From: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org (harbinger-digest) To: harbinger-digest@smoe.org Subject: harbinger-digest V3 #169 Reply-To: harbinger@smoe.org Sender: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk harbinger-digest Thursday, June 4 1998 Volume 03 : Number 169 HARBINGER DIGEST To post, mail harbinger@smoe.org To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger-digest To get list info file, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info harbinger-digest Today's Subjects: ---------------- Re: (harbinger) Antigone Rising and General Concert Rants [Burr Rutledge ] (harbinger) Re: Sarah concert, Paula and Santa (gettin' looooong) ["Kenn"] (harbinger) Dawson's Creek U.K. Theme ["Kenn" Subject: Re: (harbinger) Antigone Rising and General Concert Rants Chris Povie scribis: >p.s If I enter a venue and find the majority of "fans" still sitting down >after a rousing rendition of, say, Road to Dead or Mississippi, I promise to >bomb the joint and put the lameasses out of their collective misery! ;-) Ah... but Anigone Rising was just the opener. And openers do not deserve our respect and admiriation and energy. - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Please note the new majordomo address To buy Paula merchandise from Paula(!) try: http://pw2.netcom.com/~ilml/pcmerch.html Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:12:07 -0400 From: "Kenn" Subject: (harbinger) Re: Sarah concert, Paula and Santa (gettin' looooong) Steve wrote: > I can always count on you for an opinion, but Holy canoli! I know you > didn't want to go off on a rant, but . . . I didn't really mind ranting. In fact, it keeps me sane enough to avoid losing my shit on poor unsuspecting folks in the subway. I just didn't want anyone (especially you) to take my comments too personally or in any way to interpret them as flames. I'm not out to raise hackles. I'm just glad to see that a nice, intelligent thread got to be discussed and am even happier that I've learned something from it (more on that later on in the post...). > Music is for the ears, not the eyes. I understand where you're coming from especially with regard to your comments about some acts (for some reason Bobby Brown springs to mind) who are so busy jammin' around the stage that they aren't singing. On the other hand, I believe for most concert-goers, the live shows are for the eyes as well as the ears - although the ear factor far outweighs the eye factor. If I can't hear the music, I get pissed. But the view matters a lot, too. Why else would so many of us try so hard to get right up next to the stage? Again, if we just wanted to hear them sing live, we'd buy the live CD. We want to see the expressions on Paula's face when she sings. It just adds to the whole vibe of the song and helps some of us to feeeeeel the music with her in addition to hearing it from her. And then there are music purists. They want to listen to the live music with eyes closed, tuning in to every nuance of every strum of guitar string of plink of piano key. They often see the constructs of music the way a writer can't help but see the constructs of any book he or she reads. That's part of how they enjoy music and they need silence in order to concentrate. How often that happens for them at any other concert than maybe those put on by chamber music quartets or a cappella groups, I don't know. I'm guessing that the purists end up hating their fellow audience members at most concerts. Neither group is wrong for wanting to do their thing at the live shows. It's just whether or not they can live amicably with one another for the few hours they have to spend within fist-throwing range. And if they can't co-exist easily, I suppose it comes down to who is going to let it matter enough to stick up for what they want. At some point, too, the person(s) performing comes into the picture, too. Paula, for instance, wants it both ways (bless her heart!). She wants her audience to shut their mouths while she's doing low-key stuff like "Ordinary" and she wants them to be on their feet when she's doing "La Vie En Rose." She needs both kinds of energy from the audience and at the right times. She needs to know that she's having an effect. > I appreciate your input - you clearly have thought about this a lot - > and I recall Joel Siegfried also posted very thoughtfully on this and > related subjects. I will never forget Paula's Toad's Place show - not > only because it was an outstanding performance, but because so > many people were inexplicably noisy and rude. I don't know what the > answer is, maybe nerve gas or a magic spell, cuz some people are > just clueless about their effect on others and then get defensive when > you call them on it. It does seem that those who really care suffer at > the