From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #499 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, February 13 2008 Volume 16 : Number 499 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Amanda Knox won't stop singing "Let It Be" [2fs ] It's A Winner ["Stacked Crooked" ] Re: why do they hate Hillary? [2fs ] Re: why do they hate Hillary? [The Great Quail ] Sweet electrically melting chocolate Jesus (was: [none]) [Michael Sweeney] Let's get sumthin straight! ["Bri N" ] Re: why do they hate Hillary? [The Great Quail ] Re: why do they hate Hillary? [The Great Quail ] Re: why do they hate Hillary? [Rex ] Re: Peter Pan Syndrome [was: Re: why do they hate Hillary?] [Rex ] Re: why do they hate Hillary? [Steve Schiavo ] Re: why do they hate Hillary? [2fs ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:54:23 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Amanda Knox won't stop singing "Let It Be" On 2/12/08, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3349027.ece > > > 'Cellmates of Amanda Knox, the American student suspected of involvement > in the murder of Meredith Kercher in Perugia last November, have pleaded > with prison authorities to stop her repeatedly singing the Beatles' song > Let it Be at the top of her voice. Well, she may or may not be convicted...but if she's not she'd better watch her ass if she returns to the US: that's unauthorized public performance of copyrighted material there, and the RIAA is *pissed*. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:20:29 -0600 (CST) From: Capuchin Subject: Peter Pan Syndrome [was: Re: why do they hate Hillary?] I'll leave you Democrats to duke out which of your candidates has sold out the least. But I found this rather interesting. On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Rex wrote: > I rather expected you to assert that there's nothing wrong with PPS. > And it's not necessarily a terrible thing, fairly common among people I > consider close friends, really. Probably present in myself, but I tend > to live it out vicariously, either through friends or the press-- hell, > I read reviews of all the blockbusters and genre films and comics and, > yes, even videogames. But these days that's usually enough. There was an XKCD comic last year that really nailed something home for me. A fellow comes home to find his girlfriend has put one of those pet-gates on the front door of his apartment and filled the room with those little balls like they have at indoor playgrounds. The woman says, "We're the adults now -- so we get to define what that means." So... hanging on to childish things means, to me, adhering to tripe like "The American Dream Is Possible For Everyone", "Professional Wrestling Is Real", "Alchohol Is A Solution To Some Of Life's Problems", and "Celebrity's Lives Are Important To Me". While reading comic books, playing with Lego, riding bicycles with your friends, and getting excited about candy are all perfectly legitimate things for an adult to do. Let's not fall into the trap the boomers left us (which their terrifically fucked-up parents left for them, naturally). The present is ours insofar as we make sure there's a future for someone else. Let's not waste the opportunity. J. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:07:23 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: why do they hate Hillary? Rex, > Not really; I rather expected you to assert that there's nothing wrong with > PPS. I have never heard "Peter Pan Syndrome" applied to an adult male in any particularly positive way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Pan_syndrome > I guess. A much larger percentage of them seem to be property-driven > tie-ins to synergistic releases in other media, For the most part, those games suck, much in the same way most tie-ins suck. Except of course certain games like Knights of the Old Republic, which is a better entry to the Star Wars universe than anything Lucas has done since "Empire Strikes Back." But games like Bioshock, Mass Effect, Rock Band, and Grand Theft Auto really move the bar in terms of what a video game can set out to accomplish as entertainment. > Well, I have yet to hear any issues of censorship of any kind raised in the > course of this campaign other than by you, actually, so I hardly think it's > a hot-button issue of major concern other than for those who have a vested > interest in it. Which I do, and that's why I said that it was a clear strike against Hillary for me. I never laid claim to it being as important as universal health care or the war in Iraq. >I have a bunch of pre-teen daughters, but I'm not basing my > vote on which of the candidates can get me tickets to that Hannah Montana > movie, and I don't expect a large amount of other people to share that > concern with me. That's not a very logical connection. I am talking about a leading Democrat throwing her lot in with the likes of Lieberman and Brownback to come down on an entertainment form she knows little about, creating an atmosphere that leads to million-dollar lawsuits, misinformation, and the hedging of free expression and creativity. I am not talking about which candidate can get me a free ticket to a show. > In fact I imagine I'd look rather silly if that, or some > other completely marginal entertainment-related issue, was among the first > knocks I came up with against the guy I didn't favor. You may think I am being silly, but the First Amendment is very close to me. I am still pissed off at Tipper Gore. > (Why does everyone who insists that videogames are art start their arguments > by talking about how much money they generate? It's got nothing to do with > anything.) The argument wasn't about whether video games were art, it was about whether or not they were important or significant. > I never said that. I just said that I personally don't give a