From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #497 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, February 12 2008 Volume 16 : Number 497 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: indeed [Jeff Dwarf ] [none] [Jeff Dwarf ] RE: indeed ["Bachman, Michael" ] Re: [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: indeed [Michael Sweeney ] Re: ["kevin studyvin" ] Re: [Rex ] Re: indeed [The Great Quail ] Re: [lep ] Huhn ["Stacked Crooked" ] Re: indeed [Rex ] reap (inanimate) [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: indeed [2fs ] Re: reap (inanimate) [Benjamin Lukoff ] RE: indeed [Maximilian Lang ] "Premature Evaluation" of new R.E.M. by Matthew Perpetua (fluxblog, Pop Songs 08) [2fs ] clash drummer [HwyCDRrev@aol.com] Reap [hssmrg@bath.ac.uk] Re: why do they hate Hillary? [The Great Quail ] Re: why do they hate Hillary? [The Great Quail ] Re: why do they hate Hillary? [Rex ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:25:39 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: indeed 2fs wrote: > There's also the fact that (John Edwards)'s neither the > "establishment" candidate (Clinton) nor a charismatic > quasi-insurgent (Obama) - for whatever reasons, the press never > cottoned much to him (witness the absurd Haircutgate - and the > ridiculous traction given the right-wing "but he's a wealthy trail Great typo. > lawyer - it's hypocritical for him to talk about poverty" crap - I > mean, what: now you're only legit if you're in favor of yourself > and people exactly like you?) And it's not like Edwards grew up with a silver spoon in his nose. I guess a guy who pulled himself up by the proverbial bootstraps noting that you need to actually have some bootstraps to pull yourself up on to pull yourself up by your bootstraps (goo goo g'joob) exposes their bullshit too much. > Survey Americans as to whether McCain is a "moderate" or a > "conservative" or even a "progressive" - and you'll get a number > of folks answering "moderate" or even "progressive," simply due to > the media's overreporting his positions that differ from the hard > right while underreporting those that place him firmly among the > hard right. And he behaves in a manner that demonstrates respect for people who disagree with him; his behavior is moderate and respectful, which gets interpreted as having moderate to progressive beliefs. > Not to mention that Robyn could've written that "blowjobs from the > press" line about McCain - they love him. He didn't? "I'm not tempted to write a song about George W. Bush. I couldn't figure out what sort of song I would write. That's the problem: I don't want to satirize George Bush and his puppeteers, I want to vaporize them." -- Tom Lehrer "The eyes are the groin of the head." -- Dwight Schrute . ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:15:50 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: [none] http://www.popmatters.com/pm/features/article/54612/robyn-hitchcock/ "I'm not tempted to write a song about George W. Bush. I couldn't figure out what sort of song I would write. That's the problem: I don't want to satirize George Bush and his puppeteers, I want to vaporize them." -- Tom Lehrer "The eyes are the groin of the head." -- Dwight Schrute . ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 16:17:10 -0500 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: indeed - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org [mailto:owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Jason Brown Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 12:39 PM To: And Rex Hamilton as Abraham Lincoln Subject: Re: indeed On Marcy Tanter wrote: >> Which is partly why I don't understand what happened with Edwards. >> His positions are clear and logical, yet the country prefers two >> candidates whose positions are not obvious. >I think Edward's problem was not about issues it was the all about the tone of his campaign and the fact that almost >every stance he has now runs counter his senate voting record. I was a big Edwards supporter in 2004 and for most of last year but his populist man of the people schtick seemed to suited to running against an incumbent and really didn't offer any real vision for the future other than a world in which he alone can protect us from the evil, evil corporations. >Ultimately there is very little difference between Edwards, Obama, and Clinton the issues so it really came down to the vision thing and what the candidates themselves represent. Edwards big issue that didn't resonate throughout the party was the state of the poor in this country. He also was dead set against lobbyists which was another secondary issue that didn't resonate. If he concentrated more on the economy, trade imbalance, Iraq, and health care he would have been much better off. Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 22:36:16 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: - -- Jeff Dwarf is rumored to have mumbled on 11. Februar 2008 12:15:50 -0800 regarding : > http://www.popmatters.com/pm/features/article/54612/robyn-hitchcock/ I liked "Never Let Me Go" as well, but it's not as good as "The Remains Of the Day". I may have shed a few tears myself, though. I was surprised he likes Tanya Donelly. Number 11 is damn funny. Number 16 is painfully true (re Blair). - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Am alten Stellwerk 22, 50733 Kvln, Germany http://www.uni-koeln.de/~a0620/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:50:48 +0000 From: Michael Sweeney Subject: Re: indeed >[various Obama vs. Clinton, platform & persona stuff...plus Edwards comments] ...I used the above semi-cop-out summary because I'm not actually rebutting anyone or refuting anyone else's beliefs -- but I am very much tied into following all of this (just ask Lauren: she opted to get my twice-weekly dispatches, which are about 1,200-1,500 wds of political updates; at least I try to leaven them with plenty o' attempted jokes) and I have some very definite opinions on it. I am a strong supporter of Barack Obama. That said, I would have been glad to vote for Sen. Edwards had he become the nominee...and, if the choice is Hillary vs. McCain in Nov., there will not be a nanosecond's hesitation before I cast my vote for Sen. Clinton. (Plus, I'm on record predicting the Dems win semi-big, no matter who the nominee is.) However, Sen. Obama's speeches are not just all platitudes and high-ideals...nor are Sen. Clinton's just wonky details. Frankly, anecdotal examples of Obama supporters knowing more about how they FEEL about the Senator then where he STANDS on issues reflects more about them than it does on the candidate. The info is widely available, and -- supporters of not -- I would really rather have an informed electorate than people just lining up, rave-style, for whatever happens next that they don't want to miss out on. Whatever. But the fact remains that there are far fewer differences -- and minute ones, really -- between Obama and Clinton (and even Edwards) than A) Between any of them and any of the Republicans, and B) Between the Republicans themselves (witness the Conservative "rejection" of McCain at the C-PAC event (the walking corpse of Romney won their straw poll AFTER he withdrew AND after McCain tried to slobber up to them) AND the "buyer's remorse" wins for Rev. Huck over the weekend). So, given similar content, the vessels DO matter. And, while, like Bill Clinton, I had certainly looked forward all my life to vote for a qualified female candidate for President (hell, I was enthusiastic -- if perhaps-deluded and doomed -- about Geraldine Ferraro for VP in '84)...AND I DO posit that Hillary IS qualified. But, in this case, a different approach matters more than "experience"...A generational change (a la Kennedy following Ike) matters more than a perceived status quo...Having opposed the war (yes, when not yet in the Senate...but, still, in public life and at a time when it was not popular or expedient to do so) matters more than parsing timing and levels of support and apparently not seeing the difference..."The Audacity of Hope" matters more than "married to the guy from Hope." (A cheapish joke, perhaps, but...a valid point: At this point in time and history, being inspirational as a leader of not only the country but of its people -- of all ages, races, and walks of life -- has to trump "merely" not needing a map to all the washrooms in the West Wing.) We've tried (much to my chagrin) the not-so-smart guy who can't talk his way out of a simple sentence, but made 50%+1 (give or take; more or less) feel "good" or "better" or "safer." I'm glad this time to have the chance to support a clearly intelligent person with ideas and idealsm who talks impressively and can make a BIG difference in the opinion of the rest of the world. No, I don't mean that Al Qaeda (and/or whoever) would look at Obama and suddenly say "Whoa, a person 'of color' -- I guess the US isn't so much the Great Satan after all!" But I DO think that the change in direction -- to younger, smarter, so different -- will mean something where it still CAN mean something in the rest of the world. Anyway...any more copy than this and I'll be verging on ANOTHER 1,500 wds (sorry Lauren) tossed on the pile. I will have no problem with Pres. Hillary, if it comes to that...but, until it does, I'm more aligned (philosophically, intellectually) with Barack Obama...and I think he has the chance to be a transformational leader (a la Reagan (although I did not like what was transformed then), FDR, TR, Lincoln) in our country's history. Let the turning out masses -- energized by their choices and the process -- have their say, and let the chips fall where they may... Michael "Yes, this IS the 'Windy' City (my apologies again)" Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! http://biggestloser.msn.