From: owner-headline-girl-digest@smoe.org (headline-girl-digest) To: headline-girl-digest@smoe.org Subject: headline-girl-digest V3 #142 Reply-To: headline-girl@smoe.org Sender: owner-headline-girl-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-headline-girl-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk headline-girl-digest Wednesday, May 31 2000 Volume 03 : Number 142 Today's Subjects: ----------------- The Napster debate starts. (was Re: NEC but read anyway.. Metallica sucks.) [Laura Robeson ] RE: nappstir ["Julian C. Dunn" ] Re: NEC but read anyway.. Metallica sucks. ["W. L. Estes" ] RE: nappstir [Michael Keast ] Re: napstirr ["Julian C. Dunn" ] Re: napstirr ["Andrea" ] RE: napstirr [Michael Keast ] Re: napstirr ["James McGarry" ] one more napster comment ["courtneylove@dork .com" ] Re: OAC: Girl's Room tour hits T.O.! [Laura Robeson ] chelle's living room show! ["digital violet" ] NEC (well...sorta): quick q ["Jess :D" ] Re: napstirr ["James McGarry" ] OAC/BST: Summer Gigs... ["Tab Siddiqui" ] Re: headline-girl-digest V3 #141 ["roberto w" ] Re: headline-girl-digest V3 #141 ["roberto w" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 21:46:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Robeson Subject: The Napster debate starts. (was Re: NEC but read anyway.. Metallica sucks.) Jess I got all 3 of your songs from Napster, just wanted you to know that.. Which reaffirms Napster's original intent to help *benefit* upcoming artists that need more exposure. Now if I'm not mistaken, bootlegging has been going on since the beginning of live music and it will continue to go on. For musicians like Tara MacLean and Jewel, just to name a couple artists, it's been a huge part of getting word out about their music. But now that everything's digital and easier to trade people are throwing fits about it because they don't get paid for every single friggin song.. which is funny because I *thought* music was for the fans and the artist's love for playing music and how they *wanted* people to listen to them and appreciate their music. I actually watched a TalkBack Live episode about this and someone made a very valid point, that most Napster users (with the exception of some college students) have regular modems that are 56.6bps at most. Mine is 31200 at best. Meaning yeah, they might take some time out to download a single song, but the majority of users are certainly not going to be online all day trying to download the entire album. If they like something enough, they're gonna want the CD still and not just have it on their computer. That's what I do at least, because I don't prefer to listen to music on my computer, I'd much rather have the CD to listen to in my room or the car. People will always buy CDs. In fact music sales have been rising still, even with the presence of Napster. Yeah there's always the exceptions who have the cable modem or T3 and a CD burner who get it all free. But I'll bet that most are like me and just download either indie stuff or maybe a popular single every now and then that they like but not enough that they would have gone out and payed for if it wasn't there for free (whew, long sentence, hope it made sense)... plus who has the memory capacity to store tons of albums in mp3 format?? I sure don't. So yeah, I can see how the music industry a$$----s can want some regulation, but some of the stuff they're attacking is insane. Let me throw in some Emm content: I'm glad Emm's not crying because a couple of us got Parting Song and is now going to sue for $100,000 for each song. I already thought the world was greedy, but this really is just pathetic. I wish everyone would keep their original motive for wanting to be in the music business and stop worrying about the money. They need to just get over themselves and play with the millions and billions of dollars they already have. Okay I've ranted some more.. yell at me if you must but I hope most of you will agree with what I've said. ~Laura ===== AIM screenname: Trinity51682 Homepage: http://www.angelfire.com/oh/laurasmusicpage *and please check out my newest site* www.leahjacobs.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 03:10:21 -0400 From: "Andrea" Subject: nappstir I have to agree with most of what Devon and Laura have had to say re: Napster and mp3z. They are both great tools for discovering new musicians and even new kinds of music. Most of us on this list are huge music fans and don't burn or download an entire CD without buying a legit copy. However, not everyone is as cool as us. I used to believe that mp3z only helped the industry and that most people who d/l'd stuff also owned legic music by the artists. But one when a good friend of mine admitted that she'd never buy another CD again I realize what a real threat mp3z could be. People may have a slow connection now, but it won't be long until we all have speedy cable connections (or better) and the ablity to download entire albums within a few minutes. It is scary to think that our loved CD and CD stores could be extinct some day soon. If I were a record company, I'd be scared and try to embrace the technologies rather than fight it...but I don't sympathize with Metallica. NP: "Will the real Slim Shady please stand up?" What would an Eminem, M 2 M and Emm collaboration sound like? ~Andy the Girl see me... http://home.istar.ca/~andyc/me "The price of a memory is the memory of the sorrow