From: owner-headline-girl-digest@smoe.org (headline-girl-digest) To: headline-girl-digest@smoe.org Subject: headline-girl-digest V2 #284 Reply-To: headline-girl@smoe.org Sender: owner-headline-girl-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-headline-girl-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk headline-girl-digest Sunday, November 28 1999 Volume 02 : Number 284 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Kevin Fox in Toronto tonight [Steve I ] Re: Death to Matt Galloway! [Steve I ] Subjective criticism and negative reviews... [Songbird22@aol.com] Mark Plati [Songbird22@aol.com] Re: Death to Matt Galloway! ["Julian C. Dunn" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 02:14:09 -0500 From: Steve I Subject: Re: Kevin Fox in Toronto tonight Tab wrote, re Kevin Fox: >Kevin's also playing Monday night at Ted's Wrecking Yeard at their weekly >singer-songwriter showcase, which has a really great lineup every week. >He's been playing that show at lot lately, I notice from the listings, >alhtough I unfortunately haven't made it out to one yet myself. Also on the >bill that night are some of the great musicians from Kim Stockwood's current >band (all well-known local musicians in their own right). I've been to two of them, one wasn't bad, but we got there late and only got to see Kevin play a couple songs. Then the other one was with Lenni Jabour and Shannon Lyon, and it turned out Kevin was really only playing backup for Lenni. Which was pretty disappointing because I can't stand Lenni Jabour. I don't know... the songwriter showcase format is fun if you like all of the people playing (the Emm-Sarah-Noah ones were bliss!) but if not it's just tedious because just when you're getting really into an artist's set, it ends and then you have to endure bad-to-mediocre stuff until his/her turn comes around again. C'est What would have been a nice uninterrupted Kevin set. Add in the fact that the atmosphere at Ted's has never been as comfortable and intimate to me as C'est What, and I was really hoping to make it to the C'est What one, I'd been looking forward to it for two months! Oh well... Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 03:19:47 -0500 From: Steve I Subject: Re: Death to Matt Galloway! At 04:57 PM 26/11/99 PST, you wrote: > > >Yet *another* stupid review of the Emm/Ron show - it's not online, sorry, >and I don't have time to type it up, but Toronto weekly NOW Magazine did a >review of the show which really slagged Emm pretty hard. >If anyone really wants to vent, I'd suggest firing off an e-mail or letter >to NOW - they're usually quite good about printing most of the feedback they >get. I posted a snide remark about the review too (I quoted his bit about some folks being disappointed about Bowie not making an appearance and suggested maybe his bad impression of Emm and especially Holly was from some sour grapes type thing) but it was really in jest. I don't know, *was* it a stupid review? He didn't like Emm and Holly, but their music isn't for everyone, I accept that. Same goes for that other review that James and Tab and one or two others didn't seem to like... it did have one or two errors, sure, but all in all was it really that bad? Part of it in fact really resonated with me, the part where he talks about Ron's set starting off well but after awhile all the songs beginning to blend in together... Christine and I both had the same experience and were commenting on it near the end of the show. I'm not flaming James and Tab here, lots of people here know that we're all friends, going back years in the case of me and James. But guys, lets be honest, was your dislike of the reviews triggered by the fact that they were really written poorly, or the fact that they voiced opinions that you don't agree with? Speaking for myself, reading reviews like that, I often find myself having a kind of knee-jerk reaction of dismissing the reviews as being "bad", but I think in retrospect that a lot of the time I just have trouble with reviewers not liking my favourite artists. And here let me go off on a bit of a tangent. Do local music writers have any sort of responsibility to support local/indie musicians? Is it OK for a Matt Galloway to trash a visiting megastar like say the Backstreet Boys but not OK for him to trash a struggling young local artist like Emm? (not that she's really struggling at this point, but you get the idea.) I haven't completely made up my mind on this point, but I tend to think that music writers have a responsibility to their audience, and a responsibility to help *good* bands rise to the top. Writers who only ever write glowing reviews tend to lose credibility in my eyes. "So what if writer X says this is a great band? He likes EVERYONE..." So they have to write negative reviews once in awhile. And lets face it, lots of bands suck, and deserve to fade away into obscurity, rather than be kept on life support by a few glowing reviews by insincere music writers. Of course the problem is that music by its nature is a highly personal thing, and hopefully people are smart enough to know that and not take any one review as gospel. Another tangent... a few years ago a friend denigrated concert reviews to me. This same friend really put a lot of faith in movie reviews, and read/watched as many as he could before deciding to see a movie. I pointed out this seeming inconsistency to him and he responded by saying that the point of movie reviews is to help movie consumers make decisions about what movies to see. What is the point of trashing a concert by a band who may only come around once every 3 or 4 years, if at all? Is it so in 3 or 4 years, the people who read that negative review can avoid the next show by that band? The situation now is a little more fuzzy with articles being on the internet, but for the most part it remains the same I think. I don't know, I still like reading concert reviews, even for concerts I attended myself. Maybe especially for concerts I attended myself. I guess it's because concert reviews are really written more as entertainment than a recommendation. I certainly don't make a habit of reading movie reviews after watching movies (although that's not any kind of hard and fast rule). In general, I guess what this boils down to is that if a writer likes a CD/concert, s/he should praise it. If s/he hates it, s/he should trash it. Honesty above all, even if it means hurting a few feelings among fans of that artist or band. So James, I'm glad you trashed those bands in print. Haven't read the reviews yet, but kudos all the same. :-) Steve P.S. feel free to throw in your 2 cents, everyone, I'm curious to think what everyone thinks. Especially you guys, James and Tab, seeing as you're the journalists in our midst! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 14:35:34 EST From: Songbird22@aol.com Subject: Subjective criticism and negative reviews... Steve writes: This is awesome, Steve, I was going to post something like this but I was kind of scared... > And here let me go off on a bit of a tangent. Do local music writers have > any sort of responsibility to support local/indie musicians? Is it OK for > a Matt Galloway to trash a visiting megastar like say the Backstreet Boys > but not OK for him to trash a struggling young local artist like Emm? (not > that she's really struggling at this point, but you get the idea.) I > haven't completely made up my mind on this point, but I tend to think that > music writers have a responsibility to their audience, and a responsibility > to help *good* bands rise to the top. Writers who only ever write glowing > reviews tend to lose credibility in my eyes. "So what if writer X says > this is a great band? He likes EVERYONE..." So they have to write > negative reviews once in awhile. And lets face it, lots of bands suck, and > deserve to fade away into obscurity, rather than be kept on life support by > a few glowing reviews by insincere music writers. This is what I've been thinking about a lot lately... It *is* possible that people out there won't like Emm's music or be as into as others or whatever, and that's really okay... So this writer didn't like her set and wasn't into it--he was being subjective, which, in my opinion, is better (esp. for music critics) than someone who says they like everything an artist does or likes everything period. I like Emm's music a whole lot and have tons of respect and admiration for her, but my boyfriend thinks her music is cheesy and can't stand it... I respect his opinion (I don't agree and we've gotten into HUGE arguments about music) even if I don't agree... I didn't find anything wrong with that guy's review--yeah, so he didn't like Emm's set ... that's gonna happen. Honestly, someone who is kind of big in the industry told me recently that for every good review/comment that you get, you get 3x the amount of bad/negative press/comments... I have read a few reviews (other artists) that are filled with so many cliched, trite phrases to describe artists and music, it makes them lose credibility in my eyes too... I would rather see someone who can analyze music for what it is, rather than what they want it to be... It's all subjective, of course... I think the guy who wrote it wasn't being overly critical, he was being subjective and analyzing the show... And it is his opinion, of course, but is his review not valid just because other people who saw the same show saw it differently? Just curious... Jessica www.aquezada.com/jess | www.mp3.com/jessweiser "where oh where did i leave myself today?" -patty griffin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 16:46:03 EST From: Songbird22@aol.com Subject: Mark Plati Umm...I know who I want to produce my next record ;) You guys should check out Mark's website: www.markplati.com. He's a cool musician/producer on the Bowie tour and has some pics (most are up on Emm's site) from several of their shows... :) Jessica www.aquezada.com/jess | www.mp3.com/jess "if i fall i will find a way back to my hands" -tm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 23:08:28 -0500 (EST) From: "Julian C. Dunn" Subject: Re: Death to Matt Galloway! On 27-Nov-1999 Steve I wrote: > Same goes for that other review that James and Tab and one or two others > didn't seem to like... it did have one or two errors, sure, but all in all > was it really that bad? Part of it in fact really resonated with me, the > part where he talks about Ron's set starting off well but after awhile all > the songs beginning to blend in together... Christine and I both had the > same experience and were commenting on it near the end of the show. Steve, I'm glad you spoke up first :-) I agree with your position and I'm not sure that the show review was THAT bad... I mean, Matt Galloway didn't like Emm and Holly, but as you said, they're not for everyone. I also have to disagree with James, who called Matt "dense" because he didn't like that Massive Attack cover. I mean, I appreciate that many fans, including Rob, adore that cover -- but I don't really like it. Oh well, I can't like *everything* that Emm does. I don't think there's a single artist out there whose entire musical repertoire I adore without qualification, and I don't expect that to change anytime soon. > And here let me go off on a bit of a tangent. Do local music writers have > any sort of responsibility to support local/indie musicians? Is it OK for Only if they like them, I think. Having said that, I think that music reviewers should only be allowed to become reviewers if they have passed the "open mind" test :) -- either that, or don't send reviewers who are usually into R&B / hip-hop to review, say, a Dar Williams show. :-P > In general, I guess what this boils down to is that if a writer likes a > CD/concert, s/he should praise it. If s/he hates it, s/he should trash it. > Honesty above all, even if it means hurting a few feelings among fans of > that artist or band. I'd have to say that just about sums up my opinion, so I'll stop talking now. :) - - Julian [ Julian C. Dunn - jdunn@aquezada.com WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/ ] [ programmer, web designer, unix user, fumbler, writer, and future engineer] [ FuE exfe94 a+++ Ifte/slc lonca r- ps++ bs+ t++/*t C+++$/C! w+++ p7 LF+++ ] [N++/N! cd260 pr++ g+++ S-/S *x++ Fa+++/Fa$/Fa! m1 b+ fc+++/ E>+ rl-- *d s!] [ "roll the tape, i'll show you how the ending began" - emm gryner ] ------------------------------ End of headline-girl-digest V2 #284 ***********************************