From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #687 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, August 20 2008 Volume 16 : Number 687 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Etc. ["kevin studyvin" ] RE: Etc. ["Bachman, Michael" ] Monkeys' Uncle ["Stacked Crooked" ] Re: Today in history, Part 2 [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] "Cynthia Mask" ["Jeremy Osner" ] Robyn with other musicians ["Jeremy Osner" ] Re: Monkeys' Uncle [2fs ] Re: Robyn with other musicians ["Stewart C. Russell" ] RE: RHE Box Set ["Bachman, Michael" ] NEW on DIME: ROBYN HITCHCOCK AND THE EGYPTIANS - Dingwalls, London, UK - Mar. 15, 1985 [ontario moe] RH Box Set (yeah yeah I know) ["Jeremy Osner" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:30:28 -0700 From: "kevin studyvin" Subject: Etc. Favorite news item of the day (a tad stale but WTF): http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008080677_scooters30m0.html I like the observation that some parts of town are more "scooterish" than others. I imagine that would include Belltown (where the Crocodile used to be)... np: Comp CD of assorted early-70s Eno. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:51:12 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: Etc. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org [mailto:owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org] On Behalf Of kevin studyvin Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:30 PM To: My little droogies Subject: Etc. >Favorite news item of the day (a tad stale but WTF): http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008080677_scooters30m0. html >I like the observation that some parts of town are more "scooterish" than others. >I imagine that would include Belltown (where the Crocodile used to be)... Wikipedia mentions that Johnny Depp was interested in snapping up the Crocodile back in May. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile_Cafe Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:45:22 -0700 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: Monkeys' Uncle not true: anarchists advocate dissolution of the state, but still favour social organisation. this still, of course, leaves open your question: how can the majority in good conscience force the minority into a new way of living? in my opinion, the Declaration of Independence got it right (it should be stated, by the way, that quite a lot of american colonists -- can't remember the percentage -- favoured retaining the monarchy...): we're endowed with inalienable rights (and the three specified seem to me a mighty fine starting point). and if a group (in the case of state-administered capitalism, that'd be the exploiters, their apparatchiks, and apologists for empire) is *violating* those rights, they've no moral claim to keep doing so. i hasten to add that a syndicalist society, or something like, could only claim to be non-hierarchical by ignoring the rights of non-human life. that's by definition true of any civilisation -- not to mention that all civilisations, being by-definition ecologically unsustainable, must collapse. no, the state *is* the problem: it's inherently antithetical to our rights. (of course, if you consider "property" to be a human right, you may have a different opinion.) so long as they're not suffering injustice, who cares? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:47:30 +1200 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: Today in history, Part 2 >On Sun, 8/17/08, hssmrg@bath.ac.uk wrote: >> The question seems to be >> whether the South Ossetians should be allowed self-determination, > >Not that I can claim to know there was such a thing as a South >Ossetian before this whole thing, but shouldn't the answer to that >be "duh?" What legitimate compelling reason would there be for any >other answer? > >> and, if so, whether they would vote to be reintegrated with Russia. > >And the possibility of that answer being yes would not qualify as a >legitimate reason for "no." > >That is the nice thing about situations like this: in spite of what >the media tries to claim, there really are rarely any good guys, so >it makes it easy to know who is to blame even without proper >reporting, just because you know it's going to be everybody's fault. Though I agree with those points, it does take South Ossetia in isolation, which you can't do with politics in general, and particularly with politics in such delicate areas as the Russian border regions around the Caspian - even more so when oil is involved, which it seems to be. There are all too many areas in that region which have historically had ties to other countries and which dislike their own official national government enough to rebel - whatever happens in South Ossetia is likely to be looked on as a precedent by such regions. The whole business is very messy - in terms of the fighting itself, in terms of the legality or otherwise of Russia and Georgia's moves, and also in terms of what would be the best outcome. It's got all the makings of a 21st century Schleswig-Holstein problem (see ), and that was thrny enough to keep politicians and armies tied in knots for decades. