From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #685 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, August 16 2008 Volume 16 : Number 685 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Today in history [2fs ] Re: Today in history ["(0% rh)" ] Headline Of The Moment ["Stacked Crooked" ] Re: Today in history ["(0% rh)" ] Hold Steady? [2fs ] Re: Today in history ["(0% rh)" ] Re: Today in history ["(0% rh)" ] Re: Today in history [Carrie Galbraith ] Re: half-remembered Robyn quote on cynicism ["(0% rh)" ] Re: Headline Of The Moment [Christopher Gross ] Re: Headline Of The Moment [2fs ] Re: half-remembered Robyn quote on cynicism ["kevin studyvin" ] And one last backup news piece [Carrie Galbraith ] Re: is this thing on? [djini@voicenet.com] REAP [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: is this thing on? ["kevin studyvin" ] NEW on DIME: Robyn Hitchcock and Friends: 17 Nov. 2000 - The Point, Oxford, England, UK. (Fixed) [o] initial Luminous queries [2fs ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:26:00 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Today in history On 8/15/08, Bachman, Michael wrote: > I thought it was pretty strange that Grand Funk Railroad broke the > Beatles record in 1971 for Shea attendence. The data is unclear: Grand Funk fans were so hairy that it was hard to individuate them in the crowd, and it may be that what one researcher counted as four people was actually one guy, his bushy hair, his sideburns and mustache, and his beard. Note also that attendance was taken from about a mile above via blimp: the band's fans pungently justified that "Grand Funk" moniker. On 8/15/08, (0% rh) wrote: > > > > > > Well no - since it was "Shea Stadium," they're responsible for inventing > > stadium rock. > > sort of relatedly, i saw ``the dark knight'' last night and was > wondering why ``indie'' directors given the big bucks and accompanying > big audiences seem to escape the criticism given to musicians of > similar fate - i.e. i don't hear any people grumbling ``sellout'' re: > christopher nolan. Oh, I'm sure those folks are out there...although they were probably out there way back for _Insomnia_ what with Al Pacino and Robin Williams and all. How come Robin Williams is only convincing as an actor when he's playing a psychotic nutjob? Oh wait - I think I've answered my own question. Anyway: if the whole "sellout" thing is dying the death, good. I mean, yes, it's possible to try to sell out...but to be truly applicable, it needs to include copping a genuinely popular trend, doing so with great insincerity, and being nakedly eager for success. The term's spread so much that bands get accused of "selling out" if, on their first release, there was 48 tons of feedback and no actual notes and, on the second, there was an actual E minor chord at one point. BTW, i enjoyed the movie very much. heath ledger was as entertaining > as everyone has said (for once, i don't think the brilliance of his > performance has been exaggerated by his death.) i actually liked the > first nolan batman better, though, if only for its (only in > comparison) brevity. ``the dark knight'' packed a bit too much bang > for its buck - by the last half hour, i grew tired of tracking the > good guys versus the bad guys. which, now that i think about it, may > have been part of the point. Part of the point - I didn't have a problem with it being too long, but it seemed somewhat oddly structured, in that I kept thinking ah, we're approaching the end...only for it to go off on another plot segment. It all worked in the end, but I'd be curious to analyze the plot structure. Agree re Ledger - for such an over-the-top role, it was scarily persuasive. I also appreciated the rather chilly meta when the Joker says all he really wants is to enjoy the chaos...this after we the audience have been thrilling to explosions and car chases and, well, chaos. Hell of a lot subtler than Michael Haneke's _Funny Games_ and its sledgehammer-to-the-skull approach - and consequently, much more cutting, since you have to come to the realization yourself. PS: Lauren, since you're in Philadelphia, if you ever see M. Night Shyamalan around, kick him in the shins and tell him to figure out how to make movies again. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:26:47 -0400 From: "(0% rh)" Subject: Re: Today in history kevin says: > Shame they > won't be able to bring Ledger back for the next one - and they went & killed > off Harvey, too. What's up next, the Penguin, or John Leguizamo as the > Riddler? ``batman begins'' definitely pointed that the joker would be next. i didn't notice any (obvious) clues during ``the dark knight.'' regardless, i hope nolan is on board for that one. > No communication? That can be scary. A co-worker of mine was in the > Ukraine visiting family during that abortive coup when the army tried to > oust Gorbachev. She said things were very tense the whole time and she was > really glad to get back to the States. This time, of course, the shoe is on > a whole 'nother foot. Best wishes. i knew he would be out of touch during the summer, so i'm not surprised that i haven't heard from him. but i'm still worried - partly out of general compassion, but, i confess, part is that i want my teacher to get back safe and sound! (and, to make things a little more complicated, i'm his teaching assistant, and hoping my scholarship will be okay.) as ever, lauren - -- "people with opinions just go around bothering one another." -- the buddha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:30:58 -0700 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: Headline Of The Moment front-and-center in the *USA To-Day*, no less: "Can Phelps Ever Be Topped"!!! did i say "of the moment"? hell, that's (given the placement and venue) the motherfreakin' headline of *all time* if it's a tunafish sandwich. lord have mercy on my (and eb's) soul! . okay, here's a pet-peeve of mine; this seems as good a place as any to bring it up. why is the "cleansing" in "ethnic cleansing" never scare-quoted? has anybody ever seen it scare-quoted? thanks, michael. that's evocative. so's that! i can't decide what cracks me up more: the bush admin's hypocritical bleating about protecting national sovereignty and decrying violence; or the white house press corp's inability to recognise the hypocrisy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:33:53 -0400 From: "(0% rh)" Subject: Re: Today in history Sebastian says: > -- "(0% rh)" is rumored to have mumbled on 15. > August 2008 12:47:47 -0400 regarding Re: Today in history: > >> p.s. re: the georgian conflict. one of my professors (actually, the >> one of most influence) is at home in georgia this summer. i'm hoping >> that he and his family have been safe throughout the attacks. > > It was pretty weird following that situation by reading both German papers > and the NYT. While the US media (at least CNN and NYT) picked the Russians > as the bad guys pretty early on, the German media started out by portraying > the Georgians as the aggressors. There were even reports about ethnic > cleansings in Southern Ossetia by the Georgian army. At this point the media > here seem to agree with the US ones in that Russia went too far in its > retaliation, but I think there's still the general belief that Georgia > provoked the entire conflict. > > The only point I'm making here is that you can't trust anything you read or > see anywhere. :-( point taken. that's interesting, and a little creepy, how different the accounts are. all i know of georgia is from knowing my professor (although i confess i did a little background reading (so as not to appear totally oblivious to post-USSR history) before attending his class)), and my understanding is that the georgians are sort of the underdogs/black sheep of the region. but i do understand that my information and interests are biased. as ever, lauren - -- "people with opinions just go around bothering one another." -- the buddha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:34:39 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Hold Steady? If anyone's interested, _Stay Positive_ mp3 album is available today from Amazon for only 2 bucks. - - - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:50:13 -0400 From: "(0% rh)" Subject: Re: Today in history 2fs says: > Oh, I'm sure those folks are out there...although they were probably out > there way back for _Insomnia_ what with Al Pacino and Robin Williams and > all. i actually prefer the remake. the original is a bit too cold, even for my tastes. but it's probably just because of my general lack of taste ;) > How come Robin Williams is only convincing as an actor when he's playing a > psychotic nutjob? this is true. he completely annoys me when he's not playing a psychotic (``one-hour photo'' is another great robin williams' performance that's in this category.) > BTW, i enjoyed the movie very much. heath ledger was as entertaining >> as everyone has said (for once, i don't think the brilliance of his >> performance has been exaggerated by his death.) i actually liked the >> first nolan batman better, though, if only for its (only in >> comparison) brevity. ``the dark knight'' packed a bit too much bang >> for its buck - by the last half hour, i grew tired of tracking the >> good guys versus the bad guys. which, now that i think about it, may >> have been part of the point. > > > Part of the point - I didn't have a problem with it being too long, but it > seemed somewhat oddly structured, in that I kept thinking ah, we're > approaching the end...only for it to go off on another plot segment. It all > worked in the end, but I'd be curious to analyze the plot structure. that's an interesting point. i think my problem was related to this. i was actually really ready for the movie to end right when they showed the mayor in the hospital for the first time. > Agree re Ledger - for such an over-the-top role, it was scarily persuasive. > I also appreciated the rather chilly meta when the Joker says all he really > wants is to enjoy the chaos...this after we the audience have been thrilling > to explosions and car chases and, well, chaos. > > Hell of a lot subtler than Michael Haneke's _Funny Games_ and its > sledgehammer-to-the-skull approach - and consequently, much more cutting, > since you have to come to the realization yourself. haneke's a bit