it brings" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 07:31:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Julian C. Dunn" Subject: RE: nappstir On 30-May-2000 Andrea wrote: > I have to agree with most of what Devon and Laura have had to say re: > Napster and mp3z. They are both great tools for discovering new musicians > and even new kinds of music. Most of us on this list are huge music fans > and don't burn or download an entire CD without buying a legit copy. > However, not everyone is as cool as us. I used to believe that mp3z only > helped the industry and that most people who d/l'd stuff also owned legic > music by the artists. But one when a good friend of mine admitted that > she'd never buy another CD again I realize what a real threat mp3z could be. > People may have a slow connection now, but it won't be long until we all > have speedy cable connections (or better) and the ablity to download entire > albums within a few minutes. It is scary to think that our loved CD and CD > stores could be extinct some day soon. If I were a record company, I'd be > scared and try to embrace the technologies rather than fight it...but I > don't sympathize with Metallica. I've always taken the position that the only "artists" that Napster/GNUtella/Freenet will hurt are those that are churned out by the record company as completely artificial creations, e.g. Backdoor Boys, Britney, Christina Aguilera, etc. The reason is that they are totally singles-based artists, and this is exactly what Napster, etc. is good for -- distributing one or two songs. Why are people going to buy Britney's new album when they can just get that awful single online for free? Genuine artists engender real respect and dedication from their fans, and this in turn translates to "the fans aren't going to get online and rip off the artist by downloading the entire album on Napster". Oh, by the way, I read a statistical projection in a computer industry journal a few days ago, saying that by the year 2003, the majority of computer users will still be using a dialup modem connection. Something to think about when considering the so-called proliferation of Napster. - - Julian NP: EmmNEmm - Public :-) [ Julian C. Dunn - jdunn@aquezada.com WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/ ] [ FuE exfe94 a+++ Ifte/slc lonca r- ps++ bs+ t++/*t C+++$/C! w+++ p7 LF+++ ] [N++/N! cd350 pr++ g+++ S-/S *x++ Fa+++/Fa$/Fa! m1 b+ fc+++/ E>+ rl-- *d s!] [ "and any love remaining, i can't share anymore - ] [ 'cause by the time it gets to you, it's a little war" - emm gryner ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 08:58:39 -0400 From: "W. L. Estes" Subject: Re: NEC but read anyway.. Metallica sucks. Distributing songs in mp3 format from Metallica's albums violates their copyright. That doesnt change just because you have the albums. Read up on copyright law. Know your rights and responsibilities. Get the laws changed. Use a more inteligent service for sharing music files. But don't bitch at Metallica for fulfilling their legal obligation to protect their trademark/copyright. - --Will ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:47:47 -0400 From: Michael Keast Subject: RE: NEC but read anyway.. Metallica sucks. > Yet another reason why mainstream music sucks and I will not > support it anymore. I'm going to sell their CDs tomorrow, > I don't care how much they give me there's no way > I'm gonna keep them. Speaking of selling CDs...if artists are so upset about the royalties they lose when people download their songs from Napster, how long before they start going after used music stores as well? Used CD stores are hugely popular these days, and they're actually rather similar to Napster in that artists don't make a cent when you buy one of their CDs used. I know some artists (Garth Brooks comes to mind) have expressed their opposition to the used CD industry, but I don't think anything as drastic as the Metallica lawsuit has been done yet. What would happen if an artist tried to sue anyone who's ever sold or bought one of their CDs used...now that's a scary thought! ************************************************ Mike Keast (michael.keast@giffels.com) http://www.geocities.com/dtswd/ "I'll never be any saner I'm a born entertainer" ************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 09:37:22 -0700 From: "Mark Urban" Subject: new journal entry May 29, 2000 Here I am, in Brooklyn at Holly Palmer Singer's ...we've spent the afternoon singing La-la's to Let's Dance and now we're off to her trumpet player's record release soiree. His names is Cuong Vu and he's fab. A few of you have been asking about the side band. It's called Nurse, and we're planning to dress up in nurse's outfits (all 4 of us...Megan, Mary, Holly and me...) and sing our songs about medicine. Sexual Easy Rock, I believe would be the right category. Some of our wonderful hits include, "Just Say AHHHH", "Resuscitate Me Baby" and "Visiting Hours Are Over (But I'll Still Visit You)"...anyway, we'll play a show soon, and you'll all be invited. Aside from that, I wrote song called "The Eighties Are Over" which I'm quite fond of...but the next morning I could wake up and it might sound like the band Asia. Oh I hope if you live near Parliament Hill you'll come to FreshFest in our nation's capital...I'll be playing there with some groovy incarnation of a band...July 16 in Ottawa. Yee-haw. Love those summer festivals... My clarinet playing is coming along very well in case you were wondering. No word on whether the duke will love it. Adios amigos... Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://my.lycos.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:39:54 -0400 From: Michael Keast Subject: RE: nappstir > I've always taken the position that the only "artists" that > Napster/GNUtella/Freenet will hurt are those that are churned > out by the record company as completely artificial creations, > e.g. Backdoor Boys, Britney, Christina Aguilera, etc. The reason > is that they are totally singles-based artists, and this is exactly > what Napster, etc. is good for -- distributing one or two songs. > Why are people going to buy Britney's new album when they can > just get that awful single online for free? Sorry if the following sounds too argumentative, but this post is bringing out the devil's advocate in me... Correct me if I'm wrong Julian, but it sounds like you're saying that you're OK with Napster because it only hurts artists you don't like, which is a line of reasoning that I would have to disagree with. As someone who listens to a lot of music that most people on this list would probably consider "awful" (e.g. I'll bet I'm one of the few headliners who'll be rushing out to buy the new Iron Maiden album today, and I also have a soft spot for a lot of pop music...including the new Britney Spears single, so sue me), I don't find that drawing a line between "artificial" and "genuine" artists and saying that it's OK to hurt one but not the other is a particularly convincing argument...and who gets to decide where that line gets drawn, anyway?Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with Napster, I think it's an excellent way for lesser-known artists to expand their audience, and I believe that its negative impact on artists like Metallica is a lot less severe than they're making it out to be...I just don't think that saying "it's OK because it will only hurt teen-pop artists" is the best way to go about defending it. ************************************************* Mike Keast (michael.keast@giffels.com) http://www.geocities.com/dtswd/ "I'll never be any saner I'm a born entertainer" ************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:11:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Julian C. Dunn" Subject: Re: napstirr Michael wrote, quoting me: >> I've always taken the position that the only "artists" that >> Napster/GNUtella/Freenet will hurt are those that are churned >> out by the record company as completely artificial creations, >> e.g. Backdoor Boys, Britney, Christina Aguilera, etc. The reason >> is that they are totally singles-based artists, and this is exactly >> what Napster, etc. is good for -- distributing one or two songs. >> Why are people going to buy Britney's new album when they can >> just get that awful single online for free? > Correct me if I'm wrong Julian, but it sounds like you're saying that > you're OK with Napster because it only hurts artists you don't like, > which is a line of reasoning that I would have to disagree with. I said no such thing. I would never attempt to enforce my musical tastes upon others, either by saying that a particular kind of music or a particular artist is "bad", or by suggesting that it's good to hurt artists by stealing their music from Napster. In fact, as far as Napster goes, I don't think they have a leg to stand on with regard to copyright laws, and neither do any of the other Napster alternatives. Napster is good for many things, including spreading the music of lesser-known artists, but it is best at that which it was designed to do -- steal copyrighted material. Now I know someone is going to argue with me about what Napster's original purpose was, and tell me that it was designed to "facilitate trading of music" without regard to whether the material is copyrighted or not, but the point is, most music that people trade out there IS illegally traded material, and the creators of the product must have known that when they wrote the program. Should they be held liable for copyright infringement as a result of providing a mere "conduit", as they claim, for copyrighted material to flow freely? That's a matter for the courts to decide. What I *am* saying is that I believe different types of music engender different amounts of loyalty to artists that produce that type of music. For instance, I am far less likely to rip off Emm Gryner than I would be to rip off Britney Spears. It's exactly the singles-oriented artists that Napster et. al. is going to hurt, and THAT is why the record companies are so upset. Napster hits them where it hurts -- it hits them where they have invested most of their money. - - Julian - -- Julian C. Dunn ASIC Validation Group, Matrox Graphics Inc. Tel: (905) 944-4900 x7006 Fax: (905) 944-4909 "If you continue running Windows, your system may become unstable." => Windows 95 BSOD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:44:50 -0400 From: "Andrea" Subject: Re: napstirr > Should they be held liable > for copyright infringement as a result of providing a mere "conduit", as > they claim, for copyrighted material to flow freely? That's a matter for > the courts to decide. I have a question...if things like Napster, IMesh, etc. are liable for falicitating the trading of illegal mp3z, what about things like AIM and ICQ, or even the entire Internet as a whole? A lot of illegal music is traded through those means. I'm confused. NP: "just play my tune, mr. moon" ~Andy the Girl see me... http://home.istar.ca/~andyc/me "Fuck 'em all I say, they'll be sorry when the star buries the girl." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:47:14 -0400 From: Michael Keast Subject: RE: napstirr > > Correct me if I'm wrong Julian, but it sounds like you're > > saying that you're OK with Napster because it only hurts > > artists you don't like, which is a line of reasoning that I > > would have to disagree with. > > I said no such thing. I would never attempt to enforce my > musical tastes upon others, either by saying that a particular > kind of music or a particular artist is "bad", Glad to hear it...my apologies, I must have misunderstood the intent of your original post, sorry about that...I'm just very sensitive to this sort of thing because I'm so used to taking flack for the "uncool" music that I listen to, which pisses me off to no end, musical snobbery is a MAJOR pet peeve of mine. ************************************************** Mike Keast (michael.keast@giffels.com) http://www.geocities.com/dtswd/ "I'll never be any saner I'm a born entertainer" ************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:11:30 -0400 From: "James McGarry" Subject: Re: napstirr - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrea" Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 2:44 PM > I have a question...if things like Napster, IMesh, etc. are liable for > falicitating the trading of illegal mp3z, what about things like AIM and > ICQ, or even the entire Internet as a whole? A lot of illegal music is > traded through those means. I'm confused. AIM and ICQ have a primary use as a communication tool, their use for copyright infringement is incidental to that use. c.f. a phone could be used to broadcast music, etc. but it's primary use is as a communications tool as well. To continue with the phone analogy, if you designed a phone which autodetected music as opposed to voice, and which, say dialed a numer or preset numbers and then transmitted that music, then it's primary purpose would not be general communication, but could be said to be designed to appropriate music. Napster specifically only "sees" MP3 files, only propogates MP3 files, client software can list song titles and artists. It's primary function is not that of a general communication tool, but one designed for a specific task. If Napster saw all files and allowed you to share only certain files regardless of file type, they might've gotten away with "common carrier" status i.e. they are facilitiating the transfer of MP3 files, by making it so easy. James. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:12:47 EDT From: "courtneylove@dork .com" Subject: one more napster comment i agree with you completely will. thank you. and might i add, yes a lot of people DO download and burn full albums complete with colour printed piracy liner notes. so okay there, you can walk around with your little gold cds, ugh. but i'll continue to work my zellers job and buy 3 cds per paycheck. and the musicians will continue their job of making music that shouldnt be stolen! bootlegs and singles mp3s are different. bootlegs are shows, something not released by the band, but a way to enjoy a live show nonetheless. love miss priya >Distributing songs in mp3 format from Metallica's albums violates >their copyright. That doesnt change just because you have the >albums. Read up on copyright law. Know your rights and >responsibilities. Get the laws changed. Use a more inteligent service >for sharing music files. But don't bitch at Metallica for fulfilling >their legal obligation to protect their trademark/copyright. > >--Will ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:03:02 PDT From: "Tab Siddiqui" Subject: OAC: Girl's Room tour hits T.O.! Hey, folks... Haven't seen this mentioned as yet, but looks like Tara and the Girls Room tour are headed to Toronto July 25, venue TBA. Cool! :-) Lotsa Tara in July for T.O. folks - she's also doing Blue Rodeo's Stardust Picnic July 8 and 9... - - Tab :) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:30:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Robeson Subject: Re: OAC: Girl's Room tour hits T.O.! Yeah, the July 25th date was originally set for Cleveland, which me & Andrea were all psyched about and now it's been moved!! How poopy is that? Ah well.. that's life I guess. ~laura P.S. I just finally got the soundtrack for All Over Me.. anyone else have it? It's pretty awesome.. my favorite songs are the Murmurs and the Geraldine Fibbers one right after. ===== AIM screenname: Trinity51682 Homepage: http://www.angelfire.com/oh/laurasmusicpage *and please check out my newest site* www.leahjacobs.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:06:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Robeson Subject: NEC How to unban yourself.. HammyCD@aol.com (sorry I forgot your name!) sent this to me and it worked! At first I was just able to erase my old account but then I tried making a new account and that was banned as well. I thought it just didn't work but it turns out I didn't erase all the keys I was supposed to (#3) which is the most important part. When you do the search, make sure you only check "keys" under Look At because I had all 3 checked and for some reason it didn't work. I have no clue what I just did, but it worked and that's the important part. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the I.P. address because you don't give any other information to Napster that they could check.. that I know of...? So yay, my new account HeadlineGrrl is working. Haha to Metallica. Anyway, here's what I was sent: - ------- Here is how to unban yourself from napster:- I did it! Here's how to unban yourself while still using Beta 6! 1. You'll probably need to create a new account, so click on Start, Run, type in regedit. 2. Navigate to this key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\software\Napster. On the right side of the window after you click on the Napster folder, delete the key that says "CurrentUser". Also delete any folders below the Napster folder. (i.e. click on the plus sign and remove all those folders that have usernames.) Note you can also just delete this complete napster folder!! 3. Now do a search (ctl-f) for these things one at a time: 35D38C13-1434-AB7E-003483943341AA A1AD8C13-1383-5343-DCC38E43FF0AAE CAD8C813-1F34-1B3E-00CEAE43FF0AAD Delete every instance that you find of these keys. Hit F3 to continue searching. There are about 3 or 4 instances of each of these keys. 4. Reboot your system. (just in case.) And much much thanks again to HammyCD :) (P.S. You're on my hotlist, hope you don't mind) ~Laura ===== AIM screenname: Trinity51682 Homepage: http://www.angelfire.com/oh/laurasmusicpage *and please check out my newest site* www.leahjacobs.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:42:23 -0400 From: "digital violet" Subject: chelle's living room show! Hey kids As always, the required apology for the crosspost. I just wanted to remind everybody that chelle, of Aquezada fame, will be playing a show at my house in South Jersey on Saturday, July 22nd. It will probably be an afternoon show, around 3....but this may change. I've mentioned before, I am a short drive from Philadelphia and New York City. If you haven't had a chance to see chelle perform yet, you are in for a treat! And if you have seen her, please come to hear some of her new songs that will be featured on a future EP! I am also talking to some other people about performing, and as soon as they are confirmed I'll announce them as well! I promise a good time to be had by all! We have a big back yard, a pool, and I'm hoping to make a good party out of it. Everybody should come and we can have the fumblers meet the headliners! That is all:) Shannon thatsparklychick@att.net ************************* Follow Your Bliss Joseph Campbell ************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:10:53 EDT From: Songbird22@aol.com Subject: Re: The Napster debate starts. (was Re: NEC but read anyway.. Metallica sucks.) laurarobeson@yahoo.com writes: > Jess I got all 3 of your songs from Napster, just wanted you to know that.. > Which reaffirms Napster's original intent to help *benefit* upcoming artists > that need more exposure. Thanks! Napster is good for indie artists, yes... In some ways, I have used Napster in the same way I would those little music listening stations at HMV, Barnes and Noble, etc -- I listen to a song or two and decide if I like the album. CDs out here are expensive -- $16 for something new. That's crazy. Normally I buy used or through the net but sometimes you can't find it... So, I have seriously hundreds of CDs that I bought and then hated, but I'm too lazy to return it or didn't feel like it, lost the recipt, whatever...[By the way, I know several EXTREMELY rich kids that buy albums at HMV, burn copies at home and then return the disc later] Things are changing. I hear a song by Vertical Horizon on the radio and kind of like it, I come home and get the single off Napster (or wherever!) and decide if I want it or not. A few years ago making mix tapes was huge, especially on the mailing lists... Hell, then people would tape shows and make CDRs of them and send them out... or even sell them! Technology is changing... so is the way we listen to and buy music. The Internet and programs like Napster could serve to benefit the industry, and in some ways can hurt it. The Internet is a huge promotional tool, as labels are now learning... I have to say that most of my sales are done via the 'net, most of my promotion is done that way and I've built a huge fanbase... It's amazing what you can do... If I was on a major label I would want b-sides of songs or unreleased songs and clips of songs up on my site... That's what brings people in and keeps them devoted/interested, as well as provides good rapport... Yes, I understand the copyright laws, etc... Yes, some artists are losing money which is unfortunate... There are also performance rights (ascap, bmi, etc) that I believe are being violated too...not sure, have to read through more of my ascap literature.... But bootlegging and all of that are going to happen. It's going to exist whether or not suits in the music industry like it or not, so they can either embrace it and learn to use it to their advantage, or they can fight it... I have no problem with people making mp3s of my songs to share (note: share, not sell) as well as make mix tapes, etc... But I hear about things like some people making CDRs of the entire CD and giving them away and that pisses me off... as well as people who tape live shows and make