From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #607 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, May 21 2008 Volume 16 : Number 607 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: crossing two threads. ["kevin studyvin" ] RE: Er, can you say, "FUCK THE DEMOCRATS!"? ["Stacked Crooked" ] Re: crossing two threads. [Rex ] RE: crossing two threads. ["Bachman, Michael" ] Band name of the moment! ["Stacked Crooked" ] Band name of the moment! ["Stacked Crooked" ] Re: crossing two threads. [2fs ] Re: crossing two threads ["Laura Golias" ] Re: Band name of the moment! [2fs ] Re: the ongoing local crisis [Rex ] Re: crossing two threads ["kevin studyvin" ] Re: the ongoing local crisis [Michael Sweeney ] Re: sickyboy 7" (plus radio question) [Tom Clark ] From a Browncoats posting - Tonight Live in San Jose [Carrie Galbraith ] GOLDMINE REVIEW Robyn Hitchcock I Wanna Go Backwards Yep Roc (Yep 2610) 5 CDs [HwyCDRrev] RE: Er, can you say, "FUCK THE DEMOCRATS!"? ["Marc Alberts" Subject: Re: crossing two threads. > You could also try it with album titles. "Snakes! Tarantula" and "Snakes > for Sofia" would be pretty good, but you'd just have to love "Snakes Snake > Diamond Role". > Or -- Snakes On Blonde Snakes Island Baby Snakes Of Troy Snakes Buy a Thrill Snakes Yerbouti Snakes, Kiss Me, Kiss Me Snakes Don't Fail Me Now ad nauseam. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 08:36:35 -0700 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: RE: Er, can you say, "FUCK THE DEMOCRATS!"? it'd be a violation of the geneva conventions' prohibition against attacks upon civilians. *perhaps* the use of so-called "bunker-busters" (AKA "useable" nukes) wouldn't be, if there would truly be no civilian casualties or ecological effects. highly doubtful that this is the case, i should think. iran has never been in violation of the NPT. . of course, it's argued that the iranians are outwitting the inspectors -- but i think that everybody (not including the mainstream media, natch) has at the least learned to not trust the cheney-ites more than it trusts the inspectors. it looks like, in both cases here, you mean "authorised" rather than "justified"? otherwise, i'm having difficulty parsing this sentence. *any* first-strike (unless authorised by the security council) -- nuclear- or non- -- is not only defined as a war crime, it's defined as *the supreme war crime*, from which all others spring. indeed, it's considered the *single most egregious* violation of international law. hell, i didn't think she was even referring to a nuclear strike at all -- although i can see how one would read it that way, given the similarity to language that the bush administration has used. anyway, . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 08:55:48 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: Er, can you say, "FUCK THE DEMOCRATS!"? On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Stacked Crooked wrote: > strikes are not to my knowledge included as a crime against humanity in any > international treaty.> > > it'd be a violation of the geneva conventions' prohibition against attacks > upon civilians. I seem to be more and more preoccupied each year with what's going on in the average person's mind about the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. It seems pretty clear that at some point a majority of humans will come to believe that they, erm, weren't that cool of a thing to do... I'm just curious as to how and when that will be articulated (cf. slavery). np. Charlotte Hatherley, "Snakes Will Fade" - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:55:01 -0400 From: "Laura Golias" Subject: Re: crossing two threads. While that is awesome, I discovered that "Zombies" works just as well. Zombies at Tiffany's Zombies In The Mist Wellm okay, maybe it doesn't work as well as snakes, but I don't like snakes. I do have a bit of an obsession with zombies. I think all movies would be better with zombies. Imagine the possibilities..........Titanic, Dances With Wolves, Forrest Gump.........I probably would have actually liked those if there were zombies. Laura "Zombie" Golias gruntydawarthawg@verizon.net > Re: The Michael Moore game > > Well, that';s OK if you haven't had a former political leader called > Michael Moore (thankfully he's usually known as Mike). > > However, given the recent talk of serpents as in a certain song's lyrics, > perhaps you may be intrigued by a pointless buut fun game for long car > journeys . > > A year or so back, I went into a video store where I found two rather > bored salespeople playing "Snakes". One of them had been thinking about > the movie title "Snakes on a plane" and realised that loads of movie > titles could be improved by replacing the first word with "Snakes". > > Some example titles included: > > Snakes with the wind > Snakes of the