of a wild card for me. i'm SO interested in what i hear about his work, but i can't bring myself to watch of it because i figure it would just disturb me in a way i don't particular need to be disturbed. i did see ``cache'', and loved it, but that's the only one. the reviews of the remake of ``funny games'' were pretty rough. i'm curious whether you mean the original, or the remake, or (as i would presume) both. also, if you've seen any of his other films, what do you think of them? > PS: Lauren, since you're in Philadelphia, if you ever see M. Night Shyamalan > around, kick him in the shins and tell him to figure out how to make movies > again. i've heard that said. i think i'd have to get in the queue for that - his most recent one got a really bad ``score'' on cinematic.com (BTW, thanks for that site, eddie.) i think he actually hangs out in the northern suburbs. i'm in the western suburbs, but occasionally go to bucks county (i think that's where he's from, or at least where ``signs'' was filmed) so i'll keep an eye out. it's a shame because he gets some things really right. but the few things he gets wrong, he gets SO wrong. as ever, lauren - -- "people with opinions just go around bothering one another." -- the buddha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:52:41 -0400 From: "(0% rh)" Subject: Re: Today in history i say: > i've heard that said. i think i'd have to get in the queue for that - > his most recent one got a really bad ``score'' on cinematic.com (BTW, > thanks for that site, eddie.) i butchered that one. apologies; it's ``cin-o-matic'': http://www.cin-o-matic.com/ xo - -- "people with opinions just go around bothering one another." -- the buddha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:09:14 -0700 From: Carrie Galbraith Subject: Re: Today in history On Aug 15, 2008, at 2:50 PM, (0% rh) wrote: >> PS: Lauren, since you're in Philadelphia, if you ever see M. Night >> Shyamalan >> around, kick him in the shins and tell him to figure out how to >> make movies >> again. > > i've heard that said. i think i'd have to get in the queue for that - > his most recent one got a really bad ``score'' on cinematic.com (BTW, > thanks for that site, eddie.) i think he actually hangs out in the > northern suburbs. i'm in the western suburbs, but occasionally go to > bucks county (i think that's where he's from, or at least where > ``signs'' was filmed) so i'll keep an eye out. > He was filming "the Sixth Sense" while I was in grad school in Philly. It was fun biking past the downtown alleys which were taken over by the film crew and trying to glimpse of the action on the way to school. Didn't really even know what was going on - just the film students were all in a twitter - much like they were during the filming of "12 Monkeys." I was living in So. Philly - the Italian Market actually. Couldn't wait to head home to California but in retrospect, it's a great city in which to live. - - c "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. " - - Thomas Jefferson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 18:32:56 -0400 From: "(0% rh)" Subject: Re: half-remembered Robyn quote on cynicism Stewart says: > "Cynicism is comfortable ... it allows you to become the person you hate." > > Can someone please check? Very close...here's the exact quote: ``The problem with cynicism is it's always comfortable. And it gives you an excuse to then become what you despise.'' (now wondering if, when I write ``here's the quote'', I should skip the quote marks?) (now back to wondering what a scare-quote is.) > I think it's in the booklet that came with > the 2 disc "Soft Boys 1976-1981" set. Yes, it gave me an excuse to read it. I seemed to have given up reading liner notes around the time the LP started disappearing. as ever, lauren P.S. re: reading Robyn interviews: I like how, if I slow down my reading enough, I can hear the things Robyn says in his voice. - -- "people with opinions just go around bothering one another." -- the buddha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:12:36 -0700 From: Carrie Galbraith Subject: Re: Today in history, part 2 On Aug 15, 2008, at 2:33 PM, (0% rh) wrote: > Sebastian says: >> -- "(0% rh)" is rumored to have mumbled on >> 15. >> August 2008 12:47:47 -0400 regarding Re: Today in history: >> >>> p.s. re: the georgian conflict. one of my professors (actually, >>> the >>> one of most influence) is at home in georgia this summer. i'm >>> hoping >>> that he and his family have been safe throughout the attacks. >> >> It was pretty weird following that situation by reading both >> German papers >> and the NYT. While the US media (at least CNN and NYT) picked the >> Russians >> as the bad guys pretty early on, the German media started out by >> portraying >> the Georgians as the aggressors. There were even reports about ethnic >> cleansings in Southern Ossetia by the Georgian army. At this point >> the media >> here seem to agree with the US ones in that Russia went too far in >> its >> retaliation, but I think there's still the general belief that >> Georgia >> provoked the entire conflict. >> >> The only point I'm making here is that you can't trust anything >> you read or >> see