From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V17 #49 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, February 16 2009 Volume 17 : Number 049 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: BSG (because I have nothing to say about Rush) ["Brian Huddell" ] Re: Dollhouse [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: Dollhouse ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Is it better to be safe than sorry? [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: Robyn gives in and gets an iPod [Michael Sweeney ] Re: Dollhouse [2fs ] Re: Dollhouse [David Witzany ] An example of being behind the times [Jeremy Osner ] Vera Lynn autobio (0% RH) [Poem Lover ] I Believe in Miracles [Jeff Dwarf ] Oslo [Tom Clark ] Macca radio [Michael Sweeney ] Re: Oslo [Steve Schiavo ] Re: Oslo [FSThomas ] Re: Oslo [HwyCDRrev@aol.com] Re: Oslo [Sebastian Hagedorn ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 08:44:38 -0600 From: "Brian Huddell" Subject: RE: BSG (because I have nothing to say about Rush) > xo > > p.s. re: BSG "no exit": did anyone catch that so-feg-thread line that > our gal said in sick bay right towards the end of the show? i did half > of double-take (which, no lie, somehow my brain thinks is different > than a single take.) Yes! Djini totally got a shout-out! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 10:58:05 -0600 (CST) From: David Witzany Subject: Re: Dollhouse It wasn't bad. It had plenty of twists, not surprising since this is Joss we're talking about. He's inserted plenty of hooks to hang future plot twists on. And wow--who would've expected a main character to get killed off in the _first episode_? A world record, even for our boy. It wasn't a great episode, but Whedon's on record as figuring that it'll take at least seven shows for the foundation to set. For what it's worth, the overnight Nielsens say that one TV viewer in sixteen saw it; not surprisingly, that was only good enough for second-most viewed show in the timeslot, after "Supernanny" (???). There were actually 2 BSG connections, by the way--one actor got namechecked, plus the guy who plays Helo has a recurring role. P.S.--No featured players actually got knocked off. Just Jossin'. Grrr. Arrgh. Dave. David Witzany ...one of nature's witzany@uiuc.edu bounds checkers ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 18:34:36 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: Dollhouse - -- David Witzany is rumored to have mumbled on 15. Februar 2009 10:58:05 -0600 regarding Re: Dollhouse: > It wasn't bad. It had plenty of twists, not surprising since this is > Joss we're talking about. He's inserted plenty of hooks to hang future > plot twists on. And wow--who would've expected a main character to get > killed off in the _first episode_? A world record, even for our boy. It > wasn't a great episode, but Whedon's on record as figuring that it'll > take at least seven shows for the foundation to set. I agree. I get that some people just don't like this kind of show, I get that some people might've been mildly interested in the show and disappointed, what I *don't* get are people who self-describe as Whedon fans and then go on to say they turned off after 15 minutes and won't watch the show anymore. I mean, WTF? *None* of the previous Whedon shows had great pilots. Few shows do in general, I think. And when you know a show won't be primarily plot-based, it kinda stands to reason that you need a few episodes to find out if you're interested in the character *development*, doesn't it? So, I really have no idea how much I'm going to like Dollhouse as a series, but the people who have written off the series after one epsiode - or even just part of one - need to be put out of their misery ... - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Am alten Stellwerk 22, 50733 Kvln, Germany http://www.uni-koeln.de/~a0620/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 12:48:39 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Dollhouse David Witzany wrote: > > Whedon's on record as figuring that it'll take at least seven shows > for the foundation to set. That translates as 1 1/6 UK seasons, so either it's a testament to the relative tenacity of the American viewer, or some very sloppy writing. Stewart (who should really be out on the Batavus today) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 09:58:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Is it better to be safe than sorry? Nectar At Any Cost! wrote: > by the way, heard newman's take on "Take On Me"? i've always had a > bit of a soft spot for that song; but don't much care for carl's > execution. oh, well. Yeah, turning an uptempo pop song into a moody ballad is one of those things that really never works, he said anticipating the avalanche of exceptions forthcoming. "I love how (coffee) makes me feel. It's like my heart is trying to hug my brain!" -- Kenneth Parcell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:00:58 +0000 From: Michael Sweeney Subject: Re: Robyn gives in and gets an iPod Miles wrote: >[re: my dislike of Bowie's ver. of "China Girl"] Is it just the fact that you heard Bowie's a lot on the radio? ...Nah, not really. A) Not that big of a fan of the song to begin with, B) Even with A in mind, thought the DB ver. was particularly extra light (of a darkish song), and C) OK, MAYBE the fact that back in '83 or so they played the crap outta it (although, even if I - somehow - hadn't heard it in 20 yrs, I STILL would have no desire to sit through it again)... But, as fer making the Igster some bucks, sure -- I'm on the positive side of that... Michael "Also really disliked the other single off that Bowie LP - 'Let's Dance'? Uh, no thank you..." Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 20:34:33 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: Dollhouse - -- "Stewart C. Russell" is rumored to have mumbled on 15. Februar 2009 12:48:39 -0500 regarding Re: Dollhouse: >> Whedon's on record as figuring that it'll take at least seven shows >> for the foundation to set. > > That translates as 1 1/6 UK seasons, so either it's a testament to the > relative tenacity of the American viewer, or some very sloppy writing. Hm, I think they are difficult to compare. I'm no expert on UK TV, but I *have* seen the original Life On Mars and The Office. Both those series were built aroung one strong idea that you can only milk for so long. It would probably be interesting to compare the orginials and the US remakes, but I've passed on both those remakes so far. I know that UK Life On Mars already got kind of tedious in the second season, because the idea had run its course and they apparently couldn't come up with something new. The Office *might* have gone on a tad longer than it did without running out of steam, but IMO not longer than one more (brief) season. I know that US office has already had way more episodes than its UK counterpart, but I'm not sure how they pulled that off. If anyfeg knows both, please enlighten us ... In contrast, the Jos Whedon series (I tried to write about US TV in general, but couldn't make a compelling argument) aren't such one-trick-ponies. They aren't just about *one* thing, in many cases they're not even one genre (although right now Dollhouse seems to be locked into only one). The analogy isn't entirely correct, but it's trendy to call this kind of series a multi-volume novel, where each season is a volume and each episode a chapter. I don't know about you, but I've read quite a few books I eventually liked a lot that didn't grab me from the first page or chapter. I guess you could argue that's a flaw of those books, but then you'd limit yourself to a certain type of fiction, to put it in general terms. NB: of course the first chapters/episodes mustn't suck ass! Those books and series I mean left me lukewarm initially before they gained momentum and turned to being great. Unfortunately (from my POV) the US viewers/networks generally *don't* have the tenacity to give a series time to ripen. The obvious exception is HBO. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Am alten Stellwerk 22, 50733 Kvln, Germany http://www.uni-koeln.de/~a0620/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 14:44:09 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Dollhouse On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > -- "Stewart C. Russell" is rumored to have mumbled on 15. > Februar 2009 12:48:39 -0500 regarding Re: Dollhouse: > >>> Whedon's on record as figuring that it'll take at least seven shows >>> for the foundation to set. >> >> That translates as 1 1/6 UK seasons, so either it's a testament to the >> relative tenacity of the American viewer, or some very sloppy writing. > > Hm, I think they are difficult to compare. I'm no expert on UK TV, but I > *have* seen the original Life On Mars and The Office. Both those series were > built aroung one strong idea that you can only milk for so long. It would > probably be interesting to compare the orginials and the US remakes, but > I've passed on both those remakes so far. I know that UK Life On Mars > already got kind of tedious in the second season, because the idea had run > its course and they apparently couldn't come up with something new. The > Office *might* have gone on a tad longer than it did without running out of > steam, but IMO not longer than one more (brief) season. I know that US > office has already had way more episodes than its UK counterpart, but I'm > not sure how they pulled that off. If anyfeg knows both, please enlighten us > ... > > In contrast, the Jos Whedon series (I tried to write about US TV in general, > but couldn't make a compelling argument) aren't such one-trick-ponies. They > aren't just about *one* thing, in many cases they're not even one genre > (although right now Dollhouse seems to be locked into only one). The analogy > isn't entirely correct, but it's trendy to call this kind of series a > multi-volume novel, where each season is a volume and each episode a > chapter. I don't know about you, but I've read quite a few books I > eventually liked a lot that didn't grab me from the first page or chapter. I > guess you could argue that's a flaw of those books, but then you'd limit > yourself to a certain type of fiction, to put it in general terms. NB: of > course the first chapters/episodes mustn't suck ass! Those books and series > I mean left me lukewarm initially before they gained momentum and turned to > being great. I think Sebastian's