From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V19 #8 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, January 30 2011 Volume 19 : Number 008 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: WTF? [2fs ] Re: WTF? [Michael Sweeney ] Re: WTF? [Christopher Gross ] Re: WTF? [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: fegmaniax-digest V19 #7 [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: fegmaniax-digest V19 #7 [Rex Broome ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V19 #7 [Rex Broome ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V19 #7 [Rex Broome ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V19 #7 [2fs ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V19 #7 [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 21:48:48 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: WTF? On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Rex Broome wrote: > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:51 PM, wrote: > > > BTW, don't think I've ever mentioned thishere before, but some of you > > might get ba kick or laugh out of the fact that one of NZ's most famous > > academics and historians was Sir Peter Buck. > > > > And was he famous for his numerous and acrimonious dismissals of the works > of Sir Thomas Clark? > "Firkest thou, Sir Thomas Clark!" - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.wordpress.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 06:30:18 +0000 From: Michael Sweeney Subject: Re: WTF? Rex Broome wrote: >On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:51 PM, wrote: > >> BTW, don't think I've ever mentioned thishere before, but some of you >> might get ba kick or laugh out of the fact that one of NZ's most famous >> academics and historians was Sir Peter Buck. > >And was he famous for his numerous and acrimonious dismissals of the works of Sir Thomas Clark? ...and, if I recall correctly - from a book on franchising I wrote back in '87 - - one of the founders of the Subway Sandwich Shop chain (just the money guy, I think) was a Dr. Peter Buck. (Trivia - his medical profession was a reason that - at least for a long while; perhaps not anymore - the Subway franchising operations went under the legal name of "Doctors Associates" or something like that...) Michael "Careening brain STILL too filled with nearly-worthless 'facts'" Sweeney ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:06:18 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: WTF? On Sat, 29 Jan 2011, Michael Sweeney wrote: > Michael "Careening brain STILL too filled with nearly-worthless 'facts'" > Sweeney Hey, now, some of my favorite facts are worthless. - --Chris "'sincere' comes from the Latin for 'without wax'" the Christer ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 07:20:54 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: WTF? >On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:51 PM, ><grutness@slingshot.co.nz> wrote: > >BTW, don't think I've ever mentioned thishere before, but some of >you might get ba kick or laugh out of the fact that one of NZ's most >famous academics and historians was Sir Peter Buck. > > >And was he famous for his numerous and acrimonious dismissals of the >works of Sir Thomas Clark? almost certainly! James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 07:21:52 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V19 #7 >This sort of thing has long history in folk and blues music. And one >example recent is the Old 97's song "Champaign, Illinois" which uses >the tune of Dylan's "Desolation Row" and was approved by Bob himself. >You can hear the song here: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uVDoYdYS8w > >Any other modern examples of this phenomenon? Have a listen to Billy Bragg's song "Ideology" sometime. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:03:12 -0800 From: Rex Broome Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V19 #7 On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:21 AM, wrote: > >> Any other modern examples of this phenomenon? >> > > Have a listen to Billy Bragg's song "Ideology" sometime. > True, but that one *is* a lot closer to the "folk idiom", at least in practice (as Jeff noted, it's not really "folk music" in the purest sense, but it's certainly part of that continuum). And there really is hardly any such thing as an "obscure" Dylan song... at least on the level of "Flesh Number One", which although it's probably on one of Robyn's best selling records is actually completely out of print and has been for probably 15 years or so. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:02:37 -0800 From: Rex Broome Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V19 #7 On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:21 AM, wrote: > >> Any other modern examples of this phenomenon? >> > > Have a listen to Billy Bragg's song "Ideology" sometime. > True, but that one *is* a lot closer to the "folk idiom", at least in practice (as Jeff noted, it's not really "folk music" in the purest sense, but it's certainly part of that continuum). And there really is hardly any such thing as an "obscure" Dylan song... at least on the level of "Flesh Number One", which although it's probably on one of Robyn's best selling records is actually completely out of print and has been for probably 15 years or so. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:02:37 -0800 From: Rex Broome Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V19 #7 On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:21 AM, wrote: > >> Any other modern examples of this phenomenon? >> > > Have a listen to Billy Bragg's song "Ideology" sometime. > True, but that one *is* a lot closer to the "folk idiom", at least in practice (as Jeff noted, it's not really "folk music" in the purest sense, but it's certainly part of that continuum). And there really is hardly any such thing as an "obscure" Dylan song... at least on the level of "Flesh Number One", which although it's probably on one of Robyn's best selling records is actually completely out of print and has been for probably 15 years or so. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 15:17:39 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V19 #7 On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Rex Broome wrote: > On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:21 AM, wrote: > > > > >> Any other modern examples of this phenomenon? > >> > > > > Have a listen to Billy Bragg's song "Ideology" sometime. > > > > True, but that one *is* a lot closer to the "folk idiom", at least in > practice (as Jeff noted, it's not really "folk music" in the purest sense, > but it's certainly part of that continuum). And there really is hardly any > such thing as an "obscure" Dylan song... Part of the whole point of such folk borrowing is that the listener *recognizes* the source. (That can be true with hipster quotations, too...so-and-so tosses in a Pavement lick, etc.) But (a) as Rex notes, the Robyn song is nowadays obscure enough that likely almost none of Buddy's audience would recognize it, and (b) it's not a glancing quote or an allusion but 3/4 of the musical material of the entire song. As I said: it uses the main riff, its chord sequence or one closely altered, much of its melodic material, and even a lyrical snippet (Robyn's repeated "There's a..." shows up in Buddy's song too). Probably there's more, but I don't remember it, and I don't feel like listening to the Buddy track again. Oh: "Amazing Grace" and "Auld Lang Syne" are pretty much the same song, melodically and harmonically, minus the melodic squiggles to accommodate ALS's extra syllables, and the songs' meters. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.wordpress.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 22:32:48 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V19 #7 >On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:21 AM, ><grutness@slingshot.co.nz> wrote: > > >Any other modern examples of this phenomenon? > > >Have a listen to Billy Bragg's song "Ideology" sometime. > > >True, but that one *is* a lot closer to the "folk idiom", at least >in practice (as Jeff noted, it's not really "folk music" in the >purest sense, but it's certainly part of that continuum). And there >really is hardly any such thing as an "obscure" Dylan song... at >least on the level of "Flesh Number One", which although it's >probably on one of Robyn's best selling records is actually >completely out of print and has been for probably 15 years or so. > >-Rex okaaay - well how about Eno's "Taking tiger Mountain" and the VU's "Lisa says"? I've got a list I keep called "Plagiarists we know and love" where I keep ntrack of some of the more obvious and less obvious or more "inferential"/"homage" ones. Here are some for your perusal: Clear and present: *Beck - Fuckin' with my head <---> Rolling Stones - The last time *The Enemy (UK) - Don't break the red tape <---> The Clash - London calling *Marilyn Manson - Rock is dead <---> David Bowie - Jean Genie *Shonen Knife - Riding on the rocket <---> The Who - Boris the spider Strong influence: *The Arcade Fire - Neighborhood 2 (Laika) <---> Talking Heads - Cities *Nic Armstrong - Down home girl <---> Donovan - Sunshine Superman *Babyshambles - I wish <---> The Clash - Jimmy Jazz *Bangles - Restless <---> Zombies - It's alright with me *Bob Geldof - A gospel song <---> Van Morrison - Northern muse (Solid ground) *Gomez - These three sins <---> Buffalo Springfield - Pay the price *Magick Heads - Mystery train <---> Triffids - Tarillup bridge *REM - Hope <---> Leonard Cohen - Suzanne *Rolling Stones - Memo from Turner <---> Bob Dylan - Stuck inside of Mobile *Sex Pistols - Submission <---> Kinks - All day and all of the night *Sneaky Feelings - Amnesia <---> Velvet Underground - Rock and Roll *Pete Townshend - White City fighting <---> Roy Harper - Hope *UK -Rendezvous 6:02 <---> Nick Drake - Way to blue *You am I - Baby clothes <---> David Bowie - Suffragette city *Warren Zevon - Carmelita <---> Bob Dylan - Desolation Row Channeling other groups: *Colder - Crazy love <---> channelling Joy Division *Primal Scream - Little death <---> channelling Barrett-era Pink Floyd James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V19 #8 ******************************