From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #738 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, October 8 2008 Volume 16 : Number 738 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: David Foster Wallace mention in CCR Review [2fs ] Threadmerge: "Helicopter" Ben vs. *Apocalypse Now* ["Nectar At Any Cost!"] Re: A couple of things about Eye ["C. Huff" ] RE: Too much Robyn? Unpossible! ["C. Huff" ] Re: A couple of things about Eye ["Jeremy Osner" ] RE: The EYE debate ["C. Huff" ] Re: A couple of things about Eye ["C. Huff" ] Re: A couple of things about Eye [2fs ] Re: A couple of things about Eye ["Jeremy Osner" ] communication breakdown [Jill Brand ] Master Debaters [FSThomas ] Miles on BSDR (I know - I keep changing thread names...) [Michael Sweeney] Re: Miles on BSDR (I know - I keep changing thread names...) ["Miles Goos] Re: The EYE debate ["(0% rh)" ] Re: David Foster Wallace mention in CCR Review ["Miles Goosens" ] Re: The EYE debate ["Miles Goosens" ] Re: Master Debaters [2fs ] Re: Watch out all you space cats [Rex ] Re: A couple of things about Eye [Rex ] Re: David Foster Wallace mention in CCR Review [Rex ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 19:30:44 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: David Foster Wallace mention in CCR Review On 10/7/08, Miles Goosens wrote: > > > > The Minutemen also covered Credence, and more than once. > > However, I don't think d. Boon and Watt ever gave a damn about cred; after > all, they were just "fucking corn dogs, man" wearing flannel shirts when it > was wholly uncool to do so, and they played whatever they liked. And, > bless > 'em, they liked Credence, and Steely Dan, and Van Halen, and especially > BOC. Well, there you go: "not giving a damn about cred" is way cooler than the giving of damns - ipso fucto, more cred. This is, of course, the infamous "Jeff's Hipster Paradox," whereby since to be hip is to be "not like everybody else*," the most hip thing is actually the thing that the mainstream hates *and* hipsters hate...yet to be a hipster is to like things that are cool, so... * Kinks quotes are eternally cool. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 17:43:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "C. Huff" Subject: Re: A couple of things about Eye I don't think that's a leap of faith or a stretch at all...your take is very sound...certainly could be ? I think we've all met a few "Clean Steve"s in our time, both named Steve and not...there was one I knew who got with this incredibly hot girl that I wanted to get with..."making videos with the man next door's best friend" lol the lyrics are ridiculously great....thank Gawd RH has no internal censors and he just lets this stuff pour out.... - ----- Original Message ---- From: 2fs To: C. Huff Cc: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 11:36:19 PM Subject: Re: A couple of things about Eye On 10/6/08, C. Huff wrote: The Eye tour was really great, too - he did all sorts of great little chestnuts...I feel like Eye is like the sister record of I Often Dream of Trains, springtime to its fall...same college roommate who stole shirts commented at the time that Clean Steve was "the best Bob Dylan song since 1975".... singer/guitarist had tremendous pressure to be like Elvis Costello The juxtaposition of these two reminds me of this odd idea I conceived once that "Clean Steve" is actually about the Attractions with a few names changed to protect the innocent - I mean, there's a Steve and a Bruce and a Nick Lowe cassette, so... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 17:46:06 -0700 From: "Nectar At Any Cost!" Subject: Threadmerge: "Helicopter" Ben vs. *Apocalypse Now* excellent and cool (er, assuming it's *not* a delusion). but, slow though i may be, i thoroughly enjoy the activity. ...just wished there were more hours in the day. either that's the typo of the year, or you're one *serious* motherfucking fanatic. i'll second, and add: by a country mile. would "Pit Of Souls" count? speaking of feg DJs (and nice job on the retrospective, jonesie! -- although you neglected to give the source for "Astronomy"): what was the first song y'all ever played on the air? if ever i were to free up enough time to be able to take to the airwaves, i think i'd have to go with "Lick My Doberman's Dick". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 17:39:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "C. Huff" Subject: Re: A couple of things about Eye this is very cool - thanks! Perspex Island is one I don't listen to very much at all...but the tour I remember (w/Matthew Sweet opening) as being brilliant...the production of that record is very dated (as with many from that time period) - but somewhere I still have a VHS tape of RH and Egypts on Arsenio Hall doing Ultra Unbelievable Love... lol what I mean to say I've always been somewhat ambivalent about the disc b/c I thought it was much better live... - ----- Original Message ---- From: Jeremy Osner To: C. Huff Cc: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 11:43:21 PM Subject: Re: A couple of things about Eye Here is the review I'm thinking of: http://quietriverpress.com/streview.htm On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:40 PM, Jeremy Osner wrote: > On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:24 PM, C. Huff wrote: >> It also must be funny for RH to think of Eye now since that >> album was so completely wrapped up in Cynthia... > > I have had that same thought about Perspex Island -- the interviews > I've read with Robyn from the time of it's release, he's talking about > (or the interviewer is talking about, or I am reading in) how he's > found happiness and fulfillment with C, and the record is certainly > very much about love and happiness and fulfillment. > > > -- > If we do not say all words, however absurd, we will never say the > essential words. -- Jose Saramgo > http://www.readin.com/blog/ > - -- If we do not say all words, however absurd, we will never say the essential words. -- Jose Saramgo http://www.readin.com/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 17:47:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "C. Huff" Subject: RE: Too much Robyn? Unpossible! At least he says "I adore Robyn Hitchcock" lol the fellow can't be all bad...;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 20:56:30 -0400 From: "Jeremy Osner" Subject: Re: A couple of things about Eye On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:39 PM, C. Huff wrote: > ...the production of > that record is very dated See I've heard this sentiment expressed. And also that it was "over-produced". But I can't understand what it means. Could you help me out? My understanding of what "production" means, is that it's the way the sounds are put together onto the record -- "over-produced" I think would mean the sound is not raw enough, not close enough to the sound of the musicians performing; is this also what you're getting at with "dated production"? If it is I guess it's true -- the live performances that I've heard of those songs sound different from the album certainly -- but I think their composition on the record is just, well, really great... But am I understanding right what you are getting at, or is it something else? J - -- If we do not say all words, however absurd, we will never say the essential words. -- Jose Saramgo http://www.readin.com/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 17:55:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "C. Huff" Subject: RE: The EYE debate "at one point, i could sign "cynthia masK" all the way through, although i sometimes tripped up on the stanza with the "smoke in the orchards."" I love that! would love to see songs like "Tropical Flesh Mandala" or "Globe of Frogs" signed.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 18:32:52 -0700 (PDT) From: "C. Huff" Subject: Re: A couple of things about Eye Sure! Just to get a starting point - the producer's job on a record is to work with the artist to translate the raw song into recorded arrangement and sounds. Some producers are very identifiable (ie Phil Spector, Quincy Jones, Daniel Lanois...they put their signature sound onto things - they like the drums to sound a certain way, bass, etc,) and some just sit back and let the artist do their thing and keep others out of their way (Tom Wilson who produced most of the early Dylan, Andy Warhol produced Velvet Und & Nico). Some play little games to get the best performance out of the artist (Eno with his Oblique Strategies, Rick Rubin making Tom Petty jog...), and then of course some artists produce themselves. You can always tell the age/era of a record by the drum sound. This means that every record eventually sounds dated...but when the drums are relatively low profile I think sonically it tends to sound more "timeless".... Over-produced to me means that the producers (whether same as artist or not) have gone too far and cluttered the arrangement by adding too many instruments or sounds (getting studio happy or having an obscenely large budget i.e. Coldplay's "guitar" sound). You can also do this by overdubbing the same instrument a ridiculous amount of times (48 tracks of guitar). Lots of times I see people refer to things as being over-produced when they have the rawness taken out of them and sound too "slick", so you're definitely right about that. I think though that slick doesn't have to mean over-produced though...just as sometimes raw could use some production (somebody should make some decisions about something!). The 80's were a notorious time of overproduction, because now you had easy to use synths to wash over everything. A good example, for me, of slick production that is not over the top is Howard Jones' "Dream Into Action" record. Like the songs or not, Rupert Hine did a great job of keeping it under control. So. Perspex Island. I am listening to it again right now - certain things leap out at me as