Caribbean > Snakes, actually > Snakes in love > Snakes of New York > Snakes on a hot tin roof > and, of course, Snakes like it hot > > James ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 09:39:25 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: crossing two threads. On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 7:55 AM, Laura Golias wrote: > While that is awesome, I discovered that "Zombies" works just as well. > Zombies at Tiffany's > Zombies In The Mist > Wellm okay, maybe it doesn't work as well as snakes, but I don't like > snakes. Zombies vs. Ninjas vs. Pirates: Who Would Win? I think that in any scenario other than a naval engagement, the pirates get creamed. Zombies would just keep coming no matter how many musket balls or cutlass swings any pirate could reasonably accomplish before the zombie got to his delicious brain. Ninjas, however, are faster, so they might have time to slice the slow-moving zombie into component parts too small to have the ability to move on their own in any meaningful fashion. But that's only sword-ninjas... the ones with just those wussy throwing stars would be pretty much screwed. The ultimate winners would therefore, naturally, be snakes. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 13:00:54 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: crossing two threads. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org [mailto:owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org] On Behalf Of kevin studyvin Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:09 PM To: michael wells Cc: grutness@slingshot.co.nz; fegmaniax@smoe.org Subject: Re: crossing two threads. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 9:01 PM, michael wells wrote: > > >title "Snakes on a plane" and realised that loads of movie titles > > could > >be > >improved > > > >Uh oh... > > > >The Snakes Witch Project > >Snake Hand Luke > >Snakes Having a Baby > >A Snake at the Opera > >Snaking the Monkey >> >Snakes Of Wrath! The Maltese Snake Reservoir Snakes The Snakes of War A Man Called Snake All Snakes Go To Heaven! Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:18:58 -0700 From: "Benjamin Lukoff" Subject: Israel, copyeditors (though not Israeli copyeditors) > From: "Stacked Crooked" > ~ suggesting that iran is a greater threat to the region than are the > united states and israel immediately disqualifies pelosi from being taken > seriously. > This is probably a dumb question to be asking of you, but how exactly is Israel a threat to the region? > From: Rex > > On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 6:03 PM, gaseous clay wrote: > > > *Robyn Hitchcock to release 2nd in series of career documenting box > > sets, out August 5th* > > > > The second in a series of Robyn Hitchcock retrospective box sets from > > Yep Roc, > > Two references to this being part of a series... that seems to imply this > isn't the last one. Has there been some kind of breakthrough on the A&M > front? > > (Or is it perfectly okay to be "second in a series of two"? Either way, > Yep > Roc's copy editor still needs an assistant or something.) > I think a series requires at least three entries. But what makes you think Yep Roc has a copyeditor at all?! :| - --Ben, a copyeditor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 11:51:59 -0700 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: RE: Er, can you say, "FUCK THE DEMOCRATS!"? wanted to clarify that while iran has never been in violation of the NPT; the united states, pakistan, and india (and others) not only are currently in violation, but have been for years...yet there have not been any security council resolutions demanding their compliance. (gee, wonder how that could happen?) israel, while in violation, is not a signatory. huhn, this gives rise to a most obvious resolution to the iran "crisis": iran needs must only withdraw from the NPT, at which point the security council resolution would of course be withdrawn as well, and the "crisis" would be at an end. right? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 11:51:59 -0700 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: RE: Er, can you say, "FUCK THE DEMOCRATS!"? wanted to clarify that while iran has never been in violation of the NPT; the united states, pakistan, and india (and others) not only are currently in violation, but have been for years...yet there have not been any security council resolutions demanding their compliance. (gee, wonder how that could happen?) israel, while in violation, is not a signatory. huhn, this gives rise to a most obvious resolution to the iran "crisis": iran needs must only withdraw from the NPT, at which point the security council resolution would of course be withdrawn as well, and the "crisis" would be at an end. right? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 19:01:44 +0000 From: Michael Sweeney Subject: Re: crossing two threads >A Snake at the Opera ...Even better: Snake Night at the Opera Also... Snakes From New York Snakes to the Future Friday Night Snakes Snake's Choice Snakes of the Lost Ark Snakes by Northwest Snakes Almighty Snake Times at Ridgemont High ...and, of course... The Fabulous Snaker Boys Michael "Also ducking" Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ Give to a good cause with every e-mail. Join the im Initiative from Microsoft. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?souce=EML_WL_ GoodCause ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 12:10:52 -0700 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: Band name of the moment! well, should-be, that is. from : "Blanket Of Vog"!!! is that the fucking should-be band-name of all-time, or what??? er, and at the risk of making myself look even stoopider than i made myself look with "verdigris", "vog" is *another* word i'd never encountered until now... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 12:10:52 -0700 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: Band name of the moment! well, should-be, that is. from : "Blanket Of Vog"!!! is that the fucking should-be band-name of all-time, or what??? er, and at the risk of making myself look even stoopider than i made myself look with "verdigris", "vog" is *another* word i'd never encountered until now... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:25:53 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: crossing two threads. On 5/21/08, Rex wrote: > > On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 7:55 AM, Laura Golias < > gruntydawarthawg@verizon.net> > wrote: > > > > While that is awesome, I discovered that "Zombies" works just as well. > > Zombies at Tiffany's > > Zombies In The Mist > > Zombies vs. Ninjas vs. Pirates: Who Would Win? I think this has potential to be a classic tripartite undecidability matrix. Whuh-huh? Y'know - like rock/paper/scissors. Zombies beat Ninjas cuz they can't be killed by throwing stars, numchucks, and the like...but lose to Pirates because Pirates have swords. Ninjas beat pirates because they're stealthier than pirates (but lost to zombies). Etc. If you don't believe me I'll build a diamond scissors and cut your rock in two, or obliterate your paper with a rock by means of friction and a rough, hard surface. Look: if my ZNP trio is arbitrary, surely "paper covers rock" is the lamest kind of "beating" ever. I mean, c'mon - it's not as if rocks are parrots and, thinking it's night-time, will then fall asleep, allowing you to smother them or something. And if paper can cover a rock, why pray tell can it not cover a scissors...so long as the paper sneaks up all quiet-like on the scissors and catches it unaware. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:25:25 -0400 From: "Laura Golias" Subject: Re: crossing two threads 3 Snakes And A Baby. (sounds better than 3 Men And A Snake) Snake Wars That's all I have for now. Laura Golias gruntydawarthawg@verizon.net > >A Snake at the Opera > > ...Even better: > > Snake Night at the Opera > > > Also... > > Snakes From New York > Snakes to the Future > Friday Night Snakes > Snake's Choice > Snakes of the Lost Ark > Snakes by Northwest > Snakes Almighty > Snake Times at Ridgemont High > > ...and, of course... > > The Fabulous Snaker Boys > > > Michael "Also ducking" Sweeney > _________________________________________________________________ > Give to a good cause with every e-mail. Join the im Initiative from > Microsoft. > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?souce=EML_WL_ GoodCause ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:28:06 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Band name of the moment! QQF "vog"? On 5/21/08, Stacked Crooked wrote: > > well, should-be, that is. from > : "Blanket > Of Vog"!!! is that the fucking should-be band-name of all-time, or what??? > > er, and at the risk of making myself look even stoopider than i made myself > look with "verdigris", "vog" is *another* word i'd never encountered until > now... > - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 13:38:43 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: the ongoing local crisis To add a little work-related randomness to the process, here are the titles that have crossed my desk today, inna snakes stylee: Snakes from the Darkside Snakes of Dorian Grey Snakes Dracula Snakes Trek Generations Snakes Neutron: Boy Genius Snakes Sky Snakes to Black Snakes Dearest Snakes of the Body Snatchers Snakes Commandments ... and several different films called just plain Snakes. I'm not sure what to do about titles starting with "The" or "A". It doesn't seem right to transform the simple article into "Snakes" ("Snakes Untouchables"), but I also don't like keeping the article and subbing in the "Snakes" for the second word. It wasn't "The Snakes on a Plane", so "The Snakes Who Fell to Earth" looks just slightly off-mission to me. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 13:42:52 -0700 From: "kevin studyvin" Subject: Re: crossing two threads >> The Fabulous Snaker Boys >> >> That may be the funniest one so far. Also I thought of another album title - - the Beatles' first masterpiece, Rubber Snakes. Off to physical therapy now - ouch. np Jackson Browne, Late For the Snakes ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 20:57:31 +0000 From: Michael Sweeney Subject: Re: the ongoing local crisis ...When my GF Corinne heard of our most recent shenanigans, she wished to add: Snakes the Clown Snakes: Rattle and Hum ...and I wanted to add (from the world of football nicknames): Snakes "The Snake" Stabler Michael "N.P. Roxy Music, 'Snakes Plain' -- ha!" Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr esh_family_safety_052008 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 14:21:38 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: sickyboy 7" (plus radio question) On May 13, 2008, at 10:38 AM, JBJ wrote: > I played this on my new radio show yesterday morning, and made sure > to burn a disc so I could isolate it and make an mp3 out of it. > Eddie, I'll make a flac for you at another time, when I can actually > clean the vinyl first and use a needle that I know the history of. > Cuz at KBOO yesterday, I saw the needle, and the damage done! (pun > totally intended) > > http://www.tuthorse.net/sickyboy.mp3 > > I'm curious how many fegs either have had or currently have radio > shows. Given the breadth and depth of musical knowledge so visible > on this list, I'm guessing there's quite a few. I just wanted to put in a plug for JBJ's radio show. I've been listening to Monday morning's edition all week and its been great. Extra points for the Malkmus track! - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:49:15 -0700 From: Carrie Galbraith Subject: From a Browncoats posting - Tonight Live in San Jose Just posted on the SF Browncoats group: On WEDNESDAY NIGHT, MAY 21st, Christian Kane will be playing live in SAN JOSE, CA at RODEO CLUB. This is a KRTY Listener Event. Christian will join Jimmy Wayne and David Nail for this event. Brian Nutter (of Keith Urbanbs band) will be supporting Christian on guitar and vocals. - 18 and over only. - Info at The Rodeo Club (www.therodeoclub.com) or call KRTY at (408) 575-KRTY (5789). You can print out FREE tickets at www.ktry.com or they are $10 at the door. This is Christian Kane (from Angel) and he is doing a tour from SF to LA. Link to radio shows he is doing in CA: - - c np - Leonard Cohen, Ten New Snakes ************************************** Questions are a burden for others. Answers are a prison for oneself. ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:58:45 -0700 From: Carrie Galbraith Subject: Re: Band name of the moment! On May 21, 2008, at 12:10 PM, Stacked Crooked wrote: : "Blanket Of Vog"!!! is that the fucking should-be band-name of all-time, or what??? er, and at the risk of making myself look even stoopider than i made myself look with "verdigris", "vog" is *another* word i'd never encountered until now... And why would you if you never visited or lived in Hawaii? Or on Maui in particular, who get the brunt of it. I'm not at all certain what it is called elsewhere but it always seemed like a "local" term in the islands. The one year I lived in Lahaina we dealt with the double-whammy of vog and, during certain times of the year, the heavy ash-fall from the burning of the sugar cane (although I doubt they have the sugar cane problems anymore - it's all big houses and condos now). On Oahu where I lived about 10 months, the worst we dealt with (on the Honolulu side) was the occasional Tsunami warning from earthquakes in Japan. - - c - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------ "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 21:09:14 EDT From: HwyCDRrev@aol.com Subject: GOLDMINE REVIEW Robyn Hitchcock I Wanna Go Backwards Yep Roc (Yep 2610) 5 CDs GOLDMINE REVIEW Robyn Hitchcock I Wanna Go Backwards Yep Roc (Yep 2610) 5 CDs Grade: **** http://www.goldminemag.com/article/Reviews_Chuck_Berry_King_Crimson_Robyn_Hitc hcock/ No one can ever accuse Robyn Hitchcock of being anything less that an unrepentant over-achiever. All the evidence needed comes courtesy of I Wanna Go Backwards, an ambitious five-disc box set that retraces three of Hitchcockbs earliest albums and tacks on a generous array of bonus tracks in the process, not to mention an additional double disc of rarities and outtakes exclusive to this collection. Being the first phase in yet another overhaul of Hitchcockbs catalog, it forces ardent Hitchcock completists to ponder the possibility of acquiring further editions of albums they