From: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org (harbinger-digest) To: harbinger-digest@smoe.org Subject: harbinger-digest V5 #135 Reply-To: harbinger@smoe.org Sender: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk harbinger-digest Wednesday, August 23 2000 Volume 05 : Number 135 HARBINGER DIGEST To post, mail harbinger@smoe.org To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger-digest To get list info file, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info harbinger-digest Today's Subjects: ---------------- (harbinger) this fire... [steven.stewart@nokia.com] (harbinger) Re: harbinger-digest V5 #134 [Bill Phillips ] Re: (harbinger) Donna DeLory ["Michael Kleinert" ] Re: (harbinger) Donna DeLory ["Paula" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 12:23:50 +0300 From: steven.stewart@nokia.com Subject: (harbinger) this fire... Did you know that Dianne was really Paula using a pseudonym? :) I have to thank her for posting, though. It's really great to see so many people who are not regular posters give their opinions. I especially enjoyed hearing from both Tim and Mike. Funny...I think this list has quite a few of Paula's "core" audience who she says appreciates AMEN, yet so many here are pretty verbal about it's shortcomings. Personally, I appreciate that Paula made the album she wanted to make but don't necessarily appreciate it as an album I think is perfect. I've written before about how I think most of the songs have moments of brilliance and inspiration...but fall apart in one way or another. IBIL and PEARL are still two of my favorite Paula tracks ever. (I still think IBIL should be resurrected to appear on the new CHARLIE'S ANGELS soundtrack with it's retro violins.) I actually have listened to AMEN a lot and really really wanted it to speak to me. I always end up frustrated that I love the idea of the songs much more than the final execution...LaTonya's haunting gospel howl overwhelms me, the twist of the chorus of believing in God despite the pain is great...but the clumsy and obvious lyrics of the verses and especially the bridge just kills the song for me. I'm sad I never got to hear GOD IS WATCHING live to see what makes it so dear to Paula's heart. I'm sure when she was practicing the song it had a killer groove and live energy that swallowed up the earnest, but lazy lyrics. But the studio version seemed to highlight the weaknesses and hide the groove. I sooo wanted her to have a great spiritual R&B anthem like "What's Going On?" but what I got was a poor imitation of HITLER'S BROTHERS. Does anyone else feel that way? That she already did the same theme much better in an earlier song. Whereas HB has a wicked pulse and the inventive and unique whistling as well as a tight and descriptive story line that draws the listener into it's vignettes, what does WATCHING offer that is new? It just sits there and preaches. And any song with "millenium" in it is already passe after the Y2K overload (even if the millenium doesn't begin until 2001). I was especially interested in the article that spoke of FREE being one of the very first songs she had written. I still wonder why it wasn't a Bside instead. OK. If you are still with my longwindedness... Do you think AMEN would have done better and would have been reviewed better if it would have also included BILLY JOE, NIGHT, and RING FINGER, had a different title (Dark Mystery? haha!) and different album cover? I think with CDs being so expensive, a weak 9 cuts hurt badly...especially when other artists like Alanis shoved 17 songs on a disk (and only 1 or 2 of the 9 songs were even close to something radio could play). I think I would have been more forgiving of what I felt were "filler" songs if there were more "meat" songs. I love the cover and title. Unfortunately, I think too many people thought it was a christian album or mocking christianity for some reason with the saintlike rays). I think that hurt. Artists CAN have it both ways...combining the art with the necessary evil of commercialism if they want to have a long career, but also want to explore their own new directions. (this also helps bridge the fans from an old style to a new style.) For example in the 80s the band Journey (!!!) released an album called FRONTIERS. The first side of the album were fan-friendly songs that they knew the record company would love. The second side was edgy (well, edgy for Journey) tracks that covered a wide musical and thematic range. They said they wrote side one for the fans, side two for themselves. Surprise...after all these years (I was about 10 or 12 at the time), I like side two better. Well, I'm all over the place in this post. Guess I should shut up and just thank those who start the discussions about what we think and why, and those who responded. Steven from Helsinki Hear me roar at: http://www.mp3.com/fakefinn - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 15:27:56 -0400 From: Bill Phillips Subject: (harbinger) Re: harbinger-digest V5 #134 Hello! >look at how the sales of Harbinger increased after This Fire >went wild Just how many copies did Harbinger sell? I've always wondered! Bill - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 17:10:52 EDT From: "Kenneth Carpenter" Subject: Re: (harbinger) Re: harbinger-digest V5 #134 Bill wrote: >Just how many copies did Harbinger sell? I've always wondered! I'd have to go through all of my documentation for the website to find the exact figure, but from what I recall Harbinger managed to at least go gold after the release of This Fire. Kenn ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 19:22:11 EDT From: "Kenneth Carpenter" Subject: (harbinger) Re: Natural Michael wrote: >I actually recall that Don Henley had often pointed toward the Eagles >undoing happening after they felt that they could never match the >great >success of their Hotel California album. I think that when the standard is >raised for what's expected of you, there is a great deal more pressure, and >things become less natural. That's a great point, especially the