and immediatelly called to ask for more Carly's songs to be included in their airings. Well, do you know what happened? I had to go in the flesh to the station and give away one of my Carly Simon Greatest Hits CDs so they could program her music... It is not a lost because they started playing her music a little more often. I feel glad. Besides, I saw a TV preview of the film "Madeline" which is soon comming to movie theatres here and, as I knew through this discussion board / mailing list, there is a song sung by Carly in this film. I'll let you know as soon as I watch the film. Fare thee well my e-firends. We'll keep in touch. God bless you all and take it easy this December the 31st.!!! So long, auf wiedersehen, au revoir, hasta luego... Margarita. On Tuesday, December 29, 1998 1:49 AM, qusar@mindspring.com [SMTP:qusar@mindspring.com] wrote: > Also, the word for history is "l'histoire" -- not clef. > > But, on a ligher note, I wonder how biographical "Two Hot Girls" is. Did it > really happen this way sometime in her life, her daughter, her sister, her > mother? > > It annoys me that Carly is so unsung. Of course, this is a reaction after > reading _Bitch: In Praise of Difficult Women_ by Elizabeth Wurtzel where she > lauded most women in the business, but a backwards compliment went to Carly. > . . > > *saddened* > > Quentin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:28:48 PST From: "Adel Perkins" Subject: AH!!! CHOO!!! <> This is simple fact is quite correct. Odd, though, I don’t recall anyone saying it wasn’t. When one has a fluent familiarity with another language, one does not expect phrases to translate with lock-step equivalents – especially a language as florid as French. <> Being someone who praises so-called difficult women with alacrity, I am curious to know what was said about Carly, backhandedly or otherwise. What a coy little thing you are for not sharing. Fondly, Adel ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:29:46 PST From: "Adel Perkins" Subject: Re: AH!!! *giggles* *saddened* Dear Quentin (Crisp perchance?): I am verily dizzy tracking the vicissitudes of your temperament, dear. Do take something to calm yourself at once. Fondly, Adel - ----Original Message Follows---- From: qusar@mindspring.com To: "Adel Perkins" , Subject: AH!!! Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 02:48:37 -0500 Also, the word for history is "l'histoire" -- not clef. But, on a ligher note, I wonder how biographical "Two Hot Girls" is. Did it really happen this way sometime in her life, her daughter, her sister, her mother? It annoys me that Carly is so unsung. Of course, this is a reaction after reading _Bitch: In Praise of Difficult Women_ by Elizabeth Wurtzel where she lauded most women in the business, but a backwards compliment went to Carly. . . *saddened* Quentin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 03:50:31 -0500 From: qusar@mindspring.com Subject: Re: AH!!! Adel: - - >I am verily dizzy tracking the vicissitudes of your temperament, dear. To quote Carly about the *giggle* vicissitudes of my temperment: "If only I hadn't been born with these sad eyes. Perhaps I'm too shy to too bold." *lick* Quentin (Potato Chip) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:51:28 PST From: "Adel Perkins" Subject: No, dear. I insist! Dear Heart: Allow me to correct you. (Truly, I don’t mind at all!) While a “roman a clef” may indeed be a novel of note, such is not always the case (and, alas, it is seldom so). It is always the case, however, that a “roman a clef” is a novel that presents historical facts in the guise of fiction. Further, I really did want to follow you on your exuberant leap from logic (truly, I did!), but “Two Hot Girls” has very little in common with an “epic poem.” Would that having a “plot” and “elevated prose” were enough to qualify. However, an “epic poem” is required to be fairly lengthy, involve a perilous adventures and center on a hero, not a drunk in a bar who failed to “get lucky.” You are most welcome for my heartfelt “welcome”! Fondly, Adel ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 04:12:47 -0500 From: qusar@mindspring.com Subject: Re: No, dear. I insist! For a song, it is quite lengthy. And I stand by my "leap." However, you cannot debate the fact that "Two Hot Girls" works as a bildungsroman as a genre. .. can you. and if you think it is just about that, you have truly failed to listen to this song. . . Your's Q ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 04:39:42 -0500 From: qusar@mindspring.com Subject: Re: AH!!! Marguita: Thanks for the welcome! When I was a music student, I