From: owner-headline-girl-digest@smoe.org (headline-girl-digest) To: headline-girl-digest@smoe.org Subject: headline-girl-digest V4 #184 Reply-To: headline-girl@smoe.org Sender: owner-headline-girl-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-headline-girl-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk headline-girl-digest Thursday, August 16 2001 Volume 04 : Number 184 Today's Subjects: ----------------- girl versions (my review) ["stephanie ~" ] RE: girl versions (my review) [Jason Schneider ] RE: girl versions (my review) [mark crislip ] RE: girl versions (my review) [Jason Schneider ] NEC: photography question [Laura Robeson ] Re: photography question ["James McGarry" ] Re: NEC: photography question [Paul Schreiber ] Re: girl versions (my review) ["Lyric Man" ] ec: miss missy's #9 [Superball Nine ] emm v. tori [Jordan Carter ] Emm on Anti-Hit list... ["Tab Siddiqui" ] Re: NEC: photography question [Greg Teltschik ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 07:40:23 From: "stephanie ~" Subject: girl versions (my review) to my surprise i got my copy of girl versions yesterday. so i finally got to hear emm's version of 'for what reason' that i've been dying to hear. death cab is one of my favorite bands. anyway, i think emm's version will grow on me. i really like 'big bang baby' though as well as 'song 2'. and of course what she's done with 'crazy train' and 'pour some sugar on me' is just amazing. the other songs i've never heard the original versions of so it's hard to tell what emm has brought to the song. but i wish 'i'll stick around' was on the album, now especially since i accidently deleted the mp3 i had of it:( i'm really interested to hear tori amos' cover album. i really like her but i don't know about the songs she chose to cover. i think girl versions will reign supreme:) ~stephanie ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 'and i once heard a wise man say, she wore a raspberry beret'- those peabodys _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:18:30 -0400 From: Jason Schneider Subject: RE: girl versions (my review) i've heard the title track from tori's 'girl version' album and it's pretty good. i was skeptical at first but now that i've heard how she's handled it i think her disc will be creepin onto my shelf right beside emm's... :-) jay > ---------- > From: stephanie ~ > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 3:40 AM > To: headline-girl@smoe.org > Subject: girl versions (my review) > > to my surprise i got my copy of girl versions yesterday. so i finally got > to > hear emm's version of 'for what reason' that i've been dying to hear. > death > cab is one of my favorite bands. anyway, i think emm's version will grow > on > me. i really like 'big bang baby' though as well as 'song 2'. and of > course > what she's done with 'crazy train' and 'pour some sugar on me' is just > amazing. the other songs i've never heard the original versions of so it's > > hard to tell what emm has brought to the song. but i wish 'i'll stick > around' was on the album, now especially since i accidently deleted the > mp3 > i had of it:( > > i'm really interested to hear tori amos' cover album. i really like her > but > i don't know about the songs she chose to cover. i think girl versions > will > reign supreme:) > > ~stephanie > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > 'and i once heard a wise man say, she wore a raspberry beret'- those > peabodys > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:38:04 -0400 From: "Gretchen Corl" Subject: RE: girl versions (my review) I've listened to 3 of the songs....the title track, the Eminem cover, and the Neil Young cover....I don't care for any of the original songs (the one's I recognize, anyway), so I thought her versions might be better...I was disappointed...plain and simple. I thought they were nothing special. Tori tickets go on sale tomorrow at 10am here in DC and I'm still wishy-washy about going. It does help that Rufus is opening, I suppose. gretchen >From: Jason Schneider >To: headline-girl@smoe.org, "'stephanie ~'" >Subject: RE: girl versions (my review) >Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:18:30 -0400 > >i've heard the title track from tori's 'girl version' album and it's pretty >good. i was skeptical at first but now that i've heard how she's handled it >i think her disc will be creepin onto my shelf right beside emm's... :-) > >jay > > > ---------- > > From: stephanie ~ > > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 3:40 AM > > To: headline-girl@smoe.org > > Subject: girl versions (my review) > > > > to my surprise i got my copy of girl versions yesterday. so i finally >got > > to > > hear emm's version of 'for what reason' that i've been dying to