it an "official" bootleg and then make tons of money off of it.... Geez, look at all the promotion Metallica is getting from this!! Right in time for their big summer tour... hmmmm... Ahh... there are SO many aspects of this whole argument and so many ways to look at it. Anyway, sorry this is rambling and incoherent... I'm having serious family issues right now which are occupying all of my thoughts. :( Jess www.jessicaweiser.com | mp3.com/jessweiser "music is the lamb that made a lion out of me" - esthero ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:25:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Julian C. Dunn" Subject: Re: napstirr On 30-May-2000 James McGarry wrote: > AIM and ICQ have a primary use as a communication tool, their use for > copyright infringement is incidental to that use. c.f. a phone could be used > to broadcast music, etc. but it's primary use is as a communications tool as > well. To continue with the phone analogy, if you designed a phone which > autodetected music as opposed to voice, and which, say dialed a numer or > preset numbers and then transmitted that music, then it's primary purpose > would not be general communication, but could be said to be designed to > appropriate music. Napster specifically only "sees" MP3 files, only > propogates MP3 files, client software can list song titles and artists. It's > primary function is not that of a general communication tool, but one > designed for a specific task. If Napster saw all files and allowed you to > share only certain files regardless of file type, they might've gotten away > with "common carrier" status i.e. they are facilitiating the transfer of MP3 > files, by making it so easy. So James, do you think that a tool like FreeNet -- which allows trading of any kinds of files -- will be better off, legally speaking? I mean, you could argue that in the broad scope of things, it'll just be a conduit for anything illegal - -- illegal MP3s, illegal videos, pirated software, etc. etc. - - Julian [ Julian C. Dunn - jdunn@aquezada.com WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/ ] [ FuE exfe94 a+++ Ifte/slc lonca r- ps++ bs+ t++/*t C+++$/C! w+++ p7 LF+++ ] [N++/N! cd350 pr++ g+++ S-/S *x++ Fa+++/Fa$/Fa! m1 b+ fc+++/ E>+ rl-- *d s!] [ "and any love remaining, i can't share anymore - ] [ 'cause by the time it gets to you, it's a little war" - emm gryner ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:03:39 -0400 From: "Jess :D" Subject: NEC (well...sorta): quick q hey guys :) just a small question...would it seem crazy/obsessive/etc. if I were to delay my departure date by two days so i can catch Emm performing at the Fresh Fest? I'm seriously considering it now..I REALLY wanna see Emm. my parents will probably think I'm crazy or something, wanting to delay my flight a couple days just so i can see Emm...well, it's a thought... jess ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:11:40 -0500 From: "James McGarry" Subject: Re: napstirr - ----- Original Message ----- From: Julian C. Dunn Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 8:25 PM > So James, do you think that a tool like FreeNet -- which allows trading of any > kinds of files -- will be better off, legally speaking? I mean, you could argue I think they have a much better shot at a 'common carrier' defense. It could be easily argued since they don't scan for specific types of files, that they aren't specifically targetting music or software, that they are just a conduit for traffic. c.f. an ftp server, esp. a gui one. > that in the broad scope of things, it'll just be a conduit for anything illegal > -- illegal MP3s, illegal videos, pirated software, etc. etc. Ditto phones, paper, diskettes, zip disks, anyway you can record something :-) ... can also be used to steal it. Theoretically, I could pass you a few reems of paper with binary info which would allow you to scan in a song... are the paper or printer manufacturers liable because they didn't take an adequate precaution? Now, if you designed a scanner, specifically for reading in those reems and converting them to song format... It's a thorny issue anyway you cut it... I think the final outcome would depend on the judge and who had the better paid lawyers... ;-) James. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:40:32 PDT From: "Tab Siddiqui" Subject: OAC/BST: Summer Gigs... Hello all you lovely people... I've been keeping track of all the local (i.e. Toronto area) summer gigs of note, and it seems there's going to be so many coming up that I thought I'd pass on the list in case anyone may have missed some of the dates (and so you can start filling in those daytimers now ;-))... - - Tab :) * Trish Concepcion & the Erin Smith Band - June 1, C'est What * Tory C's Tom Waits show with Sarah Slean, others - June 5, C'est What * Indigo Girls with guest Sarah Harmer, Molson Amphitheatre, June 16 * July 1 - Melanie Doane, Maestro, Colin James - Downsview Park * July 3 - Sarah Slean, Harbourfront * July 8 - Celebrate Toronto streetfest - Damhnait Doyle, Ivana Santilli * July 8 - Open Door Women's Festival of Music - Mad Violet/Zoebliss, Martina Sorbara, Tegan and Sara, Andrea Florian, others - The 360 * July 16 - Emm Gryner, Fresh Fest, Ottawa * July 25 - "Girl's Room Tour" with Tara MacLean, Shannon McNally, Amy Correia (venue TBA) * July 29 & 30 - Hillside, Guelph - Dar Williams, Feist, The New Deal * August 11, Taste