may already own in order to obtain nearly two dozen otherwise-unobtainable gems. Despite the replication, itbs ultimately worth the investment, given the opportunity to sample more of the quirkiness so essential to Hitchcockbs DNA. Black Snake Diamond Role sets the standard, a brash combination of tuneful melodies (first track, bThe Man Who Invented Himselfb provides an apt, upbeat introduction), arched psychedelia and inexplicable weirdness. As Hitchcockbs maiden excursion following the dissolution of The Soft Boys, it varies little from the jangly retro pop at the core of that bandbs signature sound. Kinetic rockers like bMeatb and bI Watch The Carsb keep things grounded b sort of, anyway b while the eight add-ons nearly double the length of the original disc. Theybre a varied bunch, from the evocative imagery evoked by bIt Was The Nightb and the lazy back-porch ballad bGive Me A Spanner Ralphb to the strange storybook narrative bHappy The Golden Princeb and the groovy bGrooving On A Inner Plane.b The latter, a nascent attempt at rap and hip hop, clearly shows that while he gave due homage to predecessors like Syd Barrett, John Lennon and Captain Beefheart, Hitchcock was also b in his odd, eccentric and unlikely way b clearly ahead of his time. Hitchcock also may have been something of a seer when he unleashed his initial acoustic set, I Often Dream Of Trains. Recorded almost entirely solo, it qualifies as one of the first of what would later be deemed bunpluggedb offerings. Yet, despite its sparse trappings, itbs seeped in imagery and invention thatbs both surreal and sublime, a bizarre blend of Syd Barrett and Nick Drake peering through a stark, spooky ambiance. Hitchcock didnbt let the lack of instrumental accoutrement limit his parameters; songs like bSometimes I Wish I Was A Pretty Girlb evoked a vision of masturbatory delights, while the psycho-babble encrypted in bUncorrected Personality Traitsb and bFurry Green Atom Bowlb further affirmed his penchant for wacky rumination. Far more effective, at least in terms of mingling melody with mayhem, are bSounds Great When Youbre Dead,b an exceptional acoustic rocker, and bTrams Of Old London,b a song thatbs part tribute, part travelog that also finds him waxing reflectively on his hometown. Already an ample package in its original format, an additional 10 tracks, all in acoustic mode and representing varying degrees of merit and strangeness, bring Trainbs count up to a hefty two-dozen entries. Released nearly five years later, Eye was an apt sequel to Trains, similarly solo and equally obtuse. More so than before, therebs a demo-like quality to the set, a feeling that these were sketches for songs that were destined to be fully framed at some point later on. Naturally, it was teeming with enticing melodies; the stately instrumental bChinese Water Python,b the lonely, nostalgic bLinctus Howeb and the soothing b Queen Elvis IIb again attest to Hitchcockbs gift of caress. However, he also showed his willingness to plunge headfirst into allegory, as evidenced by the historical discourse, bCynthia Markb (a pointed barb denouncing Britainbs attempts to appease Hitler) and his further fascination with transgender desire and the trappings of fame via bQueen Elvis.b Edging away from his oddball stance, the earnestly strummed bBeautiful Girl,b a dire bCenturyb and the gorgeous ballad bThe Beauty of Earlbs Courtb suggest a more sobering stance and the sense that Hitchcock was ready to assume a headier poise. It speaks volumes that a good portion of the rarities set is easily as impressive as the tracks tapped for the actual albums. Indeed, the bonus double disc, pointedly titled When Thatcher Mauled Britain, boasts not only a stunning amount of extras and add-ons but several worthy keepers as well. Interspersed among the usual wacky interludes are lovely ballads like bBirdsheadb and b Raymond Chandler Evening,b a modest little rocker bCaptain Dryb and a radiant alternative take on bQueen Elvis.b However, in Hitchcockbs hands, even a straight blues ramble can convey insurgent intentions. bIf I was a hairless spinster covered in festering boils/Would you make love to me or would you recoil?b he croons convincingly on bI Got A Message For You.b Although instrumentally unadorned, When Thatcher Mauled Britain makes an ideal companion piece to You & Oblivion, the Rhino rarities disc that previewed some of these same selections. In addition to the bounty of music b well more than 100 songs in total, half of them bonus tracks b the packaging is a plus. Reconfigured as digipacks, the albums fit snugly in a slender box that saves space on the shelves and condenses the collection (The reissues of the original albums also are available separately). Hitchcockbs occasional liner notes provide historical context, but the lack of consistent track-by-track detail and analysis will leave even the most ardent Hitchcock scholar bewildered as to origin and circumstance. However thatbs an incidental detail; Hitchcockbs prolific prowess makes I Wanna Go Backwards all the more reason to look ahead. www.yeproc.com b Lee Zimmerman **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 18:46:19 -0700 From: "Marc Alberts" Subject: RE: Er, can you say, "FUCK THE DEMOCRATS!"