analysis is pretty accurate. i don't know that much British TV - but his comparison to the British _Office_ seems apt enough. (BTW: the US _Office_ has been able to go on simply by expanding the roles of its characters, broadening the focus, and introducing new characters...I think the best US shows generally do end up being character-driven, even if the circumstance or plot is still a hook, because it's much easier for people to care about a character than about a circumstance or plot. This is why X-Files ultimately died - Carter & co. thought it was all about the "myth-arc" when fans just never warmed to I-can't-even-remember-their-names-anymore (the agents that carried on after Duchovny and Anderson left). George Lucas is another one who doesn't seem to get this: if anything makes the '70s Star Wars memorable, it's Han Solo's insouciance, Leia's verve, even Luke's dopiness giving way to the beginnings of wisdom - i.e, the characters and the energy given them by the actors.) Anyway, all that is to say that character-driven shows take longer to develop, particularly with a large cast: you need time as viewer to get to know the characters & their interrelationships, the actors/writers/etc. need time to work out the characters...and until that happens, the stories and any arc that joins them won't be as successful, because the stories also are partly determined by the characters: what would so-and-so do in Situation X has a lot to do w/who that character is, and poor character development means not only that Situation X develops implausibly but that we no longer believe in, ad no longer care about, the characters. I suppose you could argue that a lot of that stuff should be worked out beforehand...but here's the thing: Whedon in particular lets his characters be shaped in part by the actors' own strengths and weaknesses (perhaps one reason few of his actors seem to have done much memorable work beyond Whedon's characters), so unless there were months and months of rehearsals beforehand, that really can only happen during the initial season/series of the show. (Like any network's going to pay for *rehearsals*!) It's sorta like the classic Duke Ellington bands: Ellington wrote for his particular soloists, so you couldn't just shove any trumpet player in there and have it work as well. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.wordpress.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 15:27:32 -0600 (CST) From: David Witzany Subject: Re: Dollhouse You'd especially expect better from Whedon trufans, who would surely know that the premiere episode was done at the studio's insistence that things get started with more pizazz; the one he originally conceived as kicking things off is down the road a ways. With luck all will be right with the world by the time we get to that one. Actually, my Friday night was Whedon-riffic despite the just-OK Dollhouse episode. I finally sat down and watched "Dr. Horrible's Sing-along Blog". What a knock-out. Forget about Joss doing a serious BSG musical episode, think what a send-up he and his brothers could put together. - ---- Original message ---- First I went... Re: Dollhouse: > >> It wasn't bad. It had plenty of twists, not surprising since this is >> Joss we're talking about. He's inserted plenty of hooks to hang future >> plot twists on. It >> wasn't a great episode, but Whedon's on record as figuring that it'll >> take at least seven shows for the foundation to set. > ...and then Sebastian goes... >I agree. I get that some people just don't like this kind of show, I get >that some people might've been mildly interested in the show and >disappointed, what I *don't* get are people who self-describe as Whedon >fans and then go on to say they turned off after 15 minutes and won't watch >the show anymore. I mean, WTF? *None* of the previous Whedon shows had >great pilots. Few shows do in general, I think. And when you know a show >won't be primarily plot-based, it kinda stands to reason that you need a >few episodes to find out if you're interested in the character >*development*, doesn't it? > >So, I really have no idea how much I'm going to like Dollhouse as a series, >but the people who have written off the series after one epsiode - or even >just part of one - need to be put out of their misery ... >-- >Sebastian Hagedorn >Am alten Stellwerk 22, 50733 Kvln, Germany >http://www.uni-koeln.de/~a0620/ >"Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock Dave. David Witzany ...one of nature's witzany@uiuc.edu bounds checkers ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 18:39:08 -0500 From: Jeremy Osner Subject: An example of being behind the times This afternoon my wife and I saw "Waltz with Bashir" -- I for the second time, she for the first -- and I wanted to add my voice to Sebastian's recommendation back in December -- a movie after which to pick the little pieces of your consciousness up off cinema's carpet, taking care not to leave any for the usher's rough broom. I was a little weirded out though to notice that when Folman goes back to Tel Aviv on leave from the army, his friends are listening to "This is not a Love Song" -- wait, wasn't that a big hit in my first year of college, in 1987? I distinctly remember listening to