From: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org (harbinger-digest) To: harbinger-digest@smoe.org Subject: harbinger-digest V3 #248 Reply-To: harbinger@smoe.org Sender: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk harbinger-digest Thursday, August 27 1998 Volume 03 : Number 248 HARBINGER DIGEST To post, mail harbinger@smoe.org To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger-digest To get list info file, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info harbinger-digest Today's Subjects: ---------------- (harbinger) the evil deeds of Bob Snyder (was: A Thought Or Two From Kenn (fwd)) [Calli ] (harbinger) Re: Morons [".." ] (harbinger) N**i tactics [".." ] (harbinger) Fwd: *AR* Album Title /Partial Tracklisting CONFIRMED-- MTV Report [MLevine171@] (harbinger) NTC, NPC, NMC Lilith Fair Program and Rufus Wainright? [Icic] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 04:46:21 -0400 From: Calli Subject: (harbinger) the evil deeds of Bob Snyder (was: A Thought Or Two From Kenn (fwd)) DOSHIA98@aol.com wrote: > And if you plan on insulting Cole then what the hell are you doing here > anyway? Hmmm... My guess is to get you and the rest of people who pay any attention to him all riled up and fussing. Congratulations for falling in line and playing along. When will people ever learn? Calli - -- Nobody can be exactly like me. Sometimes even I have trouble doing it. - --Tallulah Bankhead - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 05:47:10 EDT From: Kellykell9@aol.com Subject: Re: (harbinger) How does one moron-proof a list? In a message dated 8/25/98 11:25:05 PM EST, MAXMOUZE@aol.com writes: << Mark, CA, "Tiger" >> Kelly, MA, god if i had to pick one........"Mississippi" - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 06:00:04 EDT From: Copygurl@aol.com Subject: Re: (harbinger) a few questions about harbinger In a message dated 98-08-25 18:27:28 EDT, rachel wrote: > > Finally, who has any Paula-relevant material? Isn't that what this thing > >is all about? > > This whole devolution of the list is an interesting microcosm and a > reflection of the nature of Paula's ascent to mass popularity. Think of harbinger > way back in the early days.. a small, fun, enjoyable place to exchange ideas, > insights and excitement with other people with a strong interest in and discerning > ear for good music along with a strong connection to Paula's songs. I'm theorizing > here, but I think we tended to be from off the beaten path, perfering to find our own > way and thereby make our own discoveries in out of the way places. (translation: > triple-A radio playlists do not constitute our CD collections) > > The media pre-digests the vast amount of available material and feed back to > us only the selected songs deemed to be agreeable and non-offensive to the > greatest number of people, by the artists who get the biggest media push and > budgets by their labels. If you wait until Cowboys is on Billboard, chances are high > that you don't go out of your way to find things for yourself - you just let the > media dictate by default what you listen to and who you find in your ears. right on. "the radio's in the hands of such a lot of fools trying to anesthetize the way that you feel" - elvis costello. we're fed our tastes in music, movies, and all other forms of art. how sad. i'd hope that a lot of paula cole fans would be a bit more discerning, but there are obviously some who are not and feel the need to troll a list where most of the fans *are*. > So back to my digression, :-) remember how it used to be seeing Paula - > small, hushed crowds in small rooms, who were insanely supportive and > appreciative of her every song? The reviews posted of Paula's recent shows > have reported a significant departure from that to include a growing number of > unruly, insensitive, disrespectful philistines. I have nothing against fame, only > noticing the changes it makes to the face of a crowd. Nothing draws a crowd > like a crowd, and the difference between the people who join a crowd versus > the kind of person who just stops to listen because their feet/heart/intuition are > their guide even if no one else is there.. is kind of the difference we are seeing > in harbinger as of recent history. No offense, newbies, and there are always > plenty of exceptions to the rule, but they just... well, they just don't get it, > do they? honestly, i didn't have the chance to see paula in some small club. but the audiences have definitely changed, especially during the last leg of the tour. the cincinnati show was a good