of the Danforth fest - Ivana Santilli, The New Deal * August 12, Taste of the Danforth - Cowboy Junkies * August 13, Taste of the Danforth - Jim Cuddy Band ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:02:13 PDT From: "roberto w" Subject: Re: headline-girl-digest V3 #141 heeeeaaaay! >Okay I'm done ranting, sorry but I know you all love indie music and >can >understand my frustration hopefully. Thank God for indie. i dunno laura.. you are a sweet girl and everything but i still have to disagree with that.. the tracks on the cd belong to metallica and they have the right to sell those tracks to people if they want. when you take part in the napster scheme what you are doing is selling those tracks that dont belong to you for LESS than the rightful owners are trying to sell them for. why pay whatever a cd costs at a store when you can pay $0 right from your own home? i dont understand how ppl can think that doesnt hurt the artist financially. maybe people dont really think about what they are doing a lot of the time.. just because so many other people are doing it doesnt mean that it isnt wrong. if all that happens to you is that you get excommunicated from napster, well you are getting off light. >Interested to hear thoughts on the issue... music industry vs. >Napster... i think it is really sad that it has to be this way.i think mp3 technology is amazing and the napster system is fantastic. however (as you well know) it costs a whole lot of money to record an album and produce it and distribute it and also to promote it. to take the tracks of that album without paying for them and then give them to countless others so they dont pay for them either is just totally wrong in my opinion. what i do think napster is great for is trading live recordings. i wish the labels would relax their stance on that. i know someone with a "big record deal" that has sold a couple hundred thousand discs. he thinks it is totally cool for fans to record the shows. the fans are as much a part of the show as the performers and have every right to take a piece of it home with them. he also thinks it is great that fans use the net to connect with each other especially over great distances (halifax-vancouver like) and to trade those live recordings. warner doesnt like it much when he says stuff like that in interviews though. it is also cool when artists give away 2 or 3 tracks from an album as mp3s so that ppl can see what the album sounds like and hopefully decide to buy it. another groovy thing is to give away alternate & live or acoustic versions of songs. (like i see at the jessica weiser mp3.com site) >Jessica, who sees 3 of her songs on Napster all the time and loves it! but would you still love it if you record an album and try to sell it at shows and on the net hoping to make back the money you spent recording it.... but then a few people put the whole thing on napster for free? >helpful to artists and actually INCREASE sales. when somone reccomends thousands and thousands of university students have fast net access in their dorm rooms. they put a few hundred illegally downloaded mp3s on their computers and it's very convenient and totally free. many of them will not buy a single cd the entire time they are in school because of this. (hi andrea :) >i'll buy the cd. that's pretty much how i really started liking emm > >gryner. i thats great and i totally understand your point of view but i think most ppl using napster are just liking the free music. >i'm throwing out here) that 95% or so of people who have mp3's, also >own >that artist's cd(s). id say that 95% of ILLEGAL MP3 (there are millions of legal mp3 files floating around. i hate to lump them all in with the rest) users have CDS. but i think if someone wants to download a bootlegged mp3 version of a song taken from a certain album it is ONLY because they dont own it. why else would they download it? >i don't agree with people dling whole cd's for their >collection and never buying them in the store or whatever. i think that is what most heavy users of illegal mp3s do. why pay for something when you can download it for free then delete it if you dont like it or later get bored of it. most of these people dont care about having the "real" cd with liner notes etc as much as music addicts like the people on this list. also it is really easy and cheap to burn a cd if you need something portable. and easy enough to get the lyrics off the net too. >people who like to have the "real" cd, with liner notes and all. all but there are far too many people like i described above doing heavy trading and it is costing the recording industry (that includes the artists) big time. they wouldnt be trying to fight it so hard if it was increasing their sales. >cuz music industry sucks ass. record labels are financially driven corporations for the most part. especially the 4 major ones. as such they can be pretty cut-throat and decidedly unwarm and fuzzy environments. and yes that does suck ass. >well, i'm sure she may want it (more money and all, tighter >sound,etc) i really hope she doesnt. and as for the sound.. emm can make a lot of money doing things the way she does now if she keeps at it. (more than the average major signee) and will eventually be able to spend all the money she needs to or really wants to on production. >but due to all this crap, i hope she stays indie =) i think a lot of us do. well ciao4now