From: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org (harbinger-digest) To: harbinger-digest@smoe.org Subject: harbinger-digest V4 #172 Reply-To: harbinger@smoe.org Sender: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk harbinger-digest Tuesday, November 30 1999 Volume 04 : Number 172 HARBINGER DIGEST To post, mail harbinger@smoe.org To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger-digest To get list info file, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info harbinger-digest Today's Subjects: ---------------- (harbinger) Paula Cole Band-Tonite [Momrox1@aol.com] (harbinger) (off-topic) link [Kelly L Murphy ] (harbinger) Paula Cole - Social Pariah [Kenneth R Carpenter ] Re: (harbinger) fun email addresses... [Kenneth R Carpenter Subject: (harbinger) (off-topic) link hey everyone -- some people i know have been receiving pretty decent checks using this link so thought i'd pass the word...sorry if you think i'm out of line by sending this, but i saw someone sending it through another mailing list i'm subscribed too and it's a really awesome program. http://www.sendmoreinfo.com/id/248269 please delete if you aren't interested, but its worth a shot! sorry if i pissed anyone off. later, kelly - --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:52:33 -0500 From: Kenneth R Carpenter Subject: (harbinger) Paula Cole - Social Pariah .. continued from previous post... Paula Cole is a musician who wants to make her music and make a lot of money in the process. You shouldn't fault her because she doesn't care about being a hero. She owes you, me and the rest of her fans absolutely nothing. She makes the music and she goes on tour. If she throws us a bone now and again by hanging out after the show or talking about her private life in interviews, that's just gravy. Your $15 bucks pays for the CD. Your $20 pays for the concert. She gets to decide whether or not you have any input as to the rest of her life. >> It is as if she is trying to conform to some image of a rock star, and to me >> she was always the antithesis of conformity. This show in NYC, to me, is >> just further proof of that. Paula wrote songs about the pain of exclusion, >> and not having the money, clothes or shoes to fit in. Now she is giving >> business to a place that is the epitome of exclusion! Have you ever been to New York City on New Year's Eve? The places with the best parties want their guests to take a shower and leave the Birkenstocks at home. I guess they figure that we can look like we're walking around at Lilith Fair or Lollapalooza the other 364 days of the year so we won't mind loosening our death grip on our precious individuality and nonconformity for one night by dressing up and throwing on a little lip gloss for the sake of a potentially good time. Also, I'm quite sure she didn't set the ticket prices. Even if she is aware of how much the tickets are going for, I don't think she should be expected to back out just because a lot of her fans won't spend or can't afford that kind of money. There are still a lot of her fans who can and will fork over the bucks. It's unfortunate that we can't all make lots of money, but the haves shouldn't be forced to do without this particular Paula show out of deference to the have-nots. It's the last New Year's Eve of the 20th century and it's New York City. If you're planning to be here, you won't be able to wipe your ass for less than $100-$150 per person that night no matter where you go. It's not like the have-nots stood much of a chance in the first place. Don't damn Paula for that. Condemn the consumers in this country who shuffle like sheep to the mall or the supermarket to purchase a sense of group acceptance and belonging by buying what the TV commercials, Entertainment Tonight and MTV tell them to buy. Lynch the folks who beat the crap out of each holiday season to get the last Furby or Tickle-Me Elmo in stock. Chastise the unthinking masses who flock to every Will Smith movie to hit the big screen and spend the rest of the evening talking about what a good actor he is. Kill the people who danced to the Macarena. It's their fault that ticket prices, in general, are going sky-high. >> Harbinger is still one of my favorite albums of all time, it is intensely >> personal to me, and I find it remarkable that anyone could write >> such emotionally wrenching songs. When she returns to that person, I >> will return to being a fan. Oh, shoot... she's probably already unsubbed from the list then. All that for nothing. ;) Peace. Kenn ****************************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. This message may be an attorney-client communication and as such is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. ****************************************************************************** - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:52:08 -0500 From: Kenneth R Carpenter Subject: (harbinger) Paula Cole: Social Pariah Amy wrote: >> Maybe since Kenn is not female he did not realize a few things. But for >> females (esp. ones in the public eye) the decision not to wear a bra >> and not to shave is a big deal. Not every woman is a staunch feminist. And here's another surprise... one doesn't have to be of a specific gender to understand the thought processes and/or emotional responses of another sex. Whether or not Paula Cole (or any other person, for that matter) goes without a bra or neglects armpit-shaving in his or her ablutions is NOT a big deal. Turn on the news. Read a newspaper. Look outside your window. There are a lot of big deals going on in the world around us - violence, ignorance, poverty, environmental catastrophes, social