From: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org (harbinger-digest) To: harbinger-digest@smoe.org Subject: harbinger-digest V2 #33 Reply-To: harbinger@smoe.org Sender: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-harbinger-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk harbinger-digest Friday, August 8 1997 Volume 02 : Number 033 HARBINGER DIGEST To post, mail harbinger@smoe.org To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger-digest To get list info file, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: info harbinger-digest Today's Subjects: ---------------- (harbinger) paula .... and nancy reagan???? [HunterXTC@aol.com] Re: (harbinger) Detroit show? [Kara and Tina ] Re: (harbinger) paula .... and nancy reagan???? [Jason ] (harbinger) discussing stuff -Reply ["Kenn Carpenter" ] Re: (harbinger) discussing stuff ["Kenn Carpenter" ] Re: (harbinger) discussing stuff ["Sarah M. Devine" ] Re: (harbinger) discussing stuff ["MoWsE" ] Re: (harbinger) discussing stuff -Reply ["Kenn Carpenter" ] (harbinger) paula .... and nancy reagan???? -Reply ["Kenn Carpenter" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 06:55:56 -0400 (EDT) From: HunterXTC@aol.com Subject: (harbinger) paula .... and nancy reagan???? has anyone else seen the latest issue of spin magazine??? ya know, last month i was praising them because they put superbabe ani difranco on the cover and did a pretty decent interview, but last night as i was making the rounds at the grocery store tracking down some extra firm tofu, i was reading thru this month's issue with the prodigy on the front. they had a review of lalapalooza and lillith fair on consecutive pages, i guess as an attempt to compare and contrast the two... but anyways, in just briefly skimming the article, the reviewer of the lillith show at the gorge was lamenting the fact that the acts were all of the folky "girls with a good message" ilk, and she proceeded to dub paula as the "nancy reagan of the 90s" for wondering where have all the cowboys gone.... she also felt her stage show was self promoting and not altogether genuine. this spin (pardon the pun) by several reviewers, most notably the boston globe piece, really has me ticked off. i mean here is someone who is onstage, giving the audience a treat, putting some energy in the venue, and a reviewer says they are merely being self promoting. it makes me think of james brown on the t.a.m.i. show... the greatest live performance ive ever seen on tape or anywhere else.... where this guy passes out on stage like 3 or 4 times, and his attendants have to try to put a cape around him and help him off the stage, and all of a sudden he rips the cape of and sings a few more bars of please please please.... was that self promoting, or was it just a way of earning the title the hardest working man in show business???? who knows, maybe there is a double standard when youre a woman trying to relate to an audience.... still trying to think of something witty to say when i meet the indigo girls on tuesday at the pittsburgh lillith (yesssssssss!) spanish - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 07:50:45 +0000 From: Kara and Tina Subject: Re: (harbinger) Detroit show? Chris Tower wrote: > > Does anyone know anything about a Paula show in Detroit on Aug. 23rd? > > It's listed on her web page. > YEP! Once again we are soooo lucky to live in Detroit! Paula is one of 8 artists doing a sold-out concert sponspored by a local radio station! Other artists of note are Echo&The Bunnymen and INXS.... We'll be there! K&T ---<--<{@ - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 08:05:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Jason Subject: Re: (harbinger) paula .... and nancy reagan???? > that the acts were all of the folky "girls with a good message" ilk, and she > proceeded to dub paula as the "nancy reagan of the 90s" for wondering where > have all the cowboys gone.... she also felt her stage show was self promoting Unfortunately, cowboys is a sarcastic song and sarcasm is not a very American type of humor. There are a few of us that enjoy and employ sarcasm, but most everyday Americans understand sarcastic humor about as much as your average bovine would. Those that are comming from a particular ideological background are even worse. Notice that there isn't a "Big Book of Feminist Humor." Also, don't forget that the USA has imposed the smiley upon the net. I know people say you're supposed to use a smiley b/c people can't hear intonations in your voice over a text-based medium, but most of the people I've seen complaining "you didn't use a smiley, how was I supposed to know!" wouldn't know sarcasm if it walked up and bit them on their ample asses. Oh, yeah: :) Jason - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:41:38 -0400 From: Chris Tower Subject: (harbinger) discussing stuff Thanks Kenn for the scoop on the Paula show in Detroit. I can't go, but a= friend of mine may be interested in going. There's an FAQ for