From: owner-goths-digest@smoe.org (goths-digest) To: goths-digest@smoe.org Subject: goths-digest V2 #203 Reply-To: goths@smoe.org Sender: owner-goths-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-goths-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk goths-digest Tuesday, December 29 1998 Volume 02 : Number 203 Today's Subjects: ----------------- masses [YESTIM ] Re: goths-digest V2 # [steve ] fascist list ["vampyria the beautiful" ] Re: fascist list ["Lally Gal" ] Re: fascist list [Wrygel@aol.com] Re: fascist list [Rhaspy2567@aol.com] Re: fascist list [Wrygel@aol.com] Re: fascist list [Leechwife7@aol.com] Re: fascist list [naeelah@mindspring.com] Re: fascist list ["vampyria the beautiful" ] Re: fascist list [Tracy ] uh what the fuck is going on? [GothGoil@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 05:29:52 -0600 From: YESTIM Subject: masses umm...the recent events of this list have officially damaged my aura or something cheesy like that.......i very rarely post, but i thought that i would decay my temporary boredom by adding my own less-than-omnicient commentary on the relevant occurrences....umm....first of all......its not nice to be mean....mean people suck....umm....and all those other clichés that are applicable.....all the pending meanness is just making me sick and blind...maybe deaf too.....i can't really remember....anyway....don't rip on people....its bad for you...it makes other people hate you....ummm...it makes you more prone to get lung cancer and herpes and death...etc .................. then there's all this talk about beauty...well...while physical beauty is obviously a hoax and therefor obsolete, true beauty is in less superficial qualities...(of course this has all been said thousands of times by just about everybody, but its never too insignificant to mention)...our new-comer chris has a very charismatic style in his emails, and while he blankets himself in a less-than-confident barrage of disclaimers, he is obviously a beautiful person...... i suppose that's all i have to say for now...besides the fact that i'm dissappointed becuz the x-files was a rerun today...but next week is supposed to be an all new one.... so i guess i can pretend to be excited..... bi bi rasputina people luv.etc.tim. ps...sorry if you got this twice.....i'm trying to switch email adresses..so i'm playing with my personal dillemma of two email adresses. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:47:50 -0500 (EST) From: steve Subject: Re: goths-digest V2 # can we please stop categorizing people? i feel that any person who categorizes him/herself is a lameass and not worth getting to know;). also...i feel this list would be a happier place if we just fucked terms like 'goth' and such. and to chris, welcome to the list (haha). we all like newbies, so you dont really need to draw all the extra attention by saying your ugly and fat and no one likes you. your 24, go to one of those self-help seminars. so...to change the subject...and as we await the answers to our questions we sent to the Ladies...i'll post my top ten cds of 98 (yeah, i know, i know, delayed reaction). i liked reading other's lists...i saw some stuff i didnt know and checked it out online and it was cool. so... 1. Tori Amos--from the choirgirl hotel - Amazing. 'nuff said. 2. Rasputina--thanks for the ether - the second best album by the best band around;) 3. Liz Phair--whitechocolatespaceegg - so, she made us wait 4 years...it was well worth it. 4. Massive Attack--mezzanine - i dont care how much you hate trip hop...go out and by this album RIGHT NOW!!! 5. PJ Harvey--is this desire? - really awesome...however, in a few years i think it'll be thrown in the same pile as Tori's Boys for Pele (albums that are brilliant pieces of art...but not always listenable) 6. Garbage--version 2.0 - better than the first one, for those of you still in doubt. 7. Ani Difranco--Little Plastic Castle - one of her more accessible albums. 8. Hole--Celebrity Skin - i dont give a fuck who wrote what, it's a great album. 9. Heather Nova--Siren - the lyrics really arent anything that hasnt been done already...but her voice is just the greatest...she really is a siren. eat your heart out celina dion. 10.Lisa Gerrard and Peter Bourke--Duality - i want to be listening to this cd when i die (sorry for the morbidniss) Honorable Mentions: Madonna--Ray of Light - hello, my name is steve, and i am a madonna fan. haha just kidding, i've loved her since i was 10 and im not about to stop now. RoL is no "Like a Prayer," but it's the next best thing! Rufus Wainwright - i saw some others mention him. definitely check him out. can this possible be the "male tori"? hahha;) Tricky - Angels with Dirty Faces Portishead--Live NYC - i worship this cd...didnt put it in the top ten cuz it wasnt really new material (oh jesus wept im starting to make rules for this shit) Emma Townshend--Winterland - im the only person i know who liked this album. that makes me feel special. B-52's--Time Capsule - fun to have lots of faves on one cd. all my fave artists put out cds this year...looks like next year shall be a bit boring and since im a huge concert buff....i'll post my favorite tours of 98 (not my fave shows, cuz then the list would be all tori and garbage hehe) 1. Tori Amos - saw her 6 times. only gripe is they're so damned expensive. i am now broke. 2. Heather Nova - her voice live is even better than on cd 3. Garbage - im still in denial that they're opening for alanis. 