example. i was right up front and some drunk asshole dumped his beer all over this 8-year old girl just for giggles. what a jerk. don't get me started about the dude in front of me who oggled paula the whole show, and then decided that during "feeling love" the line "you make me wanna be a dumb blonde in a centerfold" would be the perfect time to raise his budwiser in solidarity and scream, "yeah! dumb blondes! yeah!" igh. but this is true of most shows, not just paula. america is the land of spoonfed consumer drones. anything underground is picked up by the mainstream, watered down, and sold to the public. it's truly pathetic. > A friend of mine has an expression for those who subscribe to the crowd > mentality- Idiots & Assholes. I'm inclined to agree with him. i agree. > P.S. Hi Kate! kate and rachel, will you marry me? you two rock hard. - -karen - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 06:10:18 EDT From: Copygurl@aol.com Subject: Re: (harbinger) a few questions about harbinger In a message dated 98-08-25 20:33:18 EDT, spanish wrote: [snip] > Here are a couple of things that I have questions about that perhaps someone > with Paula knowledge can help me with.... > > 1--- Where is Phil Sullivan???? I had read a rumour of sorts that he was no > longer with Paula... fact or fiction??? [snip] i answered this a month or so ago, but just to dispel any crazy rumors: phil is taking some time off from touring. i met him for dinner in cincinnati and he was *tired*. they've been on the road for 2 years in support of "this fire" and they're all worn down. he decided that there was personal stuff he needed to take care of at home, and so he left the tour. there is NO drama between he and paula. he intends to return to her crew once she tours again. btw - phil is a wonderful wonderful person. it was great to sit down and break bread with him. :) - -karen - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 06:39:30 EDT From: HunterXTC@aol.com Subject: Re: (harbinger) Paula Cole and Matchbox 20 Doshia asked away..... << Because, as much as I hate to admitt it she's not exactlly popular enough to headline and draw arena size crowds, yet, she has outgrown smaller clubs. So what is the middle ground? >> I guess alot of artists fit into this grey area, and in a sense (to me anyway) it's good because although you're not up close and personal like those small club stops, at least you still have a bit of an intimate feel in a theatre. And let's face it, those days of sitting at Paula's feet as she sings are probably gone... I think I'm getting too old to dig Matchbox 20.. but they are definately a flavour of the moment, and if guys were allowed to be on the Lilith bill (as headliners, not backing musicians), Im sure they would be there. But the pairing clicks.. both artists have a big teen following, they are cute, they are essentially harmless, and they can put enough fannies in the seats to fill a theatre... I guess we will have to wait for the Paula/Hanson pairing to see a stadium show :) Still wondering why I said THAT.... Spanish - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 06:52:24 EDT From: HunterXTC@aol.com Subject: Re: (harbinger) RE: Happy Home << Her mother would have been a very different person if she hadn't chosen the life of wife and husband, and she has regrets. The laundry list to illustrate this point is a long one: "...had to leave my home, had to raise a family, did the best we could being so young, tried so hard to build a happy home..." But what the heck does hitch-hiking to Maine and going cross-country have to do with regrets? It doesn't seem to fit the rest of the song's illustration of sacrifices borne out of raising a family. The obvious answer is that it's biographical, but when you consider it as an element of the song, doesn't it weaken it by introducing facets that seem more voluntary? >> Hummmm... I guess that if you look at the idea of hitching a ride to Maine, and going cross country as adventurous, then i see your point... there's no sacrifice involved. But if you put it in the context of the time, the nice Ozzie and Harriet world where everyone had a car and a little plot of land and a house in a subdivision, then hitching and wandering seem.. well a bit out of the ordinary. And wasn't the worst thing you could be in that time was not a cookie cutter copy of the Jones' next door?? In my feeble train of thought, that's the way I saw it... here's a mother who in a sense is wishing and hoping for the ordinary, and they never had the ordinary... even though she raised a family, it wans't a traditional