Paula isn't there? I don't want to waste people's time with FAQs that I have... Anyway, I am just recently a Paula fan. I had never heard of her though I= have heard her music as of earlier this year. Then I noticed she'd be at Lilith Fair and so I bought both of her CDs driving friends to the airpor= t when they only had a CD player in the car and I had bought tapes. At firs= t, I disliked _This Fire_ a lot. But it was my mood. The more I listened, th= e more I liked it. But the event that REALLY made me a Paula fan was seeing her at Lilith in= Detroit. She was elegant and supercharged. I was so impressed. I hadn't really listened to "Me" yet, which is now my favourite song, but I am so = in love with so many Paula songs as well. Some basic questions. Was "I Don't Want to Wait" featured as part of the soundtrack for a movie= or do I know it from radio play only? When I bought _This Fire_, I recognized that song. Do you think "Where Have All the Cowboy's Gone?" is facetious? peace cbt "the brightly colored moth blends into the dirt into the ground" - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 11:52:19 -0400 From: "Kenn Carpenter" Subject: (harbinger) discussing stuff -Reply Chris Tower wrote: > Was "I Don't Want to Wait" featured as part of the soundtrack for a > movie or do I know it from radio play only? When I bought _This Fire_, I > recognized that song. No. The only song Paula has done that appeared on a soundtrack is "Suwannee Jo" from the Blue in the Face soundtrack. It's odd that you mention recognizing "IDWTW", though. I remember hearing "Feelin' Love" and thinking that it was a cover tune. I have no idea what I was thinking of, but it reminded me of something I'd heard somewhere before. > Do you think "Where Have All the Cowboy's Gone?" is facetious? Oh, yeah. Although that concept seems to be entirely lost on certain members of the populace. Peace. Kenn - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:53:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Riphug@aol.com Subject: (harbinger) The Cincy Lilith Story (yes, this is very long, but well worth reading) I think it was a dream.......but why did I have to wake up? It was sooooooo wonderful! And I fell in love with lots of people and lots of music, too. 'TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE LILITH AND ALL THROUGH BORDERS... After somehow getting confused about who would be at Borders at which time, I managed to get there to see Tara MacLean (who would not be performing at LF). I took my two little boys (Coby and Cameron) along..... Just as we were parking the car, we saw a man and a woman carrying a guitar heading into the store. I just KNEW it had to be Tara, so I scampered about trying to get the little one out of his car seat so perhaps we could catch up to her. Once inside the store, though, there was plenty of time to talk with her. As they were setting up and the guy (Bill?) was talking with the store manager, Tara was kind of just standing there, so I walked up to her (after settling my kids into front row seats). I said, "Tara? I LOVE your CD! I especially like Red. I like Evidence, too." She thanked me and apologized that she wouldn't be able to perform Red because they didn't have the right instruments with them that night. But she signed the insert of her CD which I had brought along: "For Jill, Love & Light, Tara MacLean" and then wrote a little note with an arrow pointing to the lyrics of Red, saying "One of my faves, too!" She is so nice and kept smiling at me and the kids during the whole performance. She started with "Let Her Feel the Rain" and then looked at me and said, "You wanted to hear Evidence, right?" I nodded and she said to Bill, "Let's do Evidence." The next song was Holy Tears......and appropriately, my 7-year-old, Coby, suddenly started crying in the middle of the song. He snuggled up to me and said, "It's too loud!" So I ended up with both of my kids burrowed into me for the rest of the show. Tara said that the next song was written by Richard Thompson, "Dimming of the Day." She said it was one of her favorites and that her idol was Emmy Lou Harris and she also loved Bonnie Raitt. She also asked if people were going to LF and said that she'd be *in the wings* when Emmy Lou was on stage. The last song was something to do with God, but I can't recall the name -- it's not on her CD. The show lasted just about 30 minutes and was wonderful (although, it *was* a bit too loud for that small venue). It appeared to me that maybe 40 - 50 people were there. I'm glad that I got to talk with Tara before the show, because afterwards there was a line of people wanting her to sign their CD's and chat. LILITH DAY! BEFORE THE MUSIC STARTED My husband (Bob) and I got to Riverbend at 2:50 and only had to wait 10 minutes or so for the gates to open. Outside the gates one radio station was giving away those Biore zit strips and another one was giving away Indigo Girls water bottles (we didn't realize it, though, until it was too late and they were gone). Once inside, I was very happy to be handed a copy of the LF tape, Music For the Ride. We decided to do some shopping at the booths. To make a very long story short, here's what I ended up with: 1st stop (what was the name of that booth?): Sarah's LF pendant; the LF CD (which I had never picked up at Nine West) 2nd stop (Nettwerk!): I talked with Jay Clark (hi, Jay!) and bought CD's by Taste of Joy, Suzanne Little (Be Here Now), Rose Chronicles (Happily Ever After) and the compilation tape called Lit From Within (lots of great artists!) 