From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #734 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, October 6 2008 Volume 16 : Number 734 Today's Subjects: ----------------- death and dying ["Benjamin Lukoff" ] Re: death and dying [Carrie Galbraith ] Re: death and dying ["(0% rh)" ] Re: i had a dream, i had an awesome mike mills dream [craigie* ] Re: "confederate flag", and another glimpse at DC from NZ [James Dignan <] Re: *Family Guy* Haters Know This: [2fs ] Re: "confederate flag", and another glimpse at DC from NZ [2fs ] Re: confederate battle flag [HSatterfld@aol.com] Re: confederate battle flag [2fs ] Re: "confederate flag", and another glimpse at DC from NZ ["kevin studyvi] Oh, Stewart ["Nectar At Any Cost!" ] RE: A couple of things about "Eye" ["Bachman, Michael" ] Re: *Family Guy* Haters Know This: [Christopher Gross ] Re: Oh, Stewart ["Stewart Russell" ] Re: confederate battle flag [Christopher Gross ] In which fegs discuss Buffy and BSG...surprise! [2fs Subject: death and dying > From: "(0% rh)" > Subject: Re: *Family Guy* Haters Know This: > > (one unexpected change re: my mom is that i find a bit of a problem > with the term "died" when i talk about my mom. i actually find myself > using the term "passed." this before always seemed like sort of a > euphemism, but, what with the object lesson and all, the term "died" > seems final in a way that is not only kind of unpleasant, but, for all > i know**, may not even be the case.) > The recent popularity of the term "passed" makes me wonder what happened to "passed away," which people seem to be using far less these days. I still use "died" when talking about my parents -- I never did like the euphemistic terms. But I would never tell anyone else what to say, especially in regards to their family members. I wonder if using "died" actually does help me to remember that they are gone -- at least from this world? Feel free to psychoanalyze that. In somewhat related news, I've been volunteering on the Washington Death with Dignity campaign, and I see today that the Seattle Times has endorsed it (so much for Martin Sheen). While I generally think the Times sucks, I'm glad to see that anyway. It'll be close this November. Ben Lukoff ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 23:43:51 -0700 From: Carrie Galbraith Subject: Re: death and dying On Oct 5, 2008, at 10:19 PM, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: >> From: "(0% rh)" >> Subject: Re: *Family Guy* Haters Know This: >> >> (one unexpected change re: my mom is that i find a bit of a problem >> with the term "died" when i talk about my mom. i actually find >> myself >> using the term "passed." this before always seemed like sort of a >> euphemism, but, what with the object lesson and all, the term "died" >> seems final in a way that is not only kind of unpleasant, but, for >> all >> i know**, may not even be the case.) >> > > The recent popularity of the term "passed" makes me wonder what > happened to > "passed away," which people seem to be using far less these days. > > I still use "died" when talking about my parents -- I never did > like the > euphemistic terms. But I would never tell anyone else what to say, > especially in regards to their family members. I wonder if using > "died" > actually does help me to remember that they are gone -- at least > from this > world? Feel free to psychoanalyze that. Oddly, I can't really use the term "died" when talking about my father. I was 24 and he was ill for many years and I never processed his death very well. We were, to say the least, close. And so I use "passed away." My mother, on the other hand, died 7 years ago and I, at the age of 44 then, had the tools to work through the grief and come to terms with it. I can talk about her, tell others she is dead, find solace in that she left peacefully. So I think the terms may have to do with how one deals with grief? Or perhaps the age at which one deals with the death? It is fascinating, and I do think about it a lot, esp. since I am currently dealing with both a childhood friend and a sibling diagnosed with virulent cancers and another childhood friend informing me he has suffered a heart attack recently. I'm not ready for the death of friends and siblings. I'm not sure I can process that kind of grief yet. A few thoughts, - - c And yeah, Apocalypse Now is definitely in my top 10. The original release. Wow. I mean Wow. And the doc "Hearts of Darkness" makes it even more interesting. "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. " - - Thomas Jefferson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 03:50:42 -0400 From: "(0% rh)" Subject: Re: death and dying Ben says: >> From: "(0% rh)" >> Subject: Re: *Family Guy* Haters Know This: >> >> (one unexpected change re: my mom is that i find a bit of a problem >> with the term "died" when i talk about my mom. i actually find myself >> using the term "passed." this before always seemed like sort of a >> euphemism, but, what with the object lesson and all, the term "died" >> seems final in a way that is not only kind of unpleasant, but, for all >> i know**, may not even be the case.) >> > > The recent popularity of the term "passed" makes me wonder what happened to > "passed away," which people seem to be using far less these days. > > I still use "died" when talking about my parents -- I never did like the > euphemistic terms. But I would never