4. Liz Phair - finally got a chance to see the godess do her thang 5. B-52's/Pretenders - i danced till my feet bled. 6. Massive Attack - wow wow wow. great show with lots of sexy vocals.;) 7. Ani Difranco - she has much more rhythm live than she does on her cds. 8. Chantal Kreviazuk - so, everyone says she's a bitch. so, that song about god was cheesy. i dont care. she has the most powerful voice, and it was just her and her piano...'nuff said. 9. Cowboy Junkies - margo's voice is sooo soothing 10.Lilith - just cuz i slept my way up to the second row:). and i also got to meet heather nova and imani coppola...so what was supposed to be a shit day on the soggy lawn turned out to be a wonderful concert experience. notice RASPUTINA isnt on my tour list. maybe thats because they FAILED to make a STOP in DETROIT on their little mini tour. hehe:) sorry to bore you all to death..but im at home for the holidays and ready to kill a family member or two...so im trying to keep busy by emailing:) steve, who never posts, so im allowed to do long ones every once in awhile:) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:21:36 PST From: "vampyria the beautiful" Subject: fascist list What the fuck?! Mike was kicked off of the list for expressing his opinion, which I assumed that this liast was designed not only to speak of non-Rasputina things, but as a vehicle for free speech and expressing ones self. I think that he shouldnt have been kicked off because, well, 1st of all, I believed that the post that was posted by Chris was sent via personal e-mail by MIke, and not to the list. Chris shouldn't have replied to the whole list, I think that he should've just kept it between him and Mike, the way MIke tried to do. Its complete and utter bullshit that he couldn't have replied personally, he posted it to the list, reulting in Mike getting kicked off? What kind of totaltarian nazi list is this?! Melora is all for expressing yourself and opinions and Mike was only doing that.... I'm very dissapointed that he had to leave.. its like picking and choosing who is good enough for this list.... Thornia ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:32:15 PST From: "Lally Gal" Subject: Re: fascist list > 1st of all, I believe that the post that was posted by >Chris was sent via personal e-mail by MIke, and not to the list. Chris >shouldn't have replied to the whole list, I think that he should've just >kept it between him and Mike, the way MIke tried to do. Thornia has a valid point here. granted, there was no need for Mike to be so unpleasant to a newcomer and give a bad impression of the people of this list, but it does seem unfair that Mike was kicked off for a personal note. again, i have nothing but sympathy for chris, but it almost seems like he was tattling or something by responding to the whole list like that. Chris, i understand your need for sympathy and attention and acceptance, and maybe i'm not seeing the whole picture, but i agree with Thornia that this whole situation is not competely fair. ~~~Lori ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:39:26 EST From: Wrygel@aol.com Subject: Re: fascist list In a message dated 12/28/98 2:24:24 PM Central Standard Time, thornia@hotmail.com writes: > What the fuck?! Mike was kicked off of the list for > expressing his opinion, which I assumed that this liast was designed not > only to speak of non-Rasputina things, but as a vehicle for free speech > and expressing ones self. I think that he shouldnt have been kicked off > because, well, 1st of all, I believed that the post that was posted by > Chris was sent via personal e-mail by MIke, and not to the list. Chris > shouldn't have replied to the whole list, I think that he should've just > kept it between him and Mike, the way MIke tried to do. Its complete > and utter bullshit that he couldn't have replied personally, he posted > it to the list, reulting in Mike getting kicked off? What kind of > totaltarian nazi list is this?! Melora is all for expressing yourself > and opinions and Mike was only doing that.... I'm very dissapointed that > he had to leave.. its like picking and choosing who is good enough for > this list.... Exactly, the whole thing is very selective Nazi-esque and if someone is going to be kicked off because they happened to offend someone(s) with their opinion then you might as well start kicking everyone off if their own opinion doesn't match this set standard. Keeping your opinons to yourself whether they are critical or friendly is not truthful and of course going with the ol' cliche' , honesty is the best policy, opinions, negative or positive, are an essential among discussions and people. Rigel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:54:17 EST From: Rhaspy2567@aol.com Subject: Re: fascist list Hey, First I think mike was a total asshole for saying those things to Chris...and I'm glad Chris posted that to the list because, if I posted my first email to this list and received an email like Mike's I would have ditched this gothdigest in a second.... I can't believe someone would be upset that the jerk is gone.....I think the list owner gave this a lot of thought and said this guy has to go....oh yeah, use the excuse free speech...that's bullshit.... Who would want to join this list if they posted a harmless email and some guy/girl totally tore them down... I'm rather upset that Chris might leave, and not that this mike kid would stay..... kIM on another note...I'm broke from t.a. concerts as well ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:24:05 EST From: Wrygel@aol.com Subject: Re: fascist list In a message dated 12/28/98 3:58:21 PM Central Standard Time, Rhaspy2567@aol.com writes: > I can't believe someone would be upset that the jerk is gone.....I think > the > list owner gave this a lot of thought and said this guy has to go....oh yeah, > > use the excuse free speech...that's bullshit.... I'm not upset that 'jerk', whomever he is, is gone, I'm upset that a bunch of whiny people can't take some truthful criticism and are too weak to handle it and instead whine about how noone has the right and noone should say something just because it might offend someone ...TOUGH SHIT, if someone can't take something then they're either going to ignore it or let it get to them, either way people are still going to speak their harsh and truthful opinions because they have the right to, and that ' free speech ' is not an excuse, no compensation is being made, the issue is not about if it was justifiable or fair that this guy got kicked off the list , it's about censorship and limiting someone's opinion just because someone is offended. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:38:51 EST From: Leechwife7@aol.com Subject: Re: fascist list Come on all of you, why do you all incist on creating a civil war among the only people (in my case) who look at you as a person not a freak. I mean im not one to judge, i personally believe in no wrong, or no right, but come on, just step back for a second, and think about what you all are doing. This is not meant to stir up anymore emotions, mearly to make you all aware of the harm that this could bring to each other. Please concider this. And i wouldnt appriciate opening my mailbox tommorow morning to find another e-mail saying something to the effect of "hes an asshole" or some shit like that, even if it doesnt intend that. Sure we are all entitled to our opinions, i am exercizing my right to do so now. Please Dont choke on the bone. thanks steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:04:03 -0500 From: naeelah@mindspring.com Subject: Re: fascist list vampyria the beautiful wrote: > > What the fuck?! Mike was kicked off of the list for > expressing his opinion, which I assumed that this liast was designed not > only to speak of non-Rasputina things, but as a vehicle for free speech > and expressing ones self. While I'm pretty much neutral on micheal's [ae? ea? hell, mike will do] expulsion, I can see why Chris S. chose to do what he did. Chris seems to have been 'keeping an eye' on mike for a while because he barely contributed to the list, and mostly just complained about 'goths' and attacked people who he thought fell under his definition of goth (which was basically the definition of a doom cookie [1]). Mike can exercise his right to freedom of speech until he chokes on his tongue, but he's always been an asshole (imho) and he has driven away at least one potential contributer. It's just life. You bitch at your teacher you're probably going to get detention. You harass an officer, he'll probably arrest you. You mouth off to your boss, you're probably going to get fired. Most other people in positions of power, when offended, will deny you of *something*. Maybe they're not justified in doing it, but they've been doing it all along and will probably never stop. Chris isn't kicking off everyone who has done something he disagreed with, he's getting rid of one person who has constantly been a snot. > I think that he shouldnt have been kicked off > because, well, 1st of all, I believed that the post that was posted by > Chris was sent via personal e-mail by MIke, and not to the list. Chris > shouldn't have replied to the whole list, I think that he should've just > kept it between him and Mike, the way MIke tried to do. Yeah, I agree that chris (the newbie) shouldn't have forwarded the e-mail to the list. People who post private flames and respond publically have always annoyed me. We don't know why he did it, and we don't know if his reasoning is justifiable, but it's posted and done with. I think he probably did it for support from the group, and to see if all rasputina fans really *were* like that. Chris S. seems to be quite the democrat, so maybe he'll consider letting mike back (assuming he wants to come back) if enough list members appeal. But I'm sure it would be on parole... katie [1]- if you want a definition, e-mail me... - -- * Just call me Cuckoo? * ICQ#1791425 — AIM: naeelah -- As featured by Papa Pan! * "This is Cleveland, dammit! People need nipple clamps!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:56:21 PST From: "vampyria the beautiful" Subject: Re: fascist list > > Chris S. seems to be quite the democrat, so maybe he'll consider >letting mike back (assuming he wants to come back) if enough list >members appeal. But I'm sure it would be on parole... a democrat?!!? where did you get that from? I saw NO vote at all and NO list-member input on wheater or not he got booted. I would have no problem w/ Mike getting kicked off if there would've been a confidential vote that he lost. Thornia <==pro-Mike ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:52:30 -0800 (PST) From: Tracy Subject: Re: fascist list First the top ten billion cds & hanson. Then the arguments over posting non-rasputina things. Now this. What next, friends? Can't we talk about Rasputina? Or, if we must get off-topic, can it be about something other than who is right in a stupid argument? I think that we should have voted about Mike because our opinions are so varied, and who is on the list is an important non-rasputina topic that concerns us all. Even if he did post bitchy opinions, I think we are grown up enough to ignore it and delete the posts. I wonder if we can agree on anything other than liking Rasputina. End this petty war and restore my faith in a unified Rasputina list. Tres _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 02:05:46 EST From: GothGoil@aol.com Subject: uh what the fuck is going on? pro-mike? are people serious? man, and to think i thought this was a rasputina list..... ~*christina*~ ------------------------------ End of goths-digest V2 #203 ***************************