3rd stop (Borders): You'll never guess -- more cd's! Emmy Lou Harris (Wrecking Ball), Katell Keineg (O Seasons O Castles), and Michelle Malone (Beneath the Devil Moon). 4th stop (Nine West): T-shirt time! I got the long-sleeved cream-colored LF t-shirt and a cream-colored Sarah baseball cap. AND NOW FOR THE MUSICAL PORTION OF OUR SHOW A pleasant surprise -- Lisa Loeb did a 20-minute set at the Village Acoustic stage at 3:30. She is soooo tiny and cute! She never stopped smiling, either. As she was singing, a short-haired woman in a purple tank top and black shorts was filming Lisa's performance with a small silver video camera. Unfortunately, I didn't notice that the black shorts said Nettwerk on them until I saw her filming another performance later -- but I think it was Cathy Barrett. Was that you, Cathy? Next up on the Village Acoustic stage was Michelle Malone. All dressed in black and rather unfriendly, she sang very well, but had several complaints about things -- such as how next time she might get *30 minutes* to perform. She even managed to run into one of her guitars and knock it down. ;-) Off to the Second Stage to see Kelly Willis. Another tiny little perky girl with a very pleasant country sound. I ordered her CD from Columbia House but it hadn't arrived in time for me to listen to her before LF, but now I know that I won't be disappointed. She kept mentioning how her EP CD is so hard to find...... (Right after Kelly's set, I wandered over to one of the booths and bought a long black dress with big, bright yellow stars on it.) Oh, my! If you've never seen Madeleine Peyroux, put that on your list of *must sees*. She's a great entertainer and has that Billie Holliday sound. Started a bit late because they were working on getting the sound just right (it still was hissing a little). All right.....it's now 5:30.....back to the Village Acoustic stage to see Beth Orton. She's British, y'know, and another frail looking woman (don't these people ever eat? or do they just burn so many calories performing or something?) She had a very gentle air about her and a lovely voice. ON TO THE *BIG* STAGE! WHOO-HOO! 5:50 pm......Lisa Loeb had changed clothes, let her hair down and was performing on the main stage now. I hate to be redundant but she is soooooo cute and smiley! And, yes, I love her voice, too! Emmy Lou Harris was watching Lisa from the wings and came out to sing harmony on a song called Sometimes Called Falling in Love. Kelly Willis was also watching Lisa's performance from the wings. 6:30.....moving as quickly as we can back to Second Stage to see Mary Black. We missed her first song, but still got to see a great performance by this lovely Irish chanteuse (I've always wanted to say that word). Of course, she sings beautifully, but it's nearly as fun to hear her speak with that Irish lilt. As we were heading away from Second Stage, Bob happened to notice a copy of the free Music For the Ride tape lying on the ground under a tree. It appeared the tape had no owner, so he picked it up and now I have a copy to send to my best friend, Martha! ;-) We missed the first song by Emmy Lou on the main stage, but enjoyed her performance. Jewel and her dad were in the wings watching....Jewel was holding a small gold box, which we thought she might give to Emmy Lou, but we never saw that happen. Jewel started at 7:50. I stayed for two songs and couldn't take her high resonant voice any longer (sorry Paul and other Jewel fans). She was probably the most humorous performer as far as making jokes and telling stories in between songs, but I can only listen to her for short periods. So I went off by myself to explore. Bob had given me $20 and asked if I could find him a barbecue sandwich. I never found the sandwich, but I bought myself a large beer and went back to Nettwerk with $15 in hand. I listened to Dayna Manning's CD at the listening station and liked what I heard, so I took the last $15 and bought Dayna's CD. Then I hung around and talked with Jay for quite awhile. I had lots of fun *selling* people on Nettwerk's music, making recommendations about what CD's were the best and how difficult it was to find certain ones. I felt like a music evangelist spreading the *good news* about Nettwerk, Sarah, and other artists. I *sold* a copy of Brewed Awakening to a couple of guys and told a couple about Tara's performance at Borders the previous night. They were disappointed they hadn't known about