From: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org (harbinger-digest) To: harbinger-digest@smoe.org Subject: harbinger-digest V5 #138 Reply-To: harbinger@smoe.org Sender: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk harbinger-digest Saturday, August 26 2000 Volume 05 : Number 138 HARBINGER DIGEST To post, mail harbinger@smoe.org To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger-digest To get list info file, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info harbinger-digest Today's Subjects: ---------------- (harbinger) Thanks James [steven.stewart@nokia.com] Re: (harbinger) Remember this is art.... ["Kenneth Carpenter" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:37:27 +0300 From: steven.stewart@nokia.com Subject: (harbinger) Thanks James James...glad to hear you not being silent and that you love Amen. top to bottom. I enjoy hearing the other side of the story, too. What prompted me to write about AMEN wasn't just my own dissatisfaction with a lot of the album or my interpretations of the lyrics. It was started because in most of her interviews Paula was mixing the art with the marketing. She was saying how she wrote an album she loves and often said she took the "higher road" knowing that it wouldn't be understood by the critics. Then she says how her old manager and WB botched the release, she can't understand why it wasn't a big hit, is disappointed with the lack of turnout to her live shows, and has been openly blaming everything from Lilith burnout (with some pointed barbs at Sarah who was influencial in helping her career from allowing her to be an opening act to getting great slots on Lilith tour as well as the leadoff song for the first lilith CD). So, I've taken to listing my opinions of why the album didn't connect to fans as well as some of the marketing choices. Since the Grammy nominations and win as well as the huge success of COWBOYS and IDWTW, I think Paula overestimated the loyalty of the general public fans and has often come across as thumbing her nose at those who have supported her. Classic example...EW (Entertainment Weekly magazine) gave Paula rave reviews for THIS FIRE and often featured her in other news stories. In one of those stories, they airbrushed out her armpit hair and Paula wrote a snappish letter telling them they were cowards. Maybe it wasn't related, but I feel the harsh review of Amen. that followed a few months later was meant to "put her in her place." I admit I don't think Amen. is a perfect album, but the review seemed bent on teaching her a public lesson in humility. (To clarify, I thought it was fine for Paula to write about it, I just thought her tone was arrogant and self righteous.) Paula has often been a critical darling with glowing reviews in Rolling Stone as well as other magazines. Very little negative had been written about her first two albums. So to ballsily start RYTHYM OF LIFE with "to the critics and the cynics who don't understand the lyrics..." (and then start her industry shows with that song) was kind of a slap in the face to those who have been pretty nice to her up to that point. It was almost goading them into criticising an album with contained some of the weakest lyrics I've seen from an aritst I think is a truly talented lyricist. Again, as an artist, she can do whatever she wants. But she doesn't have the right to bitch and moan about people "not getting it" if she knew in advance they wouldn't get it and didn't give them anything to help swallow that bitter pill. So, in my opinion, if you are only concerned about art, then don't complain about sales. If you are concerned about sales, then you need to try to deliver a marketable product. If you want the best of both worlds, then you need to pay attention to both sides. Yes, I should take a chill pill and just enjoy...the album is over a year old and I should be over it. I honestly wished with all my heart that the album was a big success...I am still floored that WB DID screw up not only the opportunities of IBIL, but the lack of a followup to correct the mistake. And though I used to think it brave and wise of Paula to distance herself from the last Lilith festival...I can't help but wonder if the album would have gotten a bigger push from all of those audiences that would have heard the stuff live and been excited about the new album. I mean...only 100,000 copies sold...sigh Steven from Helsinki - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:09:24 EDT From: "Kenneth Carpenter" Subject: Re: (harbinger) Remember this is art.... James wrote: >First of all, I think it's important to remember that music >is an art form. A means of expression with no boundaries >that is completely open for interpretation. Interpret the >art as you wish, but no one knows more about what was intended >than the artist who created it. That's true, but in this case the artist told us outright what she intended for the song. If you haven't before now, check out her bio and www.paulacole.com and you'll find her stating her intention behind "God Is Watching." She said, "I wanted to end the album with a mantra of ‘love one another.'" >I feel that people are reading entirely too much into Paula's >lyrics. I personally love Amen, top to bottom. I'm glad you enjoy the album as a whole, James. I enjoyed parts of it, too. That's cool for both of us. >I enjoy the production, the music and the lyrics too. Oh, hell yes... I'm with you wholeheartedly on the production and the music. Paula's skills are increasing by leaps and bounds in both of those areas. Amen sounds great! And her voice has really never sounded better. That's why I'm so excited to hear her what she does in the future. >Just because I may not agree with my interpretation of what Paula has to >say lyrically, doesn't mean that the song isn't a great song or that it's >not a valid viewpoint. Did anyone question the validity of her viewpoint? I know I didn't. >"Hitler's Brothers" and "God is Watching" are two completely >different songs, on two separate albums, written at two totally >different times in Paula's life! Why are they being compared? Because both songs deal with the issues of racism. Because both songs were written to encourage us to stop fearing each other because of our differences. Because