From: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org (harbinger-digest) To: harbinger-digest@smoe.org Subject: harbinger-digest V5 #93 Reply-To: harbinger@smoe.org Sender: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk harbinger-digest Thursday, June 1 2000 Volume 05 : Number 093 HARBINGER DIGEST To post, mail harbinger@smoe.org To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger-digest To get list info file, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info harbinger-digest Today's Subjects: ---------------- (harbinger) AGH!!! [steven.stewart@nokia.com] Re: (harbinger) AGH!!! [Honoku@aol.com] Re: (harbinger) AGH!!! [Chris Wright ] (harbinger) Suwannee Jo Lyrics? [Bandera199@aol.com] Re: (harbinger) Suwannee Jo Lyrics? ["Kenneth Carpenter" ] Re: (harbinger) Suwannee Jo Lyrics? [Bandera199@aol.com] (harbinger) Interview Transcript - Part II ["K.C." ] Re: (harbinger) AGH!!! ["Kenneth Carpenter" ] (harbinger) veggie [Rachel Bussel ] Re: (harbinger) AGH!!! [Honoku@aol.com] Re: (harbinger) veggie ["Kenneth Carpenter" ] Re: (harbinger) AGH!!! ["Kenneth Carpenter" ] Re: (harbinger) AGH!!! [Brian C ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:02:27 +0300 From: steven.stewart@nokia.com Subject: (harbinger) AGH!!! Kenn...say it isn't so. If THIS what firing your manager does for your career, I say beg Carter back. Seriously, what is she thinking? If she hates to be pigeonholed so much, why is she aligning herself with VEGGIE WORLD & HEALING CRYSTALS R US magazines (further reinforcing the Earth Mother-Nature Goddess Lilith Fair association that she hates so much.) Does she really think any of those readers are going to go out and buy AMEN after reading the article? Does she think that will do anything to break her from the DAWSON'S teen pop idol mold? If she wants the "Soul Sister" schtick to stick, why not try to break into VIBE or any other R&B, soul, roots, magazine and play up her association (misguided as it may be) with Missy and the TLC chick, her keyboard player, her boyfriend...anything to try to open that untapped audience that she seemed so desperate to capture. Even better and more prestigeous, Get an interview in magazines dedicated to record producing and talk about recording AMEN and the new ways of completely redoing vocals for remixes. Play up the first female grammy nomination for producing. But last of all, WHY BOTHER TO DO THE MAGAZINES AT ALL IF YOU HAVE NO PRODUCT TO PUSH???!!!! I still haven't seen a release date for BE SOMEBODY, though it is now on Ebay. (But we've seen the IBIL remixes, Amen, and the Bonfires CD on ebay with no releases in sight.) sigh. this does not make me happy. Steven from Finland - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:03:07 EDT From: Honoku@aol.com Subject: Re: (harbinger) AGH!!! In a message dated 5/31/2000 5:17:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, steven.stewart@nokia.com writes: << Seriously, what is she thinking? >> in my opinion it is the function of the artist in society, and in spirit, to make new synthesis. to follow an inner trail, make new combinations that work according to an inner muse, and screw the established well paved ways to success. any mindless talent can follow a formula, an artist should find a new way, thier own way, where in lies a personal satisfaction steve - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 16:28:29 +0100 From: Chris Wright Subject: Re: (harbinger) AGH!!! On Wed, 31 May 2000 12:02:27 +0300, steven.stewart@nokia.com wrote: >If she hates to be pigeonholed so much, why is she aligning herself with >VEGGIE WORLD & HEALING CRYSTALS R US magazines (further reinforcing the >Earth Mother-Nature Goddess Lilith Fair association that she hates so much.) >Does she really think any of those readers are going to go out and buy AMEN >after reading the article? I can't say anything about those into crystals but, as a vegan, I can say that veggies are inclined to be well disposed to other veggies, particularly celeb veggies, so an article about Paula in a veggie magazine (assuming she is veggie) would certainly have a positive impact on some of the readers. Chris W - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:08:26 EDT From: Bandera199@aol.com Subject: (harbinger) Suwannee Jo Lyrics? Hey.... does anyone have the lyrics (or know where I can find them transcribed somewhere) to Suwannee Jo? We're thinking about covering it live (I just got a distortion pedal for my cello, so we're trying new stuff to be creative with...).... thanks! Sarah ***** Sarah Hoover Lead Singer/Cellist Lady Jane Grey www.MP3.com/LadyJaneGrey www.CDBaby.com/LadyJaneGrey - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:35:25 EDT From: "Kenneth Carpenter" Subject: Re: (harbinger) Suwannee Jo Lyrics? Didn't you buy Amen, Sarah? The lyrics are included on the front insert. Kenn >From: Bandera199@aol.com >Reply-To: harbinger@smoe.org >To: harbinger@smoe.org >Subject: (harbinger) Suwannee Jo Lyrics? >Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:08:26 EDT > >Hey.... does anyone have the lyrics (or know where I can find them >transcribed somewhere) to Suwannee Jo? We're thinking about covering it >live >(I just got a distortion pedal for my cello, so we're trying new stuff to >be >creative with...).... thanks! > >Sarah > >***** >Sarah Hoover >Lead Singer/Cellist >Lady Jane Grey >www.MP3.com/LadyJaneGrey >www.CDBaby.com/LadyJaneGrey > >------------------------------ >To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: >unsubscribe harbinger > >Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will >work for your EVERY time. > >Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: >http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 13:28:40 -0400 From: "K.C." Subject: (harbinger) Interview Transcript - Part I After seven Grammy nominations including a win as Best New Artist for her 1996 double-platinum album, This Fire, Paula Cole gained the confidence to create the album she always wanted to make. The result was Amen. The acoustic instrumentation and soulful arrangements on the album's nine tracks act as a support system for her lyrics, many of which explore her spiritual beliefs and the ideal that love is not only all around but as necessary to everyday life as breathing. Cole recognizes that making her views public can attract wrath from those who pigeonhole her as the maker of pop hits ("Where Have All The Cowboys Gone" and "I Don't Want To Wait"). To preserve her creative and personal integrity, she would rather confront the world with her idealistic musical adventures than become a human jukebox. JPG: You took an enormous risk making such a personal album --- some people understand it while other have ripped it. Were you prepared for the backlash? Do you still feel firm with your approach or did you question it at some point after its release? PC: I knew that it would receive criticism. I anticipated that and I even wrote about it in one of the songs. It's a very honest record. Really all I can demand or expect from myself is to write honest music. You can't possibly go wrong if it's honest. And yes, I'll believe in it until the day I die. "I Believe In Love," the first single, is the biggest hit song I've ever written, even though it was not a big commercial hit at all. I've also had some hard knocks associated with the record. The release of the album was botched, and I parted ways with my manager of eight and a half years. So now I'm reconstructing myself. I demand longevity from my career because I'm a career artist. There are inevitably going to be passageways that are difficult, and this was one of them. JPG: Do you think it's better to be touring now after all the growing pains of the release so you might bring a different perspective to people's eyes? PC: Yes, we're doing five shows a week; we're sleeping on the bus and using day rooms for hotels and showers. It's really hard, and it's definitely not glamorous. I'm playing small venues and playing to a very, very core audience. In a way it's been humbling --- there's no hit on the radio that we're working --- but I'm getting in touch with my roots; this is who I am. I feel like there have been some mistakes made, some misconceptions of who I am, and this is rectifying it. This is where it's at and what my life is now. I've been on the road for most of the past seven years and the nucleus of my band has been with me for twelve. I'm really proud of the live show; it kicks ass, and I just want people to come see it. I'm pummeling my way through these times, and I'm carving out my singular identity. JPG: That kind of starts heading into the whole idea of you wanting to be an artist rather than a jukebox. PC: Well, of course, I've always thought of myself that way. I had an album before This Fire that sold about a hundred thousand copies. It had a loyal core audience and started as a very alternative, leftist label which people totally forget. I just feel so misinterpreted, but there's an element to this career that is phenomenal. I'm convinced it's beyond your control. JPG: You took voice lessons in preparation for this album. Was it something you'd been wanting to do for a while or did you feel you needed to strengthen your voice for this album? PC: I pushed myself because I wanted to be the best singer I could be. I discovered a new thing; I discovered that the whistle tone of my voice is very high, upper range, and that can be heard at the end of "I Believe In Love" and "Be Somebody." It was a really nice discovery. I'm probably always going to be doing these things all my life: deciding that I need to learn French, that I need to learn how to ride a horse, or that I need to learn to be a better singer and discover more on my own. I consciously wanted to be a stronger singer, especially now. More to come.... - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 13:27:28 EDT From: Bandera199@aol.com Subject: Re: (harbinger) Suwannee Jo Lyrics? ....ummmm, yeah, I had it at one point but loaned it to someone and never got it back. So, no, I don't have them (yeah, okay. I guess it's time to go get another copy.)