From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #510 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, February 20 2008 Volume 16 : Number 510 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: whoops [2fs ] Re: Station to Station [HwyCDRrev@aol.com] suddenly [2fs ] Re: suddenly [Rex ] Re: unREAP: Nick Drake Lives On [Rex ] Re: unREAP: Nick Drake Lives On [Rex ] Re: Jabberwocky, revisited ["Stacked Crooked" ] Re: unREAP: Nick Drake Lives On [Rex ] Re: Station to Station ["vivien lyon" ] a sports rant (no RH or Buffy content whatsover, but a little Joss Whedon at the end) [Jill Brand ] Re: Jabberwocky, revisited [Tom Clark ] Re: whoops [Benjamin Lukoff ] Re: Station to Station [The Great Quail ] Re: whoops ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Bronco Billy (zero RH) ["kevin studyvin" ] Re: a sports rant (no RH or Buffy content whatsover, but a little Joss Whedon at the end) [2fs ] Re: whoops [2fs ] Re: whoops [Rex ] REAP [2fs ] Re: whoops [Benjamin Lukoff ] Re: Bronco Billy (zero RH) [Tom Clark ] Re: a sports rant turned to a Whedon rant, turned to a BSG rant - surprise surprise surprise [2fs ] Re: a sports rant turned to a Whedon rant, turned to a BSG rant - surprise surprise surprise [Rex Subject: Re: whoops On 2/20/08, Rex wrote: > > > > I just can't get enough of the phrase "World's Largest Christ". Sounds > like > a challenge... I bet we could build a bigger Christ... out of cheese, or > something. Wouldn't last long and it would reek towards the end, but > still, > for one shining moment, we would've had the World's Largest Christ. Not to mention, I believe, the source for '90s recording artist MC 900 Ft. Jesus... You also have to wonder if Teh Redeemer ever gets pissed about all those > really big Buddhas all over the place... Nah - J. and the Buddha go way back. J. does like to tease Gauty about his weight, though. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:08:31 EST From: HwyCDRrev@aol.com Subject: Re: Station to Station yes - i remember the quote more than covers i think it was in the book Bowie : Illustrated Record which i do not own _http://www.illustrated-db-discography.nl/Compi.htm#Changes%20LP_ (http://www.illustrated-db-discography.nl/Compi.htm#Changes%20LP) _http://www.illustrated-db-discography.nl/Album2.htm#Station%20LP_ (http://www.illustrated-db-discography.nl/Album2.htm#Station%20LP) In a message dated 2/20/2008 12:02:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, craigie@gmail.com writes: OK, Low, STS, and ...? Changesonebowie? **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:13:17 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: suddenly ...I started writing Beck lyrics. Drip-dry modem in a wet dream parking lot Gettin' strangled in the tangle of a carburetor hum Flash flood humping in a mousehole packet With a Krispy Kreme coffee and a paper bag bum Okay, I'll stop now. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:28:31 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: suddenly On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 9:13 AM, 2fs wrote: > ...I started writing Beck lyrics. > > Drip-dry modem in a wet dream parking lot > Gettin' strangled in the tangle of a carburetor hum > Flash flood humping in a mousehole packet > With a Krispy Kreme coffee and a paper bag bum > Look, guys-- a Scientologist! Attack! - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:30:09 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: unREAP: Nick Drake Lives On On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 9:04 AM, 2fs wrote: > On 2/20/08, HwyCDRrev@aol.com wrote: > > > > _http://crawdaddy.wolfgangsvault.com/Article.aspx?id=5564_ > > (http://crawdaddy.wolfgangsvault.com/Article.aspx?id=5564)= > > > > Point-belaboring: the article is credited to someone calling themselves > "j. > poet." > > "j. poet"!?! > > In the timeless words of Bugs Bunny, "what a maroon." Not to mention, an imbezzle. - -j. achmioff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:32:20 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: unREAP: Nick Drake Lives On Incidentally, the gmail sidebar ads to this thread as it stands are worth a peak: > "The OC" T-shirts > The OC lives on with cool OC tees and apparel. We're obsessed! > www.obsethed.com > Elderly Instruments > Banjos in every price range - - most qualifying for Free Shipping > www.elderly.com > Artwork by Grace Slick > Art by Jefferson Airplane Vocalist Buy Online or call at (877)ART-0319 > www.gallery-319.com > Your Record Deal Is Here > A&R Staff Listening Right Now Record Companies Listening Now > www.professionalears.com Looks like I'm set on every front that really matters! - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:36:20 -0800 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: Re: Jabberwocky, revisited <> very much so -- especially the more wilco-y selections. speaking of whom: if you are a fan of the rock and/or the roll, do not fail to grab the torrents from the five-night stand at the riviera in chicago. each of the first four have already been upped in superior quality recordings; as will, presumably, tonight's fifth. they're *really* on top of their game right now. just finished this new replacements oral history. pretty good read. tom c., take heed of the following anecdote: >>P. D. Larson: Pete Buck loved Minneapolis, and whenever he had time, hed come and hang out. And one night there was something going on at First Avenue, and everybody was pretty lit up and ended up in the womens bathroom. One of the bands many female admirers did the, "Let me put make-up on you." At that time, glam wasnt really in vogue, and your basic indie band was into flannel. And this was also a time when, if you were crossing over from the Entry to the main room, you risked getting your ass kicked for, you know, Hey, fag." And lo and behold, here come Paul and Peter walking around like no big deal, like Alice Cooper in 1972. Well, within a half hour the eyeliner and mascara starts running and they both look like hell. Kinda cool hell, but hell. So after the bar, we decide to go to my house over Northeast [Minneapolis] to listen to records and drink, but beforehand we stopped at White Castle on Central Avenue. It was 1:45 in the morning, and we walk in there and its rush hour. As Im walking up to the counter, it suddenly dawns on me that Paul and Peter are still in costume. And this was two hours later, they looked even worse and were even three more sheets to the wind, and at this time Northeast was not the hip place it is now, but more like headbanger/heavy-metal territory. So right away it was, "Who are you? Whats your problem? Hey, faggot." And Paul was not terribly confrontational, but Peter for some reason, who was bigger than Paul, he was taking umbrage to some of the comments directed towards him. Then he started talking, and he had a fairly noticeable Georgia accent, and that caused some friction as well. Next thing I know, its rumble in White Castle. Theres swearing and voices raising and people being pushed and panicky-looking employees behind the counter reaching for the phone. And Im standing there going, "Well, I could run out the door and pretend it never happened, and Id be responsible for two of the key figures of 80s independent rock getting killed." But I corralled em and fortunately got em out of there. I distinctly remember dragging Buck towards the car. I mean, he wanted to go. He was screaming, Youre lucky...*youre lucky*!" We went back to my house and listened to Alex Chilton records or something until the next afternoon.<< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:39:02 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: unREAP: Nick Drake Lives On Replying to myself yet again for the hat trick: On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Rex wrote: > Incidentally, the gmail sidebar ads to this thread as it stands are worth > a peak: > ... or peek. Or, hell, pique. That's how much I care. - -Rex np. "In Yer Face", 808 State, the asskickingness of which refuses to diminish with the decades ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:40:55 -0800 From: "vivien lyon" Subject: Re: Station to Station The Tree of Life* **is* a spaceship. At least, it is in Dan Simmon's Hyperion. On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 12:56 AM, lep wrote: > > > i'm confused. the tree of life is hidden in a spaceship? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:59:29 -0500 (EST) From: Jill Brand Subject: a sports rant (no RH or Buffy content whatsover, but a little Joss Whedon at the end) Michael Wells responded weeks later to my comments on the Patriots and mused: "My take is that if they had come out and at least pretended to be sorry, it would have subsided pretty quickly. But taking on the holier-than-thou "we'll show you it wasn't the film (but maybe it was)" attitude because they were caught, and then rolling up the 4 points a game just pissed everyone off. Any team that can make the Tom Coughlin and the Giants look like good guys has done something truly special!" I don't completely agree with you. People would have been rooting against the Pats this year anyway. People hate Belichick because he isn't Tony Dungy. He's cold and calculating, and he doesn't give a flying fuck about what the press thinks. On youtube, there is, however, a cuddly old clip from his Cleveland days in which he shows people how to make a PBJ on raisin bread; he is quite adorable in that. On one of the sports radio stations (WEEI), he is a regular guest once a week in the afternoon and talks to the host and two