tell anyone else what to say, > especially in regards to their family members. I wonder if using "died" > actually does help me to remember that they are gone -- at least from this > world? Feel free to psychoanalyze that. it's something i never gave much thought until my mom died. i've been fortunate in that i've not lost many people close to me. i lost one friend to suicide (a suicide which was not, in any way, a spur of the moment decision), but the death of my mother is my first real experience with true loss. but "died" sounds final in a way that i find almost...impolite, at least when talking about my mom. i think in my slightly-aspergergery brain, i just think of her as gone. as in simply: she was here, and now she's gone. and, don't get me wrong - i still believe in the void. but, for a long time, i've know my belief in the void is what i think, and not what's true. i don't know what's true. and so maybe how i can explain it is that it took my mother's death for me to have to confront a difference in how i think about a thing, and how i talk about that thing. > In somewhat related news, I've been volunteering on the Washington Death > with Dignity campaign, and I see today that the Seattle Times has endorsed > it (so much for Martin Sheen). While I generally think the Times sucks, I'm > glad to see that anyway. It'll be close this November. odd, my mom was always big on the dignified death. she got that. and also feared ever coming to a time when a dignified death would not be an option for her or for people she knew (she had a living will for many, many years.) and in some of her old papers, i came across some information on the hemlock society. personally, i find it strange that people are so interested in prescribing the "well-being" of someone that they would essentially force them to stay alive when they don't wish it. it seems at best controlling, and, at worst, pretty fucking sick. i do understand that assisting a person with such wishes may certainly not be the realm of a physician, but, there are ways that can be handled -- it just seems inhumane not to allow people to make these decisions for themselves. so i wish you success with this issue in washington. and, while i'm in the death thread, i may as repeat once more how thankful i am that my mother was able to receive hospice and stay at home during the last two months of her illness. she was never hospitalized for her illness (she went as an outpatient to receive treatment and diagnostic tests only.) hospice is a truly remarkable service, and i can't speak highly enough of it, or of the people involved in it. because of hospice, i was able to spend my mother's last days with her, at her home, in her room, at her side. and as sort of haunted as i am by that experience, i feel very grateful that i could be there with her, and, were i faced again with the same, yes is all there would be. xo - -- "people with opinions just go around bothering one another." -- the buddha ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 10:14:31 +0100 From: craigie* Subject: Re: i had a dream, i had an awesome mike mills dream the same thing that's delaying the 'new' Roxy Music album with the original lineup, probably. Four years and counting on *that* one... c* On 05/10/2008, Rex wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 11:33 AM, wrote: > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > REM was pretty good on Austin City Limits last night. Although it made me > > long for another Venus 3 tour and album more then wanting to see this era > of > > REM. > > > I had the same reaction to seeing them live: good on them for getting back > some of their old spark, but what the hell is holding up the V3 record that > was started like three years ago along with OT? > > -Rex > - -- first things first, but not necessarily in that order... I like my girls to be the same as my records - independent, attractively packaged and in black vinyl (if at all possible)... Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc (the motto of the Addams Family: "We gladly feast on those who would subdue us") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 11:24:21 +0100 From: craigie* Subject: Re: family guy and don't forget the Chicken Fights... c* who totally didn't get FG until Series 4... then my mind split open... On 06/10/2008, Eleanore Adams wrote: > > ok, I used to hate Family Guy, but then, after the first 2 seasons, I got > hooked on the Peter Show. and today the show totally Rocked - the first 10 > min was all about "the Bird" by the Trashmen. Awesome. > > ea > - -- first things first, but not necessarily in that order... I like my girls to be the same as my records - independent, attractively packaged and in black vinyl (if at all possible)... Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc (the motto of the Addams Family: "We gladly feast on those who would subdue us") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 00:24:18 +1300 From: James Dignan Subject: Re: "confederate flag", and another glimpse at DC from NZ > > I remember a grad school classmate from upstate NY assuring me that he > > grew up with rednecks worse than anything he saw here in Tennessee - > > complete with the Confederate battle flag on the back window of the > > Trans Am. > > >Yeah, WTF is it with that flag? I mean, I'm pretty sure that most of the >folks displaying it in various ways around here (usually on their pickup >trucks) are not actually of southern descent...I think they think it just >stands for something they might call "redneck pride" Not to mention, of course, the fact that it isn't the flag of what they think its of. But that's another story (see for the full details). Oh, and since my last foray in "how US politics is perceived from this dot in the south Pacific went down withoutb a hitch, i present this, from one of this country's best-known political scientists: James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 07:29:38 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: *Family Guy* Haters Know This: On 10/5/08, Rex wrote: > > O > > I guess I sometimes forget that certain things aren't self-evident or at > best underexplained (or poorly explained) by myself. > Short version: Rex has left popular culture in an unventilated car on a 100-degree day, while he hangs out in the bar of Having Kids all day long. Poor Pop Culture! - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 07:34:18 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: "confederate flag", and another glimpse at DC from NZ On 10/6/08, James Dignan wrote: > > >> > > Not to mention, of course, the fact that it isn't the flag of what they > think its of. But that's another story (see < > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America#The_Confederate_Flag> > for the full details). "The new design was specified by the Confederate Congress to be a white field 'with the union (now used as the battle flag) to be a square of two-thirds the width of the flag, having the ground red; thereupon a broad saltier [sic] of blue, bordered with white, and emblazoned with mullets or five-pointed stars, corresponding in number to that of the Confederate States.'" Mullets. That explains a lot. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 09:01:47 -0400 From: "Jeremy Osner" Subject: A couple of things about "Eye" * I kind of hate "Queen Elvis". It seems to me like a much worse song than several others on the record, and yet it's the one that sticks in my memory and that Robyn seems to play more frequently than any of the others. * The other song that sticks in my memory is "Clean Steve", which is one of the RH songs I love best. Over the years of not listening to RH except when I would occasionally spin EoL (the only album of his I owned), I would now and then hear "Clean Steve" in my memory clear as a bell. * "Century" does not stick in my memory at all. And yet it is a very beautiful song. * I'm surprised that "Eye" came out in 1990. That was when I was 20 years old, and well and truly moved away from home, as was my friend who played RH records for me -- and who is the only way I would have heard "Eye" -- so I could have only listened to the record 2 or 3 times tops. And yet "Clean Steve" stayed with me from just a few listenings. * The other two songs that stayed with me, though not as clearly as "Clean Steve" and "Queen Elvis", are "Cynthia Mask" and "Flesh Cartoons". About the latter, I move back and forth between thinking it's about watching pornography, and thinking it's about being high on marihuana and experiencing the world around you as a flesh cartoon. No reason those two interpretations should be mutually exclusive of course. J - -- If we do not say all words, however absurd, we will never say the essential words. -- Jose Saramgo http://www.readin.com/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 09:21:53 EDT From: HSatterfld@aol.com Subject: Re: confederate battle flag As someone who grew up in the Last Capitol of the Confederacy, and as someone who has a profound lack of interest in the Civil War era, I feel that displaying the flag works on two levels. First of all, displaying the flag invites clueless morons who couldn't tell you which side won the Civil War to be outraged. If I can cause people to be unreasonably outraged and start mentioning Hitler just by displaying some tourist trash that I can buy in Woolworth's, that's a lot less work for me than, say, displaying a flag with Beavis and Butt-head dropping their trousers. Secondly, when I was growing up there was a constant stream of letters to the editor about the flag on display in front of the courthouse. It had been on display at this historical setting for a hundred years, but suddenly it meant somebody thought slavery was cool so it had to go. Well, no, actually it meant you were at a museum. But now I have to start pretending that the past never happened because it was not P.C. So now I can offend the thought police as well as people who don't like the Charlie Daniels band. For me, this is a win-win situation. Sorry to anyone who is legitimately offended, but this would not include anyone who actually knows me, so I'm not that sorry. To misquote Sam Kinison, I do not condone displaying a confederate flag, but I understand it. **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 09:12:10 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: confederate battle flag On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 8:21 AM, wrote: > As someone who grew up in the Last Capitol of the Confederacy, and as > someone who has a > profound lack of interest in the Civil War era, I feel that displaying the > flag works on two levels. Thing is, you're talking about displaying a Confederate flag in the former Confederacy. That's totally different from its being