..... :) In a message dated 5/31/00 11:48:38 AM Central Daylight Time, senchokid@hotmail.com writes: << Didn't you buy Amen, Sarah? The lyrics are included on the front insert. Kenn >> - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 13:45:59 -0400 From: "K.C." Subject: (harbinger) Interview Transcript - Part II JPG: Do you think it's difficult for others to deal with spirituality in music if it's not specifically a Christian record? PC: There's actually a lot of spirituality, politics, social issues, race, poverty, and gun violence in music. God, even country great, Dolly Parton talks about spirituality and sex at the same time! With hip hop, look at Gangstar and KRS-One. They talk about spirituality, responsibility, social issues, etc. A lot of soul musicians --- Bob Marley, Ray Charles --- were doing it years ago, talking about choosing God and love. I tend to love the artists who step up to the plate of dealing with social issues the most. They become more than just entertainers, almost political visionaries, people who are making a difference in a lifetime. I'm drawn to that. It tends most often to be African American artists who capture the essence of social issues, but I think country musicians do it also. I think it just shows you how categorized, in their own mind our American public has become. They see me as a pop, white, female artist and because I'm talking about spirituality --- totally nondenominationally mind you --- they think I've gone Christian or something. It's just so narrow. I find myself in these times misunderstood. But I'll keep on going and eventually people will understand. Because I'm complex, it's going to take five albums for me to be understood. JPG: I read something where you mention God, love, and Buddhism; I'm curious about your own spiritual beliefs and how they developed. PC: Intuitively as a little kid, I believed in a higher power but was raised in basically an atheist atmosphere. My parents didn't go to church, didn't believe in religion and didn't believe in a higher power. I adopted those beliefs and for most of my life was searching because what I was taught belied what I felt. So I searched a more intellectual plane and read a lot. I was drawn to finding the meaning of life through zoologist readers like Desmon Morris, philosophical readers like Jung or Joseph Campbell, fiction writers like Herman Hesse, Buddhist monks, or even autobiographies of great people like Ghandi and Malcolm X. Ultimately, you can never feel a higher power with your mind - --- although Albert Einstein's came as close to that as possible --- but it did help me see the oneness of all religions. I appreciate Buddhism very much. Although I don't consider myself Buddhist, I probably relate to it the most. The interrelatedness of all beings really resonates with me. I think later in my twenties I became more relaxed; I had a greater sense of self. I had already started achieving some of my dreams, so I was a little more calm. I was starting to practice yoga and beyond any explanation --- it's impossible to put into words --- I felt I had power. I felt it in my heart and that's the gateway where it is meant to be felt, not by the mind but by the heart. And I guess I just arrived at my own way. JPG: You mentioned yoga and reading. Are there other things you do now that help keep you grounded and focused on your search? PC: Essentially, I'm a vegan. There are times when you are on the road and literally foraging for food when you have to break down and eat cheese. But essentially, I'm a vegan. You can do exercises and practices to help you train the mind and the body, but essentially everything you do in life is part of a meditation. Believe me I screw up, but generally I feel very aware. JPG: The title track, "Amen" has a sense of mortality and millennial unity. Can you elaborate on what you wanted it to mean? PC: In "Amen" I'm asking the listener to be highly intuitive with me and go on a little roller coaster ride. I definitely have my opinions on each of the people or organizations that I mention in the song. But in the end, it's kind of a Buddhist philosophy. Because we are whole and interrelated; we are truly all one; we must forgive even those who are demonized or evil. Even those who are evil have goodness in their hearts; we must appeal to it. John Patrick Gatta is a widely published freelance writer living in Warren, Ohio. Contact him at jpg16@aol.com. - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 14:00:12 EDT From: "Kenneth Carpenter" Subject: Re: (harbinger) AGH!!! Chris Wright wrote: >I can't say anything about those into crystals but, as a vegan, I can >say that veggies are inclined to be well disposed to other veggies, >particularly