unrest, political corruption, etc. - but the decisions Paula makes regarding her undergarments and underarm hair do not come anywhere close to rating up there with the big deals. We would all need to do some serious reprioritizing of our value systems if that was truly the case. >> By not doing those things you will receive kudos and harassment from >> varying groups. I mean she even went so far as to write a letter to an >> editor for airbrushing out her pit hair. She was making a statement. >> When you change that statement you are changing your image. >> When it changes to wearing a Wonderbra, you are making an attempt to >> market your appearance and sexuality. That is disappointing to me. She >> has always been highly sexual. But it was natural, not like this. It is as if >> she is trying to conform to some image of a rock star, and to me she was >> always the antithesis of conformity. Perhaps we shouldn't place such heavy expectations on these musicians and then we wouldn't end up disappointed if they decide to be something different or if they go through a period of doing stuff we think is stupid or a bad idea. What the hell kind of right do we have to expect them to be anything in particular? Doesn't she have the right to change or, at the very least, be contradictory? I want that right for myself. I'd guess you do, too. I mean you said yourself that you maxxed out your credit cards, got canned from your job and dropped out of school just to follow Paula from Florida to Minnesota. Personally, I think that your decision to allow those other aspects of your life to fall to the wayside just to go see Paula sing was really stupid, immature and irresponsible and that your actions contradict the your ideologies. However, I also defend your right to make that decision for yourself. That's freedom. It was your decision to view Paula as a role model for yourself. Perhaps that's an awful lot of pressure and an unrealistic expectation to put on someone you don't know intimately who is just nicely getting her career off the ground and trying to deal with the never-ending hassles imposed on her by music industry schmucks. Oh, and let's not forget that she's looking down the barrel of another huge tour and working with a lot of new personalities in her band and crew. She had a long-term relationship bite the dust this year and she's working on keeping a new relationship afloat. All that is going on and she still has to feed the cats and remember to buy tampons. Put yourself in her shoes for a minute or two. Do you think you'd care much what people thought about your changing image (especially if you were OK with who you were)? Even if you did care, do you think you'd have the time or energy to change it (if you were so inclined)? .... to be continued.... ****************************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. This message may be an attorney-client communication and as such is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. ****************************************************************************** - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 18:02:16 -0500 From: "Paula Remick" Subject: Re: (harbinger) Paula Cole - Social Pariah what more is to say Kenn?? bravo. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenneth R Carpenter To: Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 5:52 PM Subject: (harbinger) Paula Cole - Social Pariah > .. continued from previous post... > > Paula Cole is a musician who wants to make her music and make a lot of money in the process. You shouldn't fault her because she doesn't care about being a hero. She owes you, me and the rest of her fans absolutely nothing. She makes the music and she goes on tour. If she throws us a bone now and again by hanging out after the show or talking about her private life in interviews, that's just gravy. Your $15 bucks pays for the CD. Your $20 pays for the concert. She gets to decide whether or not you have any input as to the rest of her life. > > >> It is as if she is trying to conform to some image of a rock star, and to me > >> she was always the antithesis of conformity. This show in NYC, to me, is > >> just further proof of that. Paula wrote songs about the pain of exclusion, > >> and not having the money, clothes or shoes to fit in. Now she is giving > >> business to a place that is the epitome of exclusion! > > Have you ever been to New York City on New Year's Eve? The places with the best parties want their guests to take a shower and leave the Birkenstocks at home. I guess they figure that we can look like we're walking around at Lilith Fair or Lollapalooza the other 364 days of the year so we won't mind loosening our death grip on our precious individuality and nonconformity for one night by dressing up and throwing on a little lip gloss for the sake of a potentially good time. > > Also, I'm quite sure she didn't set the ticket prices. Even if she is aware of how much the tickets are going for, I don't think she should be expected to back out just because a lot of her fans won't spend or can't afford that kind of money. There are still a lot of her fans who can and will fork over the bucks. It's unfortunate that we can't all make lots of money, but the haves shouldn't be forced to do without this particular Paula show out of deference to the have-nots. It's the last New Year's Eve of the 20th century and it's New York City. If you're planning to be here, you won't be able to wipe your ass for less than $100-$150 per person that night no matter where you go. It's not like the have-nots stood much of a chance in the first place. Don't damn Paula for that. > > Condemn the consumers in