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:56:17 -0800 From: "kevin studyvin" Subject: Re: So I'm not the only Tanya Donelly fan after all... On Feb 11, 2008 12:15 PM, Jeff Dwarf wrote: > http://www.popmatters.com/pm/features/article/54612/robyn-hitchcock/ > > "I'm not tempted to write a song about George W. Bush. I couldn't figure > out what sort of song I would write. That's the problem: I don't want to > satirize George Bush and his puppeteers, I want to vaporize them." -- Tom > Lehrer > > "The eyes are the groin of the head." -- Dwight Schrute > . > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 14:06:41 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: On Feb 11, 2008 1:36 PM, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > -- Jeff Dwarf is rumored to have mumbled on 11. > Februar 2008 12:15:50 -0800 regarding : > > > http://www.popmatters.com/pm/features/article/54612/robyn-hitchcock/ > > I liked "Never Let Me Go" as well, but it's not as good as "The Remains Of > the Day". I may have shed a few tears myself, though. I was surprised he > likes Tanya Donelly. He's mentioned that before, I recall. He loved "Feed the Tree". That shot of RH and his Way with Lather is getting a lot of play, huh? - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 17:12:30 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: indeed > I'm getting just a wee bit creeped out by the deification of Obama right > now. I'll probably get over it, but there's some pretty strong > mythologizing going on right now that might prove difficult to live up to I am not saying you are wrong, necessarily. However, I would like to throw you a few links you may wish to read touching this subject from both sides. http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/02/07/obama-and-the-am azing-technicolor-dreamcoat.aspx http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stacy-parker-aab/the-latest-obama-distorti_b_8 6063.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/11/opinion/11krugman.html?_r=1&oref=slogin http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/11/krugman-claims-obama-supp_n_85999.h tml http://online.wsj.com/article/declarations.html - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 17:26:33 -0500 From: lep Subject: Re: Sebastian says: > -- Jeff Dwarf is rumored to have mumbled on 11. > Februar 2008 12:15:50 -0800 regarding : > > > http://www.popmatters.com/pm/features/article/54612/robyn-hitchcock/ > > I liked "Never Let Me Go" as well, but it's not as good as "The Remains Of > the Day". I may have shed a few tears myself, though. I was surprised he > likes Tanya Donelly. Number 11 is damn funny. Number 16 is painfully true > (re Blair). re: #11 - that was my favourite answer. partly because it's sweet to think of robyn being called dad. i love ishiguro - i barely read any novels, but i manage to read his (i haven't read "the unconsoled" but i think i've kept up with the rest.) but i kind of wish robyn had mentioned a different novel since i already heard of his reading that one (i think he very much liked it as i think i've seen him refer to it three or so times.) i don't know much of his taste in novels. as ever, lauren - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 14:47:42 -0800 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: Huhn anybody else really digging nick cave's last two film-score collaborations with "ellis"? i had enjoyed the previous one (*The Proposition* -- don't know anything about the movie); didn't even know they'd also done one for *The Assassination Of Jesse James* 'til somebody uploaded it to usenet the other day. ...and damned if it's not quite good as well. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:53:16 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: indeed On Feb 11, 2008 2:12 PM, The Great Quail wrote: > > I'm getting just a wee bit creeped out by the deification of Obama right > > now. I'll probably get over it, but there's some pretty strong > > mythologizing going on right now that might prove difficult to live up > to > > I am not saying you are wrong, necessarily. However, I would like to throw > you a few links you may wish to read touching this subject from both > sides. I'm a wee bit creeped out to have accidentally arrived at the "wee bit creepy" lede in the Joe Klein piece. Good reading, though, and thanks. I should be clear that I really don't hold Obama or his campaign at all responsible for the slightly hysterical turn of his supporters. The whole hive-mind thing is scary to me whether it's for the greater good or not. If I may be the first to compare Obama to something, let it then be The Cure. Cure fans made me not like The Cure for a long time, because they seemd entirely antithetical to the individualist ethic of the band itself. But if I'd been following The Cure from an earlier stage (as I have the Obama campaign-- you know, to the extent that this metaphor can be expected to hang together), it would have been easier for me to say, oh well, a bunch of bandwagoneering tools do not ruin a good band, or a good campaign. (Yeah, I'm aware that all of the above sounds idiotic, but