From: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org (harbinger-digest) To: harbinger-digest@smoe.org Subject: harbinger-digest V4 #109 Reply-To: harbinger@smoe.org Sender: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk harbinger-digest Friday, September 10 1999 Volume 04 : Number 109 HARBINGER DIGEST To post, mail harbinger@smoe.org To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger-digest To get list info file, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info harbinger-digest Today's Subjects: ---------------- Re: (harbinger) paula cole, and more. [Kenneth R Carpenter ] Re: (harbinger) ny info [JENFER7193@aol.com] Re: (harbinger) ny info [JENFER7193@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:46:28 -0400 From: Kenneth R Carpenter Subject: Re: (harbinger) paula cole, and more. Now, that's what I like to hear! A vehement opinion! And a good sense of humor, hol. :^) hol wrote: >> ... i never said that artists that don't write/play their own songs didn't >> HAVE talent. sure, they can sing but my point is, they just don't >> earn my RESPECT. And that's what matters to a lot of us. In fact, I would guess that would matter to almost anyone who appreciates Paula and her music (all her music... not just the fairweathers who love that Cowboys song or the Dawson's Creek theme). How can you not learn the difference in the performance and lyrics you get from someone who *knows* and *feels* the music they're creating (or re-creating, in the case of cover tunes) and someone who is really just a hired gun? I don't enjoy those few BS Boys because I have even an iota of respect for them as musicians/songwriters/producers/etc. As Steve said, it's not art. It's just music. Basicially, I just like the way they sing sometimes. It's fun to sing along with them while I'm driving, cleaning the apartment or the like. The lyrics of the songs they sing are low-calorie fluff. But I like a little fluff in between healthy helpings of the weighty stuff. It's like a musical palate cleanser. Backstreet Boys Sorbet. >> i also didn't say that songwriters can never ever cover a song. where did >> i say that? i'm talking, (yes, thank you journey bear) of the people that >> are only in it for the money. it takes away from the whole meaning of >> music for me, and it should for everyone else. Whoa! I was right with you up until that last line. I want to get clarification, though. Maybe I'm misunderstanding because I'm right there bearing witness for you on all the other stuff we've been talking about. So, anyway... First, are you saying that no one should derive any kind of personal meaning from the musical stylings of the Jennifer Lopezes or Joey Lawrences of the music world? And second, are you saying that, even if they aren't capable of deriving any actual meaning from the music - be that the fault of the musical content or their own limited mental/emotional capacity - that they shouldn't even be allowed to enjoy it for the sake of pure unthinking pleasure? Peace. Kenn ****************************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. This message may be an attorney-client communication and as such is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. ****************************************************************************** - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:47:06 EDT From: AberGuy18@aol.com Subject: (harbinger) Re: harbinger-digest V4 #108 i apologize to hol for making her feel misunderstood. and i'm really glad to hear that she has natalie's cd and her singles as well. i don't understand how natalie got put into the class with those that don't write their own songs, though. oh well. it definitely brings up some very valid arguments for both sides. one of my largest disappointments is the lack of credit that ani difranco received when alana davis covered 32 flavors. i'm a big ani fan, and i also like alana as well, but i felt that ani wasn't given the true credit. it's one thing to cover a song, but it's another to actually feel it and create it. i am the biggest sheryl crow fan. and i have a lot of respect for her in many aspects. she covered mississippi on her last album [bob dylan gave it to her- a throwaway from his album as steven pointed out], and every time i hear her talk about the song, she thanks dylan and gives him the credit, as it is justly deserved. the same with joan osborne and 'one of us'. she always is lending credit to eric bazilian [who basically co-wrote amanda marshall's album- it is great isn't it steven!]. but basically- i confused hol's point of losing respect for artists in it for the money, with artists who do covers period. so i'm sorry.. no hard feelings? =) but i'm glad that we had this talk, because i've learned so much about all of you- i'm so glad to see that many of you like some of the same artists that i do that in my area are pretty obscure [amanda marshall, joan osborne, etc.]. i live in utah. please- no sympathy. =) anyway- i hope to be talking with all of you again really soon! thanks for the fun! - -preston - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:24:37 -0400 (EDT) From: jason and jill Subject: Re: (harbinger) paula cole, and more. > > >> ... i never said that artists that don't write/play their own songs didn't > >> HAVE talent. sure, they can sing but my point is, they just don't > >> earn my RESPECT. > > How can you not learn the difference in the performance and lyrics you > get from someone who *knows* and *feels* the music they're creating > (or re-creating, in the case of cover tunes) and someone who is really > just a hired gun? One of the reasons I've always found this whole argument pretty silly is that rock/pop is one of the few genres in music where there is any expectation that any particular musician plays, sings and writes his/her music. How much music did Ella Fitzgerald write? Or