? > First, this is not correct. Evading the IAEA is a violation of the NNPT. Your blogger source disagrees with other groups, such as the Federation of American Scientists, the group responsible in the US for probably the best non-partisan analysis of nuclear weapons issues. In June and November of 2003, for example, the IAEA publicly reported that Iran was in violation, and as the NNPT states that the IAEA is the responsible body for determining compliance that means that Iran was in violation. http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/nuke/ Most reasonable people would conclude that if "corrective actions" were required in order to comply with a law that, prosecuted or simply warned, the law was broken. In the case of Iran, the "corrective actions" that took place required Iran to agree to special extra-treaty investigation procedures stricter than what other countries have to do, and they have violated those protocols as well, which allows your blogger to state that they haven't violated the treaty but merely haven't complied with the additional protocols. This is pure sophistry, as the reason those protocols were enacted (and, by the way, evading IAEA investigators in the first place is a violation of the NNPT. Check Article III, Paragraph 1, which states the verification requirement) was because Iran was determined to have violations in the first place. > > wanted to clarify that while iran has never been in violation of the > NPT; > the united states, pakistan, and india (and others) not only are > currently > in violation, but have been for years...yet there have not been any > security council resolutions demanding their compliance. (gee, wonder > how > that could happen?) I have never seen any sane analysis that suggests the US is in violation in the sense that the IAEA has made that determination. I have seen screeds that suggest that the US is in violation of Article VI, which states: "Each of the Parties to the Treaty undertakes to pursue negotiations in good faith on effective measures relating to cessation of the nuclear arms race at an early date and to nuclear disarmament, and on a Treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control." The US engaged in SALT and other treaties in good faith very soon after the ratification of the NNPT, and has had ongoing talks for decades on disarmament. The sticking point has always been that the other weapons parties tend to not want the same verification standards required for "strict and effective international control" that the US wants and vice versa, which means that none of the sides can agree to the new treaty terms. Talks are essentially perpetual, but haven't made real progress for quite a while (I'm thinking the Clinton first term, but I would have to look it up and don't have time). There have been other, more sensible objections of US policy in terms of NATO sharing of nuclear weapons, but as those weapons remain 100% in US control with the intention that they would only be transferred to the other party (say, Belgium) in the case of nuclear war, in which case the NNPT wouldn't hold. I'm not sure how India and Pakistan can be in violation of the treaty, though--they're not signatories just as Israel is not (which you duly note below). > > israel, while in violation, is not a signatory. huhn, this gives rise > to a > most obvious resolution to the iran "crisis": iran needs must only > withdraw > from the NPT, at which point the security council resolution would of > course be withdrawn as well, and the "crisis" would be at an end. > right? Yup. Here is what the treaty says (Article X, Paragraph 1): "Each Party shall in exercising its national sovereignty have the right to withdraw from the Treaty if it decides that extraordinary events, related to the subject matter of this Treaty, have jeopardized the supreme interests of its country. It shall give notice of such withdrawal to all other Parties to the Treaty and to the United Nations Security Council three months in advance. Such notice shall include a statement of the extraordinary events it regards as having jeopardized its supreme interests." I'm not sure why Iran doesn't withdraw, personally. My guess is that there are other trade agreements tied o the NNPT that encourage countries to withdraw only when they are more advanced and ready to actually do test detonations. Marc ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #607 ********************************