hear. > > death > > cab is one of my favorite bands. anyway, i think emm's version will grow > > on > > me. i really like 'big bang baby' though as well as 'song 2'. and of > > course > > what she's done with 'crazy train' and 'pour some sugar on me' is just > > amazing. the other songs i've never heard the original versions of so >it's > > > > hard to tell what emm has brought to the song. but i wish 'i'll stick > > around' was on the album, now especially since i accidently deleted the > > mp3 > > i had of it:( > > > > i'm really interested to hear tori amos' cover album. i really like her > > but > > i don't know about the songs she chose to cover. i think girl versions > > will > > reign supreme:) > > > > ~stephanie > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > 'and i once heard a wise man say, she wore a raspberry beret'- those > > peabodys > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 07:23:59 -0700 (PDT) From: mark crislip Subject: RE: girl versions (my review) i don't have a review... i haven't got the cd! you know, i don't really like tori amos. i don't know why, i really don't. superficially, she and emm are very similar: brilliant petite balladists whose real strength isn't the catchiness of the refrain but the entirety of the narrative. maybe it's because i find tori's music pseudo-intellectual and slightly pretentious. she's a brilliant songwriter, but the songs are highbrow and often a little preachy. sometimes i get the sense that she believes that she's smarter than the rest of us. emm's music tends to be rather more derived from intuition as well as deep emotional feelings, needs and drives. Her songs are melancholic but idealistic: what happens to an intelligent but romantic heart when faced with profound personal chaos. Let's face it, emm's music is often viscerally painful to listen to, and I've never gotten that from tori's music. Mark. ===== "Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death" http://smirky.com/ Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:36:41 -0400 From: Jason Schneider Subject: RE: girl versions (my review) i tend to think that tori and emm are quite alike when it comes to their cryptic lyrical content and story within a story approach whereby it's up to the interpretation of the listener. it's difficult to say whether or not tori is pretentious and self-centered especially since emm is a much more accessible artist in that we've met her and hung out with her and know the girl behind the music. i tend to think that artistic people in general are self-centered (me being one of them) but this stems from the intravertedness of the art process itself. being retrospective and capturing it in words/music or any other medium, then having others identify with it and in some cases get fanatical about it tends to inflate one's ego. depending on the person that is. it's also the perspective you are taking. if one hadn't met emm one might find her just as pretentious as any other musician/artist. it's all about how informed you are and how you perceive the situation. nothing against anyone mentioned or not but this is my opinion on the on-going chain. as art imitates life so does life imitate art and that just becomes a totally subjective point of view. we all see things differently even if we are looking at the same painting. that's all i have to say, for now. jay > ---------- > From: mark crislip > Reply To: smirky@smirky.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:23 AM > To: Gretchen Corl; headline-girl@smoe.org > Subject: RE: girl versions (my review) > > i don't have a review... i haven't got the cd! > > you know, i don't really like tori amos. i don't know > why, i really don't. superficially, she and emm are > very similar: brilliant petite balladists whose real > strength isn't the catchiness of the refrain but the > entirety of the narrative. > > maybe it's because i find tori's music > pseudo-intellectual and slightly pretentious. she's a > brilliant songwriter, but the songs are highbrow and > often a little preachy. sometimes i get the sense that > she believes that she's smarter than the rest of us. > > emm's music tends to be rather more derived from > intuition as well as deep emotional feelings, needs > and drives. Her songs are melancholic but idealistic: > what happens to an intelligent but romantic heart when > faced with profound personal chaos. Let's face it, > emm's music is often viscerally painful to listen to, > and I've never gotten that from tori's music. > > Mark. > > ===== > "Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death" > http://smirky.com/ > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:54:35 -0400 From: "Robert Tittel" Subject: Re: girl versions (my review) << emm's music is often viscerally