From: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org (harbinger-digest) To: harbinger-digest@smoe.org Subject: harbinger-digest V2 #74 Reply-To: harbinger@smoe.org Sender: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk harbinger-digest Saturday, September 20 1997 Volume 02 : Number 074 HARBINGER DIGEST To post, mail harbinger@smoe.org To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger-digest To get list info file, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info harbinger-digest Today's Subjects: ---------------- (harbinger) Unreleased Response [sstewart@NTCGEN01HE.ntc.nokia.com (Stewa] (harbinger) tori [Fragments1@aol.com] (harbinger) Paula in Germany [Ruediger Hanke ] (harbinger) Intro stuff... [**- aLaNa ThE fAeRiE -** ] (harbinger) Tour Dates-Updated [MiChelle Smith ] (harbinger) smoe.org scheduled outage (fwd) [Jason ] Re: (harbinger) Unreleased Response [Jason ] Re: (harbinger) tori [Casey ] Re: (harbinger) tori [Casey ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:37:54 +0300 From: sstewart@NTCGEN01HE.ntc.nokia.com (Stewart Steven NTC/INP-He) Subject: (harbinger) Unreleased Response Thanks to the list for your replies. To answer back to a couple of questions... Re: Jason's "Now why the hell would she release versions she thought were so far awayfrom what she wanted that she canned the producer, put the cd months behind schedule, and cost a bundle to redo, at a time when she was moving to a new label to distribute This Fire? Kind of an interesting idea: "Hi, I thought these were such shit that I took over production myself, now buy them." " I don't think my request was as stupid as I gather you think it is. I meant that many artists release alternate versions of their work on the CD5s as a bonus to their fans. (Sarah McLachlan does this a lot and I often like the alt versions better than the originals.) I like Paula's demo of "Bethlehem" better than the original as well. I've just heard a lot of demos and live cuts that she might not think fit what she wanted to do, but I still love them. Even if I like an original version better (I wasn't a big fan of the Cowboys remixes), I think it is interesting to compare the versions...what works, what doesn't work, etc.) No, the versions of the songs she decided to trash might not have fit her vision of what she wanted to represent her, but I still think it would be interesting to hear how the vision changed for what she decided to redo compared to her album. And she wouldn't be asking people to buy a full album of it (which as you said, she didn't want to do). It would be a BONUS for buying a copy of the single. Like I said, I was hoping for bonus tracks to be on a CD5...the songs are already produced, so there would be no additional cost to the record company, and it would be a marketing incentive for her fans who already own the album to buy the CD5 to get the extra tracks. (Why would a fan buy the CD single if it just had another album track on it?) From my understanding, sales of CD5s count quite high when tabulating for chart positions. (I don't want Paula to be thought of as a one-hit wonder...so I am surprised that there isn't more of a push to release IDWTW as a single to get a chart position) So, from a marketing viewpoint, I don't think it's that dumb. You have a selling incentive for the fans to continue to support an artist they like and get a bonus for it, additional costs are not accrued to the record company for another remix (especially if the song isn't really suited for a dance version) because they already have an alt version of the song, Paula is not compromising her artistic integrity because artists are usually judged on their albums, not their b-sides (unless the b-sides are amazing), and again, it gives her fans a chance to her a song they already enjoy in a different way. (Just look at Jewel. Every one of her radio released songs is different than the version on her album. I like the album versions much better, but the radio versions increased her appeal to the masses and have made her a rich rich woman.) The same principles apply to unreleased bsides of other songs not on the album if there is really an aversion to releasing the trashed versions. (Why not release the VH1 versions?) Anyway.... Thanks for the insight to "She Can't...." I always thought that's what it was about, but some review said it was about an abused wife and I didn't see the connection. I appreciate your in-depth views. Brian: "re. Tori's lyrics, why do they have to make sense? They have to form a clear, literaly picture for you to enjoy the song?" Yeah, unfortunately for me they do. It's just a personal thing. Sure I can enjoy Chubawamba (?)'s "Thumpaasdfkjaofw" (I have no idea how to spell it), but I don't think I feel the same long-term connection to a song if it is completely indecipherable. I don't need a literal picture...Sarah McL's songs are not always linear and Paula's "Mississippi" isn't about a sick dog on the bayou, but those types of songs I can feel more for because I have at least a sense of understanding as to what they are about. Again, "tuna blubber