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:59:29 -0400 From: "Jeremy Osner" Subject: "Cynthia Mask" I'm on sort of a concert-tape watching kick this evening. Already I have viewed (with my friend Bob) "The Leningrad Cowboys' Total Balalaika Show"* and "The Rolling Stones Rock n Roll Circus". Now Bob has left and I find myself putting "Elixirs and Remedies" on the turntable. The "Cynthia Mask" that starts off this tape is just pretty remarkable. J * This is a movie that I think would appeal strongly to somebody of the Hitchcock-listening persuasion, taking my own instance as an example. Does anybody know the source of the two songs from the middle of that tape, "Oh, Field!" and "Katlenka"? Wow was the only means I could find with which to respond. - -- READIN 2.0 http://www.readin.com/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:08:19 -0400 From: "Jeremy Osner" Subject: Robyn with other musicians Oh one other thing: I really enjoy watching Hitchcock interacting with the musicians that are playing with him on the tapes I've seen -- the interplay between him and Phillips on "Queen Elvis" is for instance making me like this song a lot more than I do otherwise. I'm excited to be seeing him in November with Captain Keegan. Before I have only seen him alone or with the Venus 3, which show did not however really feature the kind of interaction I'm thinking about. Anyway: this show does not have the beautiful production of like "Storefront Hitchcock" or something but it is a pretty great concert. J - -- READIN 2.0 http://www.readin.com/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:37:05 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Monkeys' Uncle On 8/19/08, Stacked Crooked wrote: > > compels people who want there to be a governing order to do without one - > which strikes me as tyrannical to the exact degree of compelling people who > don't want a governing order to do with one.> > > not true: anarchists advocate dissolution of the state, but still favour > social organisation. this still, of course, leaves open your question: how > can the majority in good conscience force the minority into a new way of > living? > > in my opinion, the Declaration of Independence got it right (it should be > stated, by the way, that quite a lot of american colonists -- can't > remember the percentage -- favoured retaining the monarchy...): we're > endowed with inalienable rights (and the three specified seem to me a > mighty fine starting point). and if a group (in the case of > state-administered capitalism, that'd be the exploiters, their > apparatchiks, and apologists for empire) is *violating* those rights, > they've no moral claim to keep doing so. True enough. The problem is that merely being left alone is often less than people want. Example: I believe it was in Wisconsin a decade or so ago that the Posse Comitatus insisted, among other things, that since it did not accept the US government's authority, it also did not accept US money. And it therefore attempted to conduct business with its own money - money which, of course, was utterly worthless to anyone not consenting to its value. (That this is true of all paper money, checks, and credit generally is another issue...) Carry this further: a group of people utterly refusing to accept any sort of government regulation, and so (say) driving on whatever side of the road they please, running traffic signals, etc. etc. etc. I suppose what this gets to is the nature of a society. "Government" is really just an instantiation of the trust and consent necessary for any society to cohere (and, indeed, in extreme cases, exist at all). There are, I'd argue, better and worse versions of this. All I'm really saying is that I do not think it's an automatic "yes" whenever *any* group of people demands varying degrees of exemption from a government and its laws. You suggest that the way to go about this is not merely to up and assert a set of unspecified rights (such as deciding one day that your Posse Bucks are real money) but to insist on a set of principles (best version: principles that the people & government you're dissenting from claim to concur with) and, when those principles are violated, argue that the contract of state and citizen (whereby the citizen agrees to abide by laws so long as the government respects those rights & principles) has been breached, and that therefore the citizen is no longer bound by that government (perhaps until some remedy is rendered, perhaps never again). At least I think that's what you're saying. That's a long way from an automatic "yes"... > > > definition of what it governs. The concept of the "nation," however > problematic it is (and often those problems arise from the nation-as > geographical-and-sovereign-entity being defined w/o regard to the wishes of > the people inhabiting that geography), still seems a necessary solution to > the problem.