it's just to say, lookit, I'll be perfectly fine voting for Obama in November, as now looks inevitable. But there are a lot of weird signs in the culture right now-- on the other side even moreso; I'm starting to have not-implausible nightmares about Rush Limbaugh urging his supporters to take up machetes-- erm, shotguns-- and retake the Republican establishment by force. The national psyche is certainly going to get a big, overdue makeover between now and November... for the best, I can only hope...) - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:23:57 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: reap (inanimate) Namdaemun (1395-2008) James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 19:29:45 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: indeed On 2/11/08, Jeff Dwarf wrote: > > 2fs wrote: > > There's also the fact that (John Edwards)'s neither the > > "establishment" candidate (Clinton) nor a charismatic > > quasi-insurgent (Obama) - for whatever reasons, the press never > > cottoned much to him (witness the absurd Haircutgate - and the > > ridiculous traction given the right-wing "but he's a wealthy trail > > Great typo. Now that the writers are (almost) back to work, I think that'd make a great TV series (change the name): "Hank Pine, Trail Lawyer" about a crusty old lawyer who retires to the wilderness only to find his skills are still very much needed - both his legal skills and his wilderness skills. Coming this fall to a network near you. > > > And [McCain] behaves in a manner that demonstrates respect for people who > disagree with him; his behavior is moderate and respectful, which > gets interpreted as having moderate to progressive beliefs. Well, sometimes: he's also known for having a terrible temper. I will say that McCain actually seems to be a human being - this is something re most Republicans (hell, a lot of Dems too) that seems to be a bit in doubt. "Look honey - they have little electrical dealies in the grocery store that tell the worker bees what everything costs!" The fact that McCain is respectable (in the literal sense of the word) is what makes him a dangerous opponent for the Democrats. Rex wrote that the deification of Obama is a bit creepy and creates some impossible expectations - I'd agree, but I think also it shows how desperate a lot of voters are. I mean, yes, Obama's story is personally inspiring; yes, he did a lot of good work as a community organizer; yes, he was against the war before he was against it; and yes, he's a brilliant, charismatic speaker...but he's also a very canny politician, which is to say just like a lot of the folks from whom he's promising change: he's in Wall Street's pocket, he has surprising weaknesses among Latino and Asian voters; he's ultimately rather a centrist, despite being arguably more progressive than Hillary (as I've said, that last isn't all that difficult). I still maintain that Hillary's negatives outweigh Obama's, and Obama's positives outweigh his own negatives (at least, more so than Hillary's do). But I'm not expecting glorious sunbeams from heaven and flying unicorns spilling golden coins to arrive just if he's elected. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:51:27 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: reap (inanimate) On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 grutness@slingshot.co.nz wrote: > Namdaemun (1395-2008) > > What was that guy thinking.. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:54:33 -0500 From: Maximilian Lang Subject: RE: indeed Obama reminds me of Kennedy, great speeches but not a great deal of substance (though, Kennedy admittedly was not given a full chance to follow thorough). On a side note, I recently met someone who told me a humorous story about her nephew. This woman's nephew is a biracial child of 4, his Mother is caucasian and his Father is african-american. The child is obsessed with Barak Obama but is unable to pronounce Barak...it comes out O'bach, so it's O'bach Obama! Additionally he thinks that every black male is called O'bach Obama...including his father. Ever since I heard this story I can't even say Barak Obama, It just comes out O'bach Obama. Max > Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:34:40 -0500 > From: jlbrand@bu.edu > To: fegmaniax@smoe.org > Subject: indeed > > Benjamin wrote:" I have to say, all the Obama supporters seemed very > enthusiastic...but not that good at expressing WHY...whereas the few > Clinton supporters there were were a lot more eloquent." > > This is where I'm having the most difficulty. I voted for Obama in the > MA primary because I am afraid that Hillary is unelectable. However, the > above statement speaks volumes - I still don't really know what Obama's > platform is. Change is nice. Yes. But a few more specifics would be > helpful. > > Jill _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:05:35 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: "Premature Evaluation" of new R.E.M. by Matthew