a little rubber in your igloo" doesn't move me like "got a cat named Easter, he said, "Will you ever learn? It's just an empty cage girl, if you kill the bird." Neither are literal, but the words to crucify give me something I want to think about where the words to the first example I unfortunately don't care enough to think about. There are a few songs of Paula's that I don't understand what the message (or lyrics :) ) are (like "Suwanne Jo") but I still enjoy the mood she creates with the lyrics I do understand. I don't know. This post is actually going nowhere fast. What it comes down to is that I like all of the facets of songwriting...from the raw creation (Paula & Jay...bar piano and drums) all the way to a full band then a full production (like "The Ladder" which is amazing, but probably almost impossible to perform live.) That's why I am so rabid about the songwriting, the releases of different versions, the marketing, etc. If there is an artist who I respect and enjoy, I want to see their process and growth so I can learn. No, it is not their responsibility...but it's nice when it happens. Thanks for your patience with this post! Steve helsinki, finland - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:09:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Fragments1@aol.com Subject: (harbinger) tori sigh..ok....Tori's lyrics are not meant to be taken as they come. this is why she is, and shall remain, my favourite artist. "tuna rubber a little blubber in my igloo" refers to her as a child..."marianne" is about a school friend that died.......i'm attempting to keep my writing focused and to the point, and to attempt to not go on the defensive......you REALLy don't need to know any of HER history to understand her music. she writes as most poets and thinkers write-in streams on concious thought. she doesn't put together songs, she creates pieces of her self and puts them onto an album.....all you really need is an understanding of history, religion, and the rest of the world..tori comes off as raw emotions......this is why "boys for pele" was slammed so much-tori FINALLY got to do it on her own, and that is what she wanted, and, in my opinion, it's a masterpiece. sure, there's no little ditties on there that you can put on at your next party, and, yes, it's quite heavy-but that's what makes it so beautiful. from the opening, where, to tori, everything is bubbling to the surface [this is TRUE surfacing, ladies & gentlefolk, not wandering around attempting to write songs about something when you have no more to say], to "twinkle", when everything in her life has been changed forever.....tori's music, and tori as a person, has been there for me many times...she gives the best hugs in the world.....and she doesn't pretend to be what she's not. you can't pin her down. so why try to? - -russ "If you know me so well, then tell me which hand I use..."-T.A. - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:01:48 +0200 From: Ruediger Hanke Subject: (harbinger) Paula in Germany Hi! I was away for a few days and had no time to read through all the list mail, so I hope this information wasn't posted before: Paula performs tonight at the "New Pop Festival" in Baden-Baden at 6:15 p.m. The concert is broadcasted *live* on the radio, and later (22.11.97 2:00 p.m., repeated on 28.11.97 00:20 a.m.) on television. After the concert, the SWF3 will place photographs of the show on their web site. At: http://www.swf3.de/club/termine/NewPop97/gallery-index.htm the link "Paula Cole" should become available immediately after the concert (ends this evening at 7:15 p.m. European time). During the show (6:15-7:15 p.m. European time), you get live TV pictures of the running show, a new one every three minutes at: http://www.swf3.de/club/termine/newpop97/spycam.htm That's it! Ruediger :-) - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:12:53 -0400 From: Roxanne Finch Subject: Re: (harbinger) tori Fragments1@aol.com wrote: >in my igloo" refers to her as a child..."marianne" is about a school friend >that died.......i'm attempting to keep my writing focused and to the point, >and to attempt to not go on the defensive......you REALLy don't need to know >any of HER history to understand her music. she writes as most poets and Um, I beg to differ. "Marianne" isn't about a school friend that died. The persona 'Marianne' is meant to represent all women who 'die' (figuratively, not literally) in today's complicated, confusing and often hurtful world. I read this in an interview that Tori herself gave. If I can find the direct quote I'll post it. Oddly enough, when you say that "Marianne" is about a school friend that died, you try to assign a literal translation to a song by a singer/songwriter, who rarely writes 'literal' lyrics. Her music goes far deeper than any literal translation. You made the argument yourself when you said.... >sigh..ok....Tori's lyrics are not meant to be taken as they come. If I've misinterpreted the meanings behind your post, please accept my apologies and point me in the right direction. In Paula news, I just have to say "YAY" she's