From: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org (harbinger-digest) To: harbinger-digest@smoe.org Subject: harbinger-digest V6 #19 Reply-To: harbinger@smoe.org Sender: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk harbinger-digest Thursday, March 8 2001 Volume 06 : Number 019 HARBINGER DIGEST To post, mail harbinger@smoe.org To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger-digest To get list info file, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info harbinger-digest Today's Subjects: ---------------- (harbinger) Bootlegs & Royalties [steven.stewart@nokia.com] Re: (harbinger) Bootlegs & Royalties [ThaliumAngel@cs.com] (harbinger) Re: harbinger-digest V6 #18 [Shorely@aol.com] (harbinger) ...In Closing ["James R Sutton" ] Re: (harbinger) Bootlegs & Royalties [Hignface@aol.com] (harbinger) Paula bootlegs [Nowhere2Go@webtv.net] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:56:49 +0200 From: steven.stewart@nokia.com Subject: (harbinger) Bootlegs & Royalties Though the anger and name calling isn't called for, I think this topic is worth talking about. My opinion on bootlegs as an "artist" (in the loose sense of the word)? If I go to Estonia and they have a copy of a bootleg album that I can buy in the store, but it is sold for 1/2 the price, I try not to buy it. That is stealing money from the artist and the record company. If I buy a bootleg of a live show that is NOT for sale anywhere else, I do not feel I am depriving the artist of any money because there is no legitimate source to purchase the album to get money to the artist. A solution for that would be to make live recordings available for purchase from the artist website. no fancy artwork is needed, just a blank CD with the music. If it costs more to buy because it is a limited run, I'd pay that, too. There are also "promotion copies" that are labeled "not for sale" that have exclusive mixes or cuts on them. Specifically the amazing remixes of IBIL. If the record company is too stupid to recognize the potential in releasing these tracks to the public, I am going to find a way to get them. Again, Paula is UNABLE to make money from the selling of these tracks because either her record company or her website is not making them available to purchase. Even posting the song to mp3.com would allow her Payback for Playback royalties that artists don't get from Napster. (Recent big artists doing that are DIDO and MADONNA...the key is to stop complaining against the pirates and find a way to beat them and make money from those opportunities the labels aren't taking.) What did Paula just say about WB..."A ship without a captain" or something? I still think WB is missing a lot of opportunites by not following the lead of labels like Nettwerk who offer rares and singles for sale through the artist website. Generating extra money and interest for the artist for the fans without having to back it with a tour or promotion. There have also been studies done (don't have the data with me) about the power of live bootlegs (as opposed to just copies of commercial releases) having the power to build fan bases. i.e., if someone gets a live boot of Paula's AMEN show because they love THIS FIRE, they may also find live versions of songs from HARBINGER and AMEN that they enjoy...prompting the purchase of an album. Also, if the live show sounds even better than the CD, you are going to get those people to the shows with their friends. And enjoying ALL the songs rather than just freaking out over COWBOYS and DAWSON'S...er...IDWTW. If the only exposure listeners have to an artist is the commercial releases, they may not be interested in the live shows, which Paula has mentioned in interviews is her great joy. Paula Cole seems to be a woman who takes control of the decisions made about her career. If she has expressed some concern about the selling of live bootlegs, I'd like to hear it. I can't think of any valid reason she would have against it. (If she is planning to release a live CD in the future (which her label says they aren't interested in doing and won't support), the people with the boots will STILL buy it because it will have the production, shine, and different arrangements than what is available.) I see that live boots don't stop sales of the legit albums...they encourage them by creating a demand and a loyalty from fans who discuss the pros and cons of the guitar/drums vs the piano/drums vs the full band versions of Happy Home or Jolene. It creates discussion and interest. I think it's healthy. Thats my opinion....and you can hear my own music at: http://www.mp3.com/fakefinn Steven - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:57:00 EST From: ThaliumAngel@cs.com Subject: Re: (harbinger) Bootlegs & Royalties Alright time for my two cents on this subject. I hate that my post has to be on such a controversial subject but I have to step up and say something. I agree with Steven that people are going to get the music they wanna hear no matter what the source. If they