From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V17 #35 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, February 8 2009 Volume 17 : Number 035 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail [michaeljbachman@comcast.net] Maybe I should use a bowl and save $15 [] Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail, listen up, Mr. Dwarf! [Michael ] Re: 3 Dog Night: WAS Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail, listen up, Mr. Dwarf! [Michael Sweeney ] Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail [michaeljbachman@comcast.net] Robyn Tickets on sale for Paradise Boston NOW [HwyCDRrev@aol.com] Re: 3 Dog Night: WAS Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail, listen up, Mr.... [HwyCDRre] Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail, listen up, Mr. Dwarf! [michaelj] Re: I Like Ike, I mean Rush [Rex ] Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail [Rex ] Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail, listen up, Mr. Dwarf! [Rex ] Re: T-Shirt Of The Moment [James Dignan ] reap [James Dignan ] Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail [James Dignan ] Rachel Getting Married [Jill Brand ] Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail ["Stewart C. Russell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 15:36:26 +0000 (UTC) From: michaeljbachman@comcast.net Subject: Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Clark" To: "fegmaniax" Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2009 10:48:25 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail >Growing up in the northeast U.S. I was aware of Aerosmith from an B >early age, but I wonder if they were a regional thing before going B >national. B And isn't Seger like the patron saint of the upper midwest? >Either way, I think most people love Rush because they are from B >Canada, and everybody loves Canadians. Seger was reduced to playing high school gyms in the early 70's. H owever the 1974 albumB Beautiful Loser and 1975 Live album changed his fortunes dramatically. I'm probably not the only one who thought he sold out when he started palling around with the EaglesB around 1980. Kathleen Edwards is my favorite 20 something Canadian after seeing her in concert this past Wednesday. She is Chicago this weekend and closes out her tour at Joe's Pub in NYC next week. I'll give Rush the thumbs up for a long career and huge sales for some very good albums, but they have never released anything as great as Yes's "Close To The Edge" or had the talent of that short lived Squire/Bruford/Howe/Anderson/Wakeman line-up as far as I'm concerned. Too bad it only last for a couple of albums. That Squire/Bruford rythym section is one of my all time favorites. Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 10:37:18 -0500 From: Subject: Maybe I should use a bowl and save $15 Sitting now at the local chain barber shop. I was reading the recent debate re: AC/DC, Rush, Journey, etc. I like Rush, but feel another's pain when noise like Journey is released. Then it happened. The radio station went right into Loverboy's "Turn Me Loose". Oh, the pain, the pain... - -Ed - ---------------- Sincerely I remain, Arthur Kane This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:13:58 +0000 From: Michael Sweeney Subject: Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail, listen up, Mr. Dwarf! Rex wrote: >to a lot of us, Rush's music really does sound so bad and silly that we can't imagine what anyone would see in it ...No offense at all intended to the Feggie Rush fans out here (even beyond Quail -- one of the other Mikes, most notably, IIRC?), but several times, I have actually remarked to my GF and other friends that -- wonder of wonders; example of the wide range of taste differences -- I almost cannot believe that there are dedicated-enough-to-participate-in-an-online-list fans of RH who are ALSO passionate Rush fans... Michael "Then again, I also (non-passionately) like the Smashing P's...and I suppose there might be more than a few out here (even beyond the deep Peter Green / Jeremy Spencer / Danny Kirwan fans) who find Lindsey Buckingham a bit twee for their tastes..." Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_02200 9 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:38:50 +0000 From: Michael Sweeney Subject: Re: 3 Dog Night: WAS Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail, listen up, Mr. Dwarf! HwyCDRrev@aol.com wrote: >chuck negron lost everything while he was on drugs ...Did anyone else see the episode of "Intervention" from (I wanna say...) about 3 seasons ago (I love that car-crash show!) where the focus subject was one of Negron's sons...and Chuck was (quite subtly) involved in the show and the eventual intervention? They only made tossed-off mentions of Dad's former rock-star status (may have only mentioned "3 Dog Night" once -- if at all), but DID talk about his since-healed drug use when the kid was growing up... Fascinating, captain... Michael "Admittedly, used to somewhat confuse 3DN with Grand Funk Railroad when I was about 10 during both of their peaks..." Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Faster_022009 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 08:58:35 -0800 (PST) From: "C. Huff" Subject: I Like Ike, I mean Rush >But another key factor is: Rush fans. They really embarrass themselves with their gushing, and they do a lot of preaching to people who (as they should know) are unlikely to be converted.< I have always liked Rush, and I have never tried to convince anyone of anything concerning them. In fact, being a Feg first (and a Feg last), I have pretty much kept my little Rush fetish private since high school. Now it's all out. lol I enjoy them. It's silly and pompous and they play the same thing everytime, but I think it's fun. Beats Coldplay! Eugh...can't stand those guys...LOL let the debate begin. >Good rebuttal points (re: apples / oranges positions) from (IIRC) Jeff Dwarf.... < Yes, Mr. Dwarf, excellent debating points. LOL The funny part is that I'm not sure if the other player was Sandberg. Someone stole my copy of the book years ago. I also don't feel like an infielder vs. an outfielder has anything to do with the HoF - you should be inducted based on your play on the field, not because you are a great second baseman and we expect less of 2B - "sorry we've got too many outfielders - bye bye". Dale Murphy should be in the HoF, though. going to go listen to Temples of Syrinx and put on my ceremonial bathrobe and headgear :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 17:04:46 +0000 (UTC) From: michaeljbachman@comcast.net Subject: Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail - ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. Huff" To: "jeffreyw2fs j" Cc: spottedeagleray@gmail.com, fegmaniax@smoe.org Sent: Friday, February 6, 2009 2:19:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail >Interesting that Jeff and Rex brings up the sports analogy re: RnR Hall. B Short anecdote: B Don Zimmer in his autobiography >sits down with Joe Torre and discusses the merits of Ryne Sandberg vs Dale Murphy for the Baseball Hall. B On every stat >compared, Dale Murphy beats Sandberg hands down. B Yet Sandberg was a 1st ballot HoFer and Murphy has yet to make it. B >Zim: B "It was then I knew the Hall of Fame was bullshit, a popularity contest having nothing to do with how well you played the >game."B B Even worse then that is Ozzie Smith as a 1st ballot HoFer and Alan Trammell still waiting. Smith had a tad more range at shortstop and a few more gold gloves, but Trammell was a much bettter hitter with a lot more pop in his bat, 5 times more home runs and a ton more RBI's. Neither one of them had 2500 hits, but Trammell would have been close to the magic 3000 number if he hadn't been so injury prone in his 30's. Trammell got robbedB ofB the 1987 AL MVP award by Georg Bell.B IB bet most general managers in 1980 would pick Trammell over Smith hands down as far a building aB infield around for a 10 year run. Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:07:17 EST From: HwyCDRrev@aol.com Subject: Robyn Tickets on sale for Paradise Boston NOW $20 tickets $ 9 extra charge my blog is "Yer Blog" http://fab4yerblog.blogspot.com/ http://robotsarestealingmyluggage.blogspot.com/ **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://ad.doubleclick. net/clk;211531132;33070124;e) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:11:01 EST From: HwyCDRrev@aol.com Subject: Re: 3 Dog Night: WAS Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail, listen up, Mr.... i wanted to see 3DN at the nassau coliseum (c. 1974 ?) because T.Rex was the opening act but i was too young to make that happen my blog is "Yer Blog" http://fab4yerblog.blogspot.com/ http://robotsarestealingmyluggage.blogspot.com/ In a message dated 2/7/2009 11:53:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, m_l_sweeney@hotmail.com writes: "3 Dog Night **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://ad.doubleclick. net/clk;211531132;33070124;e) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 17:51:42 +0000 (UTC) From: michaeljbachman@comcast.net Subject: Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail, listen up, Mr. Dwarf! