From: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org (harbinger-digest) To: harbinger-digest@smoe.org Subject: harbinger-digest V4 #188 Reply-To: harbinger@smoe.org Sender: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk harbinger-digest Thursday, December 30 1999 Volume 04 : Number 188 HARBINGER DIGEST To post, mail harbinger@smoe.org To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger-digest To get list info file, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info harbinger-digest Today's Subjects: ---------------- Re: (harbinger) Article in St. Louis Post - Dispatch - Dec. 16, 1999 [Sco] (harbinger) Paula's hard rock live special [Fumbler310@aol.com] (harbinger) AMEN thoughts... [steven.stewart@nokia.com] (harbinger) AMEN. thoughts on God [steven.stewart@nokia.com] (harbinger) BE SOMEBODY Live [Brian C ] Re: (harbinger) BE SOMEBODY Live ["Chris Povie" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 03:52:11 EST From: Scoobedu@aol.com Subject: Re: (harbinger) Article in St. Louis Post - Dispatch - Dec. 16, 1999 Kenn says: " Personally, I'd love to see the next album centered around more mature, outwardly focused songwriting and less of the self-preoccupation and after-school-special sociological sentimentality of Amen." Finally, something that makes me say Amen:) I think she definitely has it in her to, we all have more than our share of mishaps. When I first listened to Amen, the first thought I had was, this reminds me of a self-help book. Her first albums seemed to be more of a biography, and we learned from her life, her pain; without her having to tell us the moral of the story. I guess I kind of missed that. " I just don't think Amen. is going to do much of anything to fix the damage that has been done for the past 200-and-some years between blacks and whites here in the U.S. because the people who make up half of that equation aren't listening to her music and the other half are listening but can't really figure out what the hell she's doing right now." I agree. I think it is noble to try and do something lofty with you music. However, it just did not work here. A few of the lines make me cringe. I always favor music that is personal, that is a result of the artist's experiences, and I love Paula, but what does a white girl from Rockport know about trigger happy policemen killing her dignity. I know that line and others come from a good place. The same place that exists in all of us, and is bothered in all of us, when we see police brutality. In these songs however it just sounds hollow to me. On that note I read this quote in The Pittsburgh Tribune: Paula says, "I was also very heavily influenced by artists like Aretha Franklin, Tina Turner, Marvin Gaye, Miles Davis and Bob Marley. I wanted to honor those people with this record, hoping it would appeal to people of all colors and maybe bring us all a little closer." We are the world. We are the children:) amy - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 04:09:15 EST From: Fumbler310@aol.com Subject: (harbinger) Paula's hard rock live special I just read on the hard rock live website, it will be premiering on January 29th at midnight, for 30 minutes, with Meridith Brooks' special occupying the other 30 minutes. Steve - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 11:45:04 +0200 From: steven.stewart@nokia.com Subject: (harbinger) AMEN thoughts... I have enjoyed reading the discussions about Amen. and the various reasons why it isn't selling well. (If anyone has the long article about Paula already printed, please email me. I haven't seen it.) This is a long post. Here's the summary: 1. America wasn't ready for armpit hair. 2. When the cost of CDs are rising, 9 songs feels like a ripoff 3. The non album tracks are better than most of the tracks on the album 4. Singing to the world isn't as effective as singing to the individual. With that said... Amy...if you haven't heard the non album tracks: Night, Billy Joe, Ring Finger, and the piano version of Ordinary, you need to find them. I think they will restore your faith in Paula. Oh, sorry. Guess I shouldn't talk about faith to an atheist. ;) The harmonies on Feelin Love will seduce you, but the rap will gag you. IDWTW 99 is really well done, but probably not for repeat listens over time, since the meat of the verses' lyrics are gone. One of the discussions spoke about her selling out by playing a new year's show, which turned the topic to armpit hair, which this list has probably heard quite enough of and is sick of. Since I think IBILove is a BRILLIANT piece of pop radio perfection and should have been an enormous hit, my opinion is that I actually think the armpit hair incidents on TV has unfortunately caused a big dent in the general public's enthusiasm for this project. Everyone seems to make some