hands of those who don't, and it just isn't right. Thanks, Steve. Your input is just as equally appreciated by me. Seriously. I'm grateful that you've expressed your position on this subject because it's different than my own and I have a hard time understanding most folks who appear to share your views. That's a very good thing about this list. You can pretty much say what's on your mind and express where you're coming from and most of us understand that there's no need to start a fight. Thanks, Harbinger, for being civilized without turning to milquetoast. > And finally, about Santa Packing Heat - a while ago there was a post > from DeanJP who had found BMI listings of > Paula's songs. In that list there was this: SAINT NICHOLAS IS > CARRYING A GUN BMI Work # 003855270. So the song does exist, if > not on that CD. Yeah, that's where I first heard about the song, too. I knew Paula had written the song, but I didn't know if it had been released. It hasn't. My hero, Chris Povie quoth: > And listen for me behind you--I'll be the one repeating whiningly and > incessantly, "HEY!!!! STAND UP UP THERE, WILL YA ?!?!?!?!? " A man after my own heart!!! You should have seen me at the Tina Turner concert at Jones Beach last summer. There's Tina up on stage doing the "rough" part of "Proud Mary" and over half the attendees were still sitting dully in their chairs like they were hooked up to Thorazine drips. I wanted to scream at them, "GET UP AND DANCE, YOU IMBECILES!!! THAT'S TINA TURNER UP THERE AND SHE'S DOING PROUD MARY!!!! YOU CAN SIT WHILE SHE'S DOING GOLDFINGER!!!!" I didn't do that, of course. I was out on Long Island and they would probably have send their pod people after me once they figured out I hadn't been replaced. > I will entertain any and all replies/flamez from LardAssed Couch > Potatos and their affiliated faction, the 'I Came to Sit and Hear the Radio > Single and Then Leave' Party. Actually, I'm pretty sure they are now referring to themselves as the "I Came To Sit And Hear The Radio Single But I Want To Talk Very Loudly About Nonsense Through The Rest Of The Concert Just Because I Think I'm The Center Of The Universe" Party right before the Toad's Show. Hell of an acronym that'd make... ;^) Peace. Kenn - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Please note the new majordomo address To buy Paula merchandise from Paula(!) try: http://pw2.netcom.com/~ilml/pcmerch.html Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:12:36 -0400 From: "Kenn" Subject: (harbinger) Dawson's Creek U.K. Theme Here's the official word on the recent question about whether or not Paula is singing the theme song to Dawson's Creek in the U.K. and beyond.... No. Or as Paula would say, she is not the person who is singing. According to the music supervisor for Dawson's Creek, the theme song for Dawson's Creek outside the U.S. is not "Good Mother" by Jann Arden as I had wondered a couple of weeks ago. However, it *is* a song written especially for the show by Jann Arden. I didn't ask for the title of it (like I said before, I'm not a big fan of Jann), but it's definitely not "Good Mother." It just shares certain similarities to that song, lyrically speaking. I must be semi-clairvoyant or somethin'. ;^) Joel, please pass this information along to Graham so that his curiosity can be appeased. If he has any other questions about this, he can call Dawson's Creek's production office at (310) 979-8735. Peace. Kenn - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Please note the new majordomo address To buy Paula merchandise from Paula(!) try: http://pw2.netcom.com/~ilml/pcmerch.html Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 18:03:15 -0400 From: Kate Roberts Subject: (harbinger) detroit lilith tix for sale hey there, a friend of mine has two tickets available for the july 6th show at pine knob, near detroit. they're lawn tickets and she'll sell them at face value. sorry for the cross-post for those of you on more than one of these lists :) if you're interested, please email caitlin at crooney@wso.williams.edu thanks! kate. - ------------------------------------------------------ Your own voice is the voice that carries you through life the best. -- Nanci Griffith - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Please note the new majordomo address To buy Paula merchandise from Paula(!) try: http://pw2.netcom.com/~ilml/pcmerch.html Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 15:37:14 -0700 From: Larry Sievers Subject: Re: (harbinger) Antigone Rising and General Concert Rants I gotta add to this... We went to a Sarah show here in Eugene, Oregon a couple of months ago and were fortunate enough to have scored two dead-center row FF Orchestra seats. It wasn't a General Admission show but somehow I think this li'l story fits this