they're both written by the same woman at two totally different times in her life and it's interesting to see the evolution that takes place. It doesn't seem to me like it should be so surprising that a fan would compare/contrast two songs by the same artist that deal with the same themes, despite a five-year age difference in the songs themselves. >In the last issue of the digest I received, there was a novel written >about "God Is Watching". A novella, perhaps. ;^) >The author That was me. My name is Kenn. Hi. Glad to meet you, James. >excessively dissects what he believes Paula to be saying in this >song. OK >sure, maybe he's an expert on the impacts of racism in society. But why >grill Paula's lyrics if you're not completely certain what her intent >really was?! >I feel that being over analytical is a waste of time and usually does >more bad than good. Let's give Paula a break people. Lighten up a >bit. Excessively dissects? Maybe I'm an expert on racism? Grill Paula? Gosh, and here I thought I was just a fan who was speaking his mind on what his own personal (albeit lengthy) interpretation of one example of Paula Cole's art form. Now I find out I'm just a mean bastard who spends too much time thinking and doesn't write short enough posts. Look, I'm really glad to see that other people, especially those who are usually silent around here, are speaking out on the list. I love to see that people are interested in talking about music and ideas. But James' post isn't as much about talking about Paula's music or ideas about her music or about music in general as much as it was him telling me that I talk too much and think too much and that he thinks it's a waste of my time (and apparently his) to analyze the art I enjoy. Oddly enough, some of James' own words say exactly what I feel right now, so I'm just going to lob them back to him again here: >Just because I may not agree with my interpretation of what Paula has to >say lyrically, doesn't mean that the song isn't a great song or that it's >not a valid viewpoint. I think this is a courtesy we should afford each other, too. Kenn ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: 25 Aug 2000 19:17:45 -0700 From: diane ngo Subject: (harbinger) back, and re: God is Watching hey all, this is Diane again. i've tried to post this message and others a number of times but for SOME REASON it hasnt worked, so ive had to post this from my other email. Much frustration and conspiracy theories aside, here's my posting.... Dear Kenn and everyone, i was going to write a reply to kenn's previous email but his latest one really takes the cake and i think i should put in my two cents worth. first of all, what really was offensive about kenn's first email was his pathetic snide sarcasm when criticising Paula's album, unlike say, Tim's and Mike post whose reasons for disliking Amen were fine, it is after all JUST an opinion. (and i'm glad it's settled that ANYONE can have an opinion regardless of whether they're "personal acquaintances" (sic) of Paula Cole's or not) As for Kenn's reply to my email, that was the most patronising, pathetic post ive ever gotten. As for your making fun of the way some people talk (i.e black ppl) >>>>Hey, yo... hab you and yo girl, Paula, bin hangin' wit yo posse in da 'hood 'n gettin' jiggy wit yo funky fresh ebonics, mu'fucka? ;^) how do you know that i dont talk like that, or that i dont live in a ghetto in real life? why assume that we are all like you. In some contexts, that kind of remark could be interpreted as racist.... As for Kenn's last post re: God is Watching and Amen in general, it's become clear to me what ive suspected, that some people dont like not only the different style of music, but the political nature of the lyrics/album. Perhaps this is alienating for some who are too afraid to look outside their nice white middle-class backgrounds? When i first listened to Amen, i was disappointed but thats because i was expecting another THIS FIRE. It was a shock to me, but now the more i listen to it the more i love it. i love her new musical style- i am so proud of her that with every album the sound is totally different- this girl's evolving! and with AMEN she has just blossomed. i Love it when she raps in Rhythm of Life, her RnB style in LaTonya, the orchestra in IBIL etc you get the picture. At first i was a little suspicious of her foray into "black" music- i mean how many white ppl have cashed in by ripping off black music? And of course are never criticised for it, but i think because Paula is a woman, she gets "ripped another asshole" for doing it. But the important thing is she uses it "good" rather than for "evil" (hehehe) i *love* the POLITICAL nature of her lyrics and her _conscious_ move to do that in Amen. It's about time too! i think so many singer/songwritiers are personal but barely go beyond that into the political, which is a bit narrow-minded, cuz "the personal is political" and vice versa. I see it as Paula Cole moving on from the more self-indulgent (which is fine) in Harbinger and This Fire on to an examination of her outside world , outside of herself. I dont think she's rejecting her own cultural identity- nor is she rejecting whites by siding with black people, as have all been suggested by Kenn. Goddamit, things like racism and poverty are issue that need to be addressed by EVERYONE, not just by poor and non-white people. Indeed, i believe that it most needs to be addressed by people who benefit from this kind of system- white, middle class people and their own internalised racism. Failure to see that shows a certain lack of UNDERSTANDING or empathy of other's experiences and the role that we all play in keeping the staus quo. And to say that things have really, and i mean really changed in terms of racism in our society (institutional as well as personal) as Kenn suggest, is to suffer what i would call a certain colour-blindedness. WAKE UP. that's all i want to say right now, besides that i give Amen two big thumbs up!! Diane ___________________________________________________ Would you like a free @PaulaCole.com email address? Go to http://www.PaulaCole.com to find out how. - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ End of harbinger-digest V5 #138 *******************************