this country who shuffle like sheep to the mall or the supermarket to purchase a sense of group acceptance and belonging by buying what the TV commercials, Entertainment Tonight and MTV tell them to buy. Lynch the folks who beat the crap out of each holiday season to get the last Furby or Tickle-Me Elmo in stock. Chastise the unthinking masses who flock to every Will Smith movie to hit the big screen and spend the rest of the evening talking about what a good actor he is. Kill the people who danced to the Macarena. It's their fault that ticket prices, in general, are going sky-high. > > >> Harbinger is still one of my favorite albums of all time, it is intensely > >> personal to me, and I find it remarkable that anyone could write > >> such emotionally wrenching songs. When she returns to that person, I > >> will return to being a fan. > > Oh, shoot... she's probably already unsubbed from the list then. All that for nothing. ;) > > Peace. > > Kenn > > > **************************************************************************** ** > The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. This message may be an attorney-client communication and as such is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. > **************************************************************************** ** > ! > > > ------------------------------ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe harbinger > > Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will > work for your EVERY time. > > Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: > http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html > > - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 18:06:38 -0500 From: Kelly L Murphy Subject: Re: (harbinger) Paula Cole - Social Pariah No offense to the original poster, but RIGHT ON, Kenn.............no more needs to be said..... Forever a fan, Kelly The Innocence Mission: http://www.kneelingelephant.com Sixpence None The Richer: http://www.sixpence-ntr.com Chevelle: http://www.chevelleinc.com five o'clock people: http://www.fiveoclockpeople.com *Squint Entertainment: http://www.squinterland.com - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 18:13:46 -0500 (EST) From: April Dunetz Subject: Re: (harbinger) Paula Cole - Social Pariah gosh, this has been quite a scene... can't somebody just say AMEN (or as it literally means "so be it.") On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Paula Remick wrote: > what more is to say Kenn?? bravo. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kenneth R Carpenter > To: > Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 5:52 PM > Subject: (harbinger) Paula Cole - Social Pariah > > > > .. continued from previous post... > > > > Paula Cole is a musician who wants to make her music and make a lot of > money in the process. You shouldn't fault her because she doesn't care > about being a hero. She owes you, me and the rest of her fans absolutely > nothing. She makes the music and she goes on tour. If she throws us a bone > now and again by hanging out after the show or talking about her private > life in interviews, that's just gravy. Your $15 bucks pays for the CD. > Your $20 pays for the concert. She gets to decide whether or not you have > any input as to the rest of her life. > > > > >> It is as if she is trying to conform to some image of a rock star, and > to me > > >> she was always the antithesis of conformity. This show in NYC, to me, > is > > >> just further proof of that. Paula wrote songs about the pain of > exclusion, > > >> and not having the money, clothes or shoes to fit in. Now she is > giving > > >> business to a place that is the epitome of exclusion! > > > > Have you ever been to New York City on New Year's Eve? The places with > the best parties want their guests to take a shower and leave the > Birkenstocks at home. I guess they figure that we can look like we're > walking around at Lilith Fair or Lollapalooza the other 364 days of the year > so we won't mind loosening our death grip on our precious individuality and > nonconformity for one night by dressing up and throwing on a little lip > gloss for the sake of a potentially good time. > > > > Also, I'm quite sure she didn't set the ticket prices. Even if she is > aware of how much the tickets are going for, I don't think she should be > expected to back out just because a lot of her fans won't spend or can't > afford that kind of money. There are still a lot of her fans who can and > will fork over the bucks. It's unfortunate that we can't all make lots of > money, but the haves shouldn't be forced to do without this particular Paula > show out of deference to the have-nots. It's the last New Year's Eve of the > 20th century and it's New York City. If you're planning to be here, you > won't be able to wipe your ass for less than $100-$150 per person that night > no matter where you go. It's not like the have-nots stood much of a chance > in the first place. Don't damn Paula for that. > > > > Condemn the consumers in this country who shuffle like sheep to the mall > or the supermarket to purchase a sense of group acceptance and belonging by > buying what the TV commercials, Entertainment Tonight and MTV tell them to > buy. Lynch the folks who beat the crap out of each holiday season to get > the last Furby or Tickle-Me Elmo in stock. Chastise the unthinking masses > who flock to every Will Smith movie to hit the big screen and spend the rest > of the evening talking about what a good actor he is. Kill the people who > danced to the Macarena. It's their fault that ticket prices, in general, > are going sky-high. > > > > >> Harbinger is still one of my favorite albums