Maria Callas? Or Elizabeth Schwartzkopf? None combined, of course. Nor did they play instruments. Can't RESPECT Ella Fitzgerald? Gimme a break. Rock/pop musicians are likely the least formally trained of all musicians (many a jazz player can't read music, but is expected to go through years of fairly anonymous sideman playing), but are for whatever bizarre reasons expected to have the broadest of skills. It's all rather ridiculous and limiting, and the number of one hit wonder acts and artists is easy to predict when these folks aren't permitted, due to various fussy rock ideologies, to simply be musicians and exercise the skills they have. And, you know what...if you have skills it isn't such a bad thing to occasionally earn some money for having them. Jason - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:12:19 -0400 From: Kenneth R Carpenter Subject: (harbinger) Bowery Ballroom Tickets Are On Sale!!! This is for Paula's show at 8:00 p.m. on Tuesday, October 12th. Tickets are $15 each. Go to: http://www.ticketweb.com/user/?region=nyc&query=schedule&venue=bowery&next=67129 You'll see Paula's show listed and you can buy your tickets from there. If paying with a credit card doesn't work for you, I believe you also can buy tickets in person at the Mercury Lounge. Peace. Kenn ****************************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. This message may be an attorney-client communication and as such is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. ****************************************************************************** - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:08:49 EDT From: JENFER7193@aol.com Subject: (harbinger) ny info hi all! i'm thinking about taking a greyhound to new york to see paula in october, but i've never been to new york before so i'm hoping that some of you can help me. i'm wondering how far the venue is from the greyhound station and if there are hotels near? if someone could e-mail me privately, i would greatly appreciate it!! thanks in advance! jenifer - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:14:57 EDT From: Scoobedu@aol.com Subject: (harbinger) Info Needed Please Hello, Hearing that Paula is going to be touring again has me all excited. Every time she tours I like to go see her in a city I have never been in. I would really love to go see her in Toronto...however I am having difficulty trying to find a way to purchase tickets to the show. If anyone could help I would greatly appreciate it....I am dying to see her perform again. thanks amy - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:57:49 EDT From: DWspinTHIS@aol.com Subject: (harbinger) songwriters and more... In a message dated 9/9/99 3:56:28 PM Central Daylight Time, AberGuy18@aol.com writes: << i am the biggest sheryl crow fan >> no way, man, i'm the biggest sheryl fan :-) anyway, to kenn and anyone who was wondering, what i meant by "the music loses meaning to me when the artist is only in it for the money" means just that. it's just my opinion, and i was just sharing it. it's up to the listener, overall, to decide what he/she likes i think it's really cool when everyone can relate their opinions with other people (such as this list, harbinger has thus far held number one with me, even through that dry spell not to long ago!) kenn asked << First, are you saying that no one should derive any kind of personal meaning from the musical stylings of the Jennifer Lopezes or Joey Lawrences of the music world? >> the answer, for me, is no. they may sing a nice lyric or something, perhaps something quotable, but in my opinion, then i'm just misquoting someone, and i just personally hate to do that. << And second, are you saying that, even if they aren't capable of deriving any actual meaning from the music - be that the fault of the musical content or their own limited mental/emotional capacity - that they shouldn't even be allowed to enjoy it for the sake of pure unthinking pleasure? >> i feel that's what one hit wonders are for :-) and now before someone posts and clobers me for not being on topic, i'll just end by saying that i do feel that it's okay for an artist to have an early album start out not much of their own, but as they go on, more and more of their own songs are being written and performed. after all, sheryl crow started that way. and like amanda marshall is doing, i'm glad to see that she's starting to bring her own lyrics to the album, and i couldn't have wanted a better writer to help her out (eric bazilian) because i absolutely love joan osborne and billie meyers, and now amanda marshall hol - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:04:21 -0400 From: "Chris Povie" Subject: Re: (harbinger) ny info Jen writes: hi all! i'm thinking about taking a greyhound to new york to see paula in october, but i've never been to new york before so i'm hoping that some of you can help me. i'm wondering how far the venue is from the greyhound station and if there are hotels near? if someone could e-mail me privately, i would greatly appreciate it!! thanks in advance! jenifer Well Jenifer; If you have blond hair and are pretty you can stay at my house! Let me know if you "qualify".... CP - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:18:59 EDT From: JENFER7193@aol.com Subject: Re: (harbinger) ny info - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:19:46 EDT From: JENFER7193@aol.com Subject: Re: (harbinger) ny info sorry chris... i have black hair, but still pretty...and involved. so, if you have any helpful info, that would be appreciated:) thanks! jenifer - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Btw, if you are an AOL subscriber the above instruction will work for your EVERY time. Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html ------------------------------ End of harbinger-digest V4 #109 *******************************