thread. My wife and I were both into it and made a big deal of night... took flowers to take to the stage before the show, big dinner plans afterward and all else that goes into preserving a memorable evening. After a nice opening set by Lisa Loeb, Sarah comes on and we (the audience) immediately go to our feet... hootin' and really getting into it... after the tune we clapped insanely, then eased back into our $60 seats... all that is except for a pocket of insensitive and rowdy folks directly in front of us. They had their arms up waving back and forth while standing on their seats for the next two songs. Finally, between songs, (it was like a sudden gap of total quiet fell on the place) -- my impulse control mechanism failed and I yelled out "siddowninfront!!!" The arm wavers remained standing on their chairs while Sarah looked out at all of us and said, "It would be really nice if those of you in front would respect those behind you and have a seat for awhile -- later on, everyone can stand, dance, boogie... okay?" Then they did and so we did. It was so cool. My wife elbowed me pretty hard in the ribs 'cause I embarrassed her a li'l I think. That's okay. It was a "me and Sarah moment." Signed by an ol' concert curmudgeon. Chris Povie wrote: > > My buddy Kenn writes, > > In general, however, I've always wondered why anyone sits down at a > general admission show (except, of course, during low-key ballad-type > songs). It's a concert, after all. On the upbeat tunes, my take on > it is to get up and dance and let the musicians know I'm enjoying and > appreciating what they're doing up there. - ---------------------------------------------------------- Larry Sievers mailto:tech@chukchi.com - ---------------------------------------------------------- "Alaska Arts, Crafts, Multimedia, Video Production & More" http://www.chukchi.com http://www.touch-alaska.com - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Please note the new majordomo address To buy Paula merchandise from Paula(!) try: http://pw2.netcom.com/~ilml/pcmerch.html Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:27:12 -0400 From: "Kenn" Subject: Re: (harbinger) Antigone Rising and General Concert Rants -Reply Larry wrote: > We went to a Sarah show here in Eugene, Oregon a couple of months > ago and were fortunate enough to have scored two dead-center row > FF Orchestra seats. ;^) > It wasn't a General Admission show but somehow I think this li'l story > fits this thread. I don't know. I feel differently about seated concerts than I do general admission shows. If I'm at a seated concert, I only stand up for the songs that are definitely meant for it - i.e. Paula's "Jolene" and "La Vie En Rose" among others. Tickets at those shows almost always cost more than general admission shows and I figure there's a reason why the performer is doing the show at a seated venue. Also, you'd kinda feel like an ass if you were one of about two or three people standing in an entire auditorium full of sitters. General admission shows are a different animal. I, personally, don't like sitting on some grungy floor where countless beers have been spilled and innumerable dirty shoes have been trodding or on in dirt or on wet grass (go ahead and say it... persnickety fussbudget cleanfreak!). That counts for a lot of why I won't sit at a general admission show. But, even if I had paid the same amount at the general admission show as a seated show, I'd still stand. That is just part and parcel of a general admission show. I believe that one should go to G.A. shows expecting to stand because if you were supposed to expect to sit, there'd be chairs. If it appears that you can sit on the floor and not have any problem seeing the show and don't mind wearing beer and don't mind having your face at the same level as your neighbor's crotch, more power to you. Or, if the place has a seating area like at Toad's, even better. But I think the expectation that people should sit at those shows would be unrealistic. In your case, Larry, you had every right to give those standers what-for. Standing for the entire concert at a seated venue is just plain rude and standing in your seat at any concert (who are the parents that raised these people?) is not only dangerous to the stander and those around him but is also just cause for outrage and the subsequent launching of blunt projectiles at the stander. I think the decision to stand for the danceable numbers at seated concerts should really be made on a case-by-case basis. If I'm seated right in front of someone who is way too short to see over me, I'm probably going to stay in my seat for most of the show. I will only stand for the songs you just can't help (or shouldn't be able to help) dancing to. If my standing is preventing the person behind me from enjoying the