Perpetua (fluxblog, Pop Songs 08) from Stereogum: < http://stereogum.com/archives/premature-evaluation/premature-evaluation-rem-accelerate_008061.html > Well, what can I say: I think I'm actually gonna buy this when it comes out. Loud guitars, shorter and faster songs, no bloated running length? Plus: some Mike Mills vocals. Looks like they corrected a lot of what went wrong on the last [x] albums. (Note: it's probably linked from the above article, but there ws a link to a stream of the album's first single. Put "album" and "single" in quotes if you like.) - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 02:30:12 EST From: HwyCDRrev@aol.com Subject: lydon _http://men.style.com/details/features/full?id=content_6221_ (http://men.style.com/details/features/full?id=content_6221) John Lydon Uncut **************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. Go to AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 07:08:17 -0500 From: "SH McCleary" Subject: RE: Knitting Factory RH&V3 Print Query That is one pretty poster, Steve! DAMM DAMM DAMM? Sounds like Esther Rolle to me. ;) Try Nat Damm (natdamm@hotmail.com) Scott www.flickr.com/photos/prodigaldog/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 07:47:12 -0500 From: Steve Talkowski Subject: Re: Knitting Factory RH&V3 Print Query Hey Scott, Thanks so much! With name in hand, It was easy to find this: http://www.gigposters.com/poster/77118_Robyn_Hitchcock_And_The_Venus_3.html And, a wealth of his fantastic imagery: http://www.gigposters.com/designers.php?designer=15633 I've just begun perusing your flickr photos - lots of nice stuff contained within. Good Heavens Miss Yakamoto indeed! - -Steve On Feb 12, 2008, at 7:08 AM, SH McCleary wrote: > That is one pretty poster, Steve! > > DAMM DAMM DAMM? Sounds like Esther Rolle to me. ;) > > Try Nat Damm (natdamm@hotmail.com) > > Scott > > www.flickr.com/photos/prodigaldog/ - -- Steve Talkowski Character Design & Animation http://sketchbot.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 08:36:34 EST From: HwyCDRrev@aol.com Subject: NEW on DiME: The Soft Boys 11/21/78 Leicester University Leicester, England _http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=183456_ (http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=183456) The Soft Boys 11/21/78 Leicester University Leicester, England 44:05 minutes - AUD > ? > cdr > EAC Secure > FLAC Frontend > flac 1. Do the Chisel 2. The Return of the Sacred Crab 3. Mystery Train 4. Blues in the Dark 5. Sandra's Having Her Brain Out 6. The Pigworker 7. Skool Dinner Blues 8. The Rat's Prayer 9. Give it to the Soft Boys 10. Hear My Brane 11. Leppo and the Jooves 12. Have a Heart, Betty (I'm Not Fireproof) Do whatever you want with this recording, see if I care. **************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. Go to AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 07:59:50 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: why do they hate Hillary? Two columns from Stanley Fish in the NYT (the 2/3/08 and 2/10/08 entries): < http://fish.blogs.nytimes.com/>. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:53:34 EST From: HwyCDRrev@aol.com Subject: clash drummer _http://tinyurl.http://tin_ (http://tinyurl.com/2sngdp) Backache calling ... Nick Headon reveals the treatment that helped his back pain By NICK HEADON **************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. Go to AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:36:26 +0000 From: hssmrg@bath.ac.uk Subject: Reap Miles Kington http://tinyurl.com/29puwp - - MRG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:44:57 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: why do they hate Hillary? > Two columns from Stanley Fish in the NYT (the 2/3/08 and 2/10/08 entries): < > http://fish.blogs.nytimes.com/>. I can only speak for myself when I say that my dislike of Hillary Clinton stems for from a grating feeling of inauthenticity combined with a Tracy-Flick like aura of brittle self-entitlement. The arguments for both of these qualities have been articulated by many people and are easily available online, so I will not belabor the point; however I do think that to a certain extent, Fish overlooks the personality issue, which is very real for some people. I understand the Democratic old-guard love of Hillary, that group of Boomers who matured politically in the early 90s and feel that they have earned the right to take back the country from the Republicans. Truly, I sympathize with it. However, it seems that a large part of the Democratic party has moved on without them, and is ready to try something that isn't part of the Clinton machine. My own feelings are best encapsulated by Andrew Sullivan, I think, and I recommend his blog to anyone interested in this race: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish I'd also like to point out that of all the candidates, McCain has seemingly been getting the most easy treatment from the mainstream press. The fact he's still