From: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org (harbinger-digest) To: harbinger-digest@smoe.org Subject: harbinger-digest V4 #187 Reply-To: harbinger@smoe.org Sender: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk harbinger-digest Wednesday, December 29 1999 Volume 04 : Number 187 HARBINGER DIGEST To post, mail harbinger@smoe.org To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger-digest To get list info file, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info harbinger-digest Today's Subjects: ---------------- Re: (harbinger) say amen - say thanks! [Ruediger Hanke Subject: Re: (harbinger) say amen - say thanks! > i will probably not be ordering any more music from amazon. after waiting 5 > weeks, and being willing to pay 29 dollars for the australian version of > amen, they sent me the japanese copy with no bonus disc. when i called to > complain, after waiting on hold forever, they explained that they do not do > the postings of what it is available that is left up to their distributors, > who ever they may be. Thanks to the person who posted the URL of sanity.com.au a while back - I was just about to order from Amazon.com which would have been hideously expensive for me (>>$10 shipping costs to Germany). They not only sent me the correct disc (much cheaper than Amazon.com's price) but also through a European distributor and it took the CD only three days to arrive after I made my order, and it did cost me only $3 shipping. Ruediger - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 14:47:05 EST From: Honoku@aol.com Subject: Re: (harbinger) say amen - say thanks! In a message dated 12/28/99 11:36:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, tomjoad@muenster.de writes: << I was just about to order from Amazon.com which would have been hideously expensive for me (>>$10 shipping costs to Germany) >> and they would not have reimbursed you for the shipping in either direction, even though it is their fault steve - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 16:50:46 -0500 From: Kenn Subject: Re: (harbinger) Article in St. Louis Post - Dispatch - Dec. 16, 1999 Amy says: >> Being introspective and seeing your mistakes is hard, I would imagine it to be >> a million times harder to try and do it in public. True, but I must say that I haven't witnessed Paula having any reticence before now about telling the public how she feels inside. In her lyrics and in interviews, she has been pretty forthcoming about her "monsters." It just seems that she is better at being introspective about the ghosts of Paula past than she is about the demons in her present. Perhaps she needs some distance to be able to see herself. >> I think if it takes a lot of nerve to get up and do that, and that it would take >> more nerve than most people had to admit maybe your product, your baby >> was not so good. Yeah, that would be a tough pill to swallow. I don't know, though. I mean, I can look back at the writing I did even a year ago and see that it wasn't as good as I thought it was then. I can make that confession openly to anybody without feeling like a big loser. Of course, I don't have as much at stake in that admission as would Paula in similar circumstances. After all, no one has paid hard-earned money for my writing and no one is waving a recording contract in my face, reminding me that I owe them four more records that they'd like to see flying off the shelves. It's probably easier to be candid with my feelings about my work product because I don't have fans to keep happy or the WB breathing down my neck. But, all that aside, maybe Paula will see Amen. in a different light given time. Perhaps then she'll better understand the public's reaction to the songs and be able to take some of the credit for Amen's lackluster sales. At the same time, she still can give herself an 'at-a-girl because the album sounds phenomenal due in no small part to her increasingly proficient production skills. And, there are a few really good songs on the album, in addition to the non-album tracks. >> I hope if she cannot do it in print, she can do it in private and we can see the >> results on the next album. I agree, Amy. Personally, I'd love to see the next album centered around more mature, outwardly focused songwriting and less of the self-preoccupation and after-school-special sociological sentimentality of Amen. and some her past work. A co-producer could be interesting. Also, I'd be very happy to hear no more of the R&B/hip-hop stuff from her. Once is enough. >> However, (and this is just me) I do not enjoy it when she sings about it. Not >> because it offends me, but because I have no connection to God. I am the >> cynical atheist she speaks of. So, since I have no connection to God, I really >> have no connection to the song she is singing, and I used to feel connected >> to her songs. It's not just you, Amy. I feel that way, too, and it would appear there are many others who echo our feelings. Each of us has his/her own take on spirituality and evidently Paula has her ideas, too. I just don't know that Paula could ever make a *pop* album (with such strong religious overtones) a financial or critical success given the wide range of religious backgrounds from which her fan base and the critics come. How could you possibly do it without the whole thing coming off hollow? One would have to present a generalized or watered-down view of spirituality to have any hope for mass appeal that kind of cross-section. If it gets too specific or too preachy, many listeners probably will feel alienated. And, of course, the other alternative is to shoot for the gospel or Christian rock audiences, almost completely alienating your established fan base. The same holds true for the "urban" dynamic in this album. Whether she likes it or not, generally speaking, blacks are not buying her music - and, yes, I suppose I mean that figuratively as well as literally. Folks of other ethnicities seem to eat her up, but black folks don't show up in her audiences as often as I think she would like and they certainly aren't coming out in droves to give her any credence as an R&B artist. I have asked some of the blacks I know from work and my own personal life to listen to my Paula CDs. They all pretty much know who she is because of me. They know about her background and most of them have seen her on TV or heard WHATCG at least once. Without exception, every one of them has acknowledged that they think she has a very good voice, but each admits that he/she would probably never buy Paula's CDs or go see her live. They admit that they just don't take her seriously as an R&B artist. One guy told me, after listening to Amen., that he honestly sees her as trying to be little more than another Vanilla Ice. He told me that he wants to listen to R&B artists who come from a background that gives the artist believability when he hears her sing the lyrics. Bottom line: Paula doesn't have street cred with a lot of the urban blacks she's singing for and about. I guess it's like they say... it's the thought that counts. She's trying to open a dialogue between two cultures that likely will never come close to repairing the schism that exists between them. Surely we can't fault her for that. I just don't think Amen. is going to do much of anything to fix the damage that has been done for the past 200-and-some years between blacks and whites here in the U.S. because the people who make up half of that equation aren't listening to her music and the other half are listening but can't really figure out what the hell she's doing right now. Kenn - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ End of harbinger-digest V4 #187 *******************************