family, and in a sense, the song makes me think of someone who is overwhelmed by everything that is going on in her life... so much to do, so much going on... and yet there's no stability, no safety net to fall into... Now youve got me curious... I need to break out Harbinger and listen to that song again...! Spanish - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 07:51:20 EDT From: Riphug@aol.com Subject: (harbinger) A mini-review of Paula at HORDE This is from a review of the Jones Beach HORDE Festival in the Sept. 17th issue of Rolling Stone: <<...This year it was going to get back to its mildly hippieish roots -- John Popper and company were back, joined by such radio faves as Barenaked Ladies and Paula Cole..... ...Cole's earnest introspection was a jolt after [the Barenaked Ladies segment]. Cole has a beautiful voice, which she often deliberately scarifies, like a model tattooing her face. Her vocal gymnastics hit the spot on the Donna Summer-ish "Feelin' Love," but just as often seemed out of place or gimmicky (for instance, her demonic growls on a cover of Dolly Parton's "Jolene")....>> ...At one point, Popper -- sporting a bra on his hat -- introduced Cole for a duet of John Lennon's "Imagine." Popper singing the song's idealistic lyrics while wearing that headgear was the perfect image for a festival that didn't know what it was trying to say but had a pretty good time saying it. - --Al Weisel >> "radio fave" "Donna Summer-ish" "deliberately scarifies" "gimmicky" Some people just don't get it, do they? *sigh* This is why it was better when we had her all to ourselves...... Jill :D - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:19:45 -0500 From: "Angela McGee" Subject: Re: (harbinger) RE: Happy Home I disagree -- I think the hiking-to-Maine and cross-country lyric fits perfectly. For me, it represents the new path her mother had taken when she decided to go off with Paula's dad...The song is about more than just regrets...it's this wistful feeling of "what if" but also a nostalgic look back at what it was like to be young and carefree. I get the feeling from the song that her mother both loved and regretted the path she took when she decided to get married and have kids. just my thoughts on the subject, angela Paul Zastrow wrote: > > (...returning to Paula content, blithly pretending that none of the past > day's posts ever occurred...) > > Warning: a little song-analyzing splitting of hairs is ahead -- if you're > not into it, skip the rest of this post... > > I just got a boot called "Diffidence," featuring "rare and live tracks" > from a variety of sources. One of the recordings is "Happy Home" from > Live from Mountain Stage (Vol. 8), and listening to a live, basically > acoustic recording helped me focus on the lyrics more than ever before. > > Happy Home has always been one of my favorite songs from "Harbinger" > (Bethlehem is tops), and the main point is pretty obvious (especially on > the live recording, where she introduces it by saying "I wrote this song > for my mother -- I dedicate it to her every time I do it..."): Her mother > would have been a very different person if she hadn't chosen the life of > wife and husband, and she has regrets. The laundry list to illustrate > this point is a long one: "...had to leave my home, had to raise a > family, did the best we could being so young, tried so hard to build a > happy home..." > > But what the heck does hitch-hiking to Maine and going cross-country have > to do with regrets? It doesn't seem to fit the rest of the song's > illustration of sacrifices borne out of raising a family. The obvious > answer is that it's biographical, but when you consider it as an element > of the song, doesn't it weaken it by introducing facets that seem more > voluntary? I mean, she and her husband probably did a lot of other things > when they were first in love, but they didn't make it into the song. How > about "Ate yogurt plain, played with your dad's feet..." Funny, but I'm > trying to make a point -- why did she choose the Maine and cross country > trips? > > I know I'm being very particular, but it just got me thinking, and I'm > curious what anyone else thinks. Is this just an example of early > song-writing, or is there some greater reason for the Maine/cross-country > thing that I'm just missing? > > I'd love to hear some Paula-related discussion... > > - Paul > paulza@javanet.com > > ------------- > > Paul Zastrow > paulza@javanet.com > www.javanet.com/~paulza - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:16:02 EDT From: HPBnSEG@aol.com Subject: Re: (harbinger) A Refresher course.... Thank you for being the only person on the list that actually had something to say besides the "I hate you, you hate me" crap. Ive joined the list 5 days ago and this has been the only interesting thing ive read the whole time (ive recieved about 200 posts). - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:47:18 EDT From: HPBnSEG@aol.com Subject: Re: (harbinger) Paula Cole and Matchbox 20 As far as I knew, Paula was actually opening for MB20. Imagine that! I was going to go down to tenn. to see her, and my cousin( Brian Yale, bass). If any one on the list was going to the show, feel free to email me.HPBnSEG.aol.com. It would be nice to meet some people on the list! Jason+Dusty, CT., happy home/jolene - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:52:42 -0700 (PDT) From: David Doody Subject: (harbinger) Lilith humor At the risk of offending some, here's a link I found rather humorous: www.theonion.com/onion3404/lilithfair.html Nice pic of Paula and Sarah, even if you don't like the "article." :) Dave - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:16:47 -0400 From: ".." Subject: (harbinger) Re: Morons Dear Jason In response to your post >I would very much like to see the infighting ended. I don't know who started it, >but I'm ending it. What the hell hol was doing piling on, I have no idea. >But with fans like Snyder who needs enemies? Believe it or not, it was Kenn who started the sniping. He sent a scathing attack to Steve Bornstein via the list concerning an offhand remark in a PS some ten days prior, a message that really should have gone to him personally. I responded to what seemed an unwarranted, unfair, and hostile post. Kenn has a tendency to act as the spokesperson for the list, and that really bothered me. Also he seemed, in this instance, to be way out of line and over the top in his reaction to what was not a terribly vehement statement to begin with. Apparently Kenn has some kind of vendetta with him. Whatever. hol was the only one who expressed any agreement with parts of my post - which doesn’t mean those of us in the “minority’ are wrong - so that’s hardly but please don’t chide her for that. I hope you haven’t unsubbed me yet. I think I’ve been behaving myself better than before - mostly by not posting, ha ha. I’ve enjoyed the list during my convalescence - it’s been a major part of my ‘social life.” Now that I’m back close to 100% I don’t need it so much, so if you feel compelled to go ahead and unsub so be it. But you should take a long hard look at Kenn’s posts - he’s no angel. I know you guys go way back and all, but that doesn’t mean he’s above the guidelines concerning courteous and respectful posting. Yes, I know this is your list and you’ll moderate it as you damn well please. I for one appreciate your time and effort in that regard, especially after long stressful days practicing law, and I know you don’t need to deal with a bunch of crap like this. I’m just one small voice (with a big mouth) but I like to think I’ve got some worthwhile input to contribute. I don't think I belong in the same category as Snyder. Thanks for caring, one way or the other. Ta ta Zimmy - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:10:15 -0400 From: ".." Subject: (harbinger) N**i tactics Dear Kristine I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else on the list or their ancestors by comparing Kenn's verbal bullying with Nazi tactics. Although I am Jewish I admit to being far less educated in certain aspects of my heritage than I could be. I certainly am not as knowledgeable as I assume you are. My information comes mostly from "Shoah" and numerous other documentaries I have taped and watched in an effort to understand the Holocaust. I do believe that part of the propoganda being disseminated at that time took the form of saying stuff like "Mr Famous Well-Respected Citizen believes this and such" so that everyday citizens would think "Well, if he believes that, it must be true." It didn't matter whether Mr. FWRC had really said that - if he hadn't, by the time the lie was publicized it was too late to disclaim it without losing face. For me to liken Kenn's putting words in other peoples' mouths to such insidious tactics is admittedly an exaggeration, but I was p.o.'d at his browbeating of Steve Bornstein. That probably doesn't excuse my insensitivity to those affected in any way by the aforementioned atrocities, just by way of explanation. Again, I am sorry. You are right to call me on that point. Gotta be more careful. Ta ta Zimmy - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:22:20 EDT From: MLevine171@aol.com Subject: (harbinger) Fwd: *AR* Album Title /Partial Tracklisting CONFIRMED-- MTV Report This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_904166543_boundary Content-ID: <0_904166543@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII - --part0_904166543_boundary Content-ID: <0_904166543@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (rly-zc05.