From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #737 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, October 7 2008 Volume 16 : Number 737 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: The "Eye" debate... [Michael Sweeney ] Re: This is the story of British butter ["kevin studyvin" ] Re: A couple of things about Eye ["Miles Goosens" ] Re: The "Eye" debate... ["Miles Goosens" ] Re: David Foster Wallace mention in CCR Review ["kevin studyvin" ] Re: A couple of things about Eye [Tom Clark ] Re: Robyn's Cape Farewell blog & flickr photostream [djini@voicenet.com] Re: Robyn's Cape Farewell blog & flickr photostream ["Jeremy Osner" ] Re: This is the story of British butter [hssmrg@bath.ac.uk] Re: This is the story of British butter ["kevin studyvin" ] Re: No Future! No Future! No Future for Land O'Lakes!!!! [James Dignan ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #736 [James Dignan ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #736 ["Jeremy Osner" ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #736 ["Miles Goosens" ] Re: David Foster Wallace mention in CCR Review ["Miles Goosens" Subject: RE: The "Eye" debate... ...Oh, BTW, forgot Lou's "Berlin" for sure on that list of unique-atmosphere records. It may be hard to breathe in there, but I still love going there occasionally (in a very sad way)... MLS _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life togetherat home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 08:00:07 -0700 From: "kevin studyvin" Subject: Re: This is the story of British butter shill The Oxford Pocket Dictionary of Current English shill / shil/ inf.  n. an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others.  v. [intr.] act or work as such a person. On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:53 AM, wrote: > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 11:29:25 -0700 (PDT) >> From: Jeff Dwarf >> Subject: No Future! No Future! No Future for Land O'Lakes!!!! >> > > http://www.avclub.com/content/newswire/johnny_rotten_shills_for >> > > I like the way he makes an enormous effort to pronounce "buTTer" but then > slips back into the expected "Bri'ish" afterwards. > > - Mike Godwin > > PS I have worked out what it means from the context, but I haven't come > across the word "shills" before. Origin? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 08:06:28 -0700 From: "kevin studyvin" Subject: Re: A couple of things about Eye > Doesn't everyone like "Eye"? I do recall there being some detractors when > I > first joined this list many moons ago, but I haven't heard anyone slag it > off for a long, long time. > Wouldn't go so far as actual slaggage, but I find both "Certainly Clickot" and "Agony of Pleasure" annoying enough that I don't go there real often. "Linctus House," though - killer. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 10:44:57 -0500 From: "Miles Goosens" Subject: Re: A couple of things about Eye On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 9:05 AM, Rex wrote: > Doesn't everyone like "Eye"? I do recall there being some detractors when > I > first joined this list many moons ago, but I haven't heard anyone slag it > off for a long, long time. This almost feels like a set-up after reading all these beautifully expressed hosannas for EYE. I so don't want to rain on anybody's parade, and have enjoyed reading the passionate advocacy for this album. But... ok, here goes: I'd stop well short of slagging it off, but it is not among my very favorite Hitchcock creations. Most of my problems occur early on: "Certainly Clickot," "Flesh Cartoons," and "Executioner" I could easily live without. The much later-in-the-sequence "Agony of Pleasure" doesn't float my boat either. ("Clickot": nice acoustic guitar/piano work interrupted by those unpleasant dual vocal interludes; "Executioner"'s the most ok of these with some nice lines and Lennonisms, but somehow it doesn't gel as a finished song; "Agony": Robyn's voice goes so shrill at times that it's the proverbial nails on a chalkboard; "Flesh Cartoons": harder to explain my dislike, but it's too slight and too long, making it a momentum-killer.) For prime-era Hitchcock (1978-1993), that's a lot of songs I don't enjoy, all in one place. But the "Queen Elvis" the song (already nicely defended by Rex), "Beautiful Girl," "Raining Twilight Coast," "Clean Steve," "Glass Hotel," and "Aquarium" are tunes I love without reservation. And once we've made run the gauntlet of the early part of the album, the sequencing really picks up from "Linctus House" on. Saying I'm an EYE detractor would be silly; it's still a four-out-of-five stars album I wouldn't want to live without, my #6 of 1990. My first Robyn