celeb veggies, so an article about Paula in a veggie >magazine (assuming she is veggie) would certainly have a positive >impact on some of the readers. Yeah, I do think that the vegetarian/vegan angle could work in her favor with that group of consumers (although, as Steven pointed out, it does reinforce the hippie Lilith persona). However, as Paula mentions in the interview I just transcribed, she's "essentially" a vegan. When it comes to vegetarianism and veganism, you either are or you aren't. Otherwise, it's like saying you're sorta pregnant. A reliable source from within the Paula Cole camp has challenged even her veggie claim. This individual confirmed that while she strives idealistically for veganism, she often falls short, especially while on the road. And, allegedly, cheese isn't the only animal product that passes through her lips. Things that once had a pulse meet their ultimate fate in her digestive tract as well. It reminds me of all the folks I met during my years as a devout vegetarian who would say, "Well, I'm basically a vegetarian, but I do eat chicken and fish once a week or so." Kenn ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 14:07:25 EDT From: "Kenneth Carpenter" Subject: Re: (harbinger) AGH!!! Honoku wrote: >in my opinion it is the function of the artist in society, and in spirit, >to make new synthesis. to follow an inner trail, make new combinations that >work according to an inner muse, and screw the established well paved ways >to success. any mindless talent can follow a formula, an artist should find >a new way, thier own way, where in lies a personal satisfaction And that's a great viewpoint, but I'm unsure of one point. Did you think that our lovely Mr. Stewart's opinion was in conflict with your stance? Kenn ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 11:25:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Rachel Bussel Subject: (harbinger) veggie this is not to debate the defintions or non-definitions of vegetarianism, but speaking as someone who used to be vegan and is now a carnivore, I still think that if you want to help the earth/animals, even cutting back on your meat intake 10% is helping. Even if you cut back 90%, no, you are not a "vegetarian," but you are still eating fewer animals. rachel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 14:56:12 EDT From: Honoku@aol.com Subject: Re: (harbinger) AGH!!! In a message dated 5/31/2000 2:35:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, senchokid@hotmail.com writes: << And that's a great viewpoint, but I'm unsure of one point. Did you think that our lovely Mr. Stewart's opinion was in conflict with your stance? Kenn >> yes, i thought i heard concern for her career, and that that concern should alter what she says , when, where, and how. if i had any talent, and any success, i would hope to stay true to the art in my heart, and screw the business side of art. in a spiritual sense to continue to say, portray, that which is heartfelt, at all cost. so so many potential and budding artists lose what they have through making smart, or business decisions. steve - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 16:33:34 EDT From: "Kenneth Carpenter" Subject: Re: (harbinger) veggie Rachel Bussel?!! I thought you'd dropped off the face of the Earth, darlin'. Have you been subbed to Harbinger all this time? Last time I saw you was at Fleadh. Glad to hear from you again. :^D I'm a former veg, too. For medical reasons, I've been forced back to my original beast-eating ways (some folks just can't go veg for long without getting REALLY sick - even with supplements). I agree with you. Limiting your meat intake is a good thing, not only for the welfare of our furred, feathered and fishy friends but also for our own bodies and minds. Kenn >From: Rachel Bussel >Reply-To: harbinger@smoe.org >To: harbinger@smoe.org >Subject: (harbinger) veggie >Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 11:25:33 -0700 (PDT) > >this is not to debate the defintions or >non-definitions of vegetarianism, but speaking as >someone who used to be vegan and is now a carnivore, I >still think that if you want to help the >earth/animals, even cutting back on your meat intake >10% is helping. Even if you cut back 90%, no, you are >not a "vegetarian," but you are still eating fewer >animals. > >rachel > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com/ > >------------------------------ >To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: >unsubscribe harbinger > >Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will >work for your EVERY time. > >Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: >http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 19:59:41 EDT From: "Kenneth Carpenter" Subject: Re: (harbinger) AGH!!! Steve wrote: >yes, i thought i heard concern for her career, and that that concern should >alter what she says , when, where, and how. if i had any talent, and