being very 80s even though it was 91...the little clappy noise on Vegetation and Dimes - the bridge of Birds of Perspex with the chorus pedals and clappy sounds again - the guitar sound on Ultra Unbelievable Love (possibly the last pre-Nirvanamania instance of this kind of sound?) - however I think the acoustic guitars and the hi-hat cymbals sound awesome...those little fade-in intros sound very 80s in a very 60s kind of way (that late 80s neo-psychedelic thing that RH was at the front of...) - and the snare drum and toms definitely have that 80s echo which was very much how engineers and producers of that era recorded drums. A lot of that has to do with the equipment being used, certain types of analog compressors...the snare is definitely prominent throughout PI so I think that probably contributes to my feeling of "datedness". to sum up b/c I am a bit rambly - sorry bout that: "overproduction" usually goes hand in hand with a bigger budget as when you have more money and more time you also have more toys. Note the sounds of the A&M discs vs. the Glass Fish discs, much fuller and more fleshed out. However, I think certain tracks on PI are less dated productionwise than others - "Oceanside" has aged well, "So You Think You're In Love" is pretty timeless (snare is not quite as loud and has a tambourine floating around it), the acoustic tracks (Birds in Perspex, Ride). Perspex Island: Overproduced? I don't think so. It pretty much sounds like RH and Egypts with maybe a couple of acoustic guitars and little added flourishes. Dated? Sure, in some places. Maybe not as dated as Queen Elvis lol. I take back my previous statement of "very" dated and would now say "slightly" dated. I think also this group of songs is not my favorite, but I loved their energy live. Lots of times it will also happen that songs are recorded first and then when the tour progresses the band can play it better than the record. I always preferred Oceanside acoustic to the album/band version anyway.... hopefully this clarifies...btw I like your quote... - ----- Original Message - ---- From: Jeremy Osner To: C. Huff Cc: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2008 8:56:30 PM Subject: Re: A couple of things about Eye On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:39 PM, C. Huff wrote: > ...the production of > that record is very dated See I've heard this sentiment expressed. And also that it was "over-produced". But I can't understand what it means. Could you help me out? My understanding of what "production" means, is that it's the way the sounds are put together onto the record -- "over-produced" I think would mean the sound is not raw enough, not close enough to the sound of the musicians performing; is this also what you're getting at with "dated production"? If it is I guess it's true -- the live performances that I've heard of those songs sound different from the album certainly -- but I think their composition on the record is just, well, really great... But am I understanding right what you are getting at, or is it something else? J - -- If we do not say all words, however absurd, we will never say the essential words. -- Jose Saramgo http://www.readin.com/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 20:33:22 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: A couple of things about Eye On 10/7/08, Jeremy Osner wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:39 PM, C. Huff wrote: > > ...the production of > > that record is very dated > > > See I've heard this sentiment expressed. And also that it was > "over-produced". But I can't understand what it means. Could you help > me out? My understanding of what "production" means, is that it's the > way the sounds are put together onto the record -- "over-produced" I > think would mean the sound is not raw enough, not close enough to the > sound of the musicians performing; is this also what you're getting at > with "dated production"? If it is I guess it's true -- the live > performances that I've heard of those songs sound different from the > album certainly -- but I think their composition on the record is > just, well, really great... But am I understanding right what you are > getting at, or is it something else? It wasn't my comment - but these terms ("dated" production, "over-produced") are common bugaboos. The era whose production most frequently gets called "dated" seems to be the '80s (I'll let Miles rant about how unfair this all is). Essentially, every era has its sonic preferences and gimmicks, and when the Taste Police (who are in an intense rivalry with the Thought Police, are oddly unaware of the existence of the Dream Police, but who do not sing as they're well aware of the poor quality of their vocal cords - also, Sting was booted out of the Taste Police Academy at a very young age) decide that any of those are somehow now the dreaded Last Year's Thing, well, there's your "dated production." Some examples of era-appropriate sounds: the heavily gated