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "2fs" To: "Pigworkers Local 47" Sent: Friday, February 6, 2009 3:52:51 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail, listen up, Mr. Dwarf! On 2/6/09, kevin studyvin wrote: > > > who ever says that the Who shouldn't be in the HOF because Moon didn't > know when to > > stop playing? (Note that in their own ways, both Townshend and Entwistle > could be pretty busy players too...check out the bass to "The Real Me" > frinstnace...) > > > > > I'd submit that any busy-ness on the part of Entwhistle or Townshend would > mostly be a matter of them frantically trying to keep up with Moon, who > regardless of his status as one of the greatest drummers ever to draw breath > basically had an inverse relation between focus and enthusiasm, God > bless'im. B Jeff wrote: >Oh, I do hope it was clear my comparison was strictly rhetorical - I >love the Who, and at their peak there was no one that could touch them >- particularly Moon and Daltrey. From, oh, '71 through '74 or Daltrey was *the* best hard-rock singer.** I disagree Jeff. The Allman Brothers Band ruled 1971 until Duane Allman died in October. It wasn't even close as Duane was the best guitar player on the planet for one year after Jimi died in September of 1970, much better then Towsnhend, and the Brothers were the premier live act of 1971. I'll give The Who the edge for the rest of your '72 through '74 time period though.B Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:34:41 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: I Like Ike, I mean Rush On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 8:58 AM, C. Huff wrote: > > I have always liked Rush, and I have never tried to convince anyone of > anything concerning them. In fact, being a Feg first (and a Feg last), I > have pretty much kept my little Rush fetish private since high school. Now > it's all out. lol I enjoy them. It's silly and pompous and they play the > same thing everytime, but I think it's fun. Beats Coldplay! Eugh...can't > stand those guys...LOL let the debate begin. > Coldplay... well, they mildly annoy me from afar, and they are the latest in a string of "Of all the bands in the world, THESE guys became huge?" enigmas for me, probably dating back to Smashing Pumpkins (this is certainly a "you kids get off my lawn" moment for me). But I never had, and never will have, a college roommate who was in love with Coldplay, and I did have one who was in love with Rush, so Coldplay is less of a problem for me, through no real fault of either band. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:40:50 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 7:36 AM, wrote: > > Kathleen Edwards is my favorite 20 something Canadian after seeing her in > concert this past Wednesday. She is Chicago this weekend and closes out her > tour at Joe's Pub in NYC next week. She's a slightly guilty pleasure of mine; I had her first album for a while and like it okay, but when I moved into my own apartment after my marriage split up, I started playing it nearly nonstop. I'm not sure it was really that good, but it was just what I needed, for whatever reason-- that and a Glossary record and The Real New Fall LP, actually, and then a period of nothing but Hank Williams, pneumonia, and "Voices Carry" on repeat. Good times. I also liked KE's second album pretty well. I guess she has a new one out? Top 20 Canadian Artists? Damn, there are so many great ones. That would be tough. - -Rex > > > > > I'll give Rush the thumbs up for a long career and huge sales for some very > good albums, but they have never released anything as great as Yes's "Close > To > The Edge" or had the talent of that short lived > Squire/Bruford/Howe/Anderson/Wakeman line-up as far as I'm concerned. Too > bad > it only last for a couple of albums. That Squire/Bruford rythym section is > one > of my all time favorites. > > > > Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:47:41 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail, listen up, Mr. Dwarf! On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Michael Sweeney wrote: > > ...No offense at all intended to the Feggie Rush fans out here (even beyond > Quail -- one of the other Mikes, most notably, IIRC?), but several times, I > have actually remarked to my GF and other friends that -- wonder of > wonders; > example of the wide range of taste differences -- I almost cannot believe > that > there are dedicated-enough-to-participate-in-an-online-list fans of RH who > are > ALSO passionate Rush fans... > I know, but it's sort of inspirational. My Rush-head college roommate was also deeply into Neil Young, which had a similar cognitive dissonance to