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.5]) by air-zc05.mail.aol.com (v49.4) with SMTP; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:39:15 -0400 Received: from red.colossus.net (red.colossus.net [207.213.164.97]) by rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA00858; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by red.colossus.net id NAA14065; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:38:04 -0700 Received: from gangrene.ecst.csuchico.edu (gangrene.ecst.csuchico.edu [132.241.9.86]) by red.colossus.net with SMTP id NAA14010 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:37:59 -0700 Received: (qmail 23809 invoked from network); 26 Aug 1998 13:37:53 -0700 Received: from pmdyn108.dip.csuchico.edu (HELO Robbie?V.csuchico.edu) (132.241.248.108) by gangrene.ecst.csuchico.edu with SMTP; 26 Aug 1998 20:37:53 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980826133439.008c84d0@pop.ecst.csuchico.edu> X-Sender: rvanatta@pop.ecst.csuchico.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:34:39 -0700 To: alanis@npoc.com From: Rob Vanatta Subject: *AR* Album Title /Partial Tracklisting CONFIRMED-- MTV Report Sender: owner-alanis@colossus.net Precedence: Bulk Reply-To: Rob Vanatta Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Start your engines folks, it's almost here! What a fuckin wierd name. Oh well, it's alanis :) From MTV News Online: - ---- The highly anticipated follow-up to Alanis Morissette's wildly successful 1995 effort, "Jagged Little Pill," finally has a title, "Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie," and is set to arrive in stores on November 3. Recorded in Los Angeles, the album is said to be nearing completion and is being co-produced by the singer and her writing partner, Glenn Ballard. Though the complete tracklisting has yet to be announced, MTV News has been given a preview of some of the album's titles. These songs include, "Sympathetic Character," "Baba," "Front Row," "So Pure," and "Thank You." According to a spokesperson for Morissette, none of these songs have ever been performed in public before. One song not on the album, however, is Morissette's most recent hit, "Uninvited," which appears on the soundtrack for "City of Angels." As previously reported (see "Alanis Morissette Plans Fall Club Tour For New Album"), the Canadian songstress is expected to mount a club tour in support of "Supposed Formal Infatuation Junkie" in the fall, and is planning a larger, full-scale tour sometime next year. For more on Alanis, check out the MTV News Gallery. ___________________________________________________________ Just another message from -=Rob Vanatta=- rvanatta@ecst.csuchico.edu OR mirror@poe.org http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~rvanatta - homepage http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~rvanatta/mbrooks - Meredith Brooks NET http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Makeup/9450 - Another F'in Rocky Page - ----------------------------------------------------------- "i am alone, surrounded by the colour blue inside a poem, the only words i ever knew washing my hands, of the many years untold for now i am banned, my future it's to unfold" - Imogen Heap - ----------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------- The Alanis Morissette Mailing List - #alanismorissette(Undernet) UNSUBSCRIBE: E-Mail majordomo@npoc.com with "unsubscribe alanis" in body of message AR = Alanis Related Message NAR = Not Alanis Related message - --part0_904166543_boundary-- - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:30:30 EDT From: Icicles014@aol.com Subject: (harbinger) NTC, NPC, NMC Lilith Fair Program and Rufus Wainright? Hey everybody, sorry for the crosspost, but, what tghe hell. Maybe some of you know. In the Lilith Fair program there are several postcards of Nettwerk, Indigo Girls, all kinds of advertisements, and so forth, but one of the last postcards is of Rufus Wainright, a male pop singer. Any idea why he would be in a Lilith Program? Jase - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ End of harbinger-digest V3 #248 *******************************