was exposed to other languages and, having a natural love for words and their power, my interest in them was like that of English. I am somewhere near fluent in French and I can read Spanish with some level of comprehension and German as well. . . I love it! >My point here is not a question of who is right ... I just want to wish >everybody a wonderful new year! Same here. And I am sorry if I came off as a little know it all, that was not my intention. But "Two Hot Girls" is not from "Have You Seen Me Lately?" which was the point and perhaps I should have stopped there. >When one doesn't practice one forgets, isn't it? Yes, with most anything, except bike riding :) >You Quentin seem to like a lot literature and you may be gifted to read >bildungsromans oder liebesromans oder Goethes poesie, viellicht. I am very >happy that a young guy like you likes Carly's opus. *blush* Thank you. >In this season I've heard in a local radio station "The Night Before Christmas" Have you heard Amy Grant's cover? This song is from the soundtrack: This is my Life -- wonderful work. I _love_ "Love of my Life". >immediatelly called to ask for more Carly's songs to be included in their >airings. Well, do you know what happened? I had to go in the flesh to the >station and give away one of my Carly Simon Greatest Hits CDs so they could >program her music... It is not a lost because they started playing her >music a little more often. I feel glad. ROCK ON, GIRLFRIEND!!!!! That is _so_ awesome. Greatest Hits was the second I brought when I was like 16. I listened to it on a trip to High Point, NC that Christmas. I was in love. It is not a loss, but a victory! there is a song sung by Carly in this film. I'll let you know as soon >as I watch the film. Really? What song is that? Happy New Year's to you, too. To you all! Quentin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:44:49 PST From: "Adel Perkins" Subject: Re: No, dear. I insist! <> Yes, two more words and it would be confused with the Iliad! <> First of all, “Bildungstrom” – as a genre – does not apply to songs. Second of all, there is nothing about “Two Hot Girls” that necessarily applies to a young protagonist (something necessary for a Bildungstrom). The song could easily be about two 50 year old women going out on the town. Even the line “Maybe he thinks I’m too young or TOO OLD” indicates that this is probably not about a very young girl. The use of the word “girls” is not instructive in this regard because Carly as a woman in her 50’s now is probably apt to refer to going out with the “girls.” So, no, I don’t agree with you. I do, however, think that the song is lyrically very strong (so I agree with you in that respect). Kisses, Adel - ----Original Message Follows---- From: qusar@mindspring.com To: "Adel Perkins" , Subject: Re: No, dear. I insist! Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 04:12:47 -0500 For a song, it is quite lengthy. And I stand by my "leap." However, you cannot debate the fact that "Two Hot Girls" works as a bildungsroman as a genre. .. can you. and if you think it is just about that, you have truly failed to listen to this song. . . Your's Q ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:54:05 PST From: "Adel Perkins" Subject: Re: No, dear. I insist! Dear Quentin: I am deeply offended by your message. I don't ever recall someone using such a rude word as "wop" (how terribly racist!) to refer to me before. I really would like to start anew. Let's not resort to racist invective in speaking to one another. Let's bury the hatchet and concentrate on how much we love Carly! OK? Fondly, Adel - ----Original Message Follows---- From: qusar@mindspring.com To: "Adel Perkins" Subject: Re: No, dear. I insist! Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 05:43:42 -0500 I am thinking you are un-educated, stupid, and uninformed beyound belief! Were you not such a wop, perhaps we would have communicated more sucessfully. Don't forget, it was you who said the song in question was from "Have You Seen Me Lately?" an album that came out three years and about four albums after "Two Hot Girls" did. I think you are the one full of shit and, standing by my word, stupid, but also hypocritical and short-sighted. No, Love you. Quentin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:55:31 EST From: Whydja@aol.com Subject: Carly Simon Arista Page I wrote a note to the folks at ARISTA asking them to update Carly's Home Page since it just dwells on her illness. They said they would be updating it in Early 99. Tom ------------------------------ End of hotcakes-digest V1 #101 ******************************