doing a swing through at least within driving distance of me! rox ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Roxanne Finch rdfinch@mindspring.com http://www.unc.edu/~roxfinch/ "Don't be reckless with other people's hearts. Don't put up with people who are reckless with yours." Mary Schmich - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 01:37:25 +1000 (EST) From: **- aLaNa ThE fAeRiE -** Subject: (harbinger) Intro stuff... Hello all :) I'm Alana and I'm new to the list, but I just though I'd peek my head out say hey. I am also on the Sarah McLachlan fte list (hive fumblers) and sort of on the Shawn Colvin list (it depends on what the weather's like). I first saw Paula a few years ago here in Melbourne when she touring with Peter Gabriel. I loved her voice and I was completely impressed with the passion she brought to his words. Last year I found Harbinger in the bargain bin (some people have NO taste) for $3.99 and knew it had to come home with me :) And it did. I didn't listen to it up until about a fortnight ago. Lilith Fair in Vancouver was amazing and completely convinced me Paula's talent was special. I cried during her set. She is _such_ a true performer and she loved it. So I got 'This Fire' and I've been listening to both the albums non stop now. Divine. Are there any fellow Australians on the list? I wonder... Y'all might want to have a looksee at my review of the Lilith Fair in Vangroovy ==> http://www.geocities.com/westhollywood/1650/fumble.html It's 1:40am, time to consider sleeping methinks. Nightynight and *faeriedust* AlanaFaerie .SarahMcLachlan.IndigoGirls.ShawnColvin.PeterGabriel.PaulaCole. ======================================================================== "...I used to search for reservations and native lands before I realised everywhere I stand there have been tribal feet running wild as fire some oo past life sister of my desire..." oo ++ -Amy Ray * Jonas&Ezekial- ++ ======================================================================== http://www.geocities.com/westhollywood/1650 | http://www.abc.net.au/race - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 11:52:24 -0500 From: FyrElf Subject: (harbinger) Nashville date Hi. I was wondering if anyone has any info about the Nov. 22 Nashville, Tn date. Such as where at (hopefully 328), how much, and when tickets go on sale. In another vein, Tori's songs take a LONG time to figure out sometimes, bu that is what makes her so wonderful and brilliant IMHO. Tori is my fave artist (sorry Paula comes in second). I think that Tori is brilliant, but I do agree that sometimes her lyrics do get a bit cloying. thats my two bits, Chris - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:41:51 -0600 From: MiChelle Smith Subject: (harbinger) Tour Dates-Updated I am working like the devil to try and help Paula Tour dates up to date on my Paula Cole site. I am updating the page daily and it should be updated by 5pm MT everyday. The URL is http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Studio/9346/ I am adding new things to the site on a frequent basis and so it is as up to date as I can make it. As technology and Paula's tour team sends out info it is placed on the sight. Please check back often and sign the guest or show review book at the bottom of the page. Also please feel free to visit #Paula_Cole on IRC's DALnet!!! :) We are looking for a few good people to help get things rolling there. If you need info on IRC or how to reach the channel please email me privately. A fellow Paula Fan MiChelle Smith "...Didn't say to come in, where the hell have you been??? I can feel excited, you can tell your invited ...Just the fire in your ways, makes up for lost days... Didn't mean to close the door, as I threw you to the floor ...Didn't mean to close the door on my personal whore...." Holly McNarland-- "Elmo" - ----Visit me on the web at : http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/1466---- Do not forget to sign my guestbook!!! ~~Or chat with me by ICQ: UIN 2067985 request reason email~~ - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:37:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dina..." Subject: Re: (harbinger) tori hi.. On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Roxanne Finch wrote: > > Um, I beg to differ. "Marianne" isn't about a school friend that died. > The persona 'Marianne' is meant to represent all women who 'die' > (figuratively, not literally) in today's complicated, confusing and often > hurtful world. well.. during tori's boys for pele tour.. i went to 5 concerts (and met her 3x!) and each time before playing marianne she explained it about a friend from childhood who died.. everyone thought she had killed herself.. but tori never believed that.. she said marianne was the type of person who never made you feel stupid.. who was truly a friend.. i don't have any direct written info to back this up.. but i don't think i heard wrong 5x.. sorry that this is so off topic.. just was itching to respond.. - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Dina gemmy @ IRC Signifying nothing. -Macbeth, Act V, Sc 