it and were even more disappointed when I told them that Mary Black had been at Borders that very afternoon at 1:00 (although I didn't go to see her). One girl came up and asked me if I worked with Nettwerk (hee-hee!) and asked me a lot of questions. I had a major self-esteem boost being able to answer ALL of her questions and directing her to the right booths for what she wanted. YES, I AM COOL, BUT NOT QUITE COOL ENOUGH (or should I say Good Enough?) So I'm talking with Jay when this nice-looking Asian guy in a turquoise shirt comes up and sits down on a table next to the booth. Asks Jay some questions.....I ask him, "Are you with Nettwerk, too?" He smiles and says, "Well, kind of." After he leaves and after the mad rush of sales that I've been assisting Jay with, Jay says to me, "You know that guy that came over and sat down? The one you asked if he was with Nettwerk?" I say, "Yes?" Jay says, "That was Brian Minato!" I AM SUCH AN IDIOT! I could have touched him! I could have hugged him! I could have said something more intelligent than "Are you with Nettwerk?" Geeze! It just never occurred to me! Well, at about that time, I realized that the Indigo Girls had taken the stage. So I made my way through the crowd and took my seat (11th row left). Michelle Malone came on stage several times to play guitar and harmonica and sing. Then the greatest part of their set -- one by one, the other artists came out to join Amy and Emily -- first Emmy Lou, then Jewel, Michelle Malone, Lisa Loeb, and finally Sarah. I can't remember which song they did, but I think it might have been Shame On You. Each of the major artists sang a verse of the song and it was so fantastic! JILL AND BILL LOSE THEIR FUMBLING VIRGINITY After the Indigo Girls, I decided to try to find Bill Nguyen (from Lexington, KY). He was the only one that had told me what seats he had so he wasn't hard to find -- he was exactly where he said he'd be sitting and was wearing exactly what he'd said he'd be wearing. We just chatted briefly and both said that this was our very first meeting with another Fumbler. Unfortunately, the Cincy crowd hadn't gotten themselves organized to meet somewhere in particular -- maybe next time? 10:10 pm.....It's amazing how LF ran so smoothly on schedule! Sarah took the stage with her guitar and started with Hold On. She introduced the members of the band at various times throughout her performance.....Brian Minato, Camille, Dave Sinclair, Sean (?) Ashby, and finally Ash and Rex. I love Ash's purple hair! Ok.....the rest of Sarah's set was Good Enough, Wait, Angel (can you believe that people started leaving at this time?), Path of Thorns, Witness, Sweet Surrender, Building a Mystery, and Possession. The encore was Ice Cream, and again she let the audience sing alone for awhile. Then it was over. Lilith Fair was absolutely the most wondermous concert event I've ever attended. It truly seemed more like a *fair* rather than a *concert*. And although I can give you a blow-by-blow description of what I saw last night.......there are no words to describe the intense emotions I felt and still feel.......but those of you who have been to Lilith Fair probably know what I mean. *awed hugs and kisses all around* Jill :D - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:54:02 -0400 From: "Kenn Carpenter" Subject: Re: (harbinger) discussing stuff -Reply -Reply Doug Bailey wrote: > Are you sure "facetious" is the proper word? It means funny, joking, > or in jest. Humorous. I don't see much that's funny about WHAtCG; on > the contrary, it's quite serious... I suppose that depends on how you listen to it, Doug. Personally, I do find the song rather amusing. It reminds me of all of those girls back home in the Midwest who are married before their 19th birthday, have two or three kids before they can even drink legally. Then, they turn around one day and wonder why they are entirely disenchanted with their lives. Perhaps that isn't amusing to other people. Some people would probably say that set of circumstances is entirely acceptable. And they'd be right. Those circumstances can be entirely acceptable for some people. However, those circumstances were never acceptable for me, personally. I wanted something different for my life. So, when I listen to "Cowboys," I'm amused by this woman who is crying in her beer because she ended up with someone who didn't fulfill her dreams. It's one of those situations where I can think to myself, "Boy, am I glad I have a better head on my shoulders than that chick did! At least I didn't toss my life away by making such a long-range life decision before I even knew what the hell I was doing." Whatever my personal impressions of the song, it is evident that Paula sang "Cowboys" in a tongue-in-cheek manner. Peace. Kenn - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 97 13:31:21 -0000 From: Casey Subject: (harbinger) I'm on the Lilith website!! Hey all, Just thought I'd share with everyone by brush with stardom!! My picture is on the