show, after five dedicated years of fandom, was a wonderful solo/acoustic set at the Bluebird in May 1990, so I have very fond memories of live Robyn from this era. There's no tape of this show that I know of, but whichever October SUNY gig has that great soundboard tape (I think it's Binghamton on 10-2-90) has the same feel and spirit. Let me also remind folks that being sick of the title track because Robyn plays it a lot in concert is a disease of the cognoscenti. Not everyone sees Robyn live a lot or keeps up with the bootlegs. It's like U.K. people on Avalon (the Roxy Music/Ferry list) vehemently complaining about getting "Jealous Guy" in every show, because they can see him 15 times a year within a three mile radius on his latest Summer Tour of the National Trust, when folks in most U.S. locales would be thrilled just to get a Ferry show every olympic year. later, Miles - -- now with blogspot retsin! http://readingpronunciation.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 10:53:44 -0500 From: "Miles Goosens" Subject: Re: A couple of things about Eye On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 10:40 PM, Jeremy Osner wrote: > On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:24 PM, C. Huff wrote: > > It also must be funny for RH to think of Eye now since that > > album was so completely wrapped up in Cynthia... > > I have had that same thought about Perspex Island -- the interviews > I've read with Robyn from the time of it's release, he's talking about > (or the interviewer is talking about, or I am reading in) how he's > found happiness and fulfillment with C, and the record is certainly > very much about love and happiness and fulfillment. One of the things that bugged me about the LUXOR reviews was the whole "well, Robyn's finally matured" angle... to me, PERSPEX ISLAND already artfully covered the "older, wiser, happier" transition, and did it a thousand times better. later, Miles - -- now with blogspot retsin! http://readingpronunciation.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 12:03:14 -0400 From: "Jeremy Osner" Subject: Re: A couple of things about "Eye" On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Jeremy Osner wrote: > On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Marc Alberts wrote: > Now I'm thinking about the lyric "I'm into you so far, I'm out the > other side/ And orbiting is just a waste of time./ The next time I get > into you,/ I swear to god I won't come out again" and it's reminding > me *very strongly* of this other RH lyric, but I can't think what it > is. Something about being an airship and afraid to land on his lover > because he's afraid he will be sucked in and never able to leave? > Aha! "Lysander" is the song I'm thinking about, that has much in common with "Satellite" -- "I circle your heart like I circle the world but I never touch down in case I grew and, grew and, couldn't leave there." J - -- If we do not say all words, however absurd, we will never say the essential words. -- Jose Saramgo http://www.readin.com/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 11:03:40 -0500 From: "Miles Goosens" Subject: Re: The "Eye" debate... On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 1:50 AM, (0% rh) wrote: > there was at a year or two when we would drive, and drink way too much > coffee, watch the clarence thomas hearings, and make fun of "deep" by > peter murphy. While I can see making fun of DEEP by Peter Murphy, because, well, it's Peter Murphy and full of DRAMA! and MEANING!, I think that's one kick-ass album anyway. "Cuts You Up" and "Strange Kind of Love" still floor me every time, back-to-back contenders for Best. Song. Ever. There goes all my cred, and I haven't even mentioned how much I like Kylie yet. Ooops, did I say that out loud? > ancient one-pagish article about > robyn in SPIN magazine (i think in the article he was holding a > balloon, or maybe just a depth-of-field enlarged piece of fruit. it > also was where i first learned that robyn was a dad.) > > the phrase is so wonderfully accurate that it makes up for SPIN's > entire existence. The first year of SPIN's existence was 1985, and the magazine rocked back then, totally kicking ROLLING STONE's increasingly sorry ass. I discovered a lot of things through it, including Robyn Hitchcock in their dual Katrina and the Waves / FEGMANIA! review. I loved - and stole the format of for my college paper - the video review column, and the hilarious back page article about Albanian music I can still quote to this day. But it got too pleased with itself too fast, and subsequently tried to cop what I would have then called an NME attitude, but these days I'd say they'd stuck a Pitchfork in themselves, because they were the wrong kind of smarmy and I was done. later, Miles - -- now with blogspot retsin! http://readingpronunciation.