being seen as a "maverick" is ludicrous. Whatever you may think of Arianna Huffington, she's written a fairly solid piece on it here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/end-of-a-romance-why-the_b_ 86086.html - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:44:57 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: why do they hate Hillary? > Two columns from Stanley Fish in the NYT (the 2/3/08 and 2/10/08 entries): < > http://fish.blogs.nytimes.com/>. I can only speak for myself when I say that my dislike of Hillary Clinton stems for from a grating feeling of inauthenticity combined with a Tracy-Flick like aura of brittle self-entitlement. The arguments for both of these qualities have been articulated by many people and are easily available online, so I will not belabor the point; however I do think that to a certain extent, Fish overlooks the personality issue, which is very real for some people. I understand the Democratic old-guard love of Hillary, that group of Boomers who matured politically in the early 90s and feel that they have earned the right to take back the country from the Republicans. Truly, I sympathize with it. However, it seems that a large part of the Democratic party has moved on without them, and is ready to try something that isn't part of the Clinton machine. My own feelings are best encapsulated by Andrew Sullivan, I think, and I recommend his blog to anyone interested in this race: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish I'd also like to point out that of all the candidates, McCain has seemingly been getting the most easy treatment from the mainstream press. The fact he's still being seen as a "maverick" is ludicrous. Whatever you may think of Arianna Huffington, she's written a fairly solid piece on it here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/end-of-a-romance-why-the_b_ 86086.html - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:52:53 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: why do they hate Hillary? On Feb 12, 2008 9:44 AM, The Great Quail wrote: > > Two columns from Stanley Fish in the NYT (the 2/3/08 and 2/10/08 > entries): < > > http://fish.blogs.nytimes.com/>. > > I can only speak for myself when I say that my dislike of Hillary Clinton > stems for from a grating feeling of inauthenticity combined with a > Tracy-Flick like aura of brittle self-entitlement. "Feeling" and "aura" aren't very substantive, now, are they? Many Obama supporters cite his "aura" of authenticity while conceding that the policy differences between the two are slight at best. Auras? Are we all Shirley McClaine now? > > I understand the Democratic old-guard love of Hillary, that group of > Boomers > who matured politically in the early 90s and feel that they have earned > the > right to take back the country from the Republicans. Quail, how old are you? You constantly bash boomers, and you seem to identify yourself culturally as part of The Yout'. But unless you started posting here when you were 8, I'd say you're probably somewhere in between. Jeff D. cited Bill Maher's assertion that hating Hillary mostly says more about the person hating than her. Your flavor of hating her suggests Peter Pan Syndrome more than anything else. Exhibit B: concern about who will do more about video games. (I don't say this because of any past animosity between you and I; it's just that the way you frame all of your arguments on this issue as diary entries about your personal emotio-political journey invites this kind of analysis.) Why hate Hillary at all? Why not just argue in favor of Obama (as, for the most part, Obama does)? In fact, why bother at all, at this point, since Obama surely has the nomination clinched. Far and away most of the Dems/Lefties I know have been magnanimous about conceding that it's a good thing that two viable candidates emerged from this campaign... I still don't get all the bitterness on the internet. Hillary's about to become her generation's Ted Kennedy... that seems punishment enough. Final thought as Hillary's campaign boards the boat for the Elder Lands (sorry, Tolkien ref. approx.)... if the Republicans would really prefer to run against Hillary, why do they make such a point of saying so over and over again? I highly suspect reverse psychology there. And I think the Republicans genuinely believe they have a better chance against Obama, and many months to make him look foolish. I don't think that they will succeed, but I suspect that their tactics against an Obama nomination are just as well-crafted and nefarious as anything they could have thrown against Clinton. > I'd also like to point out that of all the candidates, McCain has > seemingly > been getting the most easy treatment from the mainstream press. The fact > he's still being seen as a "maverick" is ludicrous. > Ain't that the truth, though. "Liberal media" indeed. - -Rex, not a "boomer" by no stretch nohow ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #497 ********************************