shit about > them. I did when I was a kid myself. And I note that the multi-billions > being generated by the industry still come mostly from kids. You should check the more recent statistics. > No, not at all. I've made reference to liking Obama as well, and I really > don't have a problem with the vast majority of his supporters. I got particularly creeped out by the woman in the lower right tonight with the Obama T-shirt and the look of utter adoration. I am sure she went home and repeated his speech verbatim to her twelve cats. However, I still prefer her to the slack-jawed jackass chewing gum up to his left. He gave another great speech; I also think Hillary's speech was better than her usual fare. McCain, well.... I like the guy and all, basically, but man, what a contrast. > If HC secured the nomination via that channel, I would have to > concede that the Hillary-dislikers/haters might have a point in that > "entitlement" accusation. I am glad to hear that. Then I assume you must be alarmed at her increasingly more emphatic declarations that Florida and Michigan votes should be counted? - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:16:14 -0800 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: It's A Winner i've just uploaded the spankin'-new video for "Myriad Harbour" to . pretty damned great! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:19:31 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: why do they hate Hillary? On 2/12/08, The Great Quail wrote: > > > > the slack-jawed jackass chewing gum up to his left. W. was there? - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:07:23 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: why do they hate Hillary? Rex, > Not really; I rather expected you to assert that there's nothing wrong with > PPS. I have never heard "Peter Pan Syndrome" applied to an adult male in any particularly positive way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Pan_syndrome > I guess. A much larger percentage of them seem to be property-driven > tie-ins to synergistic releases in other media, For the most part, those games suck, much in the same way most tie-ins suck. Except of course certain games like Knights of the Old Republic, which is a better entry to the Star Wars universe than anything Lucas has done since "Empire Strikes Back." But games like Bioshock, Mass Effect, Rock Band, and Grand Theft Auto really move the bar in terms of what a video game can set out to accomplish as entertainment. > Well, I have yet to hear any issues of censorship of any kind raised in the > course of this campaign other than by you, actually, so I hardly think it's > a hot-button issue of major concern other than for those who have a vested > interest in it. Which I do, and that's why I said that it was a clear strike against Hillary for me. I never laid claim to it being as important as universal health care or the war in Iraq. >I have a bunch of pre-teen daughters, but I'm not basing my > vote on which of the candidates can get me tickets to that Hannah Montana > movie, and I don't expect a large amount of other people to share that > concern with me. That's not a very logical connection. I am talking about a leading Democrat throwing her lot in with the likes of Lieberman and Brownback to come down on an entertainment form she knows little about, creating an atmosphere that leads to million-dollar lawsuits, misinformation, and the hedging of free expression and creativity. I am not talking about which candidate can get me a free ticket to a show. > In fact I imagine I'd look rather silly if that, or some > other completely marginal entertainment-related issue, was among the first > knocks I came up with against the guy I didn't favor. You may think I am being silly, but the First Amendment is very close to me. I am still pissed off at Tipper Gore. > (Why does everyone who insists that videogames are art start their arguments > by talking about how much money they generate? It's got nothing to do with > anything.) The argument wasn't about whether video games were art, it was about whether or not they were important or significant. > I never said that. I just said that I personally don't give a shit about > them. I did when I was a kid myself. And I note that the multi-billions > being generated by the industry still come mostly from kids. You should check the more recent statistics. > No, not at all. I've made reference to liking Obama as well, and I really > don't have a problem with the vast majority of his supporters. I got particularly creeped out by the woman in the lower right tonight with the Obama T-shirt and the look of utter adoration. I am sure she went home and repeated his speech verbatim to her twelve cats. However, I still prefer her to the slack-jawed jackass chewing gum up to his left. He gave another great speech; I also think Hillary's speech was better than her usual fare. McCain, well.... I like the guy and all, basically, but man, what a contrast. > If HC secured the nomination via that channel, I would have to > concede that the Hillary-dislikers/haters might have a point in that > "entitlement" accusation. I am glad to hear that. Then I assume you must be alarmed at her increasingly more emphatic declarations that Florida and Michigan votes should be counted? - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:33:33 +0000 From: Michael Sweeney Subject: Sweet electrically melting chocolate Jesus (was: [none]) Jeff Dwarf linked: >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_articl e_id=513855&in_page_id=1811 ...I believe that photo might've been taken the other day, when Gov. Rev. Huckabee was winning a few Southern primaries on his way toward capturing the Republican nomination for the Presidency of the Confederate States of America... Michael "One person's savior is another person's lightning rod..." Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! http://biggestloser.msn.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:18:54 -0800 From: "Bri N" Subject: Let's get sumthin straight! I like the Gary Barnacle sax version of The Man Who Invented Himself better than the saxless version. Much like a fegfan likes the Skin It Back version of Old Pervert over the Disco version. But I like the Skin It Back version. Yes indeed, what of the Surfer Ghost ghost on Shadow Cat? Nothing to hear because it's more Egyptian? Hope to hear it better on the Egyptians boxset. Hard to think of a better place. Barnacle ended on in the band Visage which I'm enjoying now... - -Nuppy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:07:23 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: why do they hate Hillary? Rex, > Not really; I rather expected you to assert that there's nothing wrong with > PPS. I have never heard "Peter Pan Syndrome" applied to an adult male in any particularly positive way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Pan_syndrome > I guess. A much larger percentage of them seem to be property-driven > tie-ins to synergistic releases in other media, For the most part, those games suck, much in the same way most tie-ins suck. Except of course certain games like Knights of the Old Republic, which is a better entry to the Star Wars universe than anything Lucas has done since "Empire Strikes Back." But games like Bioshock, Mass Effect, Rock Band, and Grand Theft Auto really move the bar in terms of what a video game can set out to accomplish as entertainment. > Well, I have yet to hear any issues of censorship of any kind raised in the > course of this campaign other than by you, actually, so I hardly think it's > a hot-button issue of major concern other than for those who have a vested > interest in it. Which I do, and that's why I said that it was a clear strike against Hillary for me. I never laid claim to it being as important as universal health care or the war in Iraq. >I have a bunch of pre-teen daughters, but I'm not basing my > vote on which of the candidates can get me tickets to that Hannah Montana > movie, and I don't expect a large amount of other people to share that > concern with me. That's not a very logical connection. I am talking about a leading Democrat throwing her lot in with the likes of Lieberman and Brownback to come down on an entertainment form she knows little about, creating an atmosphere that leads to million-dollar lawsuits, misinformation, and the hedging of free expression and creativity. I am not talking about which candidate can get me a free ticket to a show. > In fact I imagine I'd look rather silly if that, or some > other completely marginal entertainment-related issue, was among the first > knocks I came up with against the guy I didn't favor. You may think I am being silly, but the First Amendment is very close to me. I am still pissed off at Tipper Gore. > (Why does everyone who insists that videogames are art start their arguments > by talking about how much money they generate? It's got nothing to do with > anything.) The argument wasn't about whether video games were art, it was about whether or not they were important or significant. > I never said that. I just said that I personally don't give a shit about > them. I did when I was a kid myself. And I note that the multi-billions > being generated by the industry still come mostly from kids. You should check the more recent statistics. > No, not at all. I've made reference to liking Obama as well, and I really > don't have a problem with the vast majority of his supporters. I got particularly creeped out by the woman in the lower right tonight with the Obama T-shirt and the look of utter adoration. I am sure she went home and repeated his speech verbatim to her twelve cats. However, I still prefer her to the slack-jawed jackass chewing gum up to his left. He gave another great speech; I also think Hillary's speech was better than her usual fare. McCain, well.... I like the guy and all, basically, but man, what a contrast. > If HC secured the nomination via that channel, I would have to > concede that the Hillary-dislikers/haters might have a point in that > "entitlement" accusation. I am glad to hear that. Then I assume you must be alarmed at her increasingly more emphatic declarations that Florida and Michigan votes should be counted? - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:07:23 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: why do they hate Hillary? Rex, > Not really; I rather expected you to assert that there's nothing wrong with > PPS. I have never heard "Peter Pan Syndrome" applied to an adult male in any particularly positive way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Pan_syndrome > I guess. A much larger percentage of them seem to be property-driven > tie-ins to synergistic releases in other media, For the most part, those games suck, much in the same way most tie-ins suck. Except of course certain games like Knights of the Old Republic, which is a better entry to the Star Wars universe than anything Lucas has done since "Empire Strikes Back." But games like Bioshock, Mass Effect, Rock Band, and Grand Theft Auto really move the bar in terms of what a video game can set out to accomplish as entertainment. > Well, I have yet to hear any issues of censorship of any kind raised in the > course of this campaign other than by you, actually, so I hardly think it's > a hot-button issue of major concern other than for those who have a vested > interest in it. Which I do, and that's why I said that it was a clear strike against Hillary for me. I never laid claim to it being as important as universal health care or the war in Iraq. >I have a bunch of pre-teen daughters, but I'm not basing my > vote on which of the candidates can