drums ('80s - think "In the Air Tonight" by Phil Collins...although arguably the sound originated on Bowie's "Sound and Vision"), buckets of reverb on the vocals (mid-sixties, as in the stereo mix of _Surrealistic Pillow_), very dry & direct guitar ('70s), etc. etc. As for "over-production": this tends to mean either too much of whatever the era's trendy sounds might be (AutoTune vocals, say) or, more often, that the arrangement is too dense. (That's not really "production" per se...or rather, it isn't necessarily production - but that's what it gets called.) What's amusing is the way this one points toward supposed pop-chart sellout...yet often has wildly outdated notions of what pop-chart sellouts sound like. Ex: I'll still occasionally read a review of something where the band's recorded a string section, and the record'll get called "over-produced"...as if string sections' presence ensures chart success! Also, note that it may well be easier to both arrange and record a string section than to layer five electric guitar parts...yet the first one gets called "over-produced" more than the second. For me, neither term is very useful as criticism. That said, there's something about '80s production style (as typically conceived) that does rub me the wrong way sometimes. I've tried to figure out what it is...and I think it's that a lot of '80s sounds are way too bright and trebly. Someone figured out how to bring out the high end in synths particularly - compared to analog synths of the '70s, '80s synths have way more high end - and I think that a very bright, shiny production, along with a fairly high "noise" level (by which I refer to sort of uncontrolled reverberation of pitches arising from all those high overtones thwacking one another, reverb on a lot of instruments, those gated drums), and a generally busy approach towards arranging (many '80s records might have four or five keyboard parts, the same number of guitars, and a whole raft of percussion parts, both acoustic and electronic), and for me it's actually wearing on my ears after a while. I'd imagine someone here actually knows something about the technical end of producing and recording music and can verify my suspicions (or laugh at and ridicule them - whichever's appropriate). - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 21:38:08 -0400 From: "Jeremy Osner" Subject: Re: A couple of things about Eye On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 9:32 PM, C. Huff wrote: > hopefully this clarifies...btw I like your quote... > > It does -- thanks. My quote is part of this plan I have to get everybody to read Saramago and talk about his books with me -- that's just one little crystallized bit of his pervading genius. J - -- If we do not say all words, however absurd, we will never say the essential words. -- Jose Saramago http://www.readin.com/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 21:42:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Jill Brand Subject: communication breakdown Um, how can I let John McCain know that I am not his friend? Jill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 21:50:31 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: Master Debaters Man, McCain looks really, really bad. This is worse than Dole/Clinton. By a long shot. My only warning: Capitalism may very well be unevenly distributed wealth, but socialism is always (always) evenly distributed poverty. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 02:38:15 +0000 From: Michael Sweeney Subject: Miles on BSDR (I know - I keep changing thread names...) Miles wrote: >last played, and, holy cow, on-topic: Robyn Hitchcock, BLACK SNAKE DIAMONDROLE. You know an album's a great one when even the tracks you sometimesdon't think about (in my case, "Meat," "Out of the Picture," and "City ofShame") are just as stunningly classic as the ones that instantly come tomind.< "Out of the Picture" has grown into one of my absolutely favorite RH songs...and, yeah, almost surprisingly jumps out of such an older record (that I may not play as much as some of the others)...but yet sounds as modern as anything. Almost coulda been a hit (whatever that might mean)... Michael "I still regard the RH canon as perhaps as deep as Dylan's or Costello's...and still ironic that his pal, Lil' Kimberly, has written perhaps 1-1/2 more 'hit' songs than he has (I'm giving either half-credit to 'Balloon Man' or 'SYTYIL'...or taking half away from 'Going Down To Liverpool')..." Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 21:57:51 -0500 From: "Miles Goosens" Subject: Re: Miles on BSDR (I know - I keep changing thread names...) On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 9:38 PM, Michael Sweeney wrote: >Subject: Miles on BSDR (I know - I keep changing thread names...) Gmail thwarter! > Michael "I still regard the RH canon as perhaps as deep as Dylan's or > Costello's... I'd take Robyn over Costello every day of the week and twice on Sunday. And that's not even a knock on Costello. OK, it's sort of a knock on post-KING OF AMERICA Costello, but Costello is a man who has made many splendid albums, so me saying that is hardly to be taken lightly. Or at least no more lightly than anything else I say. Dylan,even if we limit it to quantity of quality material, hm... yeah, Robyn may actually have more first-rate stuff. Few can touch Dylan's '64-'68 run, but the catalog after that requires major sifting. >and still ironic that his pal, Lil' Kimberly, has written perhaps > 1-1/2 more 'hit' songs than he has (I'm giving either half-credit to 'Balloon > Man' or 'SYTYIL'...or taking half away from 'Going Down To Liverpool')..." I have no idea how much of the "Walking on Sunshine" lucre goes in Kimberly's pocket, but a year of the raw income off of that song probably amounts to more cash than Robyn's entire career has raked in. And that's even including that lucrative cone income stream. Also, "Lucrative Cone Income Stream" would be a good band name, Robyn instrumental, or Jenna Jamison autobiography title. later, Miles - -- now with blogspot retsin! http://readingpronunciation.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 23:46:18 -0400 From: "(0% rh)" Subject: Re: The EYE debate C. Huff says: > "at one point, i could sign "cynthia masK" all the way through, > although i sometimes tripped up on the stanza with the "smoke in the > orchards."" > > > > I love that! would love to see songs like "Tropical Flesh Mandala" or > "Globe of Frogs" signed.... i could explain that typo. i choose not to. actually, i've put miles in charge of explaining all my typos. what he does in a few sentences would take me LITRES of not-even-all-that-articulate screenfulls. not to mention more typos. as ever, lauren - -- "people with opinions just go around bothering one another." -- the buddha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 22:07:32 -0500 From: "Miles Goosens" Subject: Re: David Foster Wallace mention in CCR Review On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 7:30 PM, 2fs wrote: > On 10/7/08, Miles Goosens wrote: >> >> The Minutemen also covered Credence, and more than once. >> >> However, I don't think d. Boon and Watt ever gave a damn about cred; after >> all, they were just "fucking corn dogs, man" wearing flannel shirts when >> it >> was wholly uncool to do so, and they played whatever they liked. And, >> bless >> 'em, they liked Credence, and Steely Dan, and Van Halen, and especially >> BOC. > > Well, there you go: "not giving a damn about cred" is way cooler than the > giving of damns - ipso fucto, more cred. While I totally get Jeff's Hipster Paradox - and coincidentally, the wife and I were discussing the conformity of the nonconformist last night - I don't think the Minutemen were playing the "not giving a damn about cred" card. Besides, "look how much we don't care about our coolness!" is more a hallmark of the grunge era anyway. :) > * Kinks quotes are eternally cool. Amen. later, Miles - -- now with blogspot retsin! http://readingpronunciation.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 20:32:30 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: David Foster Wallace mention in CCR Review On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Miles Goosens wrote: > > > > I will shoot my own hipster cred right out the window: CCR's version of > "I > > Heard it through the Grapevine" is *better* than Marvin Gaye's (and > Gladys > > Knight's). Both Gaye's and Knight's versions are great, to be sure...but > > neither of them has the undercurrent of menace that CCR brings to the > song, > > which deepens the intensity of the hurt and betrayal of the lyric. > Let us not forget the Slits' version, which, while a little less essential than their originals, is very very good. (While I love both bands, the Slits' "Grapevine" seems to have more reason to exist than the Raincoats' "Lola", which seems to be there more to just make a point-- but then, unlike most folks, I like the second and third Raincoats better than the first one.) Anyone who claims to dislike CCR and be really into "Loaded" is either a liar or woefully self-deluded, is what I think. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 23:48:29 -0400 From: "(0% rh)" Subject: Re: communication breakdown Jill says: > Um, how can I let John McCain know that I am not his friend? if he had even 1/2 a brain, you wouldn't have to. xo - -- "people with opinions just go around bothering one another." -- the buddha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 23:02:56 -0500 From: "Miles Goosens" Subject: Re: The EYE debate On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 10:46 PM, (0% rh) wrote: > actually, i've put miles in charge of explaining all my typos. what > he does in a few sentences would take me LITRES of > not-even-all-that-articulate screenfulls. not to mention more typos. Hey, I'm right up there in the typo scoreboard! I just re-read a few of my many posts o' today, and there were embarrassing editing artifacts aplenty. But I gratefully accept the compliment, even though my writing isn't a patch on Laruen's. posting via the mutual admiration society's wi-fi, Miles - -- now with blogspot retsin! http://readingpronunciation.