comment about "Oh, the hairy armpit woman" when they see her CD. In America, the hairy pits seem to be a big deal...how dare a sexy woman disrupt the American fashion ideal by showing her hot tummy, then raising her arms to see the hairy pit? Paula mentioned something about America's uptightness and repression about women's roles and sex. I agree. I can't speak for the masses, but I think the US view can't deal with an unshaven armpit or legs because it either says the woman "isn't clean" or doesn't care about her appearance (not true, but it is the perception)or that it somehow makes her less feminine, threatening the masculine sexuality when a man is attracted to something typically thought of as masculine on a woman. I personally applaud Paula's courage to make her choices when they are not popular, but also think it was a horrendous choice to make when she is not yet established enough (like Madonna and her fiascos of the SEX book and BODY OF EVIDENCE movie) to make a publically unpopular choice and be able to bounce back. People not only buy CDs because they love the music, but sometimes because it establishes their own identities. If someone buys an album that others think is totally uncool (George Michael after his arrest/ Vanilla Ice or Milli Vanilli after their 15 minutes of fame), even if they like the music, the mockery from others might not make them proud to show it off and brag about it. (OK. I am mostly talking about the Dawson's Creek age fans, but still...) Again, I think the armpit hair perception is making a bigger impact than she may think. How do I feel about the album after listening to it for quite a while now? I'm the wrong person to ask. I think only putting 9 songs on the album was a big mistake. I burned my own CD version of Amen. with the non album tracks and cut off Rhythm of Life at one of the breaks. I really LOVE that CD and have listened to it endlessly. I don't think the rapping in ROLife bothers me as much as the double repetition of the chorus forever and the overlong length of the song. I also think it is VERY indulgent for an artist to start a live show with a 9 minute version of a song that is not an established hit. I enjoyed the slow jam of the extended Feelin Love because the song was well known from a popular album and featured in a popular movie soundtrack(City of Angels). She also didn't play the extended version of LOVE until later in her show. I actually like RoLife fine...it just doesn't connect to me. Which I think is the problem with a lot of Amen. Pearl and IBILove seem to strike a lot of chords with most people I have talked to. The other songs are good, but too general in being specific. What do I mean? BE SOMEBODY is sending a mixed message. The people in the songs who are killed are those who do the established RIGHT thing. I think Paula is saying that she must hold onto the hope that doing the right thing is still right, even though the consequences may be unjust or bad...but the songs message of turning the other cheek and being brothers and sisters of God is being preached to the wrong audience and seems a little bit simplistic. What it comes down to, is the title is wrong. The song isn't about the selfish act of BEING SOMEBODY. It seems to want to be about loving others even when your natural reaction would be to want revenge or to lose faith in the goodness of the human race. LA TONYA's message is about wanting to BE SOMEBODY...but be somebody who she loves, not who she is through her life circumstances. Also, thanks to Mr. Love One Another Povie, we got to hear the live BE SOMEBODY. Her voice on the chorus sounds a MILLION times better live than on the CD (I hate her vocal production on the chorus of that song, though I really like the verses) But why oh why oh why didn't she play the piano on that song live? The guitar bass version was a little too empty for that song for me. I think adding a cool piano riff and groove to it would have given a great new version that would have helped me get past my problems with the song. (MORE) - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 12:15:41 +0200 From: steven.stewart@nokia.com Subject: (harbinger) AMEN. thoughts on God Lastly (Yes, I'm almost done), I think the God subject matter is fine when done well. I adore a lot of U2's music and songwriting because they talk a lot about struggling with faith and God and still believing and it doesn't seem forced on me. God is Watching Us sounds more BIG BROTHER than Heavenly Father. And even if Paula's personal belief is in the mixture of Christianity/Buddhism/Mother Nature, the messages seem a little schitzophrenic when listened to as a whole album. IBIL: God is us (The God in you, the God in me) AMEN: God is nature, we are not the individual, but the whole (I am not unique. We are all leaves on this great