From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #478 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Friday, February 1 2008 Volume 16 : Number 478 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Its Turbine Overflows ["Stacked Crooked" ] Re: cilantro: more than just a taste issue [Barbara Soutar ] Lots of covers by Of Montreal [Steve Schiavo ] in juliet landau news... [lep ] Re: cilantro: more than just a taste issue [kevin ] Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama [Michael Sweeney ] Re: in juliet landau news... [2fs ] Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama [2fs ] Re: in juliet landau news... ["Stewart Russell" ] attn. Jill Brand!... ["Stacked Crooked" ] Re: yet another iTunes WTF [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: joint ticket [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama [Rex ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 10:46:11 -0800 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: Its Turbine Overflows er, don't you mean go *the* giants??? i thought i heard that it got a new booking agent, or something. i still miss the breakroom -- always thought that it was a nice touch that they'd blow those fans onto the crowd during the showz. and the offramp is probably the most important one, being that it was name-checked by mia at the end of the live version of "Second Skin". shit...now i'm gonna have to go and listen to that song for twenty times in a row, and get all fucking depressed. wow. that's fucking *funny*! ummm...oh yeah! i guess it helps if you know that it was rather a long night; and that we ended up by being shat at by the fuzz with them shining a bright light on us for twenty-five years or something, after us having run a red light in the middle of downtown waterloo trying to drop off a fellow-feg (who didn't know how to find his house, even *after* he finally found the right exit, so i ended up begging the cops to tell us how to get there, even though all they wanted to do was lecture me about having run a red light at 4:00 in the morning when it was, like, -54,000 degrees outside) at 4:00 in the morning, when it was, like, -54,000 degrees outside. and that the cops gave us a seven-step guide to getting back on the 401, but that i, having surrendered the wheel to carissa, went to sleep after the first six steps, figuring we were safely 401-bound...and woke up to find that we were on the *7* (*not* a freeway). me: "uh, are we still on the 401?" carissa: "i'm not sure we ever got on the 401." me: "ah." i was struck by how *clean* london is. gawd, you just had to go and remind me how fucking much i hate the democrats, didn't you? i *will* be voting for nader for a fourth consecutive time...oh yes, i will. apropos, chomsky had a fairly witty remark at the end of a recent interview (at ): >>The Bush administration is really playing with fire [in Pakistan]. I don't think it has a lot of options at this point. If I were asked to recommend a policy I wouldn't know what to say. Except to try to withdraw support from the dictatorship and allow the popular forces to do something. The United States, for example, gave no support to the lawyers and their opposition. It could have. The United States is not all powerful, but it could have done something. But when Obama says, "Okay we'll bomb them," that's not very helpful.<< MDC, "John Wayne Was A Nazi" R.E.M., "Welcome To The Occupation" Woody Guthrie, "This Land Is Your Land" They Might Be Giants, "James K. Polk" Fugazi, "Nice New Outfit" The New Pornographers, "The Laws Have Changed" Mellencamp, "Rain On The Scarecrow" TOOL, "Opiate" Neil Young, "Rockin' In The Free World" Modest Mouse, "Cowboy Dan" The Scorpions, "Arizona" John Ashcroft, "Let The Eagle Soar" Dan Bern, "City Of Models" Radiohead, "No Surprises" Jello Biafra and Mojo Nixon, "Hamlet Chicken-Plant Disaster" Mr. Jones & The Fascists, "Ain't I A Woman?" Metallica, "Leper Messiah" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 10:07:26 -0800 From: Barbara Soutar Subject: Re: cilantro: more than just a taste issue The digests are coming so fast that I figure this might already have been answered but I offer this: The question was: "Has anyone else here heard/read about the cilantro aversion thing being genetic or being akin to an allergy?" I have a friend who has excellent taste in music but who says that cilantro is a horrid thing and that he just can't eat at Thai restaurants because they use it so freely. Personally I like it, and I couldn't figure out why he was always evading our invitations to a favourite local restaurant. He claims that there are certain people who can't tolerate cilantro, and that it doesn't taste like food to them. He has me convinced that it's more of an allergy than a taste preference. It's like MSG that way, a certain