of all time, it is > intensely > > >> personal to me, and I find it remarkable that anyone could write > > >> such emotionally wrenching songs. When she returns to that person, I > > >> will return to being a fan. > > > > Oh, shoot... she's probably already unsubbed from the list then. All that > for nothing. ;) > > > > Peace. > > > > Kenn > > > > > > > **************************************************************************** > ** > > The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the > personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. This message > may be an attorney-client communication and as such is privileged and > confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or > an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are > hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any > review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify > us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. > > > **************************************************************************** > ** > > > ! > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > > unsubscribe harbinger > > > > Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will > > work for your EVERY time. > > > > Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: > > http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe harbinger > > Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will > work for your EVERY time. > > Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: > http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html > > - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 20:23:08 -0500 (EST) From: April Dunetz Subject: (harbinger) fun email addresses... hey did anyone else make a paulacole.com email address? i made one a few weeks ago and it's thisfire@paulacole.com, i'm wondering what names people chose, it's kinda cool to be something @ paulacole.com... i hope this will be the start of an alleviation of the paula is this, paula is that argument... april - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 20:47:07 -0500 From: Kenneth R Carpenter Subject: Re: (harbinger) fun email addresses... April wrote: >> i hope this will be the start of an alleviation of the paula is this, paula is >> that argument... That wasn't an argument. It was just viewpoints being discussed. There's really nothing bad about speaking your mind around here. You might very well gets responses from others who don't agree with you (and sometimes that can't be uncomfortable if you're thin-skinned), but it sure beats the mind-numbing silence that usually pervades the list these days. Peace. Kenn ****************************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. This message may be an attorney-client communication and as such is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. ****************************************************************************** - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 20:48:37 -0500 From: Kenneth R Carpenter Subject: (harbinger) Correction I wrote: >> that can't be uncomfortable Yeah... meant that CAN be uncomfortable. Typo. Tired. Bye. Kenn ****************************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. This message may be an attorney-client communication and as such is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. ****************************************************************************** - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:55:12 EST From: Scoobedu@aol.com Subject: Re: (harbinger) Paula Cole - Social Pariah In a message dated 11/29/99 2:49:51 PM PST, kcarpenter@thacherproffitt.com writes: << Your $20 pays for the concert. She gets to decide whether or not you have any input as to the rest of her life. >> I do not want any input in her life. All I was saying is I did not enjoy the recent changes. Just as you spent SEVERAL e-mails rating every song on Paula's album and stating your opinion on every song, I was simply stating my opinion on what she was doing, not trying to have some input in her life. <> Most of my time is spent out of Birkenstocks and showered thank you. I do not have a deat grip on individuality. On about 80% of the things in the world I am a conformist. What I find ridiculous is the notion that somehow the clothes you are wearing make you more eligible to watch someone peform. These kinds of clubs do not exist so that we will all find a sense of style, they exist to exclude those who do not meet some abstract standard. I find that kind of mentality contradictory to Paula's music. And when she is selling herself as some kind of nouveau preacher, I think an old phrase is appropriate, practice what you preach. <> Then I guess that means I should condemn you. I mean you are a sheeplike consumer running out to this concert, and buying into all of this Millenium bullshit. This Millenium crap is a bigger gimmicky, hoaky, marketing ploy than the Macarena, Tickle Me Elmo and the Furby rolled together. So feel free to go to the concert and enjoy yourself. Whatever happens though it will not be as good (even though I know you would never admit it) as the $10.00 shows Paula poured her heart into early in her career. With that I say AMEN. amy - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:07:08 -0800 (PST) From: Brian C Subject: (harbinger) Paula Cole - Live Webnoize Concert You can download the VH 1 webnoize concert at http://www.vh1.com/insidevh1/events/paula_cole/index.jhtml I hope you all enjoy and hope that everyone had a fantastic Thanksgiving. Love, Bri __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ End of harbinger-digest V4 #172 *******************************