painful to listen to, and I've never gotten that from tori's music. >> I respectfully disagree with exceptions. I think Tori's older music IS viscerally painful to listen to. You can't not be moved by songs like "Winter", "Mother", and "Me and a Gun". Songs like that are some of the most beautiful and moving songs I've ever heard. "Tear in your hand" is another. The first two albums are full of the kind of songs that Emm now writes that made me love this genre of music in the first place. While I am a bigger fan of Emm now than I EVER was of Tori, Tori is the one that started it all for me as far as the genre of emotional female singer/songwriters go. I do however agree with your comment about Tori becoming much more cryptic and pretentious with her songwriting. While Emm is a much more straightforward songwriter, whose music is much more accessible, Tori is much more experimental and continues to add elements of electronica and other new sounds to her CDs. I don't necessarily think this is a good thing. I was much more of a fan when she wrote simpler music, like Emm, with just her and a piano. Unfortunately, I feel Tori will never again be "just the girl and her piano", as Emm is on the brilliant "Girl Versions", I continue to buy her CD's and support her in the hope that maybe, just maybe, one day, she will revert to the old style and release another piece of art like "Little Earthquakes". This is not to take away to from any of her newer albums and say they are not art, its just they are a different kind of art and I prefer the older art. In the meantime, we have Emm, and Girl Versions is indeed wonderful. I got my CD this past weekend, and I have to admit that "Straight to Hell" is one of my favorite songs on the CD, as well as "For what reason", although the entire CD is brilliant. Makes me wish I was sitting in that auditorium in Sarnia Library again. How priviledged we all were to be a part of that night. back to lurking... Rob ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JERICHO TWO Do you have a T1/DSL/Cable connection? Then listen to my internet radio station, Jericho Two, at: http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=piggio New adds this week: Anne E. DeChant - From the Fields Rayanne - Great Lengths Jessica Weiser - The Deconstruction of David's Wall The Eels - Mr. E's Beautiful Blues Creeper Lagoon - Dreaming Again Jonatha Brooke - Linger Heather Nova - London Rain Remy Zero - Hermes' Bird Melissa Ferrick - Fear and Time & Particular Place to Be R.E.M. - The Lifting Steven Malkmus - The Hook Joseph Arthur - Invisible Hands Death Cab for Cutie - Song for Kelly Huckaby Weezer - Photograph Lapdog (feat. former members of Toad the Wet Sprocket) - See You Again Mike Farley Band - Iowa and many more.... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - -----Original Message----- From: mark crislip To: Gretchen Corl ; headline-girl@smoe.org Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:24 AM Subject: RE: girl versions (my review) >i don't have a review... i haven't got the cd! > >you know, i don't really like tori amos. i don't know >why, i really don't. superficially, she and emm are >very similar: brilliant petite balladists whose real >strength isn't the catchiness of the refrain but the >entirety of the narrative. > >maybe it's because i find tori's music >pseudo-intellectual and slightly pretentious. she's a >brilliant songwriter, but the songs are highbrow and >often a little preachy. sometimes i get the sense that >she believes that she's smarter than the rest of us. > >emm's music tends to be rather more derived from >intuition as well as deep emotional feelings, needs >and drives. Her songs are melancholic but idealistic: >what happens to an intelligent but romantic heart when >faced with profound personal chaos. Let's face it, >emm's music is often viscerally painful to listen to, >and I've never gotten that from tori's music. > >Mark. > >===== >"Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death" >http://smirky.com/ >Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger >http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:10:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Robeson Subject: NEC: photography question I know there's at least a couple awesome photographers on this mailing list, so I'm hoping you won't mind me using HG for my own selfish reasons by asking a photo. question. I'm going to a concert next week and I want to take pictures.. but my flash is broken so I'm wondering if using a high speed film will compensate for the lack of flash? I'm hoping I could still get away with it as long as the film is good. I'm not exactly sure how the lighting will be since I've never seen a show in the place it's at. I'm assuming it'll be just like a regular club though, definitely not a huge light show or anything. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, thanks!! :) ~Laura ===== ~http://www.laurarobeson.com~ AOL Instant Messenger: Trinity51682 ***** "we're all rehearsing for the presidency, I always wanted to be commander-in-chief of my *one* woman army.." - -ani d. Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:14:23 -0400 From: "James McGarry" Subject: Re: photography question - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laura Robeson" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 12:10 PM > I'm going to a concert next week and I want to take pictures.. but my > flash is broken so I'm wondering if using a high speed film will > compensate for the lack of flash? I'm hoping I could still get away with > it as long as the film is good. It totally depends on the lighting and the brightness of the lens in your camera. Your best bet might be a really fast film like a 3200 (for B&W I recommend the Ilford film in that range - or for colour, Fuji Superia) or a more commercially available Kodak Max 800. If there's enough light and you are close enough, this should work fine. Is this just a point and shoot or can you change settings like shutter speed and F-Stop? If its just a point and shoot, I'd try the 800 and pray. You'll likely get at least one good shot, try to time your shot for when your subject is well-lighted. James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:21:02 -0400 From: Paul Schreiber Subject: Re: NEC: photography question Laura Robeson wrote: >I'm going to a concert next week and I want to take pictures.. but my >flash is broken so I'm wondering if using a high speed film will >compensate for the lack of flash? I'm hoping I could still get away with >it as long as the film is good. > >I'm not exactly sure how the lighting will be since I've never seen a show >in the place it's at. I'm assuming it'll be just like a regular club >though, definitely not a huge light show or anything. I'm not one of the aforementioned photographers, but a couple of general hints: * have higher-speed film (400, 800 in colour; you can go higher for b/w). * if you have a tripod [or *really* steady hands], you can fiddle with (lengthen) the exposure to let more light in. this can help a lot. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:17:10 -0400 From: "Lyric Man" Subject: Re: girl versions (my review) hi...first time posting... just to put forth my opinion(for what it's worth), my faves are 'waiting room,' 'crazy train'(these two tracks often on repeat play), 'straight to hell,' 'straight to you.' i've heard the original fugazi and ozzy songs, and i think i like emm's versions better...seems a little more gut-wrenching. richard, relieved to find out that fugazi wasn't singing, "i am a pastry boy..." ;-) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:03:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Superball Nine Subject: ec: miss missy's #9 look who's #9. http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicAntihit/aug15_anti-can.html looks like emm is making a big bang, baby. bad pun, i know, chris ===== "life is a game and true love is a trophy" Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:42:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jordan Carter Subject: emm v. tori See...even though I say, "Let's all play fair, and let both of them release what they want and how they want", I know that in my own mind- it won't work that way. I love love love emm. Of course, not in that crazy-psychopath way, but enough. I'm sure that whatever she releases will be perfect. So with that said, I feel as though I am biased. I admire and respect Tori Amos, and feel as though she HAS in fact represented her part of the music scene very well. I like a good number of her songs, also. But, in my own humble opinion, Emm will always outshine Tori. Just because. :) For all the reasons stated in the previous emails, and...just because she's cuter. So there. Now, I just hope that my best friend (an avid Tori-freak) and I (an avid Emm-freak) will not clash too much in the months to come. :) Dani Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:16:53 From: "Tab Siddiqui" Subject: Emm on Anti-Hit list... Well, we always knew he had great taste in music, but Jam! music editor John Sakamoto has done it again by choosing Emm's cover of STP as #9 in this week's Anti-Hit List: http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicAntihit/aug15_anti-can.html (Let the Tori comparisons begin? um, hello, let's not forget who's covers album came out *first*, eh? ;-)) 'Girl Versions' hasn't left my stereo in the two days since I've had it. And the STP cover is my favourite right now as well. :-) - - Tab :) P.S. Be on the lookout for Emm features in tomorrow's Toronto Star (What's On section) and tomorrow's VIEW Magazine (Hamilton area weekly - if anyone's going to the Casbah show, let me know, 'cause I need a copy!)... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:26:21 +0100 From: Greg Teltschik Subject: Re: NEC: photography question I'll share a couple of tips as well: - - The built-in flash in most point-and-shoots (and some 35mm SLRs) is only good for about 15 feet or so. Beyond that, it doesn't really do much besides make you camera feel better (but potentially underexpose the shot as well). A good professional flash that mounts to a hot shoe or off the camera can better this distance. - - If the exposure time is more than a 10th of a second (give or take a little), it's very hard to keep the camera still enough to not blur the image. Sometimes the force of pressing the button is enough to blur the image. If you can't use a tripod, brace up against something solid like a wall and hope for the best. - - Unless there's no one between you and the stage, it's best to not use a flash. If there are people in front of you, the flash tends to bring out the detail in the back of their heads. This is one case where you don't want to see it (trust me). - - Get high speed film. Anything lower than 800 really won't help that much. The Fuji Superia 800 has a really tight grain. The Kodak 800 isn't quite as good in my opinion. By grain, I mean the film equivalent of "pixels." As film gets higher in speed, the grain tends to go down, which makes your photos appear "grainy." Also, if you get anything higher than 800, check to make sure your camera will support it. Some cameras can't handle film about a certain speed. If you're not sure, you might want to get a very short roll and try it first before you actually shoot something important. - - If you have a 35mm with exchangeable lenses, get the "fastest" lens that you can. You want a lens rated to a f/2.4 or lower. Normally, this means no zoom lenses unless you really want to shell out the bucks. Basically, these lenses have better optics that capture more of the light. You can thus get faster shutter speeds. As an example, I took numerous photos on ASA 100 speed film in the Louvre with nothing more than a f/1.2 50mm lens, no flash, and all the pictures came out great. Note that there are places that rent lenses. - - Another advantage to not using flash: security can't find you as easily. - - As James mentioned, pay attention to the light and shadows. In a low light situation, this makes all the difference in the world. - - For best results after taking the pictures, get them developed at a professional place. You'll pay extra, but the quality of the developing is better than you get just by running to Wal-mart. Don't get me wrong, Wal-mart does a really great job, but I trust professionals more than I trust some high-school kid. Professional developers replace their chemicals more often, and spend more time getting the color right on each print than the 1-hour places. Also, they can usually provide more services. As an example, Wal-mart takes about 2 weeks minimum for slide developing because they have to send them out. The place I go can do slides in 4 hours and a Photo CD in 24. They also could make me a huge poster of Emm Gryner or whatever in 24-48 hours. - -Finally, pay attention to the lighting at the show, particularly the hue. I've got lots of red tinted pictures, and I've seen yellow-tinted ones as well. Good balanced lighting makes for better results. Greg At 09:10 8/15/2001 -0700, Laura Robeson wrote: >I know there's at least a couple awesome photographers on this mailing >list, so I'm hoping you won't mind me using HG for my own selfish reasons >by asking a photo. question. > >I'm going to a concert next week and I want to take pictures.. but my >flash is broken so I'm wondering if using a high speed film will >compensate for the lack of flash? I'm hoping I could still get away with >it as long as the film is good. > >I'm not exactly sure how the lighting will be since I've never seen a show >in the place it's at. I'm assuming it'll be just like a regular club >though, definitely not a huge light show or anything. > >Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, thanks!! :) > > >~Laura > > >===== >~http://www.laurarobeson.com~ >AOL Instant Messenger: Trinity51682 >***** >"we're all rehearsing for the presidency, I always wanted to be >commander-in-chief of my *one* woman army.." >-ani d. >Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger >http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ Greg Teltschik gteltschik@mindspring.com ------------------------------ End of headline-girl-digest V4 #184 ***********************************