part of things becoming "less natural." That's been my impression of Amen. all along. It might seem natural according to Paula, but I have to question the truth of that because it doesn't feel natural or sound natural to some of us who are listening carefully. I recall that at the end of the electronic press kit for "Harbinger," Paula tells the off-camera interviewer that, when it comes to her music and her career, the most important thing to her is to be honest. She echoed that sentiment again in some fairly recent rticle or interview. To me, that means that she would be natural about her music and approach it from a personal perspective, taking into account all the truths about herself. I don't see that on Amen. But, maybe she just doesn't really know all the truths about herself yet. Maybe she just needs more time. Kenn ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 20:22:08 -0400 From: "Michael Kleinert" Subject: Re: (harbinger) Donna DeLory Hey guys - Anybody going to the Fez show this Monday? I've made my reservation and I'm looking fwd to it -- all on YOUR recommendations, since all I've heard is a few muddy sound samples at her site (I've got little teeny laptop speakers)! You guys have never let me down yet w/ musician referrals. If anybody else is gonna be there, perhaps I will see some faces behind the screens :-) Mike - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Carpenter" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 7:22 PM Subject: (harbinger) Re: Natural > Michael wrote: > > >I actually recall that Don Henley had often pointed toward the Eagles > >undoing happening after they felt that they could never match the >great > >success of their Hotel California album. I think that when the standard is > >raised for what's expected of you, there is a great deal more pressure, and > >things become less natural. > > That's a great point, especially the part of things becoming "less natural." > That's been my impression of Amen. all along. It might seem natural > according to Paula, but I have to question the truth of that because it > doesn't feel natural or sound natural to some of us who are listening > carefully. > > I recall that at the end of the electronic press kit for "Harbinger," Paula > tells the off-camera interviewer that, when it comes to her music and her > career, the most important thing to her is to be honest. > > She echoed that sentiment again in some fairly recent rticle or interview. > To me, that means that she would be natural about her music and approach it > from a personal perspective, taking into account all the truths about > herself. I don't see that on Amen. But, maybe she just doesn't really know > all the truths about herself yet. Maybe she just needs more time. > > Kenn > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ------------------------------ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe harbinger > > Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will > work for your EVERY time. > > Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: > http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html > > - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:04:04 -0400 From: "Paula" Subject: Re: (harbinger) Donna DeLory Hey Mike! I wish I could go! If you get a chance to talk to Jay or Donna, make sure you tell them I said hi!! :) paulaR - ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Kleinert To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 8:22 PM Subject: Re: (harbinger) Donna DeLory > Hey guys - > > Anybody going to the Fez show this Monday? I've made my reservation and I'm > looking fwd to it -- all on YOUR recommendations, since all I've heard is a > few muddy sound samples at her site (I've got little teeny laptop speakers)! > > You guys have never let me down yet w/ musician referrals. > > If anybody else is gonna be there, perhaps I will see some faces behind the > screens :-) > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kenneth Carpenter" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 7:22 PM > Subject: (harbinger) Re: Natural > > > > Michael wrote: > > > > >I actually recall that Don Henley had often pointed toward the Eagles > > >undoing happening after they felt that they could never match the >great > > >success of their Hotel California album. I think that when the standard > is > > >raised for what's expected of you, there is a great deal more pressure, > and > > >things become less natural. > > > > That's a great point, especially the part of things becoming "less > natural." > > That's been my impression of Amen. all along. It might seem natural > > according to Paula, but I have to question the truth of that because it > > doesn't feel natural or sound natural to some of us who are listening > > carefully. > > > > I recall that at the end of the electronic press kit for "Harbinger," > Paula > > tells the off-camera interviewer that, when it comes to her music and her > > career, the most important thing to her is to be honest. > > > > She echoed that sentiment again in some fairly recent rticle or interview. > > To me, that means that she would be natural about her music and approach > it > > from a personal perspective, taking into account all the truths about > > herself. I don't see that on Amen. But, maybe she just doesn't really > know > > all the truths about herself yet. Maybe she just needs more time. > > > > Kenn > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > > unsubscribe harbinger > > > > Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will > > work for your EVERY time. > > > > Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: > > http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe harbinger > > Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will > work for your EVERY time. > > Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: > http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html > > - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ End of harbinger-digest V5 #135 *******************************