can't find it in a legitimate way then yes many people will turn to buying illegal copies of music or trading to get it. Look at Napster they are one of the biggest ways to get hard to find music in the world right now including live and or hard-to-find recordings. Personally I don't really understand why artists are always so worried about the money look at the Greatful Dead for instance who condoned the bootlegging and trading of their music and was for a long time one of the top grossing music acts in the world. They made the money the deserved and then some, the had enough to live a comfortable lifestyle and go on and they loved what they did. That is what makes me honestly sick is the fact that musicians and record labels want the millions...come on people I love Paula and her music and all but how much is one freaking song worth? Bootlegs may not be the best quality of music and truly are far from the quality of a professional recording but they also give us something we can't feel anywhere else other than at a live show. I am stuck in the middle of nowhere and hours from a live show so for me to be able to see Paula or any artist live is almost impossible with out my taking days away from work to go to a concert. If I can find bootlegs of live shows then I appreciate the person who made it and am greatful for a chance to hear her live. I am sorry to ramble on about this but why continue to make such a deal over it. I don't understand why Napster is being given so much crap over trading of music either. If it weren't for Napster I probably would not own most of the music I legally own today. Give it up and get on with a new subject... ZiaMiChelle ZiaPromotions - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:18:52 EST From: Shorely@aol.com Subject: (harbinger) Re: harbinger-digest V6 #18 Thanks for making my morning ya'll. I never post but that exchange was very entertaining. Now everyone hug and make-up. LBS - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 07:48:52 -0800 From: "James R Sutton" Subject: (harbinger) ...In Closing Hey all, First I wanted to say that I am also a member of the Level 42 digest and every now and then this sort of thing happens there too. There's always going to be the people, usually younger people who never identify themselves and post to the list starting a big fiasco. Unfortunately, I always let it get to me and become part of it myself. If there's anything good that may have come from this is that we all know where we stand on bootlegging and Paula's music. And eventhough it's a crappy topic, it's great to see the list active again. :) I feel sorry for the poor sap who tries to sell anything on the list in the future! Paula Cole and her band are such fantastic musicians and enventhough I haven't met any of them or had the privilege of getting to know them, they seem like really good hearted people and they deserve the best. If "Hignface" had only one good thing to say, it was the fact that we're here to celebrate Paula Cole and her music. I would hate to think that Paula may read this list herself on occasion only to find all this bickering. We honestly love you Paula! :) As for Paulajr, I'm sorry that you were insulted in the way that you were. It's really unfortunate that some people can't really express their feelings in an intelligent manner. I've been there and I feel for you. By the way, eventhough I didn't grow up listening to Led Zeppelin and am by far, no where near an expert on the subject of their music, Paula's cover of Black Dog is absolutely amazing. I was fortunate to have seen the band three times on the Amen tour and that song was so badass! Oh and another thing, I am really into the music of Tack>>Head and a lot of the other music Doug Wimbish is part of. He has always been one of my top five favorite bassists along with Mark King and Geddy Lee. So when I saw Doug in the IBIL video and heard he was on tour with the band, I was overjoyed. He is one of the most creative players around he did such a fantastic job with Paula's music. Anyway, I need to go to work...I'm late! Damn. Thanks you guys, James ___________________________ jamesrsutton@home.com http://www.jamesrsutton.com paulacolefan@hotmail.com ___________________________ - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:53:00 EST From: Hignface@aol.com Subject: Re: (harbinger) Bootlegs & Royalties Steven you are a very smart man.....you actually said the smartest thing on this website in a long time....amen to you dude - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:59:25 -0500 (EST) From: Nowhere2Go@webtv.net Subject: (harbinger) Paula bootlegs Hey I video taped Paula at Singer Songwriter Fest in Philadelphia back in the day of Harbinger.....and the only person who has a copy of it besides myself is the actual Paula Cole but don't worry I didn't make a profit off it I gave it to her for free!!!!! LOL - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ End of harbinger-digest V6 #19 ******************************