big tree) LA TONYA: Old Testament God...faith grows from trials like Job or the children of Israel who suffer while waiting for a saviour. Moses comes to free the slaves. (Still my faith's unshaken in God. Lord won't you please save me? Is this the new slavery?) BE SOMEBODY: Plurality of Gods. Heavenly Father and Mother. (We are all children of the Mother. We are all children of the Father) RHYTHM OF LIFE: Reincarnation/ Past lives(I began as Isis/ God energy fighting) SUWANNE JO: "Their Eyes Were Watching God"...I am not familiar with this book and though I like the song, I still don't understand the characters. GOD IS WATCHING: Indifferent God who watches humanities monstrosities without interfering (God is waiting for us to overcome. God is waiting for us to just love one another.) So, maybe there is a connection between the beliefs stated in the songs, but I think the beliefs are too vague to really get a grasp of. Gladys Knight (one of Paula's influences) just came out with a purely religious album called MANY DIFFERENT ROADS. It is really focused on the things she believes. I am not sure if it is selling well, but it there is no doubt of who she is or what she thinks about God after hearing the great songs. After listening to Amen, the message is so scattered and vague that even if SHE knows who she is and what message she wanted to give with this album...I don't come away with a sense that I understand it. "To the critics and the cynics who don't understand the lyrics..." I think the power of Harbinger and This Fire is that people dug deep into the lyrics to find a piece of themselves where the music and lyrics became a part of who they were or who they wanted to be. I really love the lines in ROLife "You may see me as a fool, yes, a charlatan, an egotist, but I'd rather be this is your eyes, than a coward in His." "May my actions outweigh my words" I think her intentions of good were stonger than her execution of the material. There is a lot to love about Amen. I actually like it better as a full album than This Fire which is too angry and harsh as a whole for me to enjoy as much as I did when I first bought it. (I wouldn't have AT ALL wanted another angry chick album from Paula. I still don't.) But no songs on Amen (with the exception of Pearl) speak to me as hauntingly as Me, IDWTW (before the oversaturation), and Neitzche's Eyes or for that matter Ordinary, Bethlehem, She Can't Feel, Happy Home...well, most of Harbinger. Does Paula preach on Amen? Sure, but I don't get the critisism of it, since Paula has preached on all of her albums about things she feels strongly about. Why is God is Watching Us any more preachy than Hitler's Brothers? Be Somebody more than Hush, Hush, Hush? La Tonya more than She Can't Feel Anything Anymore or Our Revenge? WHATCG? I think the biggest difference isn't in that she is preaching more, but that the songwriting is not as tight, the ironies not as bittersweet. But there is hope. Like I said before, I really love her new Bsides. NIGHT is searching and daring and poetic. (My favorite phrase..."big dark mystery" for vagina. It isn't used to shock like the unnecessary "fuck" in Amen. coupled clumsily with "garbage trucks".) BILLY JOE is searing with an amazing horn section. And I can't wait to hear the Dolly Parton duet. And if I remember correctly, This Fire took an awfully long time to actually catch fire. All in all, Amen could have balanced it's heavy overtones by adding more songs to it's meager 9. If WB wants to push the album, I really think they should do what Sheryl Crow did here in Europe and rerelease the album with extra tracks. Steven Stewart Helsinki, Finland Hear me roar: http://www.mp3.com/fakefinn - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 10:51:05 -0800 (PST) From: Brian C Subject: (harbinger) BE SOMEBODY Live Does anyone have the link that Povie sent awhile back? Thanks, Bri __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:51:39 -0500 From: "Chris Povie" Subject: Re: (harbinger) BE SOMEBODY Live Yes Povie does.... it's http://home.nycap.rr.com/povie/paula.rm - -----Original Message----- From: Brian C To: harbinger@smoe.org Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 1:56 PM Subject: (harbinger) BE SOMEBODY Live >Does anyone have the link that Povie sent awhile back? > >Thanks, >Bri > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com > >------------------------------ >To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: >unsubscribe harbinger > >Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will >work for your EVERY time. > >Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: >http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html > > - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ End of harbinger-digest V4 #188 *******************************