> > > no, the state *is* the problem: it's inherently antithetical to our rights. I disagree. I think *ideally*, the state is (as I said above) an instantiation of the people's desire to stand against *other* forces of oppression, or a counterweight to those with other forms of power (wealth, privilege, etc.). This is an ideal democratic state, the power of the otherwise powerless, a body collective. In its debased form, of course, it decays only to "majority rule" (generally an absurd concept since few things in life actually have a majority in their favor except insofar as nuances are stripped away leaving a bloated generality that has almost no applicability to each individual's reality), rather than creating a space in which people's (individual persons, groups of people with common interests, the people as a whole) voices are given some sort of hearing or representation. It's extremely doubtful the US ever really wanted this sort of thing - fear of the people has been a powerful force from the beginning, and the lack of any sort of multi-party representation or a voting system that more closely represents people's wishes is a clear indicator of that fact - and the enormous resistance to even discussing any rectification of those problems is an even clearer indication. state says, yeah, sure, go ahead - be a self-determining group of people > known as "Fegmaniax" - then what meaning does the nation ultimately have?> > > so long as they're not suffering injustice, who cares? I think my point is that the proliferation of arbitrarily comprised atom-states ("I disagree with the government's right to tell me I can't drive my Hummer on my neighbor's lawn; therefore I form the nation of Asshogland, of which I declare myself sovereign, and will now drive through your fence") *inherently* leads to injustice, in that there becomes no agency short of force to counteract potential injustice. If a state *does* say that yeah, that guy with the Hummer is within his rights to secede and form a nation of one; sorry we have no jurisdiction over the nation of Asshogland - well, what redress does the neighbor have - short of forming his own nation and declaring war on Asshogland? This is obviously an extreme example of atomizing states...yet it bears a somewhat uncanny resemblance to the sort of extreme individualism favored by some right-wing libertarians...and certainly to corporate ideology, which declares any law or regulation that inhibits the corporation's self-interest (i.e., its ability to make money) is inherently unjust. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:24:37 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Robyn with other musicians Jeremy Osner wrote: > Oh one other thing: I really enjoy watching Hitchcock interacting with > the musicians that are playing with him You should see him with Kimberley - that's amazing! Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:54:00 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: RHE Box Set Nuppster wrote: >5) Live bonus disc. Obviously, something must've happened to the live recording on Feb 12 1992. >Because there was never a better version of Globe of Frogs or When I Was Dead (acoustic) and neither >were included. Michael Bachman, testify. Hum baby that was some concert and those were great renditions! I do wish that a recording of that show would surface!! I'm waiting for a Border's coupon to get my RHE Box Set. 2010 for the Soft Boys Box Set and a reunion tour? Michael B. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org [mailto:owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bri N Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 10:46 AM To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Subject: RHE Box Set 1)Dwarfbeat- I guess that's what happens accidentally when your compiling your past albums. 2) veins of the Queen- I have no idea, really. I wondered the same thing. Good Night I Say, would've been a great one instead. and I'll add: While I love this comp and the new songs I did notice: 3) No liner notes, like in the 1st boxset! 4) Thank you for the inclusion of the dates on the 2 bonus discs! Like, Tom Clark, I love details! Yet the Poi Dog Pondering trumpet player's name was omitted in the credits for Veins Of The Queen. 5) Live bonus disc. Obviously, something must've happened to the live recording on Feb 12 1992. Because there was never a better version of Globe of Frogs or When I Was Dead (acoustic) and neither were included. Michael Bachman, testify. 6) It is great to finally have Hanging Out With Dad, but I prefer the vocals on the bootleg version on 'Queen Elvis demos'. Am I the only one? 7) Live Man Die- Where are the cool Morris/Andy harmonies from the 'Queen Elvis demos'?! 