roberto@soundcheck dot ca ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:02:13 PDT From: "roberto w" Subject: Re: headline-girl-digest V3 #141 heeeeaaaay! >Okay I'm done ranting, sorry but I know you all love indie music and >can >understand my frustration hopefully. Thank God for indie. i dunno laura.. you are a sweet girl and everything but i still have to disagree with that.. the tracks on the cd belong to metallica and they have the right to sell those tracks to people if they want. when you take part in the napster scheme what you are doing is selling those tracks that dont belong to you for LESS than the rightful owners are trying to sell them for. why pay whatever a cd costs at a store when you can pay $0 right from your own home? i dont understand how ppl can think that doesnt hurt the artist financially. maybe people dont really think about what they are doing a lot of the time.. just because so many other people are doing it doesnt mean that it isnt wrong. if all that happens to you is that you get excommunicated from napster, well you are getting off light. >Interested to hear thoughts on the issue... music industry vs. >Napster... i think it is really sad that it has to be this way.i think mp3 technology is amazing and the napster system is fantastic. however (as you well know) it costs a whole lot of money to record an album and produce it and distribute it and also to promote it. to take the tracks of that album without paying for them and then give them to countless others so they dont pay for them either is just totally wrong in my opinion. what i do think napster is great for is trading live recordings. i wish the labels would relax their stance on that. i know someone with a "big record deal" that has sold a couple hundred thousand discs. he thinks it is totally cool for fans to record the shows. the fans are as much a part of the show as the performers and have every right to take a piece of it home with them. he also thinks it is great that fans use the net to connect with each other especially over great distances (halifax-vancouver like) and to trade those live recordings. warner doesnt like it much when he says stuff like that in interviews though. it is also cool when artists give away 2 or 3 tracks from an album as mp3s so that ppl can see what the album sounds like and hopefully decide to buy it. another groovy thing is to give away alternate & live or acoustic versions of songs. (like i see at the jessica weiser mp3.com site) >Jessica, who sees 3 of her songs on Napster all the time and loves it! but would you still love it if you record an album and try to sell it at shows and on the net hoping to make back the money you spent recording it.... but then a few people put the whole thing on napster for free? >helpful to artists and actually INCREASE sales. when somone reccomends thousands and thousands of university students have fast net access in their dorm rooms. they put a few hundred illegally downloaded mp3s on their computers and it's very convenient and totally free. many of them will not buy a single cd the entire time they are in school because of this. (hi andrea :) >i'll buy the cd. that's pretty much how i really started liking emm > >gryner. i thats great and i totally understand your point of view but i think most ppl using napster are just liking the free music. >i'm throwing out here) that 95% or so of people who have mp3's, also >own >that artist's cd(s). id say that 95% of ILLEGAL MP3 (there are millions of legal mp3 files floating around. i hate to lump them all in with the rest) users have CDS. but i think if someone wants to download a bootlegged mp3 version of a song taken from a certain album it is ONLY because they dont own it. why else would they download it? >i don't agree with people dling whole cd's for their >collection and never buying them in the store or whatever. i think that is what most heavy users of illegal mp3s do. why pay for something when you can download it for free then delete it if you dont like it or later get bored of it. most of these people dont care about having the "real" cd with liner notes etc as much as music addicts like the people on this list. also it is really easy and cheap to burn a cd if you need something portable. and easy enough to get the lyrics off the net too. >people who like to have the "real" cd, with liner notes and all. all but there are far too many people like i described above doing heavy trading and it is costing the recording industry (that includes the artists) big time. they wouldnt be trying to fight it so hard if it was increasing their sales. >cuz music industry sucks ass. record labels are financially driven corporations for the most part. especially the 4 major ones. as such they can be pretty cut-throat and decidedly unwarm and fuzzy environments. and yes that does suck ass. >well, i'm sure she may want it (more money and all, tighter >sound,etc) i really hope she doesnt. and as for the sound.. emm can make a lot of money doing things the way she does now if she keeps at it. (more than the average major signee) and will eventually be able to spend all the money she needs to or really wants to on production. >but due to all this crap, i hope she stays indie =) i think a lot of us do. well ciao4now roberto@soundcheck dot ca ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of headline-girl-digest V3 #142 ***********************************