get me tickets to that Hannah Montana > movie, and I don't expect a large amount of other people to share that > concern with me. That's not a very logical connection. I am talking about a leading Democrat throwing her lot in with the likes of Lieberman and Brownback to come down on an entertainment form she knows little about, creating an atmosphere that leads to million-dollar lawsuits, misinformation, and the hedging of free expression and creativity. I am not talking about which candidate can get me a free ticket to a show. > In fact I imagine I'd look rather silly if that, or some > other completely marginal entertainment-related issue, was among the first > knocks I came up with against the guy I didn't favor. You may think I am being silly, but the First Amendment is very close to me. I am still pissed off at Tipper Gore. > (Why does everyone who insists that videogames are art start their arguments > by talking about how much money they generate? It's got nothing to do with > anything.) The argument wasn't about whether video games were art, it was about whether or not they were important or significant. > I never said that. I just said that I personally don't give a shit about > them. I did when I was a kid myself. And I note that the multi-billions > being generated by the industry still come mostly from kids. You should check the more recent statistics. > No, not at all. I've made reference to liking Obama as well, and I really > don't have a problem with the vast majority of his supporters. I got particularly creeped out by the woman in the lower right tonight with the Obama T-shirt and the look of utter adoration. I am sure she went home and repeated his speech verbatim to her twelve cats. However, I still prefer her to the slack-jawed jackass chewing gum up to his left. He gave another great speech; I also think Hillary's speech was better than her usual fare. McCain, well.... I like the guy and all, basically, but man, what a contrast. > If HC secured the nomination via that channel, I would have to > concede that the Hillary-dislikers/haters might have a point in that > "entitlement" accusation. I am glad to hear that. Then I assume you must be alarmed at her increasingly more emphatic declarations that Florida and Michigan votes should be counted? - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:15:58 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: why do they hate Hillary? On Feb 12, 2008 8:07 PM, The Great Quail wrote: > > > I guess. A much larger percentage of them seem to be property-driven > > tie-ins to synergistic releases in other media, > > For the most part, those games suck, much in the same way most tie-ins > suck. > Except of course certain games like Knights of the Old Republic, which is > a > better entry to the Star Wars universe than anything Lucas has done since > "Empire Strikes Back." That very thing was in the back of my mind when mentioning that-- I seem to recall someone else making a similar comment here. > > Which I do, and that's why I said that it was a clear strike against > Hillary > for me. I never laid claim to it being as important as universal health > care > or the war in Iraq. It was the first strike against her that you mentioned, and an unusual one, so I attached a particular unusual amount of concern about it on your behalf. > > > >I have a bunch of pre-teen daughters, but I'm not basing my > > vote on which of the candidates can get me tickets to that Hannah > Montana > > movie, and I don't expect a large amount of other people to share that > > concern with me. > > That's not a very logical connection. I am talking about a leading > Democrat > throwing her lot in with the likes of Lieberman and Brownback to come down > on an entertainment form she knows little about, creating an atmosphere > that > leads to million-dollar lawsuits, misinformation, and the hedging of free > expression and creativity. It's really off my radar. The last time I looked, those games were self-rated, and I don't think that it's too naive to think that keeps them pretty safe. That's as far as anyone ever got with movies and music, and I don't think anyone can make a convincing argument that games are significantly different. I did say that if censorship did bubble up as a major issue in any arena, I'd be against it-- but one can't track every potential issue, and I'd not heard much about this one. Old people never know anything about youth culture, so that's not much of a knock. Most of our contemporaries are equally ignorant about gaming. The obvious difference is that games put the player in the first person, so if it's a violent came, often as not, the player is a participant in the violence... and take the position of a non-gamer for just a second. The notion doesn't speak to the best in human nature. (Neither does The Velvet Underground, but there's a difference-- I don't think I'd want to play a game of "Sister Ray", but it makes for pretty good lit. Maybe that's just me.) > > In fact I imagine I'd look rather silly if that, or some > > other completely marginal entertainment-related issue, was among the > first > > knocks I came up with against the guy I didn't favor. > > You may think I am being silly, but the First Amendment is very close to > me. > I am still pissed off at Tipper Gore. Hell, me too. But I was a youthful fan of that crazy rock and roll when that was going on. Say, has anyone paid any attention to what records get those warning labels these days? Like the Thurston Moore solo record, which no kid would ever want anyway? I bet he just got stuck with that because of that little "SMASH THE PMRC" drawing in the liner notes to "GOO". > > The argument wasn't about whether video games were art, it was about > whether > or not they were important or significant. I stand corrected. The argument that money generated = importance or