Lilith website. Just go to the regular site and then check out Cathy B's diary (from the Nettmedia diary section). Under her August 3rd (Houston, TX) entry is a little story and a picture about me. Woo-hoo!! And trust me, no one was more surprised than me ;) - -Casey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= / "If I shed a tear, I won't cage it ... if I feel a rage I won't / \ deny it ... I won't fear love" \ / -Sarah McLachlan; 'Fumbling Towards Ecstasy' / \ \ / "I have my own parties. They involve being barefoot with a piece / \ of fried chicken and a margarita in each hand." \ / -Tori Amos / =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:10:37 -0400 From: "Kenn Carpenter" Subject: Re: (harbinger) discussing stuff Doug Bailey wrote: > However, I had made the assumption that Chris was asking about > Paula's intent behind the song, not asking about your personal > viewpoint. I don't think she meant it to be facetious. She might have > meant it to mean different things to different people, I don't know. From what I've read and heard, your last comment is probably closest to the mark. Paula intended for the song to be interpreted in different ways by different people. Paula has mentioned on a few occasions that it strikes her how many guys will raise their beers when she sings "I will wash the dishes, while you go have a beer." I wouldn't be too surprised to find out that she'd be similarly stricken by how many women out there might be listening to "Cowboys" with an empathetic ear. One can pretty easily envision a woman, forlorn and looking for their own Marlboro Man, being reduced to tears by the words of "Cowboys." In fact, in some ways, the woman in "Cowboys" reminds me quite a bit of the woman depicted in Reba McEntire's "Is There Life Out There?" (yeah, I listen to country music sometimes.... "Fancy" is one of my favorites). That song is about a woman who dreams of having a life other than the one she has chosen for herself (husband, kids, mortgage, mediocrity). However, even though she dreams of a different life, she has no real intention of making any changes in her current situation. The woman in Reba's song isn't nearly as pathetic or whiny as the one in Paula's, however, but apathy and inaction still rule the day. Separate realities, I suppose. Peace. Kenn - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 15:03:28 -0500 From: "dbailey@ro.com" Subject: Re: (harbinger) discussing stuff Kenn Carpenter wrote: > The woman in > Reba's song isn't nearly as pathetic or whiny as the one in Paula's, I think "pathetic and whiny" is a bit strong. IMO there's nothing wrong with wanting a traditional housewife/breadwinner relationship. If they both want that, fine. It doesn't mean either is any less of a person for it. But I do think it's pathetic for them to grow apart to the point where he goes out drinking with the boys, leaving her alone at home, unnoticed. But that can happen to anyone. > however, but apathy and inaction still rule the day. I'm not convinced the woman in the song is apathetic or inactive. I see the song as a moment in time, where she's just coming to these realizations. What she does with this new attitude towards her marriage is subject for another song, I suppose. But there's many interpretations out there, so take your pick. Doug - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 16:09:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Sarah M. Devine" Subject: Re: (harbinger) discussing stuff Hi, With all this talk of song lyrics, I had a few thoughts. Is it just me, or is part of the beauty of music in general that the interpretation of the lyrics is extremely personal? To add to that richness, we can share ideas about what we get out of one song with each other, while not imposing our ideas on that person. To tell you the truth, my interpretation of a song may change daily without even discussing the lyrics with anyone at all. I understand that an artist has something in mind when writing what he or she writes, and I do believe I have missed some obvious messages in some instances, but no artist can ever predict how a song exactly is going to move his or her listeners. All right, it is late in the afternoon on a Friday, so I don't know how much sense this is all making. Sorry. If anyone is surfing the net and wants something to check out, my brother's band, Kill Hannah, has a web sight. They are an unsigned, rather alternative band out of Chicago. As far as influences go and where the band is headed, that is all explained. I was just thinking about it today because he writes the lyrics to all of the songs (which you can also find while browsing) and, while I know some of the stories behind them, I am curious what any of you might think. Thanks for listening. Sarah p.s.