From: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org (harbinger-digest) To: harbinger-digest@smoe.org Subject: harbinger-digest V2 #77 Reply-To: harbinger@smoe.org Sender: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk harbinger-digest Wednesday, September 24 1997 Volume 02 : Number 077 HARBINGER DIGEST To post, mail harbinger@smoe.org To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger-digest To get list info file, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info harbinger-digest Today's Subjects: ---------------- Re: (harbinger) do you know what this is doing to me? [Sara ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:00:28 +1000 (AEST) From: Sara Subject: Re: (harbinger) do you know what this is doing to me? On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Jason wrote: > > > > I've been reading all these comments comparing Sarah M with Tori and i > > think once again people are comparing two female artists on the basis of > > who is better and at the same time downgrading each one of them. They are > > both two unique artists in their own right. The > > competition that is being created between them is unfair to both of them. > > What competition? There's no competition. Yeah there is, someone(cant remember who) made a comment while defending Tori about Surfacing. A bit unfair to even put the two into the same comparison as there styles are completely different. Sure it perfectably understandable not to like Sarah's cd but dont compare it to Tori, its not really fair. They are both great but on different levels. > Tori's great...no one else has been able to combine Kate Bush, Robert > Plant and Hugo Wolf. Totally agree with how great Tori is i love her music, but truthfull i cant see the comparison to Kate Bush or Robert Plant except that they are all strong artists in their own right, but musically they are quite different > > Some of her fans, on the other hand, leave me wondering when the > mothership is going to come back to pick them up. Let me know when it arrives i'll be waiting! No seriously such emotional music always prevokes an intensly emotional response, and tori, Sarah and Paula fans are not your average Spice Girls audience. This is a totally great thing as Spice girls fans are brainless (sorry if anyone out there is a spice girls fans but as of yet i have not met a decent fan of there music) > ps. Considering the closeness between Sarah and Paula, and the amount of > support Sarah's offered Paula career, this isn't the best place in the > world for anti-Sarah paranoia. Some of us aren't that happy about > Surfacing, but the best way to put it is that Surfacing is the most > disappointing cd since Boys for Pele. ;) > > Boys wasn't dissapointing there is more going on there than meets the eye. > ------------------------------ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe harbinger > > Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: > http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html > For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com > - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:32:47 +0300 From: sstewart@NTCGEN01HE.ntc.nokia.com (Stewart Steven NTC/INP-He) Subject: (harbinger) People Mag, Tori, Art, Paula, Sarah... If some of this is a repeat, please forgive me. I was writing a big ol diatribe and my email blew up. (Probably a sign that it shouldn't have been sent. ;) ) So the old post may or may not have zapped through... But, here goes again... 1. PEOPLE Could someone please post the letter that appeared in People magazine. I'm glad someone wrote in! 2. TORI I apologize for bringing up the Tori thread. My original post wasn't an attack on her music at all...her lyrical content has changed since Earthquakes and I was asking for HELP to find a resource that had possible interpretations of what her newer songs were about. For me, I find a connection to most songs through the combination of lyrics and music...when I either discover a meaning or when someone tells me an interpretation of a lyric, it usually opens the song up for me to enjoy it more fully than if I just think..."wow. these weird words sound kind of cool with this melody." I disagree with the comment " i've said it before, i'll say it again-tori creates environments, not songs". I think Tori not only creates interesting sound environments, she is a great songwriter and a wonderful lyricist. The example given was "Tear in My Hand" which works as both an environment (sounds, patterns, moods, feelings) and as a great song (she describes the writing of that song in her songbook about beginning with the end and circling back again. She is obviously very aware of structure, hooks, and format). 3. ART PROCESS? There was a lot of talk about "art". I want to give my definition of art by showing the process I went through with Harbinger. Paula first captured my attention with her unique voice singing a guitar only version of Ordinary. (Paraphrasing Peter Gabriel (probably incorrectly) he said "Paula is a unique voice, not in just what she is saying, but how she says it.") Then I dug into her songwriting. Lots of depth..different levels of understanding...I didn't understand everything, but I liked the images. I did a little more studying, listening to interviews about the inspiration. For example, Paula explained a little about the background of "Dear Gertrude" and I understood the song that I already enjoyed at a completely different level. (Again, not understanding what the song was about didn't make me not like it. But given the key to unlock what the song was about helped me to really get behind it in a way I didn't before.) (The recent post for "She Can't Feel..." is another example. Even if the interpretation is incorrect, it gives me another way to think about the song and make it more personal.) Then I listened to the production of the album. There are so many really cool instrumentations, arrangements, overdubs, etc on that album. Then I found some rare demos and live tracks and heard the songs in a completely different environment. (Happy Home with just a guitar and drums still hit me just as hard as with the full production. I liked "Bethlehem better as a demo.) Then I saw her live. Now I have an altar and shrine built to the godess Paula. (Just KIDDING!) But that is how I appreciate the "art" of Paula...seeing the different sides of the whole. By educating