anywhere. :-( > > point taken. that's interesting, and a little creepy, how different > the accounts are. > > all i know of georgia is from knowing my professor (although i confess > i did a little background reading (so as not to appear totally > oblivious to post-USSR history) before attending his class)), and my > understanding is that the georgians are sort of the underdogs/black > sheep of the region. but i do understand that my information and > interests are biased. > As a person who has been obsessed with Central and Eastern Europe for years, I have studied pretty extensively the history of the Caucasus. Georgia has been top on my list of places to go next for quite some time (with Armenia a close second). So I've been following this current state of affairs pretty closely. In order to get what seems like fair news I've been using CNN, Reuters, EuroNews, the BBC and the IHT. Still, I wish I read cyrillic and Georgian. I've been talking quite a bit with my Ukrainian nephew as well. I've tried to find press from the Russian pov but from all I have read, it seems the aggressors in this are the Russians, and have been since long before they sent in the military. They have been undermining the South Ossetian region for some time now, issuing Russian passports to Ossetians and allowing them to come and go freely within Russia. I don't know if it's retaliation for Georgia's "American-style democracy" or if it's a smoke screen for Russia to get its hands on the oil pipeline that runs through Georgia from the Caspian Sea to Turkey and carries 1% of the world's oil - a major oil conduit for Europe, or the gas pipeline that runs from Azerbaijian through Georgia to Turkey as well. They are both out of Russia's control completely. And Russia uses gas and energy exports to Europe as a way to stop pro-democracy ambitions in places like Ukraine and other former Soviet states. Russia also needs access to the Black Sea - and they've been at odds with Ukraine because of this. So their support of Abkhazia is understandable due to it's location. And it explains why they are blowing up Georgian Navy hardware and occupying Georgian ports. I've long thought the Black Sea would prove to be one of the most contentious parts of the world in all of this energy conflict. Why else would America build bases there (we now have a very large one in Romania near the Black Sea port of Constanta). I wouldn't be surprised if we negotiated another with Bulgaria. But considering that Bulgaria, Romania, Ukraine, Russia, Georgia and Turkey are all Black Sea countries, I can see it as a flash point. It's close enough to lob a missile or two at Iran even. And Romania and Bulgaria are now part of the EU. Turkey is lobbying to become a member. Ukraine and Georgia have petitioned to become part of NATO and Ukraine has its sights set on joining the EU someday. All of this must be pretty threatening to Russia and weakens its grip on the Black Sea region and it's control of European energy. Anyway, it looks to me to be more about a play for oil and gas and deep water port access on the part of Russia than about Ossetians getting to be Russians. Afterall, there is only one road into South Ossetia from (North Ossetia) Russia and it's impassable in the winter due to it's elevation in the Caucasus mountains. It could also be a play by Russia to stop further foreign investment in oil and gas possibilities in the Caspian region by causing it to become permanently unstable. Just how I'm reading it. - - c "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. " - - Thomas Jefferson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 19:16:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Headline Of The Moment On Fri, 15 Aug 2008, Stacked Crooked wrote: > okay, here's a pet-peeve of mine; this seems as good a place as any to > bring it up. why is the "cleansing" in "ethnic cleansing" never > scare-quoted? has anybody ever seen it scare-quoted? Interesting point. I don't recall ever seeing it in scare quotes either. If I have, it wasn't very often. My guess would be that people never use scare quotes because the term was invented by someone who was engaging in the activity, so it never had a non-evil context, and thus it doesn't need any further indication that the word "cleansing" is being misused. But on the other hand, the term Final Solution never appears in scare quotes either, and it must have been used in thousands of different contexts before the Nazis. Hmmm. Just checked the OED: the earliest cite they give for "ethnic cleansing" is a 1991 Washington Post article quoting Croatian officials accusing Serbs of ethnic cleansing. So presumably the term was already current in Serbo-Croatian at that point? - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 18:26:38 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Headline Of The Moment On 8/15/08, Christopher Gross wrote: > > On Fri, 15 Aug 2008, Stacked Crooked wrote: > > okay, here's a pet-peeve of mine; this seems as good a place as any to >> bring it up. why is the "cleansing" in "ethnic cleansing" never >> scare-quoted? has anybody ever seen it scare-quoted? > > But on the other hand, the term Final Solution never appears in scare > quotes either, and it must have been used in thousands of different contexts > before the Nazis. Hmmm. Such as the Sherlock Holmes story - which David Thomas of Pere Ubu says is the intended referent of the song... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:31:55 -0700 From: "kevin studyvin" Subject: Re: half-remembered Robyn quote on cynicism > P.S. re: reading Robyn interviews: I like how, if I slow down my > reading enough, I can hear the things Robyn says in his voice. > Yuh-huh, it occurs to me if he ever needed another line of work he could probably cash in as a voiceover guy in tee-vee commercials. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:37:50 -0700 From: "kevin studyvin" Subject: Re: Today in history > Anyway: if the whole "sellout" thing is dying the death, good. I mean, yes, > it's possible to try to sell out...but to be truly applicable, it needs to > include copping a genuinely popular trend, doing so with great insincerity, > and being nakedly eager for success. The term's spread so much that bands > get accused of "selling out" if, on their first release, there was 48 tons > of feedback and no actual notes and, on the second, there was an actual E > minor chord at one point. > > And as Norman Spinrad wrote in Bug Jack Barron, "The saddest thing in the world is when you finally decide to sell out and noone's buying." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:48:26 -0700 From: Carrie Galbraith Subject: And one last backup news piece Ukraine may be dragged into it after all. - - c "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. " - - Thomas Jefferson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:53:53 -0400 (EDT) From: djini@voicenet.com Subject: Re: is this thing on? Stacked Crooked wrote: > > > > > we're all too preoccupied with . > And wondering who really thinks it's a good idea to stripmine the Moon. Because *there's* a renewable resource that has no effect on our weather. Riiight. Also, over the last couple of weeks I read about 10 pounds of Derrick Jensen verbiage and depressed the hell out of myself. And others. I've been instructed by interested parties to read something funny for a change. Time to dust off The Fan Man! Jeanne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:56:16 +1200 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: REAP Jerry Wexler, 91 James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 23:19:36 -0700 From: "kevin studyvin" Subject: Re: is this thing on? On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 2:53 PM, wrote: > Stacked Crooked wrote: > > > > > > > > > we're all too preoccupied with >. > > > > And wondering who really thinks it's a good idea to stripmine the Moon. > Because > *there's* a renewable resource that has no effect on our weather. Riiight. > Also, over > the last couple of weeks I read about 10 pounds of Derrick Jensen verbiage > and depressed > the hell out of myself. And others. I've been instructed by interested > parties to read > something funny for a change. Time to dust off The Fan Man! > > Jeanne Kotzwinkle rocks. I recommend The Hot Jazz Trio too. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 16:00:23 -0400 From: ontario moe Subject: NEW on DIME: Robyn Hitchcock and Friends: 17 Nov. 2000 - The Point, Oxford, England, UK. (Fixed) http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=209991&hit=1 - ----- Forwarded message from DIME ----- A new torrent has been uploaded to DIME. Torrent: 209991 Title: Robyn Hitchcock and Friends: 17 Nov. 2000 - The Point, Oxford, England, UK. (Fixed) Size: 391.86 MB Category: Singer/Songwriter Uploaded by: ocelot Info hash: fc70e5f1cba362beb6dc45388dd98f8730ef882f Description - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robyn Hitchcock and Friends: Kimberley Rew, Patch Hannon, Matt Hughes Concert appearance: Friday 17 Nov. 2000 The Point, Oxford, England UK (This has now been fixed so that Track 26 is what it claims to be. Apologies for the inconvenience.) Lineage MD Master>Wavelab>Flac8 Audience Recording by Neil M. Mexican God Queen Elvis When I Was Dead The Philosopher's Stone The Cheese Alarm No, I Don't Remember Guildford Madonna of the Wasps Queen of Eyes America Dark Princess Somewhere Apart Antwoman Arms of Love Oceanside The Speed of Things You and Oblivion Beautiful Queen The Green Boy This has now been fixed so that Track 26 is what it claims to be. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 21:40:28 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: initial Luminous queries 1) What happened to "Dwarfbeat"? 2) Okay, so I guess there's no better place for the four extra 1989 live tracks than on Hen...but given that those tracks were recorded June 15, 1989, at the Ritz in NYC...and given that the live version of "Veins of the Queen" on "Bad Case..." 2 was recorded at the Ritz in NYC in 1989...aren't the odds pretty fair that's the same show - or at least close enough that why isn't "Veins" on this version of "Hen" along with the other '89 live tracks? (Yes, there's room on the CD) I'm sure others will note other key omissions... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #685 ********************************