former players (Fred Smerlas and Steve Deossie, whose soon, ironically, was a rookie for the Giants this year and helped to sack Brady at the end of the game), and BB is extremely personable, articulate, and funny. But I digress. Back in 2001, everyone loved the Pats' story. Now, everyone (except for Pats fans) is sick to death of the Patriots, their relative success, their single-mindedness, and the exquisite beauty of Tom Brady. Tom Brady is David Watts (sorry, non Kinks fans). I can guarantee you that I'd hate them (although I'd still think Brady was exquisitely beautiful) if they weren't my team. And Michael, you'd adore them if they were yours. As for the running up the points bit (did you mean 4 or did you mean 40?), that is total nonsense. Has anyone ever accused Peyton Manning of running up the score? How about the year of his "gaudy numbers" (I had never heard that expression before 2004, but then that's all I heard)? No. This is professional sports!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! These people are being paid MILLIONS of dollars to do exactly that - run up the score. Even soccer moms know, after their kid has finished 8th grade, that the other coach isn't going to tell his players to kick only with their weaker foot or to touch the ball five times before trying to score when they have a sizable lead. Would it have been less embarrassing for the other team if the Pats had gotten to the 4 yard line and then kicked a field goal? At least by attempting to score a TD, they gave the other teams' defenses the opportunity to do the job that they were being paid to do - fucking defend the red zone (more exclamation marks are warranted, but I'll resist). Or maybe they should have simply handed the ball to the other team and said, "Oh, here. Would you like the ball now? I'm going to play with the finger paints." Come on. I don't mean to be sounding angry. Well, maybe I do. It seems insane to me that people are talking about hurt feelings while discussing the most violent of the popular sports. Frankly, I often reproach myself for liking football. And I'll freely admit, once more, that if I saw another team do to us what the Pats did to, say, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, or Washington (and believe me, since 1960, Pats fans have seen lots of teams do this to our guys), I'd hate their fucking guts. It's normal. But I don't think that contrition on the part of the Pats was going to make a difference. I don't hate the Giants. They were the underdogs, and no one thought they could do what they did (though I'm glad that Jeremy Shockey didn't get to play). I *do* however eternally hate the Yankees...which is kind of like hating the Pats...which is a very uncomfortable position for me to be in. BTW, I am originally from New York, which makes all of my sports loyalties weird. And Michael also wrote: "At least he's out of the AL Central, baby! But don't worry Jill, you got David Aardsma. Best of luck with that." I am a bit ignorant about David Aardsma. Is he going to be like Eric Gagne was for us last year? I think Gagne was actually on the Yankee payroll, not the Red Sox. I'm perfectly happy to let some other team win the World Series next year; I can't handle the late nights again. Go Cubs! And now for the Joss Whedon question. My friend Miriam (yes, some of you know her) sent my son Firefly and Serenity for graduation last year. He finally got around to watching them, and then my 16-year-old daughter got hooked, too. Um. This is really a question. I really want to understand, I do, really, I do. Could someone explain to me what the appeal of this series was/is? Jill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:21:53 -0500 From: FSThomas Subject: "How to Behave on an Internet Forum" http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-behave-on-an-internet-forum Mentioned for mentioning Godwin's Law. And for mentioning curling one in your auntie's teapot. - -f. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:14:48 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Jabberwocky, revisited On Feb 20, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Stacked Crooked wrote: > just finished this new replacements oral history. Must read that; what's it called? Playin makeup, wearing guitar, - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:24:41 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: whoops On Wed, 20 Feb 2008, Rex wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 6:35 AM, wrote: > > > World's biggest Christ struck by lightning: > > > > > > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=513855&in_page_id=1811&in_page_id=1811 > > > > The picture is very Pythonesque. > > > > > I just can't get enough of the phrase "World's Largest Christ". Sounds like > a challenge... I bet we could build a bigger Christ... out of cheese, or > something. Wouldn't last long and it would reek towards the end, but still, > for one shining moment, we would've had the World's Largest Christ. Kind of odd the World's Biggest Jebus isn't in the U.S., no? > You also have to wonder if Teh Redeemer ever gets pissed about all those > really big Buddhas all over the place... Probably not. I think he would have been rather disappointed about Bamian.. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:49:58 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: Station to Station > the picture on Station To Station is a still from Man Who Fell To Earth. Sorry, the back cover and inside artwork.... Quail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:23:52 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: whoops 2fs wrote: > > Nah - J. and the Buddha go way back. J. does like to tease Gauty about his > weight, though. Yeah, but he gets his own back with his armpit farting* skills. Holes in the hands really harm the volume and tone. Stewart *: there has to be a better term than this. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:25:27 -0800 From: "kevin studyvin" Subject: Bronco Billy (zero RH) Not that I'm trying to start anything, but we got Siamese Dream going at the moment and I have to admit it's one of my all-time favorites - "Spaceboy" is nothing but gorgeous. It's just too bad Corgan had to start believing his own press releases... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:11:38 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: a sports rant (no RH or Buffy content whatsover, but a little Joss Whedon at the end) On 2/20/08, Jill Brand wrote: > > People would have been rooting against > the Pats this year anyway. People hate Belichick because he isn't Tony > Dungy. He's cold and calculating, and he doesn't give a flying fuck about > what the press thinks. On youtube, there is, however, a cuddly old clip > from his Cleveland days in which he shows people how to make a PBJ on > raisin bread; he is quite adorable in that. Yeah? Well I've seen a video clip from the 1930s of HITLER petting a puppy! (heh-heh) - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:17:43 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: a sports rant (no RH or Buffy content whatsover, but a little Joss Whedon at the end) On 2/20/08, Jill Brand wrote: > > > exquisite beauty of Tom Brady. Tom Brady is David Watts (sorry, non Kinks > fans). Never apologize to non Kinks fans. They deserve pity, true - but nothing more. And now for the Joss Whedon question. My friend Miriam (yes, some of you > know her) sent my son Firefly and Serenity for graduation last year. He > finally got around to watching them, and then my 16-year-old daughter got > hooked, too. Um. This is really a question. I really want to > understand, I do, really, I do. Could someone explain to me what the > appeal of this series was/is? I'm gathering you've watched them? First: watch the series in the correct order (which wasn't the order it was broadcast). Then watch the movie. Anyway, short answer: primarily characterization and witty writing - but I think that, as usual w/Whedon projects, he ends up using those characters and situations (and witty writing) to explore various issues and questions worth thinking about. Or just have fun paying homage to his favorite pop-cultural phenomena. Or both. Someone else will mention the appeal of Nathan Fillion's trousers, I'm sure. (Lauren? Paging Lauren...) - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:21:56 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Jabberwocky, revisited On 2/20/08, Tom Clark wrote: > > On Feb 20, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Stacked Crooked wrote: > > > just finished this new replacements oral history. > > > Must read that; what's it called? I think it's called "Our Band Sucked." Cuz, you know - oral history. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:25:05 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: whoops On 2/20/08, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > > On Wed, 20 Feb 2008, Rex wrote: > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 6:35 AM, wrote: > > > > > World's biggest Christ struck by lightning: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=513855&in_page_id=1811&in_page_id=1811 > > > Kind of odd the World's Biggest Jebus isn't in the U.S., no? Shut up, terrorist. Why do you hate America? - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:47:45 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: whoops On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 4:25 PM, 2fs wrote: > On 2/20/08, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > > > On Wed, 20 Feb 2008, Rex wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 6:35 AM, wrote: > > > > > > > World's biggest Christ struck by lightning: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=513855&in_page_id=1811&in_page_id=1811 > > > > > > Kind of odd the World's Biggest Jebus isn't in the U.S., no? > > > > Shut up, terrorist. > > Why do you hate America? Well, hey, as long as we have a terrorist on the list, may I congratulate you on having already won? - -Rex, who, if he were a potential first lady, would probably get roasted but good for that remark. > > > -- > > ...Jeff Norman > > The Architectural Dance Society > http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:53:03 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: REAP Jim Jones (Pere Ubu): < http://www.zoilus.com/documents/general/2008/001188.php> - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:12:20 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: whoops On Wed, 20 Feb 2008, Rex wrote: > On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 4:25 PM, 2fs wrote: > > > On 2/20/08, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 20 Feb 2008, Rex wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 6:35 AM, wrote: > > > > > > > > > World's biggest Christ struck by lightning: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=513855&in_page_id=1811&in_page_id=1811 > > > > > > > > > Kind of odd the World's Biggest Jebus isn't in the U.S., no? > > > > > > > Shut up, terrorist. > > > > Why do you hate America? > > > Well, hey, as long as we have a terrorist on the list, may I congratulate > you on having already won? Thank you, a-thank you very much. > -Rex, who, if he were a potential first lady, would probably get roasted but > good for that remark. - -Ben, who, if he were a potential first lady (or husband), would hope that he wouldn't say things in public that the media could easily latch onto, e.g., "America after 1986=nothing to be proud of," even if he really thought that ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:21:03 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Bronco Billy (zero RH) On Feb 20, 2008, at 3:25 PM, kevin studyvin wrote: > Not that I'm trying to start anything, but we got Siamese Dream > going at the > moment and I have to admit it's one of my all-time favorites - > "Spaceboy" is > nothing but gorgeous. It's just too bad Corgan had to start > believing his > own press releases... heh heh, I was just listening to Crooked Rain/Crooked Rain: "Out on tour with the Smashing Pumpkins Nature kids, they don't have no function I don't understand what they mean and i could really give a fuck." - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:23:15 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: a sports rant turned to a Whedon rant, turned to a BSG rant - surprise surprise surprise On 2/20/08, Jill Brand wrote: > > You are right. I should never apologize to non-Kinks fans. > > About Firefly, no, I haven't watched all of them in order. I've just seen > an episode here or there. I find the language (this use of "ain't" and SV > non-agreement) grating because it doesn't seem to fit the characters. Hmm...how so? The only characters who are conventionally educated are the doctor and the companion, neither of whom are prone to those sorts of usages. Anyway: the language and its oddities are a sort of establishing premise of the world: it's a science-fiction western simply because both genres explore the notion of "frontier," and the notion of being kinda-sorta but not really beyond the law, and what sorts of moral questions that scenario raises. And the whole prostitution/companion thing seems to be a man's wet dream > in sci-fi land. Couldn't we maybe get male companions, too? You know, > like Bill Belichick? Whedon's comments on this (I think they're somewhere on Whedonesque - although probably some on the commentary tracks also) are simply that he sees no particular reason why "companionship" (which is more than just sex: note that Inara is, like all companions, shown to be highly educated and cultured) couldn't be a viable career choice. It's the stigma of sex, as well as the judgmental attitude toward women's sexuality, that makes the occupation seem sexist, not the situation itself (or so he argues). I'm inclined to agree, and there's some historical basis for at least part of the characterization of companions. It's also true that Inara is not presented solely as eye candy, nor are her looks exploited egregiously (at least not any more than any other of the attractive cast members, male and female). You might compare Kaylee's sexuality (who's not a companion). The only man who seems to have a problem with Inara is Mal - and at least part of that is because he's attracted to her and is kind of a dick at times. As for male companions: the show/movie