8) No 'Queen Elvis demos' Mr. Rock and Roll. Oh well. 9) Surfer Ghost!!!! Surfer Ghost!!!!! 10) Bad Case Of History (the song) is amazing! Surprised this was not a B-side at the time. 11) Great to hear the Sean Lyons 4th album studio tracks. 12) I just wish they would've filled up the entire 80 minutes on Bad Case Of History. I know there must be many more studio gems out there. Not complaining, just sayin'. - -Nuppy - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 21:40:28 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: initial Luminous queries 1) What happened to "Dwarfbeat"? 2) Okay, so I guess there's no better place for the four extra 1989 live tracks than on Hen...but given that those tracks were recorded June 15, 1989, at the Ritz in NYC...and given that the live version of "Veins of the Queen" on "Bad Case..." 2 was recorded at the Ritz in NYC in 1989...aren't the odds pretty fair that's the same show - or at least close enough that why isn't "Veins" on this version of "Hen" along with the other '89 live tracks? (Yes, there's room on the CD) I'm sure others will note other key omissions... - - -- ...Jeff Norman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:14:48 -0400 From: ontario moe Subject: NEW on DIME: ROBYN HITCHCOCK AND THE EGYPTIANS - Dingwalls, London, UK - Mar. 15, 1985 http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=210531&hit=1 - ----- Forwarded message from DIME ----- A new torrent has been uploaded to DIME. Torrent: 210531 Title: ROBYN HITCHCOCK AND THE EGYPTIANS - Dingwalls, London, UK - Mar. 15, 1985 Size: 304.24 MB Category: Brit Pop Uploaded by: TheCommish Info hash: c78042a4dd005878e4d8561b3b552bf7c0a5400e Description - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robin Hitchcock and the Egyptians Dingwall's London, U.K. March 15, 1985 AUD recording ** mp3 samples (as always) included in the Comments section Here's another show from the harwilmer/TheCommish torrent team...enjoy! I'm not a big fan of Robyn Hitchcock--I only own his "Perspex Island" album, which was released several years after this show was recorded--so please let me know if I messed up any of the song titles. This show was actually a "throw-in" from harwilmer...it was included among a bunch of other shows (on cassette) that I'll be digitizing and uploading in the future. Despite the fact that I'M not a huge Robyn Hitchcock fan, this is a good show...and both harwilmer and I agree that many people on DIME will want it. So here it is! Setlist: 01. Sometimes I Wish I Was A Pretty Girl (fades in) 02. Another Bubble 03. Where Are The Prawns? (tape flip in middle; faded out/back in) 04. Acid Bird (incomplete--fades out) 05. The Cars She Used To Drive 06. The Fly 07. Brenda's Iron Sledge 08. America 09. Egyptian Cream 10. Only The Stones Remain 11. The Face Of Death 12. Listening To The Higsons 13. Heaven 14. Goodnight I Say Note: At the end of "Listening To The Higsons", Robyn mentions that R.E.M.'s Peter Buck is present and that they're planning to give him a guitar lead in the next song, but it's hard to discern whether or not he actually made it to the stage to play or not. Lineage: Cassette (from harwilmer) > CD recorder > CD-RW > AudioCrusher > WAV file > CD Wave (for tracking) > WAV files > FLAC Frontend > FLAC Here's harwilmer's notes regarding the show: "The flip side of this is a Robyn Hitchcock show. My guess is that there is a digitized version out there somewhere. If you happen to want to do this one, I wouldn't mind grabbing a digitized copy of it, but I wouldn't make any kind of special request.--OK, I just checked DIME and archive.org, and this show is not on either, and it would be the earliest show by a couple of years on either place. SO, it might make a bunch of folks happy, and it would probably be snatched a bunch o' times..." If you decide to download this show, won't you please consider posting a comment on the show's board? It only takes a moment, and believe me, it takes A LOT longer to prepare/upload a show for others to enjoy than it does to download and run. And won't you please consider thanking harwilmer for sharing this hard-to-find (and early era) Robyn Hitchcock and the Egyptians show? Generously shared by harwilmer and uploaded on DIME by TheCommish August 2008 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:32:42 -0400 From: "Jeremy Osner" Subject: RH Box Set (yeah yeah I know) You know what is nice? Listening to "Element of Light" for the first time in a while, that's nice. Alone at home and can turn up "The President" pretty loud. I get so familiar with his songs I feel like they're inside me during the interval when I have not listened to the record; but then when I turn it on I find I've forgotten (or "failed to retain") the amazing lushness of his voice. God knows you're out there -- I can almost hear it raining. Cheers J - -- READIN 2.0 http://www.readin.com/blog/ ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #687 ********************************