show, I expect that they will be confident enough about themselves to ask me to move or sit. If they show that kind of confidence in themselves and their position, I'll sit without any argument and admire them for standing up for themselves. But, even if they don't ask, if I notice they are fussing behind me, I'll usually try to move out of their way or offer to trade them places. It really just depends. > Signed by an ol' concert curmudgeon. Ahh, you're not a curmudgeon, Larry. :^) Peace. Kenn - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Please note the new majordomo address To buy Paula merchandise from Paula(!) try: http://pw2.netcom.com/~ilml/pcmerch.html Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 20:57:56 PDT From: "Steve Bornstein" Subject: (harbinger) Re: Standers vs Talkers; Openers Well, I think this subject has been dealt with pretty thoroughly, but as it's not exhausted yet . . . Perhaps I was too cut and dry in saying " Music is for the ears, not the eyes." Of course a live concert will include both, plus touch and smell - you're on your own with taste. I was exagerating to make a point, which is, since music is intended for the ears, I personally would rather be behind standers than near talkers, if I had to choose. Stevie Winwood once said, "40,000 headmen couldn't make me change my mind/If I had to make a choice between the deaf man and the blind." It's unclear exactly what he meant, but for 30 years I've assumed he'd rather be blind so he could still hear music. ( If I ever meet him I'm going to ask him, even if it means taking the mystery out of his poetry.) For someone who's never been to a concert by someone like Paula or Sarah, there's bound to be a great deal of curiosity about how they look while performing. And though I've seen them both several times, I still get a kick out of watching Sarah's eyebrows (seriously - check it out) and Paula's fierce, jutting jaw and that bunny hop she does - you have to go to a show to see it because this dance craze is not sweeping the nation. Still, having seen this, I can endure being wedged in, unable to move, and stuck behind Hulk Hogan, as long as someone nearby isn't chattering, or yelling, or whistling right in my ear. To my mind, these people are not there for the music, they're there for the spectacle, and are motivated more by a need to call attention to themselves than to express appreciation for the music. I mean, show appreciation after a song, or a killer guitar break, but during the song, whether you're standing, sitting, or dancing, shut up and listen!! 'Nuff said, I hope. I am troubled, however, by Burr's statement, <> Burr, if you only knew what it takes to learn how to play an instrument, write some songs, put together a band, devote enough time to practice and learn your craft, scrape together the money to buy equipment, find a gig, and overcome the nerves, insecurity, and raw fear that all performers face on a daily basis, you would not make such a cavalier comment. Every musician you have ever seen has had to open for someone else somewhere along the way, and had to earn respect from an indifferent or hostile audience. It takes a lot of guts and self-belief to stand in front of strangers and open yourself up to them. This is not for the faint of heart. Just because someone is an opener doesn't mean they're no good or undeserving, and several times I've been to concerts where the opener blew away the headliner, and not just in my perception. Don't forget, Sarah thought so highly of Paula's music she hired her to open - a vote of confidence, and a risk to have someone that talented be your opener. (I can't quite reconcile this with her current choice, Loser Loeb - maybe Sarah's gotten cagier) In fact, I once saw Sarah as an opener, for The Chieftans, and while it's true their audience is older and less boisterous, she was received very warmly. A few people posted favorable reviews of Merrie Amsterburg opening for Paula, as well they should. I truly hope you intended this as a matter of degree, because everyone who gets on stage should at least get some credit for making it that far. If, after listening to them with an open mind, you think they suck, go ahead and trash them. But keep an eye out for reprisals from their fans! And keep an open mind - that's the only way we learn. Bottom line? Let's all try to be considerate of others while enjoying the music in our own way. And as that philosopher Rodney King said, "Can't we all just, get along?" Peace JourneyBear ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Please note the new majordomo address To buy Paula merchandise from Paula(!) try: http://pw2.netcom.com/~ilml/pcmerch.html Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ End of harbinger-digest V3 #169 *******************************