-I, unfortunately, have decided that it would be almost too appropriate for me send the lyrics of "Throwing Stones" to a certain guy I know. That's another great thing about lyrics, though. They can articulate perfectly what you may struggle to be able to put so eloquently. - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:38:06 -0700 From: "MoWsE" Subject: Re: (harbinger) discussing stuff Kenn: How is it that you interpret the woman in the "Cowboy" song as as pathetic or whiny??? I'm just curious because I don't see or feel that at all....I don't see your vision of her. Whiny??? Just Curious...Mouse - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:25:37 -0400 From: "Kenn Carpenter" Subject: Re: (harbinger) discussing stuff -Reply Doug wrote: > I think "pathetic and whiny" is a bit strong. IMO there's nothing > wrong with wanting a traditional housewife/breadwinner relationship. > If they both want that, fine. It doesn't mean either is any less of > a person for it. Oh, certainly... I never intended to imply that there was anything wrong with wanting that kind of a relationship. I don't want it for myself, but it worked well enough for my parents. I admire both of them very much for the choices they made for their lives. > But I do think it's pathetic for them to grow apart to the point where he > goes out drinking with the boys, leaving her alone at home, unnoticed. > But that can happen to anyone. Very true. If they've grown that far apart, I'd have to wonder why they bother to stay together. However, it takes two to tango - he's not the only one who is acting inappropriately (I'll stop referring to him or her as "pathetic"). Granted, he's out getting tanked with his farm buddies, but she's just as guilty because she's allowing it to happen to her. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that she should be laying down ultimatums to this guy and telling him it's her way or the highway. She should allow him to do whatever he wants to do. He's an individual with the right to make his own decisions for what he wants for his life (married or not). But, she is also an individual and she's responsible for her own well-being and happiness. If she's not happy with who he has become, she shouldn't be with him. I'm hesitant to use psycho-babble, but she's enabling him (Ugh... I feel like Sally Jesse...) by sticking around, picking up his dirty underwear and buying him even more beer when she goes to do her grocery shopping at the local Piggly Wiggly. I'm sure I'll get responses for those last comments. "That's easy for you to say. You've never been married." "What about the kids? You can't just summarily dismiss their involvement in this family! They deserve to grow up in a two-parent home!" "Why should they just throw away all the years they've had together??" My response to those exclamations would be the same. Are these people happy? If he's not happy and she's not happy, why bother being together? Certainly not for the kids' sakes. Why would the kids want to be living to two really unhappy people? Marriage vows, religious implications and family values aside, going separate ways sounds like a good plan for this couple. Long live cynicism. Peace. Kenn - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:45:09 -0400 From: "Kenn Carpenter" Subject: Re: (harbinger) discussing stuff -Reply Mouse said: > How is it that you interpret the woman in the "Cowboy" song as as > pathetic or whiny??? I'm just curious because I don't see or feel that at > all....I don't see your vision of her. Whiny??? Eye of the beholder, I suppose. I see her as pathetic (throw "whiny" in with this, too) because she appears to have stayed in this unhappy relationship longer than she ever should have. And now, she's pining away for the dream image of the guy on the white horse and her "happy ending." She's bemoaning the fact that she's getting a raw deal, but she appears (to me) to be blaming it on her man when it's not entirely his fault. It's up to her to make her own happy ending. If her life is a story that she's a character in and it doesn't look like it going to have a happy ending, it's not going to help to stick around and wait for him to change. He's not likely to be changing to soon. If ever. The story still won't likely end happily. Please be aware that these are just my observations, folks. I'm not trying to sway anyone's way of thinking or impose my values on anyone. Also, please don't take these comments as direct attacks on any personal convictions any of you might hold dear. I'm not pointing fingers. I'm just talking. And... thanks, Doug. This list has been too quiet lately. It's nice to have a good discussion going again. :) Peace. Kenn - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 18:01:15 -0400 From: g Subject: Re: (harbinger) discussing stuff I wondered about this, too! The only part of the song I feel could even ne interpreted as whiny is when she sings "I am wearing my new dress tonight, but you don't even notice"... If I were wearing a new dress and my husband didn't notice, I'd whine too! > Kenn: How is it that you interpret the woman in the "Cowboy" song as as > pathetic or whiny??? I'm just curious because I don't see or feel that at > all....I