myself about all of the aspects that I could, I feel I can talk a little more intelligently about why a song works, the different levels, and actually enjoy listening to it more, etc. rather than, "Isn't that cool that she sings about Cowboys! :)" (Although, that's actually fine to start at that point...It is a start! ;) ) I've seen Tori live, bought quite a few bootlegs, read a few articles about her and I'm thrilled she is doing what she wants to do as opposed to what a record company wants her to do, but she lost me with most of Pele and I was just trying to find a thread to try to clear up my understanding. I won't accept the cry of "But it's art! " That could just be The Emporor's New Clothes. Show me why. Help me see. And if I'm not worth your time, just point me in the right direction. Also, I am glad to hear she is working on a new album and a sountrack! But will that be the start of a new Holy Trilogy like the new Star Wars movies, or just a continuation of a series like Nightmare on Elm St. or Friday the 13th? ;) 3. SARAH BASHING I agree that Sarah bashing probably doesn't go over very well at this site. Sarah has done a lot to help people hear Paula's music and get her more exposure. (I went to the SF Lilith and saw that Sarah came out in the wings to enjoy almost half of Paula's show. She was smiling and seeming to still love it.) Also, most FTEers post really positive things about Paula and post dates of her tours, etc. I like both artists and feel they have different things to say. (Though I have heard comparisons that FTE and Harbinger are similar (well produced, sound experiences, lots of overdubs and instrumentation to create moods) and Surf and TF are more bare with almost live performances that are very raw. I love all four of the albums, and though I see the similarities, I don't think you can define the sound of any of them. Both Paula and Sarah are growing and doing what they want to do. Good for them. I can't wait to see what both of them do next. I'm glad for the differences of opinionson this list, though. The "Hitler's Brother" thread pulled out a lot of heartfelt responses because not everyone agreed, but most posters had very valid points. I really enjoyed reading how everyone felt and how a song could get people to discuss such important issues. And even though I love Surfacing and think it has a lot to say in an interesting way, I laughed when I read, "but the best way to put it is that Surfacing is the most disappointing cd since Boys for Pele. ;)" Kind of puts everyone back in their seats, huh? 4. LETTERMAN I am really excited for this CD. I'm so glad they are releasing it! GO PAULA! Guess that's enough. Steve Helsinki - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:04:28 -0700 From: Jon Akers Subject: Re: (harbinger) People Mag, Tori, Art, Paula, Sarah... At 05:32 PM 9/23/97 +0300, you wrote: > >1. PEOPLE >Could someone please post the letter that appeared in People magazine. I'm >glad someone wrote in! > On Page 4: PAULA COLE I'm glad to see Paula Cole finally getting the recognition she deserves. She has an amazing stage presence, and her songs brim with emotions that are all too real for many of us. Paula puts music first and the perks of fame a pale second, and I greatly admire that. RACHEL KRAMER BUSSEL New York City Jon Akers http://tscnet.com/~jka Naval Nuclear Propulsion Electrician (but no SatNav!) - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:08:28 -0400 From: "Tim Clausz" Subject: (harbinger) Paula on David Letterman compilation CD According to the latest issue of the ICE newsletter, Paula will be one of 14 artists to appear on "Live on Letterman: Music from the Late Show" CD. The CD is due out on November 18. The Paula song will be "I Don't Want to Wait". Tim - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:38:34 +1000 (AEST) From: Sara Subject: (harbinger) A response to Tori > > 2. TORI > I apologize for bringing up the Tori thread. My original post wasn't an > attack on her music at all...her lyrical content has changed since > Earthquakes and I was asking for HELP to find a resource that had possible > interpretations of what her newer songs were about. For me, I find a > connection to most songs through the combination of lyrics and music...when > > > I've seen Tori live, bought quite a few bootlegs, read a few articles about > her and I'm thrilled she is doing what she wants to do as opposed to what a > record company wants her to do, I agree its a good thing, but not when you live in Australia as because Atlantic/Warner didn't give the album a go, sales of it in Australia were low compared to other albums and she didnt tour here. but she lost me with most of Pele and I was > just trying to find a thread to try to clear up my understanding. I won't > accept the cry of "But it's art! " That could just be The Emporor's New > Clothes. Show me why. Help me see. And if I'm not worth your time, just > point me in the right direction. > Pele was an interesting album because it was such a mixture of emotions stunningly caught by a beautiful variety of musical differences. Lyricly its beautiful. Its about transition and change, she goes from being mad, to confused to sad and then longing, eventually she deals with it but instead of being happy she is still lamenting.. I think it lost a lot of people because of the art work, bad media and the fact that it is unaccessible if you look at it without feeling what she is actually saying. Its an album about relationships and the grief relationships cause. She claims its about allher relationships with various men throughout her life and reclaiming herself not simply looking to everyone else for her identity. Best advice is lock yourself away from the world in a dark warm room and listen to the entire cd at once, its not an album you can break up into individual songs that easily, they all link and complement each other. If you have any questions please feel free to ask, and i'll give you my impression. Sara> > > ------------------------------ > To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: > unsubscribe harbinger > > Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: > http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html > For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com > - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ End of harbinger-digest V2 #77 ******************************