significance doesn't quite hold with me, either... I'm told that there's hells of money in porn and scrapbooking, but they remain fairly marginal nonetheless. And there's certainly an argument to be made that the most profitable movies (for example, but books too) are often among the most disposable. That's by design, of course: they're meant to be escapism. And yes, the way a culture amuses itself says a lot about the culture. But is the next inevitably profitable Will Ferrell film, "That Guy Who Plays That Sport All Funny-Like", really important or significant, other than inasmuch as it *will* make a profit? The general public leaning towards enjoying such a film might be significant, but I doubt that the work itself is. > > > If HC secured the nomination via that channel, I would have to > > concede that the Hillary-dislikers/haters might have a point in that > > "entitlement" accusation. > > I am glad to hear that. Then I assume you must be alarmed at her > increasingly more emphatic declarations that Florida and Michigan votes > should be counted? You assume correctly. I'm overall happy with the tone both campaigns have followed and want to see them continue that way to the end. Hillary has made a point of pledging to unite the party behind whoever is nominated, and I certainly hold her to that. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:20:52 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: Peter Pan Syndrome [was: Re: why do they hate Hillary?] On Feb 12, 2008 7:20 PM, Capuchin wrote: > I'll leave you Democrats Hee. I feel pretty secure in saying that neither Quail nor I would label ourselves that way. > to duke out which of your candidates has sold out > the least. Sold out from the starting point of being a Democrat? Neither of them, at least not too horribly. From the starting point of being human? Well, they are, after all, politicians. > > So... hanging on to childish things means, to me, adhering to tripe like > "The American Dream Is Possible For Everyone", "Professional Wrestling Is > Real", "Alchohol Is A Solution To Some Of Life's Problems", and > "Celebrity's Lives Are Important To Me". > > While reading comic books, playing with Lego, riding bicycles with your > friends, and getting excited about candy are all perfectly legitimate > things for an adult to do. I did manage to get excited about candy a week or two ago. Nice post, is all. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:22:52 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: Let's get sumthin straight! On Feb 12, 2008 8:18 PM, Bri N wrote: > I like the Gary Barnacle sax version of The Man Who Invented Himself > better than the saxless version Hear hear. For some reason I first ready this as "Gay Barnacle Sex Version". Because if anyone would have such a version of one of his songs, it'd be our boy. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:42:34 -0600 From: Steve Schiavo Subject: Re: why do they hate Hillary? On Feb 12, 2008, at 10:07 PM, The Great Quail wrote: > I got particularly creeped out by the woman in the lower right > tonight with > the Obama T-shirt and the look of utter adoration. I am sure she > went home > and repeated his speech verbatim to her twelve cats. However, I > still prefer > her to the slack-jawed jackass chewing gum up to his left. You always see something like this when a politician is shown on a stage with the just plain folk. It doesn't matter who it is, it just goes with the territory. > My own feelings are best encapsulated by Andrew Sullivan, I think, > and I > recommend his blog to anyone interested in this race: > > http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish I go all the way back to Andrew's days at The New Republic, and I read his blog every day, but some liberal bloggers do think he suffers from CDS. (It's a matter of degree). Here's a couple of good ones to offset Andrew - Both fairly moderate Democrats who started out somewhat pro-Hillary. - - Steve __________ I can't resist an anime that includes a small, cute, violence prone girl with a scythe. - John ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:00:30 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: why do they hate Hillary? On 2/12/08, Rex wrote: > > > violence... and take the position of a non-gamer for just a second. The > notion doesn't speak to the best in human nature. (Neither does The > Velvet > Underground, but there's a difference-- I don't think I'd want to play a > game of "Sister Ray" I'm thinking that would be a very peculiar video game... Hell, me too. But I was a youthful fan of that crazy rock and roll when > that was going on. Say, has anyone paid any attention to what records get > those warning labels these days? Like the Thurston Moore solo record, > which > no kid would ever want anyway? > If you mean the first one, few adults would want it either. Don't know why - that one never worked for me. I like his newish one, though. Anyway: I'm pretty sure warning labels got attached to any record in which the singer sings "fuck" and a few other words. That's pretty much all it is. Of course it was teen-magnet stuff...somewhat analogous to the absurd way American radio is compelled to bleep out certain words...which means, in a lot of cases, that a "shit" or whatever that no one would even have noticed suddenly has mucho attention drawn to it by the interruption. And of course, in context, any moron with more than a second-grade education can tell what word's being bleeped out. Silly me - I just don't understand the logic of censorship. Actually what bugs me is when parents can't accept the idea that the world can exist and have aspects which aren't for their kiddios (and, of course, often having an absurdly naive idea of their kids as well...). - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #499 ********************************