any >success, i would hope to stay true to the art in >my heart, and screw the business side of art. in a spiritual sense to >continue to say, portray, that which is heartfelt, at all cost. >so so many potential and budding artists lose what they have through >making smart, or business decisions. First, I just want to say that I think Steven will probably rebut this point all on his own so I want to make sure I don't come off like I'm putting any words his mouth. I think he does just fine with his own words. With that said, Steven's post didn't leave me with the impression that he felt the concerns of Paula's fans (or other outside influences) should prompt her to alter her behavior. I know Steven fairly well and he and I have had so many private discussions off the list about Paula, her music and her career that I feel pretty certain that's not what he was endorsing. However, some of us are really frustrated by her decisions, her politics and her behavior at times. More and more often, her actions seem to be contradicting what's coming out of her mouth in interviews. And while I don't think my opinion should matter to Paula, I'm still going to say what's on my mind and in my heart in this forum. Steve, I really think you might be giving Paula more benefit of the doubt than she necessarily merits if you are depicting her as an artist who lives and works exclusively for her art. Granted, she paints herself that way quite often, so I suppose if you are taking her based on the image she has created via her own public relations, it's understandable. But, I believe that particular image of Paula only holds a part of the truth about who she is. Like she says, she's complex - just like the rest of us. And within that complexity, you'll most assuredly find a businessperson. It's unavoidable. She's working for Warner Bros. The only way she could possibly avoid it is to start up her own label, like Ani DiFranco did. But she can't do that because she still owes Imago another four albums. Do I think that she usually tries to resort to shrewd public relations moves and spin-doctoring only when she feels it's going to nurture and promote her art? I'd really like to believe that. But who can say what's going on in her head really? Sometimes I wonder if she even has all that tight a grasp on it. One recent comment from Paula struck me not only as patently false, but as downright ungrateful. If you read Steve Bornstein's interview with her, then you saw her comments about Lilith Fair. For at least the second time in an interview, Paula said that, aside from the charities that received donations from Lilith Fair, she felt that Sarah McLachlan was the only person who benefited from the Fair. Now, who the hell does she think she's kidding?? Does she think none of us were there to see what was happening to her career during the Lilith days? Does anyone here actually believe that Paula would have gotten the exposure she received during the This Fire tour if it hadn't been for her well-publicized involvement in Lilith Fair and the sisterly connection between Paula and an already-established Sarah that the press latched on to and ran with? The likelihood is infinitesimal. The Grammy nominations, the TV exposure (especially the Dawson's Creek theme) and all the press coverage would have been a fraction of what they were if it hadn't been for her involvement in Lilith. Paula was the freakin' It Girl back then and she unquestionably owes Sarah and Lilith Fair for putting her in that catbird seat. It was the tone and content of those Lilith snipes that prompted me to refer to Paula's behavior as petulant. She has been snotty about the subject both times it has come up recently. Now, I am not aware of the full extent of the politics she had to cope with while on the tour, but I do know that a lot of her grievances at the time had to do with how much time she was getting on stage. As far as I could see, Paula was getting the same amount of time as everyone else, including bigger hitters than Paula was at that time- like Natalie Merchant and Indigo Girls. Maybe she thought she was owed more because she was on the trial Lilith tour (along with Lisa Loeb and someone else (Aimee Mann, maybe))? Maybe it was an ego trip. And that's just one example to support my contention that she is not just in this for the sake of her art. Would she be showing up on a show like Charmed if Amen wasn't gasping for air? No. She wouldn't. Obviously, she'd much prefer to be doing quality stuff like Sessions at West 54th. She's as much as slave to Warner Bros. as Prince was, so she has to be a businessperson. The art can find its audience in between the business deals. Now it seems she's just pissed off that people are listening to her music and naturally expecting that her other music will probably be pretty close to what they've already heard. That doesn't sound like all that outrageous an expectation to me. I wouldn't expect to buy a Merle