displayed here in Wisconsin, or in upstate New York, etc. As I said, it could be that these are exiled southerners...but more likely, it means something not particularly related to the Civil War at all - and probably not (usually) to overt racism, but more to...let me put it this way: I suspect that these are the folks to whom you're appealing when you refer to a "liberal elite," or when you write an ad that refers disdainfully to "New York City!?" etc. They're quite possibly prone to use the phrase "heartland" unironically in referring to the midwest, and think liberals generally are a bunch of spoiled whiners - not real men (or real women, for that matter), and who'd flinch if you so much as look at them aggressively. The sad thing is, these folks' feeling of being looked down upon and ignored is largely correct - but it's not primarily by "liberal elites" --although it is certainly true that looking down on "rednecks" is an acceptable sport - - hell, I've done it myself - and maybe shouldn't be, except perhaps that what's made fun of is matters of choice (hairstyles, clothing, preferences in music and loud fast vehicles driving around in circles) rather than the things they're born with. Anyway: there's certainly been an economic change in which the sorts of working class or even more marginal jobs are no longer able to support anyone, and it's also true that the sort of macho worldview of these folks is in fairly serious eclipse, even though it ain't hardly dead yet. (Abbreviated comment re Republicans are not these folks' friends even though that party's campaigns are geared entirely to appeal to them...because there are more of them than there are investment bankers.) > > -- > > ...Jeff Norman > > The Architectural Dance Society > http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 07:52:54 -0700 From: "kevin studyvin" Subject: Re: "confederate flag", and another glimpse at DC from NZ > Oh, and since my last foray in "how US politics is perceived from this dot > in the south Pacific went down withoutb a hitch, i present this, from one of > this country's best-known political scientists: > < > http://www.odt.co.nz/lifestyle/magazine/25327/does-american-liberalism-have-a-future > > > Might disagree about Afghanistan, but on the whole it seems like a pretty happening analysis. So, the Dow's below 10 K and falling. Good thing all my money's in mud hut and pointed stick futures... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:09:44 -0700 From: "Nectar At Any Cost!" Subject: Oh, Stewart do you have a line on the julian koster christmas album (due out tomorrow)? looks very cool! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 12:49:21 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: A couple of things about "Eye" "Linctus House" and "Cynthia Mask" are the two Eye standouts that grabbed me right away 18 years ago. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org [mailto:owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Osner Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 9:02 AM To: breadmaniax Subject: A couple of things about "Eye" * I kind of hate "Queen Elvis". It seems to me like a much worse song than several others on the record, and yet it's the one that sticks in my memory and that Robyn seems to play more frequently than any of the others. * The other song that sticks in my memory is "Clean Steve", which is one of the RH songs I love best. Over the years of not listening to RH except when I would occasionally spin EoL (the only album of his I owned), I would now and then hear "Clean Steve" in my memory clear as a bell. * "Century" does not stick in my memory at all. And yet it is a very beautiful song. * I'm surprised that "Eye" came out in 1990. That was when I was 20 years old, and well and truly moved away from home, as was my friend who played RH records for me -- and who is the only way I would have heard "Eye" -- so I could have only listened to the record 2 or 3 times tops. And yet "Clean Steve" stayed with me from just a few listenings. * The other two songs that stayed with me, though not as clearly as "Clean Steve" and "Queen Elvis", are "Cynthia Mask" and "Flesh Cartoons". About the latter, I move back and forth between thinking it's about watching pornography, and thinking it's about being high on marihuana and experiencing the world around you as a flesh cartoon. No reason those two interpretations should be mutually exclusive of course. J - -- If we do not say all words, however absurd, we will never say the essential words. -- Jose Saramgo http://www.readin.com/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 12:59:13 -0400 From: "Jeremy Osner" Subject: Re: A couple of things about "Eye" "Linctus House" I never really liked until I recently heard his performance of it at the April 96 Bilbao concert, which opened my eyes. On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Bachman, Michael wrote: > "Linctus House" and "Cynthia Mask" are the two Eye standouts that grabbed me right away 18 years ago. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org [mailto:owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Osner > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 9:02 AM > To: breadmaniax > Subject: A couple of things about "Eye" > > * I kind of hate "Queen Elvis". It seems to me like a much worse song than several others on the record, and yet it's the one that sticks in my memory and that Robyn seems to play more frequently than any of the others. > * The other song that sticks in my memory is "Clean Steve", which is one of the RH songs I love best. Over the years of not listening to RH except when I would occasionally spin EoL (the only album of his I owned), I would now and then hear "Clean Steve" in my memory clear as a bell. > * "Century" does not stick in my memory at all. And yet it is a very beautiful song. > * I'm surprised that "Eye" came out in 1990. That was when I was 20 years old, and well and truly moved away from home, as was my friend who played RH records for me -- and who is the only way I would have heard "Eye" -- so I could have only listened to the record 2 or 3 times tops. And yet "Clean Steve" stayed with me from just a few listenings. > * The other two songs that stayed with me, though not as clearly as "Clean Steve" and "Queen Elvis", are "Cynthia Mask" and "Flesh Cartoons". About the latter, I move back and forth between thinking it's about watching pornography, and thinking it's about being high on marihuana and experiencing the world around you as a flesh cartoon. No reason those two interpretations should be mutually exclusive of course. > > J > > -- > If we do not say all words, however absurd, we will never say the essential words. -- Jose Saramgo http://www.readin.com/blog/ > - -- If we do not say all words, however absurd, we will never say the essential words. -- Jose Saramgo http://www.readin.com/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 12:59:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: *Family Guy* Haters Know This: Family Guy: I found the few episodes I saw fairly enjoyable, and I'd be willing to watch more in the future, but I wouldn't call myself a fan. FG seems to emphasize the humor and satire at the expense of character development, so I might enjoy it but it'll probably never be something I could *love*. Random thoughts on the Whedonverse and BSG: Joss's shows all draw you in and keep you there through characters. BSG logically *should* draw you in through the plot -- what could be bigger or more gripping than the sudden annihilation of 99.9-bar percent of humanity, with the remainder fleeing for their lives? Yet it, too, quickly becomes a character-driven drama. I think it's the depth of characterization, rather than the darker stories or 21st-century special effects, that really distinguishes the new BSG from the 1970s version. Whoever said that BSG feels more "grounded" than Buffy is right, but on the other hand, Buffy was freer to follow its characters wherever they might go, giving it more variety. Buffy has horror, action, mystery, romance, drama, comedy both high and low, and even a musical, whereas BSG simply has to focus on the drama. That doesn't make BSG a worse show by any means. But it does make both Buffy and Angel better candidates if I have to choose a single most favoritest series, or a Desert Island Boxed Set. Lauren, I'm not sure what you meant by the story-vs-truth distinction, or how it connects with the search for God. Is it something like "story = truth on a personal level" and "truth = truth in a philosophical sense"? If so, then you can of course prefer philosophical "truth," but I'd say BSG works at least as well on the former type as the latter. If you want to expand on this further, then I, for one, will read it. On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, Miles Goosens wrote: > And Jason is spot on: If the BSG pilot and first series episode ("33" > pretty much defines "in medias re" and is one of the most relentless, > great hours of TV I've ever seen) don't grab you, yeah, we won't bug > you any more. At least I won't. Thirded. Even after all these seasons, 33 is a strong contender for my single favorite BSG episode. But note that the two-hour pilot does get off to a ... let's say leisurely start. Just give it time. > BUFFY, like B5, requires some slogging through an uneven first season > to get to the really good stuff, but s1 of BUFFY still has many > pleasures To shorten the slog, you can just skip right over episode 4, Teacher's Pet, and episode 8, I Robot ... You Jane. (Though even those ones have a few good moments.) For the more impatient, you can even shorten the season to just episodes 1, 2, 7 and 12, though you'd miss a lot of good stuff. The two-part premiere, WTTH/The Harvest, is a vital introduction and well-acted, but frankly not directed very well. Ep. 7, Angel, is pretty good and *vital* to developing the show's mythos. The season finale, Prophecy Girl, is the one that really kicks ass (despite some lame special effects) and presages some of the best elements of future seasons. It is also the first episode both written and directed by Joss Whedon. Coincidence? Fuck no. > and is an abbreviated season, so you'll get to prime > material quickly. Beware that there are also a couple of clunkers in early S2, so don't give up too soon. I think BtVS enters its classic period in the second half of the season. If you can watch straight through to the end of S2 without gettind drawn in, then Buffy might not be for you. But I'd still watch S3 just to make sure. Random note: Eddie, I love the idea of measuring CDs/DVDs in liters. I shall adopt this practice forthwith. - --Chris "watched Blade Runner in full about 8 or 10 times, skipped through it to certain scenes more times than I can