never explored the world of companions very deeply...but in principle there'd be no reason there wouldn't be such things. Although it would seem that in this world (I mean this one) at least, there's rarely a need for male companions (in the FF/S sense) for women, since men are sluts: if a woman signals her availability, there's going to be some guy glad to oblige, and he's unlikely to ask to be paid for it. Whedon's feminism is definitely not '70s-era feminism - he's far more at home in more contemporary varieties that take a sort of both/and attitude toward conventional signifiers of femininity as well as allowing women to do whatever they want, including trad. male arenas. In that it seems similar to BSG - so far (I've just started S2.5 on DVD) I've not heard a single character on that show express any question as to another character's qualifications or ability based on gender, race, etc. - only on experience, personality, etc. Definitely sort of post-identity utopian in that regard (which - tying back to the earlier discussion of the use of "sir" and "men" as all-purpose, gender-neutral terms - is the only possible scenario under which such terminology *doesn't* merely reproduce gender inequality under the guise of gender "colorblindness"...) - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:40:47 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: a sports rant (no RH or Buffy content whatsover, but a little Joss Whedon at the end) Missed this the first time around: > > And now for the Joss Whedon question. My friend Miriam (yes, some of > > you > > know her) sent my son Firefly and Serenity for graduation last year. He > > finally got around to watching them, and then my 16-year-old daughter got > > hooked, too. Um. This is really a question. I really want to > > understand, I do, really, I do. Could someone explain to me what the > > appeal of this series was/is? I take it this is a roundabout way of saying "I didn't like it," right? Mentioning what, specifically, you didn't like about the series might give us some room for discussion. Lacking that, I'll just me-too Jeff: it's all about the engaging characters and witty writing. (Two things most network TV shows generally lack.) - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:08:54 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: unREAP: Nick Drake Lives On Rex wrote: > >> Elderly Instruments >> Banjos in every price range - - most qualifying for Free Shipping >> www.elderly.com You do have to make it to Elderly once. It's an unbelievable store (and yes, their banjo selection is amazing). Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:14:17 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: a sports rant turned to a Whedon rant, turned to a BSG rant - surprise surprise surprise On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 5:23 PM, 2fs wrote: > On 2/20/08, Jill Brand wrote: > > > > You are right. I should never apologize to non-Kinks fans. > > > > About Firefly, no, I haven't watched all of them in order. I've just > seen > > an episode here or there. I find the language (this use of "ain't" and > SV > > non-agreement) grating because it doesn't seem to fit the characters. > That didn't bug me, nor did most of the Firefly slang, but I just have to say once for the record that I hate hate hate all phony SF swear words evar. Frak, smeg, gorram and barrel (and also whatever the hell it was they said on Farscape). And there are two reasons why it bugs. (1) It's a general SF convention that we shouldn't be able to understand what the characters are saying because it would really be either an alien language or a future language that doubtless would have altered in many ways, and wouldn't sound like good ol' American (or British) English any more, so one assumes that the bulk of the language is conveniently "translated" for us. So it sticks out like a sore thumb that *certain* words-- particularly those that 20th C (approx.) censors find offensive-- aren't translated. (2) It really points directly to the juvenile origins of the genre... phony cuss words being there so you can get away with "swearing" in front of mom & dad and feel kind of smug about it when you're 10. Generally SF is a lot more respected as something that's not just for kids any more these days, so it seems odd to me that this little tic persists. It didn't ruin Firefly for me; it kind of did ruin the original BSG for me, and one strike against the new one is that they retained the swear word lexicon, which was up there among the lame points of the original. I guess I'll be over it by the time I actually get around to seeing the bumper crop of good '90's and '00's SF (probably in the early '20's). - -Rex ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #510 ********************************