Haggard CD only to find that the entire album had been devoted to his interpretation of hip hop music. It'd be interesting and I'd applaud his nerve just as I have Paula's. But I'd be surprised if he could pull it off very well. Paula seems to be miffed that the listening public isn't following her. Now THAT seems outrageous to me. Most people just aren't that open to new styles of music. Hell, I love Paula's music and you all know I don't like most of Amen. How can you expect the Dawson's-Cowboys crowd (who did put more than a few bucks in Paula's pocket) to start creamin' their jeans over "Rhythm Of Life"?? Get real. Steven brought up another point that has frustrated a lot of fans - Paula's desperate need for approval from the black community. It's not going to happen. It's just not. It never happened for Annie Lennox or George Michael or those other white "alternative soul" singers whose names escape me. And there's a reason for that. Paula has no credibility with black music fans and she'll never be able to establish any either because, by and large, the community she admires so much does not return her affections. Sure, she has had a couple of black boyfriends and now two of her bandmates are black. I'm sure she has a lot of black friends and I've seen a couple of black folks in the audience at her shows, too. But her acceptance by blacks is always going to remain at that personal/professional level. She has no chance of breaking through that particular curtain into the black music market because she plain well doesn't have anything they want. She's just crying for the moon. So, in closing, I'm glad that these issues have come up on the list. It's been too quiet around here. When Amen first came out, there was a brief barrage of posts from the two factions of fans - those who liked it and those who largely didn't like it. Then came a deafening silence where we apparently agreed to disagree. Hell, that might end up happening again after this thread dies out. But at least we're talking now. I'm anxious to hear what you all have to say about these issues. It's not just about the new album. It's about Paula. It's about her personality and her quirks. It's about her strengths and her faults. I hope more of you will be willing to add your thoughts to the mix. I'm hoping someone will give me a good reason to change my mind and see this whole scenario in a different light. Kenn ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 21:38:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian C Subject: Re: (harbinger) AGH!!! AMEN to everyone on this list!!! Now...when's the next album coming out??? I'm bored. Also, if the person who beat me out of the "Be Somebody" remixes is on this list, I expect a full review ASAP. thanks, bri bri - --- Kenneth Carpenter wrote: > Steve wrote: > > >yes, i thought i heard concern for her career, and > that that concern should > >alter what she says , when, where, and how. if i > had any talent, and any > >success, i would hope to stay true to the art in > >my heart, and screw the business side of art. in a > spiritual sense to > >continue to say, portray, that which is heartfelt, > at all cost. > >so so many potential and budding artists lose what > they have through > >making smart, or business decisions. > > First, I just want to say that I think Steven will > probably rebut this point > all on his own so I want to make sure I don't come > off like I'm putting any > words his mouth. I think he does just fine with his > own words. > > With that said, Steven's post didn't leave me with > the impression that he > felt the concerns of Paula's fans (or other outside > influences) should > prompt her to alter her behavior. I know Steven > fairly well and he and I > have had so many private discussions off the list > about Paula, her music and > her career that I feel pretty certain that's not > what he was endorsing. > > However, some of us are really frustrated by her > decisions, her politics and > her behavior at times. More and more often, her > actions seem to be > contradicting what's coming out of her mouth in > interviews. And while I > don't think my opinion should matter to Paula, I'm > still going to say what's > on my mind and in my heart in this forum. > > Steve, I really think you might be giving Paula more > benefit of the doubt > than she necessarily merits if you are depicting her > as an artist who lives > and works exclusively for her art. Granted, she > paints herself that way > quite often, so I suppose if you are taking her > based on the image she has > created via her own public relations, it's > understandable. But, I believe > that particular image of Paula only holds a part of > the truth about who she > is. Like she says, she's complex - just like the > rest of us. And within > that complexity, you'll most assuredly find a > businessperson. > > It's unavoidable. She's working for Warner Bros. > The only way she could > possibly avoid it