it a lot that year, and not having heard it previously. Go to check on wiki when we get back, and indeed, it was a hit in 1983. So I was not as with it in freshman year as I thought myself. Oh well... J If we do not say all words, however absurd, we will never say the essential words. -- Josi Saramago http://www.readin.com/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 17:27:18 -0800 (PST) From: Poem Lover Subject: Vera Lynn autobio (0% RH) http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/feb/15/vera-lynn-memoirs ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 20:26:08 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: I Believe in Miracles http://www.glassgiant.com/miracles/ "I love how (coffee) makes me feel. It's like my heart is trying to hug my brain!" -- Kenneth Parcell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 20:52:51 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Oslo ok, so I accept the fact that I'm probably the biggest fanboy on the list, having raved about every release* that's come along during the last 18 years or so (keeeeerist...), but I gotta say Goodnight Oslo is stellar. It's exactly where I had hoped Robyn would be at this point in his career: Full band, honest songs, limited quirkiness, and bringing the sincerity when it's warranted. I'm initially drawn in by his lower register (it's where I like him) and from there the beats and melodies allow ample room to explore the lyrics. I can't complain about my mix since I added Yep Roc's "Bonus Disc" to my rip, but for the main release I would have dumped "TLC" or "Hurry For The Sky" and replaced it with "I Just Wanna Be Loved". There's so much more energy in that track. I can't wait for the tour stop in 'frisco (whenever that will be). I just hope "I'm Falling" is part of the set - that song is gonna fucking KILL live! - -tc *except "Eye" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 05:17:18 +0000 From: Michael Sweeney Subject: Macca radio Been listening to  and actually quite enjoying!  the Sirius McCartney / Fireman station (channel 33) this weekendreally liking how they are playing deep stuff from throughout his career, not just the hits. (And even really liking some of the new Fireman stuffwhich I had heard previously when Howard Stern had Macca on a few weeks back.) But, I just heard Hi, Hi, Hi and, so, was reminded of the simply best / worst line ever written by human historys most successful-ever musician: I want you to lie on the bed / Get you ready for my polygon Suddenly, in comparison, the lyrics to Silly Love Songs and Let Em In mightve been written by T.S. Eliot or Ezra Pound Michael Theyre (mercifully) yet to play Cook of the House (and I aint about to go dig up Speed of Sound right now) so its entirely possible that THAT is still worse Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:36:51 -0600 From: Steve Schiavo Subject: Re: Oslo On Feb 15, 2009, at 10:52 PM, Tom Clark wrote: > "Hurry For The Sky" Any Hat Act with enough moxy to cover this? - - Steve __________ I can't resist an anime that includes a small, cute, violence prone girl with a scythe. - John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:21:52 -0500 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: Oslo Tom Clark wrote: > ok, so I accept the fact that I'm probably the biggest fanboy on the > list, having raved about every release* that's come along during the > last 18 years or so (keeeeerist...), but I gotta say Goodnight Oslo is > stellar. It's exactly where I had hoped Robyn would be at this point > in his career: Crap. Maybe I've got to go back and listen to it again. After the first two spins I put /Oslo/ at the absolute bottom of the list. - -f. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:45:30 EST From: HwyCDRrev@aol.com Subject: Re: Oslo i love it too except for the drumming my blog is "Yer Blog" _http://fab4yerblog.blogspot.com/_ (http://fab4yerblog.blogspot.com/) _http://robotsarestealingmyluggage.blogspot.com/_ (http://robotsarestealingmyluggage.blogspot.com/) In a message dated 2/16/2009 9:28:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, fsthomas@ochremedia.com writes: Maybe I've got to go back and listen to it again. After the first two spins I put /Oslo/ at the absolute bottom of the list. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe bemailfooterNO62) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:23:19 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: Oslo - --On 16. Februar 2009 09:21:52 -0500 FSThomas wrote: > Tom Clark wrote: >> ok, so I accept the fact that I'm probably the biggest fanboy on the >> list, having raved about every release* that's come along during the >> last 18 years or so (keeeeerist...), but I gotta say Goodnight Oslo is >> stellar. It's exactly where I had hoped Robyn would be at this point >> in his career: > > Crap. > > Maybe I've got to go back and listen to it again. After the first two > spins I put /Oslo/ at the absolute bottom of the list. I just ordered it from play.com, so I will be able to weigh in on that in about a week or so. Once again there is no domestic release in Germany, only an overpriced import. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V17 #49 *******************************