it. I don't think there are really that as many people with monochromatic genre tastes in music as conventional wisdom would have it... but I guess in a way I'm kind of one of them. There are some oddball dichotomies in my listening preferences, but most of them flow organically from one to the other, if you look at the whole picture. (But that may be true of everybody's... it's just hard to see the connections unless you inhabit the mind where they're made.) - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 15:41:40 CST From: "Chris Huff" Subject: Re: I Like Ike, I mean Rush Though it may come out years from now that Rush paid college roommates to spread the gospel :) Coldplay freely admits their mediocrity. Usually this makes me like a band more, but in their case for some reason it makes me sad at the "state of things". Need to get G'night Oslo, note to self. - -----Original Message----- Date: Saturday, February 07, 2009 3:34:42 pm To: "C. Huff" Cc: fegmaniax@smoe.org From: "Rex" Subject: Re: I Like Ike, I mean Rush On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 8:58 AM, C. Huff wrote: > > I have always liked Rush, and I have never tried to convince anyone of > anything concerning them. In fact, being a Feg first (and a Feg last), I > have pretty much kept my little Rush fetish private since high school. Now > it's all out. lol I enjoy them. It's silly and pompous and they play the > same thing everytime, but I think it's fun. Beats Coldplay! Eugh...can't > stand those guys...LOL let the debate begin. > Coldplay... well, they mildly annoy me from afar, and they are the latest in a string of "Of all the bands in the world, THESE guys became huge?" enigmas for me, probably dating back to Smashing Pumpkins (this is certainly a "you kids get off my lawn" moment for me). But I never had, and never will have, a college roommate who was in love with Coldplay, and I did have one who was in love with Rush, so Coldplay is less of a problem for me, through no real fault of either band. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 11:31:46 +1300 From: James Dignan Subject: Re: T-Shirt Of The Moment > > Bonus: the shirt expresses truth so long as the wearer's hands >are both visible! > > > > Barring tricky widgets manipulable by moving hips, legs, etc., of course. > > > >Anyone else just think that the wearer has some boundary problems >with their Ex's? I'm waiting for the one for people who used to be Los Angeles International Airport. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 11:37:19 +1300 From: James Dignan Subject: reap James Whitmore James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 11:36:48 +1300 From: James Dignan Subject: Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail >I feel so left out of this debate. I've never to my conscious knowledge >even heard those guys, except maybe on the Kids In the Hall show once. >What's their deal, anyway? I feel the same way. Of my "real-world music afficiaanado" friends, only one has ever enven mentioned Rush to me, and he called them "a great band that no-one else seems to have heard of". I also note few Brits involved in this discussion. I'm beginning to think this is a North America-only phenomenon. > > I believe my argument involved Steve Tyler's mouth, more than any > > suckiness > > on part of their musicianship. > > >I wonder if the guy who does ONE PIECE is an Arrowsmith fan. I will say one thing in favour of Steve Tyler, that makes up for a lot of Hairysmif's noise: without him, we wouldn't have had Liv. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 11:25:47 +1300 From: James Dignan Subject: The orrible oo (was Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail, listen up, Mr. Dwarf!) > > who ever says that the Who shouldn't be in the HOF because Moon didn't know > > when to > > stop playing? (Note that in their own ways, both Townshend and Entwistle > > could be pretty busy players too...check out the bass to "The Real Me" > > frinstnace...) > > > >I'd submit that any busy-ness on the part of Entwhistle or Townshend would >mostly be a matter of them frantically trying to keep up with Moon, who >regardless of his status as one of the greatest drummers ever to draw >breath basically had an inverse relation between focus and enthusiasm, God >bless'im. Oh, I don't know - The Ox was quite a fast'n'furious player. He just did it with such aplomb that it hardly looked like he'd woken up a lot of the time. Have a listen to something like the fadeout of "Dreaming from the waist" and concentrate on what he's doing. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 20:43:15 -0600 (CST) From: David Witzany Subject: Rush Geeks Given Rush's status as a purveyor of Geek Rock, the tactics of some of their fans isn't hard to believe. Anyone who has had the privilege of associating with people who work with computers or in the sciences probably knows plenty of folks who become seriously overly-enthused when discussing their interests. (Which of us hasn't pinned a stranger in a corner for half an hour to tell them about the greatness which is Robyn Hitchcock? I know I have...) Hopefully their fanaticism doesn't stop folks from making up their own minds, but I can see how it might be hard to remain impartial. For the record, I've never minded anything I've heard by Rush, but I've never been tempted to buy anything of theirs. As opposed to the Grateful Dead, another band that's been talked about here in the past couple of days--I suppose I've proselytized for them a bit over the years. (I'm broadcasting the Grateful Dead Hour as we speak, with an hour of live Pink Floyd coming up at the top of the ! ho! ur; streaming at weft.org. End shameless plug.) - ---- Original message ---- >Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 10:43:59 -0800 >From: Rex >Subject: Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail, listen up, Mr. Dwarf! > >With regards to rampant Rush-hate, I don't defend it, but it's easy to >understand, and you can chalk it up to a couple of things. One is simply >that, to a lot of us, Rush's music really does sound so bad and silly that >we can't imagine what anyone would see in it. You may not like that, but >you've already acknowledged that it's a widepread prejudice. Even some of >my prog-friendly associates are embarrassed by Rush... they try to explain >it away, but they'd really rather change the subject. > >But another key factor is: Rush fans. They really embarrass themselves with >their gushing, and they do a lot of preaching to people who (as they should >know) are unlikely to be converted. They also tend to try to use oddly >empirical, point-by-point, near-mathematical tretises to "prove" their >point, and that method just relates in almost no way whatsoever with the way >most of us discover, enjoy, and experience music (see that great scene near >the end of "SLC Punk"). Frankly, it grates on us. > >Socially normal music conversations tend to gravitate towards the common >ground of the participants. You're probably not going to talk to >your hip-hop friends about Robyn, and I'm not going to try to get a >bluegrass fan to give the Slits a try-- it seems like (A) a waste of time, >and (B) a way to lose friends by being annoying. Even Deadheads don't do >that. Rush fans are infamously evangelistic, and that has its price. Truth >is, most of us don't really even think about Rush except when someone gets, >like, "all up in our grill" about them. > >nb. I haven't said anything negative about Rush themselves in this thread, >nor will I. Too much flint for the potential fire, you know. > >- -Rex Dave. David Witzany ...one of nature's witzany@uiuc.edu bounds checkers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 22:35:28 -0500 (EST) From: Jill Brand Subject: Rachel Getting Married We just got back from seeing Rachel Getting Married. I thought it was very good, but some of it hit a little too close to home, so I was really glad I had grabbed a wad of toilet paper from the bathroom before the movie started. Good anticipatory move on my part. So Robyn will be at the Paradise in Boston on April 13th (why is it that my heroes always have to show up finals week!). This time I'm not missing him. I'm so excited because it is NOT TT's, so I'll actually be able to see. Anyone else going? I'm seeing of Montreal (what else is new) twice at the Paradise the following week. This is the place that I first saw Robyn in 1986 or 1987 (or 1985? maybe that was too early for a concert). Jill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 09:58:09 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: A Few Words on Rush by Brother Quail James Dignan wrote: > > I also note few Brits > involved in this discussion. I'm beginning to think this is a North > America-only phenomenon. Well, it doesn't do to be too enthusiastic about things. If Rush wrote more songs about sheds, I'm sure they'd have a bigger UK following. Stewart (hope the knee's better, James!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 11:04:01 -0600 From: michael wells Subject: Robyn in Chicago Huh, that's what I get for going to Europe for a few weeks. I get back, and there's a concert on the books. April 18th at Epiphany? I am so there. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V17 #35 *******************************