From: owner-good-noise-digest@smoe.org (good-noise-digest) To: good-noise-digest@smoe.org Subject: good-noise-digest V4 #12 Reply-To: good-noise@smoe.org Sender: owner-good-noise-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-good-noise-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk good-noise-digest Monday, January 29 2001 Volume 04 : Number 012 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: the bootleg CD issue [FolkDude@aol.com] Re: the bootleg CD issue [Smithfinn@aol.com] The issue ["Susan Krauss" ] Re: The issue [Smithfinn@aol.com] Re: Boots [Davidfta@aol.com] Re: Boots [ThePsyche@aol.com] Re: The issue [Joe DeRouen ] Bootlegging?! ["cycle12345" ] Re: The issue ["cycle12345" ] Re: the bootleg CD issue [SAbrams613@aol.com] Re: Bootlegging?! [FolkDude@aol.com] Re: Bootlegging?! ["cycle12345" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 10:51:14 EST From: FolkDude@aol.com Subject: Re: the bootleg CD issue jderouen@sparkynet.com writes: > But if John Gorka and his manager are allright with the > bootlegs - and from everything I've heard, they are - then > why are we even discussing this? Okay, I've been biting my tongue on this one, but let me step forward with another angle that seems to be getting overlooked here. One of the tracks on the latest "bootleg" CD was taken from the "WDIY Studio Sessions" CD, which I compiled and produced for WDIY. WDIY is a public radio station, and for those who aren't familiar with the concept of public radio, let me explain that we are a non-profit, commercial-free station, run largely by unpaid volunteers (like me). The station doesn't sell advertising time, so our operating expenses must come from various non-profit fundraising activities -- like, for instance, that CD. John and his management were kind enough to let us use that unique recording of "Cypress Trees" for the limited-edition "Studio Sessions" CD, because it was something they could do to help keep WDIY on the air. The purpose of the CD was to raise money for the station, and having a track from John on there provided an incentive for people to buy it. Now as I watch the "bootleg" copies of that recording being passed around, I am acutely aware that WDIY is receiving NO money from those copies, and all I can think of is that I wish each of those people who are receiving them had chosen to buy their copy from the station instead. Again, WDIY is non-profit, so it's not about anybody getting rich, it's about allowing the radio station to survive, so that there will be an avenue through which people can discover and enjoy great music like John's. A bootleg endeavor such as this undermines that effort rather directly. It would be different if we were talking about an otherwise-unavailable or out-of-print recording here, but in this case, we're not. The "Studio Sessions" CD is still for sale directly from WDIY, but each of you receiving the "bootleg" CD now has one less reason to buy it. I'll step off the soapbox now -- but there's more information about the WDIY "Studio Sessions" CD and how to order it at: http://www.wdiyfm.org/whatsnew.html Sincerely, Otto =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= OTTO BOST Producer/Host of "Acoustic Eclectic" FolkDude@aol.com Mondays 7-9 PM Quakertown, PA USA 88.1 & 93.9 WDIY-FM, Allentown =-=-=< http://members.aol.com/folkdude/acouecle.html >=-=-= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:11:11 EST From: Smithfinn@aol.com Subject: Re: the bootleg CD issue Dear Otto, I understand your point completely and I think if Jos had really considered the facts concerning that particular track, he maybe would have dealt with it differently. I have tried in all cases to buy the CD's that have tracks such as these and am happy when you point out to us where we can purchase them. Jos's CD, for me, at least, is just a handy way of having all these songs in one place, but I prefer to buy the "real" CD's first to support efforts such as yours. Plus I like to hear the other artists and it is a good way of being introduced to new music. Jos wrote Bryn and myself this morning and expressed his difficulty in his use of the English language. He limits these CD's that he makes, making only 10, and really I believe he means no harm. I honestly mean no harm when I "donate" money to him for these CD's and will continue to buy the originals when I find them. Thank you for the link. I will place my order today! I am positive that Jos did not intentionally undermine the station's ability to sell more copies of that CD and perhaps more people here now know of its availability. Susan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:47:46 -0800 From: "Susan Krauss" Subject: The issue I was not aware that John and his manager supported this bootleg effort. I have hundreds of tapes/boots but I never paid a cent for any of them and I'm still of the opinion that the best way to do this is through trades not through money. susan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:03:45 EST From: Smithfinn@aol.com Subject: Re: The issue Correction: I didn't really mean to imply that John or his manager supported the bootlegging, only that they were aware of both of Jos' "bootlegs" and did not tell Jos to stop what he was doing. Don't want to get anyone in trouble here or put words in anyone's mouths! Now I will retire my opinions on this subject! Susan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:41:03 EST From: Davidfta@aol.com Subject: Re: Boots Hi. David Tamulevich here, John's manager. I have been on the road- and have not had a chance to read all the the e-mails regarding this, but here is mine..and John's opinion. I said to Jos- this is probably not "legal"...and I don't want to be involved in that end of it...that it his his choice to produce these cds....but with so few of them, I can't imagine anyone will mind. That said- he is not "making money" on these cds- and he is making cuts of John's music available to people who want them- and most of these cuts are our of print or very difficult to find. We really have no problem with it. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:05:31 EST From: ThePsyche@aol.com Subject: Re: Boots After all this talk of legality or illegality of making bootlegs for trade, etc., I guess what we all need to remember are the immortal words of Nancy Sinatra who sang, "These boots are made for walking, and that's just what they'll do, One of the days these boots are gonna walk all over you....." Doesn't make any sense I know, but seeing the word boots over and over again in my mailbox, I kept hearing the song. The only way to purge that song from my psyche was to pass it on to all of you. I prefer John's version of Thirsty Boots which I have on the Bleecker Street, Greenwich Village in the Sixties Compilation to Nancy's Boot song. I also have that song on a bootleg someone made for me. Adios, Thirsty Bryn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:06:43 -0600 From: Joe DeRouen Subject: Re: The issue Susan Krauss wrote: > I was not aware that John and his manager supported this bootleg effort. I > have hundreds of tapes/boots but I never paid a cent for any of them and I'm > still of the opinion that the best way to do this is through trades not > through money. Oh, I agree - I'd much rather trade than buy. But if the only way I can get it is to buy... then I'll buy. Joe ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:11:04 -0500 From: "cycle12345" Subject: Bootlegging?! Hello, Gorka-gang and fellow Gorka-holics! The discussion of "bootlegging" CDs came up on this list a number of months ago and, after some anger and much discussion, it appeared to have been resolved when Paula and Susan, two exceptionally kind and considerate individuals (whom I've never met, but that will soon be resolved . . .), explained that there was basically no profit gained from it, and no harm done to the artist. There are no greater JG fans on this planet than Paula and Susan, and I know that they would never do (or recommend) anything that might harm an artist, and they changed my mind about this issue. They have explained it again this time and I, for one, believe them and am no longer concerned about it. It may be interesting for all of you to know that I "discovered" David Wilcox via a "bootlegged" cassette recording of his CD, "How Did You Find Me Here", which was given to me in friendship. Subsequently, I went out and bought all of DW's CDs, have purchased and presented many more of them over the years to family and friends as gifts, and have attended six of his concerts and bought his t-shirts while there. (So you see, as the result of a single "bootleg" cassette, David Wilcox and his wife, Nance Pettit, will have a little easier time sending their son, Nathan, to college, but that's "a-whole-nother story" . . . ) And, as another result of that very positive experience, I eventually ended up on the DW "chat list", and it was there that Paula and others convinced me to give JG a listen. WOW!!! Now, as Paula would say, I must confess; I am a Gorka-holic! I went through the same process with JG, buying all of his CDs (hey; does he sell t-shirts?), recommending him to others (and giving them "bootlegged" cassettes of his music, hoping to get them hooked, too . . . ) and attending only one JG concert (but with the incredible Lucy Kaplansky - so nanny, nanny, boo-boo!) so far, but there will be more, dang it! When I couldn't make it to one of his concerts last year (after I had already purchased the non-refundable tickets), I made sure that someone else got to go, at my expense, so there wouldn't be any empty seats in the house, and there weren't, of course . . . Yesterday afternoon, upon being informed by Jos on-list that I was one of the lucky few who had secured this latest CD that he's produced, I placed "$15 cash American" in the mail to him and can't wait to get my new JG CD entitled "Between One and Eight". And if anyone here wants me to share it with them, just send me a note and I'll do my best to get a copy of it to you, but it will have to be on cassette since only my two sons at college can "afford" a CD burner . . . Finally, to Otto; I greatly appreciate what public radio does for us and would gladly send a donation to WDIY if you will publish the necessary information on this list. In that way, others may also want to follow suit out of appreciation for JG and other such artists who are brought to our attention via family, friends, radio stations and "bootleg" music!!! Thanks, kids!! Steve! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:21:11 -0500 From: "cycle12345" Subject: Re: The issue Hello, Susan! Please allow me to say (and I mean this in all sincerity - there is no tongue in the cheek . . . ) that you are obviously pure of mind, thought and deed when it comes to being loyal to your favorite artists, and your methods of acquiring copies of their music are quite honorable. That's great! Who could argue with that?! Bless you! Please read my previous post entitled "Bootlegging?!" I, for one, hope that we can all get back to enjoying JG's wonderful music however, whenever possible, even if our various methods might differ occasionally. Thanks! Steve > I was not aware that John and his manager supported this bootleg effort. I > have hundreds of tapes/boots but I never paid a cent for any of them and I'm > still of the opinion that the best way to do this is through trades not > through money. > > susan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 21:00:55 EST From: SAbrams613@aol.com Subject: Re: the bootleg CD issue We're discussing the issue of the artist and manager losing income. But as Otto's post shows, there are many other 'losses' for every bootleg made. Whether bootleg copies of music are paid for or shared freely, a whole chain of individuals and companies in the music industry are deprived of their rightfully earned income. Again, I know my stand on this issue is unpopular on this list, but no matter how you rationalize it, making a bootleg is the theft of an artists' intellectual and creative property. And Otto's post gives us a glimpse of how many other losses each bootleg produces. Bad actions can come from the best of intentions. Barbara ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:13:01 EST From: FolkDude@aol.com Subject: Re: Bootlegging?! cycle12345@email.msn.com writes: > Finally, to Otto; I greatly appreciate what public radio does for us > and would gladly send a donation to WDIY if you will publish the > necessary information on this list. In that way, others may also > want to follow suit out of appreciation for JG and other such artists > who are brought to our attention via family, friends, radio stations > and "bootleg" music!!! You can help support public radio (and get a wonderful compilation CD) buy purchasing a copy of "Studio Sessions Vol. 1" from WDIY. The complete track list is as follows: ANN RABSON - Hallelujah, I Just Love Him So DON ROSS - Klimbim JOHN GORKA - Cypress Trees SUSAN WERNER - Montgomery Street LUCY KAPLANSKY - Ten Year Night THE NIELDS - Easy People BOB MALONE - You Think I'd Be Over This By Now THE KENNEDYS - The Coo Coo ELLIS PAUL - Conversation With a Ghost REV. BILLY C. WIRTZ - Cousin Cupcake's Got the Blues EDDIE FROM OHIO - The New James Bond DAVID GRISMAN & ENRIQUE CORIA - Pigeon Roost HURRY DOWN SUNSHINE - Judgement Day Blues ROY BOOK BINDER - New Age Woman Blues AL PETTEWAY & AMY WHITE - New Moon JACK WILLIAMS - That's All These are NOT the "album versions" of these songs; every track was recorded in the WDIY studio. These are intimate performances by some of today's finest acoustic musicians. The disc is available by mail order directly from WDIY. To order your copy of "Studio Sessions Volume 1," send a check payable to WDIY-FM for $16.50 ($15.00 plus $1.50 shipping) to: WDIY-FM - CD Sale 301 Broadway Bethlehem, PA 18015 USA Thanks for listening! Otto =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= OTTO BOST Producer/Host of "Acoustic Eclectic" FolkDude@aol.com Mondays 7-9 PM Quakertown, PA USA 88.1 & 93.9 WDIY-FM, Allentown =-=-=< http://members.aol.com/folkdude/acouecle.html >=-=-= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:23:02 -0500 From: "cycle12345" Subject: Re: Bootlegging?! Thanks, Otto; my check will be in the mail tomorrow morning! Steve > cycle12345@email.msn.com writes: > > > Finally, to Otto; I greatly appreciate what public radio does for us > > and would gladly send a donation to WDIY if you will publish the > > necessary information on this list. In that way, others may also > > want to follow suit out of appreciation for JG and other such artists > > who are brought to our attention via family, friends, radio stations > > and "bootleg" music!!! > > You can help support public radio (and get a wonderful compilation > CD) buy purchasing a copy of "Studio Sessions Vol. 1" from WDIY. > The complete track list is as follows: > > ANN RABSON - Hallelujah, I Just Love Him So > DON ROSS - Klimbim > JOHN GORKA - Cypress Trees > SUSAN WERNER - Montgomery Street > LUCY KAPLANSKY - Ten Year Night > THE NIELDS - Easy People > BOB MALONE - You Think I'd Be Over This By Now > THE KENNEDYS - The Coo Coo > ELLIS PAUL - Conversation With a Ghost > REV. BILLY C. WIRTZ - Cousin Cupcake's Got the Blues > EDDIE FROM OHIO - The New James Bond > DAVID GRISMAN & ENRIQUE CORIA - Pigeon Roost > HURRY DOWN SUNSHINE - Judgement Day Blues > ROY BOOK BINDER - New Age Woman Blues > AL PETTEWAY & AMY WHITE - New Moon > JACK WILLIAMS - That's All > > These are NOT the "album versions" of these songs; every track > was recorded in the WDIY studio. These are intimate performances > by some of today's finest acoustic musicians. The disc is > available by mail order directly from WDIY. > > To order your copy of "Studio Sessions Volume 1," send a check > payable to WDIY-FM for $16.50 ($15.00 plus $1.50 shipping) to: > > WDIY-FM - CD Sale > 301 Broadway > Bethlehem, PA 18015 USA > > Thanks for listening! > Otto > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > OTTO BOST Producer/Host of "Acoustic Eclectic" > FolkDude@aol.com Mondays 7-9 PM > Quakertown, PA USA 88.1 & 93.9 WDIY-FM, Allentown > =-=-=< http://members.aol.com/folkdude/acouecle.html >=-=-= ------------------------------ End of good-noise-digest V4 #12 *******************************