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 23:03:21 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Master Debaters On 10/7/08, FSThomas wrote: > > Man, McCain looks really, really bad. > > This is worse than Dole/Clinton. By a long shot. > > My only warning: Capitalism may very well be unevenly distributed wealth, > but socialism is always (always) evenly distributed poverty. Well, by "poverty" do you mean "the inability to acquire necessities for living" or merely "being poorer than some large percentage X of the population"? The first is, of course, a problem; the second not *necessarily* so...and if everyone did have the necessities of the first definition, the second should cease to matter. But I fail to see the relevance - surely you're not imagining Obama is any sort of socialist? - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 20:23:28 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: Watch out all you space cats On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 3:21 PM, James Dignan wrote: > > I must admit I've always thought that Clean Steve was some kind of relative > of Brian Eno's Blank Frank (both the people and the songs) - and that was > apparently aimed at a certain singer with the initials BF that Eno used to > work with. So it's not impossible. Eno produced Black Francis? Cool! - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 21:20:19 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: A couple of things about Eye On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:44 AM, Miles Goosens wrote: > > Let me also remind folks that being sick of the title track because Robyn > plays it a lot in concert is a disease of the cognoscenti. Title track... to a different album, amirite??? But I kid, and the point is well-taken. But I don't think I would have mentioned being a little bit over "QE (the song)" this go-round had the issue not been put forward here during the reviews for the last V3 tour... in fact, I don't think I'd quite realized I was tiring of it (or why) until someone mentioned it here. It is about time Robyn wrote a song called "Eye", innit? He can put it on an album named "Airscape" just for grins. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 21:27:44 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: David Foster Wallace mention in CCR Review On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:07 PM, Miles Goosens wrote: > > While I totally get Jeff's Hipster Paradox - and coincidentally, the > wife and I were discussing the conformity of the nonconformist last > night - I don't think the Minutemen were playing the "not giving a > damn about cred" card. I'm with ya-- I quite sure that they were playing the "we really like Creedence" card. Repeatedly. I tend to think that the only reason more hip bands don't do Creedence covers is that you can't really do 'em better than Creedence. Fogerty's voice is pretty inimitable, and the songs just tend to sound wrong without it. That said, I love the Voidoids' "Walking on the Water". Bob Quine never hurt anything that wasn't asking for it. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 20:21:05 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #735 On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:57 PM, James Dignan wrote: > Jeremy Osner wrote: >> > Yep, I like "Satellite" a lot -- makes me think about Lou Reed -- but >> > what is denoted by "Betsy"? This thing that you can grow in a bag, and >> > which is perishable? >> >> Interesting--Lou Reed? >> > > For me it links with the XTC song "Another satellite", though there's not > much lyrical similarity. > Costello, too. In fact, I thought of the word/idea "satellite" as such a trope of intelligent rock that I felt compelled at one point to write my own "satellite" song, and did; my hook was that "satellite" was a word that once sounded really futuristic, but these days makes one think of nothing so much as how people in trailer parks get their TV. Of "Agony" and "Clickot", I would say that... well... there's this certain class of Robyn acoustic song that's intentionally opaque-- for lack of a better word, difficult. You can make your own list; a lot of them ended up together on "Thatcher". Anyways, the two on "Eye" are carried along by the album, which is really well sequenced, and so in my mind they just aren't as hard to digest as "Blues in A" or "Mr. Tongs". (I think the same thing applies to IODOT-- "Pretty Girl" is ideally positioned in that No. 2 slot as the first song with a vocal; it might puzzle me if it appeared later on. Maybe. IODOT is really part of my DNA, so I can't say for sure.) - -Rex ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #738 ********************************