5. http://home.interlynx.net/~hecate hecate@interlynx.net Dying Is an art, like everything else. I do it exceptionally well. I do it so it feels like hell. -Sylvia Plath - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 22:15:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Jason Subject: (harbinger) smoe.org scheduled outage (fwd) >Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:37:14 -0400 >From: Jeff Wasilko >Subject: smoe.org scheduled outage > >Smoe.org will be offline Sunday morning (EDT) for two outages. > >The first will be from 6am-8am (EDT) for maintenance at my ISP. > >The second outage will be between 9am-2pm (time not definite) for >me to move the servers to my new house. > >I'll send out a note once things are back up and running. > >Jeff - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 22:46:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Jason Subject: Re: (harbinger) Unreleased Response > I don't think my request was as stupid as I gather you think it is. I meant > that many artists release alternate versions of their work on the CD5s as a > bonus to their fans. (Sarah McLachlan does this a lot and I often like the > alt versions better than the originals.) I like Paula's demo of "Bethlehem" > better than the original as well. I've just heard a lot of demos and live > cuts that she might not think fit what she wanted to do, but I still love > them. Usually, though, the tracks they release are demos they did themselves, are stages in the song's development, either by themselves or with the final producer. They aren't the tracks where the artist said, "Ugh, forget it, burn them, fire the producer, this IS NOT what I wanted." That isn't to say fans wouldn't want to hear the tracks. Hell, I'm sure there are Tori fans that would pay good money for a tape grunting on the hopper... What I was talking about is that it isn't terribly realistic to expect the artist to release tracks they weren't happy with to such an extent that they tossed the whole sessions in the trash. Imagine Terry Gilliam had prevented that movie-studio-performed abortion of Brazil from ever having been released. Then imagine fans saying, "Hey, Terry, I'd love to see that version Universal made. Please release it." His reaction most likely would be unprintable. She made a pretty ballsy move (dumping the sessions and taking over as producer) to get rid of those tracks, so although I can understand fans being curious about them, I'm still not going to walk up to Paula and say "Oh, please put those on a single for us!" Jason - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 22:09:38 -0000 From: Casey Subject: Re: (harbinger) tori >Um, I beg to differ. "Marianne" isn't about a school friend that died. >The persona 'Marianne' is meant to represent all women who 'die' >(figuratively, not literally) in today's complicated, confusing and often >hurtful world. Huhhmmm ... this is interesting. Because in many concerts (most memoriably at the last DDI date in Boulder) Tori has said that Marianne is about one person who died. And apparently, Marianne (if that was her name) was a real sweaty, an absolute angel on earth. Tori seems to have been deeply affected by her untimely death. - -Casey - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 22:15:28 -0000 From: Casey Subject: Re: (harbinger) tori >from the opening, where, to >tori, everything is bubbling to the surface [this is TRUE surfacing, ladies & >gentlefolk, not wandering around attempting to write songs about something >when you have no more to say] Ok, I'm not sure if you meant this as a jab at Sarah McLachlan and her new CD or not. If you didn't, you can ignore the rest of this. But, if you did, I think this is really unfair. If you don't *like* 'Surfacing', fine ... that's your opinion. But, I do think it's going to far to say "not wandering around attempting to write songs about something when you have no more to say". I mean thats a really narrow minded thing to say, especially since I 100% agreed with the rest of your post. I did love 'BfP', and this it's her strongest to date. However, I also love 'Surfacing'. And while, no, I would agree that it's not up to par with Sarah's 'FtE', I certainly think it's a damn good album. And there are many very valid lyrics on the CD, many of which are some of my favorite. So, what I'm saying is that Tori and Sarah are tied (and have been for years) as my favorite musicians and I think *both* are a hell of a long way from "...wandering around attempting to write songs about something when you have no more to say". Just my $.02!! - -Casey - -+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+- casey@tisd.net http://www.tisd.net/~casey/ "If I shed a tear, I won't cage it ... if I feel a rage I won't deny it ... I won't fear love" - -Sarah McLachlan "I have my own parties. They involve being barefoot with a piece of fried chicken and a margarita in each hand." - -Tori Amos - -+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+- - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ End of harbinger-digest V2 #74 ******************************