count" the Geekster ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 13:04:30 -0400 From: "Stewart Russell" Subject: Re: Oh, Stewart 2008/10/6 Nectar At Any Cost! : > do you have a line on the julian koster christmas album (due out tomorrow)? > looks very cool! Nope, not yet. Probably get it when it hits emusic - who needs physical CDs any more, now my shed is full of them? Anyway, it would cut into my Sheesham & Lotus listening time. Your reliable grey arse cannot handle them. Stewart - -- http://scruss.com/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 13:10:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: confederate battle flag On Mon, 6 Oct 2008, HSatterfld@aol.com wrote: > So now I can offend the thought police as well as people who don't like > the Charlie Daniels band. Sigh. Everyone gets this wrong. Folks, people who disagree with you are not the "thought police." People who disagree with *me* are the thought police! - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 13:31:44 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: In which fegs discuss Buffy and BSG...surprise! On 10/6/08, Christopher Gross wrote: > > > Random thoughts on the Whedonverse and BSG: Joss's shows all draw you in > and keep you there through characters. BSG logically *should* draw you in > through the plot -- what could be bigger or more gripping than the sudden > annihilation of 99.9-bar percent of humanity, with the remainder fleeing for > their lives? Yet it, too, quickly becomes a character-driven drama. That makes sense to me: the "sudden annihilation of 99.9-bar percent of humanity" is a brilliant plot for a movie...but perforce, after you've dealt with that situation, and you need to find an ongoing focus because you're a TV show, you're going to deal with the remnant of humanity...that is to say, your characters. And of course the scale of the devastation is probably quite literally incomprehensible - so you can't just focus on it all the time, or the show would turn into a series of random characters screaming, jumping off cliffs, or drinking. (Oh wait - it does do two of those three pretty frequently...). You focus on what probably actually would happen: after a while, people focus as they inevitably do on the moment...with only the few able to keep the larger picture in place, and that fleetingly - and the conflict between those two perspectives is indeed one of the drivers of the show. But it's played out in character - and I'd argue that situations should *always* be played out through character, because ultimately it's people, their decisions, their being we react to as situations affect them and through them ourselves - only rarely the situation itself, and then only at first. I think it's the depth of characterization, rather than the darker stories > or 21st-century special effects, that really distinguishes the new BSG from > the 1970s version. Can't say I ever watched the first BSG - but I also get the impression the tone is much different as well. The new BSG pretty much forgets it's nominally science fiction - it's simply a drama - sometimes a wartime drama, sometimes a familial drama, sometimes romantic, etc. etc. etc. Even the more science-fictional of plot elements - the whole Cylon business - is handled almost more as a question of identity, duty, or even philosophy or religious faith than as "wow - cool machines!" or even "how do people act confronted with cool machines?" (I added the second because the first sounds like I'm condescending towards sf - I'm not, but obviously there's a large strain of it that pretty much is "wcm!" The second approach - sub in other things for "machines," like "aliens," "genetic surgery," etc. etc. - is obviously more thoughtful but again brings us nearer to conventional drama, with only the speciifcs being science-fictiony.) Whoever said that BSG feels more "grounded" than Buffy is right, but on the > other hand, Buffy was freer to follow its characters wherever they might go, > giving it more variety. Buffy has horror, action, mystery, romance, drama, > comedy both high and low, and even a musical, whereas BSG simply has to > focus on the drama. I think it's important to recognize that Buffy - and for that matter, all of Whedon's work, nearly - is explicitly genre-driven. Yes, they play around with and mix genres all the time - but there's unlikely to be any Whedon show ever that tries to justify the existence of vampires using science, etc., so that we can feel it's a "realistic" show or world. We simply take as given that hey, there are vampires, and go from there. In some ways, that's the beauty of genre tropes: they don't need to be explained or justified, and so all your energy can go into plot, character, etc., w/o shoveling everything into the ditch of "realism" and factuality. Are there really all those murders and can little old ladies really solve them? Who cares - the idea is to be entertained by what happens when that *does* go on. Actually the question of what level of reality to maintain in a given fictitious production is quite tricky - quite often these things fail because it's either not realistic enough or too realistic (which disrupts our acceptance of the fantastic almost exactly in complement to the way unrealism disrupts our acceptance of the nominally real in fiction). - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #734 ********************************