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 09:27:57 -0700 From: "kevin studyvin" Subject: Re: David Foster Wallace mention in CCR Review On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 6:17 AM, wrote: > Uncool Rising: Why It's OK to Listen to Creedence Clearwater Revival > > Cop: And was there anything of value in the car? > The Dude: Oh, uh, yeah, uh...a tape deck, some Creedence tapesb& > -- The Big Lebowski > > > > http://www.popmatters.com/pm/feature/63818/creedence-clearwater-revival-and-the-dilemma-of-coolness > Totally down with that. For my money Fogerty sits comfortably with Hank Williams, Johnny Cash and Gram Parsons. And I still get a tad weepy when I hear "Green River," a burst transmission direct from the summer of 1969... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 09:30:54 -0700 From: "kevin studyvin" Subject: Re: The "Eye" debate... > The first year of SPIN's existence was 1985, and the magazine rocked back > then, totally kicking ROLLING STONE's increasingly sorry ass. I discovered > a lot of things through it, including Robyn Hitchcock in their dual Katrina > and the Waves / FEGMANIA! review. Where I was first pointed to RH and also the once-mighty Smashing Pumpkins. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 08:32:18 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: A couple of things about Eye On Oct 7, 2008, at 7:05 AM, Rex wrote: > Doesn't everyone like "Eye"? I do recall there being some > detractors when I > first joined this list many moons ago, but I haven't heard anyone > slag it > off for a long, long time. > I'm not gonna "slag" it, but I can honestly say that it's one of my least favorite RH albums. Lyrically it's great, but for the most part aren't all his albums? The stories contained in it and the story around it - complete with "Leaving San Francisco" photo on the sleeve - - are compelling too. The bottom line? I'm a rock n' roll guy. It takes a pretty specific combination of mood and situation for me to enjoy nearly an hour of acoustic music with such intense imagery. Oh, and I've always considered this Robyn's most grating vocal performance. It's not a bad performance by any means, but his frequent use of loud, high register turns me off. Having said all that, I have come around to loving his live performances of Queen Elvis, Clean Steve and Glass Hotel. October, - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 18:01:57 -0400 (EDT) From: djini@voicenet.com Subject: Re: Robyn's Cape Farewell blog & flickr photostream Huh. Wonder why they took it down? There are so many pictures of that bench - they must be starved for color. But I think the one with Robyn is the best one. And it really should come as no surprise that I had made the picture my desktop image, and thus still had access to it. So I lolled it up and sent it off to our little corner of the memeverse. Tom, when you get around to posting it, maybe you could link please? The earred hat he is wearing on this trip absolutely slays me. Jeanne > > Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 20:43:20 -0700 > From: Rex > Subject: Re: Robyn's Cape Farewell blog & flickr photostream > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 9:48 AM, wrote: > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/capefarewell/2897940668/ >> Robyn can has bench! > > > Damn... dead link. This must've been good. > > - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 12:55:26 -0400 From: "Jeremy Osner" Subject: Re: Robyn's Cape Farewell blog & flickr photostream On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 6:01 PM, wrote: > > The earred hat he is wearing on this trip absolutely slays me. Some commenter on capefarewell asked if he was "sleeping with your devil hat". - -- If we do not say all words, however absurd, we will never say the essential words. -- Jose Saramgo http://www.readin.com/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 13:42:20 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: The "Eye" debate... - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org [mailto:owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org] On Behalf Of kevin studyvin Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:31 PM To: Miles Goosens Cc: fegmaniax Subject: Re: The "Eye" debate... >> The first year of SPIN's existence was 1985, and the magazine rocked >> back then, totally kicking ROLLING STONE's increasingly sorry ass. I >> discovered a lot of things through it, including Robyn Hitchcock in >> their dual Katrina and the Waves / FEGMANIA! review. >Where I was first pointed to RH and also the once-mighty Smashing Pumpkins. I bought a lot of albums listed in the SPIN album guide from the mid-90's, although it was nowhere near as complete as the Trouser Press guides. I never subscribed to SPIN though, unlike ROLLING STONE, CD Review and MUSICIAN which were my mainstays from the mid 80's on. Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 12:09:51 -0700 From: "kevin studyvin" Subject: Re: The "Eye" debate... > >Where I was first pointed to RH and also the once-mighty Smashing > Pumpkins. > > I bought a lot of albums listed in the SPIN album guide from the mid-90's, > although it was nowhere near as complete as the Trouser Press guides. I > never subscribed to SPIN though, unlike ROLLING STONE, CD Review and > MUSICIAN which were my mainstays from the mid 80's on. > > Michael B. Dear old Musician - I don't know which was more fun, Robert Fripp's columns or the indignant letters in response to them, the most succinct of which read simply, "What a pretentious asshole" - which I'm sure Fripp got a chuckle out of. I'd like to have another loook at Elvis Costello's interview with Jerry Garcia, if anybody knows where it might be archived...? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 20:35:59 +0100 From: hssmrg@bath.ac.uk Subject: Re: This is the story of British butter Thanks, Kevin! - - MRG Quoting kevin studyvin : > shill > The Oxford Pocket Dictionary of Current English > > shill / shil/ inf. b" n. an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who > acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others. b" v. [intr.] > act or work as such a person. > > > > > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:53 AM, wrote: > >> Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 11:29:25 -0700 (PDT) >>> From: Jeff Dwarf >>> Subject: No Future! No Future! No Future for Land O'Lakes!!!! >>> >> >> http://www.avclub.com/content/newswire/johnny_rotten_shills_for >>> >> >> I like the way he makes an enormous effort to pronounce "buTTer" but then >> slips back into the expected "Bri'ish" afterwards. >> >> - Mike Godwin >> >> PS I have worked out what it means from the context, but I haven't come >> across the word "shills" before. Origin? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 13:07:07 -0700 From: "kevin studyvin" Subject: Re: This is the story of British butter Happy to be of service. I loved all the pissed-off comments about how JL/R has sold out the glorious legacy of the Sex Pistols, etc., as though the guy has ever been anything but a glib little provocateur with a spiteful sense of humor. Far as I'm concerned, anybody who can come up with a better piece of work than PiL's Metal Box gets to slag him off - everybody else can go suck eggs. On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 12:35 PM, wrote: > > Thanks, Kevin! > > - MRG > > > Quoting kevin studyvin : > > shill >> The Oxford Pocket Dictionary of Current English >> >> shill / shil/ inf.  n. an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler >> who >> acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others.  v. >> [intr.] >> act or work as such a person. >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:53 AM, wrote: >> >> Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 11:29:25 -0700 (PDT) >>> >>>> From: Jeff Dwarf >>>> Subject: No Future! No Future! No Future for Land O'Lakes!!!! >>>> >>>> >>> http://www.avclub.com/content/newswire/johnny_rotten_shills_for >>> >>>> >>>> >>> I like the way he makes an enormous effort to pronounce "buTTer" but then >>> slips back into the expected "Bri'ish" afterwards. >>> >>> - Mike Godwin >>> >>> PS I have worked out what it means from the context, but I haven't come >>> across the word "shills" before. Origin? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 13:23:58 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Reception_party_ruins_=91Rachel_Getting_Marrie d?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?=92_-_At_the_movies-_msnbc.com?= Too much Robyn? Unpossible! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26961209/ - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 16:32:42 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: David Foster Wallace mention in CCR Review On 10/7/08, HwyCDRrev@aol.com wrote: > > Uncool Rising: Why It's OK to Listen to Creedence Clearwater Revival > > Cop: And was there anything of value in the car? > The Dude: Oh, uh, yeah, uh...a tape deck, some Creedence tapesb& > -- The Big Lebowski > > < > http://www.popmatters.com/pm/feature/63818/creedence-clearwater-revival-and-the-dilemma-of-coolness > > > Interesting article...although something about it strikes me as misconceived. I'm the last person to talk about what's cool these days...but it seems to me that at many moments of rock history, not least including the original punk moment, the rise of early '80s "Americana" bands (at that time including R.E.M.), and revivals of folk-rock, country-rock, etc., Creedence's back-to-basics simplicity and directness made it a *cool* band to like. (At the peak of R.E.M.'s hipster cred in the mid-'80s, for example, it regularly covered Creedence - actually, it grafted both Creedence "Rain" songs together.) So I'm not persuaded by the notion that its unhipness among its contemporaries, nor its chart-topping status, has forever ruled it out from critical & hipster credibility. Also, a major gaffe: writer Zeth Lundy ("Zeth"?) claims that "Fogerty often sings in a rough-and-tumble Southern drawl spiked with the accents of East Coast urbanites: "I *hoid* it through the grapevine": Lundy obviously hasn't listened to the classic blues records that Fogerty and company listened to, since that particular vowel shift *also* pops up frequently there (the thing bluesmen have to all day long, for example, is "woikin'"). I will shoot my own hipster cred right out the window: CCR's version of "I Heard it through the Grapevine" is *better* than Marvin Gaye's (and Gladys Knight's). Both Gaye's and Knight's versions are great, to be sure...but neither of them has the undercurrent of menace that CCR brings to the song, which deepens the intensity of the hurt and betrayal of the lyric. (A basic rule of thumb re hipster cred is that if a '60s or '70s soul artist does a song, it is *always* better than any version by a white band.) - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 10:57:58 +1300 From: James Dignan Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #735 >Jeremy Osner wrote: > > Yep, I like "Satellite" a lot -- makes me think about Lou Reed -- but > > what is denoted by "Betsy"? This thing that you can grow in a bag, and > > which is perishable? > >Interesting--Lou Reed? For me it links with the XTC song "Another satellite", though there's not much lyrical similarity. As for "Eye" tracks, I often play "Chinese Water Python" on my radio show (it's for ambient and instrumental music, so most of RH's songs wouldn't fit. I also love "Cynthia Mask", "Queen Elvis", "Flesh Cartoons", "Clean Steve" (though it never seems to quite fit on the album), and "Glass Hotel". I'll also add a vote for a couple of "Eye" tracks that haven't been mentioned so far - "Raining Twilight Coast" and "Beautiful Girl". On the other hand, I've never really got "Agony of Pleasure" or "Certainly Clickot". James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 11:06:15 +1300 From: James Dignan Subject: Re: No Future! No Future! No Future for Land O'Lakes!!!! > > http://www.avclub.com/content/newswire/johnny_rotten_shills_for > >Ever get the feeling you've been cheated? Your future dream is a shopping scheme. Oh you silly thing - you've really gone and done it now. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 11:21:47 +1300 From: James Dignan Subject: Watch out all you space cats > > singer/guitarist had tremendous pressure to be like Elvis Costello > > > >The juxtaposition of these two reminds me of this odd idea I conceived once >that "Clean Steve" is actually about the Attractions with a few names >changed to protect the innocent - I mean, there's a Steve and a Bruce and a >Nick Lowe cassette, so... I must admit I've always thought that Clean Steve was some kind of relative of Brian Eno's Blank Frank (both the people and the songs) - and that was apparently aimed at a certain singer with the initials BF that Eno used to work with. So it's not impossible. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 11:28:26 +1300 From: James Dignan Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #736 >On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 12:14 AM, Michael Sweeney > wrote: > > It is one of very few albums that completely creates a sonic >world that A) Almost > > no other songs (even by the same artist) enter, and B) None of >its songs leave > >Beautifully put. While I don't have this perception of "Eye" (there >are several songs on there that seem to me like they could as easily >be somewhere else) I think it's a *perfect* description of "Perspex >Island" and of "Moss Elixir", my two fave RH >records, and also of "Entertainment!" by the Gang of 4, and also of >"Highway 61 Revisited", "Bringin it all back home", "Piper at the >Gates of Dawn", "Revolver",... In short, a very nice definition of the >perfect record, and one which I'm planning to borrow. It is nicely put. I've expressed similar thoughts about albums before, but not so succinctly. As I put it in a rather embarrassingly worded essay on my website: "I like work that can "transcend". By this, I mean work that will make me feel like my mind is no longer trapped within my everyday existence - music or art that feels like a separate world based on a slightly different, yet logical, physics... I [also] like to feel a strong sense of three-dimensional space, both in art and in music. It is a rare feat for a musician to create such a feeling, but when they do, it can be magical." I cite albums like Eno's "Another Green World" as one such album, though you're right that the "completeness" of PI also does that. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 19:20:20 -0400 From: "Jeremy Osner" Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #736 On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 6:28 PM, James Dignan wrote: > I [also] like to feel a strong sense of three-dimensional space, > both in art and in music. It is a rare feat for a musician to create such a > feeling, but when they do, it can be magical." The best (i.e. "my favorite") pop music is music that I experience as a structure -- the experience of listening to the music is one of being pulled through or flying through the tunnel of sound -- the chord changes can be corners or bends or steps, the changes in instrumentation can translate into changes in perspective, in texture, in outline of the tunnel and its walls. J - -- If we do not say all words, however absurd, we will never say the essential words. -- Jose Saramgo http://www.readin.com/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 18:36:54 -0500 From: "Miles Goosens" Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #736 On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Jeremy Osner wrote: > The best (i.e. "my favorite") pop music is music that I experience as > a structure -- the experience of listening to the music is one of > being pulled through or flying through the tunnel of sound -- the > chord changes can be corners or bends or steps, the changes in > instrumentation can translate into changes in perspective, in texture, > in outline of the tunnel and its walls. Nothing does that for me like Wire. CHAIRS MISSING, 154, THE IDEAL COPY, and A BELL IS A CUP especially: everything sound on those albums has a distinct shape, place, and resonance. later, Miles - -- now with blogspot retsin! http://readingpronunciation.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 18:55:30 -0500 From: "Miles Goosens" Subject: Re: David Foster Wallace mention in CCR Review On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 4:32 PM, 2fs wrote: > I'm the last person to talk about what's cool these days...but it seems to > me that at many moments of rock history, not least including the original > punk moment, the rise of early '80s "Americana" bands (at that time > including R.E.M.), and revivals of folk-rock, country-rock, etc., > Creedence's back-to-basics simplicity and directness made it a *cool* band > to like. (At the peak of R.E.M.'s hipster cred in the mid-'80s, for > example, > it regularly covered Creedence - actually, it grafted both Creedence "Rain" > songs together.) The Minutemen also covered Credence, and more than once. However, I don't think d. Boon and Watt ever gave a damn about cred; after all, they were just "fucking corn dogs, man" wearing flannel shirts when it was wholly uncool to do so, and they played whatever they liked. And, bless 'em, they liked Credence, and Steely Dan, and Van Halen, and especially BOC. > So I'm not persuaded by the notion that its unhipness among its > contemporaries, nor its chart-topping status, has forever ruled it out from > critical & hipster credibility.... > I will shoot my own hipster cred right out the window: CCR's version of "I > Heard it through the Grapevine" is *better* than Marvin Gaye's (and Gladys > Knight's). Both Gaye's and Knight's versions are great, to be sure...but > neither of them has the undercurrent of menace that CCR brings to the song, > which deepens the intensity of the hurt and betrayal of the lyric. > > (A basic rule of thumb re hipster cred is that if a '60s or '70s soul > artist > does a song, it is *always* better than any version by a white band.) All very well-put, sir. And ditto. later, Miles last played, and, holy cow, on-topic: Robyn Hitchcock, BLACK SNAKE DIAMOND ROLE. You know an album's a great one when even the tracks you sometimes don't think about (in my case, "Meat," "Out of the Picture," and "City of Shame") are just as stunningly classic as the ones that instantly come to mind. - -- now with blogspot retsin! http://readingpronunciation.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #737 ********************************