is to start up her own label, like > Ani DiFranco did. But > she can't do that because she still owes Imago > another four albums. Do I > think that she usually tries to resort to shrewd > public relations moves and > spin-doctoring only when she feels it's going to > nurture and promote her > art? I'd really like to believe that. But who can > say what's going on in > her head really? Sometimes I wonder if she even has > all that tight a grasp > on it. > > One recent comment from Paula struck me not only as > patently false, but as > downright ungrateful. If you read Steve Bornstein's > interview with her, > then you saw her comments about Lilith Fair. For at > least the second time > in an interview, Paula said that, aside from the > charities that received > donations from Lilith Fair, she felt that Sarah > McLachlan was the only > person who benefited from the Fair. > > Now, who the hell does she think she's kidding?? > Does she think none of us > were there to see what was happening to her career > during the Lilith days? > Does anyone here actually believe that Paula would > have gotten the exposure > she received during the This Fire tour if it hadn't > been for her > well-publicized involvement in Lilith Fair and the > sisterly connection > between Paula and an already-established Sarah that > the press latched on to > and ran with? > > The likelihood is infinitesimal. > > The Grammy nominations, the TV exposure (especially > the Dawson's Creek > theme) and all the press coverage would have been a > fraction of what they > were if it hadn't been for her involvement in > Lilith. Paula was the > freakin' It Girl back then and she unquestionably > owes Sarah and Lilith Fair > for putting her in that catbird seat. > > It was the tone and content of those Lilith snipes > that prompted me to refer > to Paula's behavior as petulant. She has been > snotty about the subject both > times it has come up recently. > > Now, I am not aware of the full extent of the > politics she had to cope with > while on the tour, but I do know that a lot of her > grievances at the time > had to do with how much time she was getting on > stage. As far as I could > see, Paula was getting the same amount of time as > everyone else, including > bigger hitters than Paula was at that time- like > Natalie Merchant and Indigo > Girls. Maybe she thought she was owed more because > she was on the trial > Lilith tour (along with Lisa Loeb and someone else > (Aimee Mann, maybe))? > Maybe it was an ego trip. > > And that's just one example to support my contention > that she is not just in > this for the sake of her art. Would she be showing > up on a show like > Charmed if Amen wasn't gasping for air? No. She > wouldn't. Obviously, she'd > much prefer to be doing quality stuff like Sessions > at West 54th. She's as > much as slave to Warner Bros. as Prince was, so she > has to be a > businessperson. The art can find its audience in > between the business > deals. > > Now it seems she's just pissed off that people are > listening to her music > and naturally expecting that her other music will > probably be pretty close > to what they've already heard. That doesn't sound > like all that outrageous > an expectation to me. I wouldn't expect to buy a > Merle Haggard CD only to > find that the entire album had been devoted to his > interpretation of hip hop > music. It'd be interesting and I'd applaud his > nerve just as I have > Paula's. But I'd be surprised if he could pull it > off very well. > > Paula seems to be miffed that the listening public > isn't following her. Now > THAT seems outrageous to me. Most people just > aren't that open to new > styles of music. Hell, I love Paula's music and you > all know I don't like > most of Amen. How can you expect the > Dawson's-Cowboys crowd (who did put > more than a few bucks in Paula's pocket) to start > creamin' their jeans over > "Rhythm Of Life"?? Get real. > > Steven brought up another point that has frustrated > a lot of fans - Paula's > desperate need for approval from the black > community. It's not going > to happen. It's just not. It never happened for > Annie Lennox or George > Michael or those other white "alternative soul" > singers whose names escape > me. And there's a reason for that. Paula has no > credibility with black > music fans and she'll never be able to establish any > either because, by and > large, the community she admires so much does not > return her affections. > Sure, she has had a couple of black boyfriends and > now two of her bandmates > are black. I'm sure she has a lot of black friends > and I've seen a couple > of black folks in the audience at her shows, too. > But her acceptance by > blacks is always going to remain at that > personal/professional level. She > has no chance of breaking through that particular > curtain into the black > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! 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