don't see your vision of her. Whiny??? Just Curious...Mouse - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:18:53 -0400 From: "Kenn Carpenter" Subject: (harbinger) paula .... and nancy reagan???? -Reply The inimitable Spanish writes: > she proceeded to dub paula as the "nancy reagan of the 90s" for > wondering where have all the cowboys gone.... Seems to me Nancy Reagan would be the last notable to be pondering the location of all the ranch dudes.... She and Ronnie and long-time cowpokes with their own ranch and everything. She must have hot- and cold-running cowboys at her fingertips! Even if the writer was referring to Nancy's "stand by your man" ethics, she'd be off-base. Nancy Reagan may be many things (and many of things might be quite unpleasant), but she definitely loves her husband and, in my opinion, she certainly never let him stand in the way of her doing exactly what she wanted to do. OK.. so there were rumors of a peccadillo with Ol' Blue Eyes, but those accusations were never supported. :) So.. did I miss something? Even if one were to view the sum total of Paula's ouevre as "Cowboys," I see absolutely nothing to tie Nancy Reagan and Paula. This writer should really send her resume to the Village Voice. > she also felt her stage show was self promoting and not altogether > genuine. Well... it's obvious. This writer very simply never actually attended Paula's show. Or perhaps she somehow got Paula confused with Fiona Apple. ;) Go ahead.. let me have it, Fiona fans. I'll eat it up with a spoon!!! :) Peace. Kenn - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:53:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "D. Doody" Subject: Re: (harbinger) paula .... and nancy reagan???? -Reply On Fri, 8 Aug 1997, Kenn Carpenter wrote: > > she also felt her stage show was self promoting and not altogether > > genuine. > > Well... it's obvious. This writer very simply never actually attended > Paula's show. Or perhaps she somehow got Paula confused with Fiona > Apple. ;) > You know, I think Fiona's stage show must have really changed since I saw her. I think it was only a few months ago (March, maybe?). Then, she seemed quite shy. She played the piano for most of her songs, and didn't speak a whole lot in between songs. She did sing and dance at the mic for a few, but she wasn't overly personable or demonstrative (except for her bony hips shaking). I thought her music made up for her lack of personality, so I still enjoyed the show. But I've heard numerous complaints from people about her on-stage persona these days. I was surprised, but then I watched Leno last night. Fiona's display was really disappointing. She was doing some giddy-thing where she'd put her hand up over her mouth and pretend to giggle. When she sang, she sounded pretty good (if a bit nervous). But the (seemingly) fake little-girl routine was totally unnecessary and detracted from my enjoyment a great deal. I'd love to hear what how her stage show evolves, so I can decide whether it's worth it to see her live again, or settle for listening to the CD (which I enjoy quite a bit). To put in some Paula content, the two times I've seen her she's been amazingly down to earth and *real*. Genuinely appreciative of her audience's adulation. She'd better come back to Seattle when she returns to the US this fall. :-) Dave - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 21:40:56 -0400 (EDT) From: MuzikJok@aol.com Subject: (harbinger) paula theme does anybody know where i can get a paula theme - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 22:23:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Jason Subject: Re: (harbinger) discussing stuff On Fri, 8 Aug 1997, g wrote: > I wondered about this, too! The only part of the song I feel could even > ne interpreted as whiny is when she sings "I am wearing my new dress > tonight, but you don't even notice"... If I were wearing a new dress > and my husband didn't notice, I'd whine too! Cowboys is an odd song. First of all, it doesn't involve Paula, it involves a character. Second, Paula's feelings toward that character are mixed--she's said she was trying to do a sarcastic XTC-type song, but didn't entirely succeed. Sometimes she acting as the character, sometimes she's consciously outside the character but still speaking through the character's perspective--using the mask makes sense. In the end, one could say the song fails in that it never decides how it feels about the character. It could be summarized as "You bought the old-fashioned woman's role, and it bit you in the ass" but can't decide whether to empathize with the character or disdain her. Jason - ------------------------------ To unsubscribe, mail majordomo@smoe.org with: unsubscribe harbinger Digest, further unsub and problems FAQ at: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/lists/harbinger.html For This Fire kinda-lyrics write Riphug@aol.com ------------------------------ End of harbinger-digest V2 #33 ******************************