percentage of the population reacts badly to it. This is the guy who introduced me to Brian Eno and the 801 album back in the late 70's. Barbara Soutar Victoria, BC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:29:45 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: cilantro: more than just a taste issue On Feb 1, 2008 10:07 AM, Barbara Soutar wrote: > The digests are coming so fast that I figure this might already have been > answered but I offer this: > The digest velocity is making me start to see the letters in the words CILANTRO, CLINTON and OBAMA as part of the same weird continuum... - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:50:14 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama >On Feb 1, 2008 10:27 AM, Christopher Gross wrote: > >> >> Until recently I was torn between Obama and Edwards, with Obama having a >> slight lead, and Clinton in third place. But despite that, I remain free >> of Clintonophobia, and the whole phenomenon really baffles me. She's not >> exceptionally ruthless or sleazy, compared to other candidates for high >> office. Me I was liking Kucinich, although recognizing that he never had a snowball's chance. In re Hilary, I keep thinking about the 1976 Washington governor's election. Dixy Lee Ray, hard-right Democrat and former head of the AEC under Nixon, was elected governor in spite of her vigorous support for atomic energy and enormous resistance from the environmental community, which should have been political death in these parts, and I remember being flabbergasted because almost every woman I knew (lefties and hardcore 1970s-style feminists more or less all) told me proudly that they'd voted for her strictly on the basis of her gender. Not real surprisingly she was unpopoular as a governor, managing to alienate pretty much everybody - including her own campaign manager, who ran her opponent's campaign in the next election - but the lesson she taught me was, anything is possible in politics. And if enough women throw their support behind Hilary for the same gender-biased reason that Dixy got elected thirty years ago, even Karl Rove may not be able to stop her... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 13:48:54 -0600 From: Steve Schiavo Subject: Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama On Feb 1, 2008, at 12:03 PM, 2fs wrote: > Mormons are pretty much space aliens. May I quote you? - - Steve __________ I can't resist an anime that includes a small, cute, violence prone girl with a scythe. - John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:57:32 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama On Feb 1, 2008 11:50 AM, kevin wrote: > > >On Feb 1, 2008 10:27 AM, Christopher Gross wrote: > > > >> > >> Until recently I was torn between Obama and Edwards, with Obama having > a > >> slight lead, and Clinton in third place. But despite that, I remain > free > >> of Clintonophobia, and the whole phenomenon really baffles me. She's > not > >> exceptionally ruthless or sleazy, compared to other candidates for high > >> office. > > Me I was liking Kucinich, although recognizing that he never had a > snowball's chance. Same here. Alas. > In re Hilary, I keep thinking about the 1976 Washington governor's > election. Dixy Lee Ray, hard-right Democrat and former head of the AEC > under Nixon, was elected governor in spite of her vigorous support for > atomic energy and enormous resistance from the environmental community, > which should have been political death in these parts, and I remember being > flabbergasted because almost every woman I knew (lefties and hardcore > 1970s-style feminists more or less all) told me proudly that they'd voted > for her strictly on the basis of her gender. Ah. We had that here with Schwarzenegger. The stars got in the eyes of the Democrats, and people seemed to just think that it would be cool to elect a movie star. Didn't help that he was running against a really weak sitting governor, but it amazes me that most Dems are still on board with Arnold, even though the state is flat-out busted. But re: the comparison above: since Hillary isn't a rabid right-winger, we'll never know whether women would support, say, a female Huckabee on the basis of gender. I would hope not, at least on a national level, but thank god it won't be put to the test. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 14:01:00 -0600 From: Steve Schiavo Subject: Lots of covers by Of Montreal Over on the Audities list, Anna Borg of TallBoy Records pointed out this site with a bunch of covers by Of Montreal. - - Steve __________ I can't resist an anime that includes a small, cute, violence prone girl with a scythe. - John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 15:12:19 -0500 From: lep Subject: in juliet landau news... i don't recall this being mentioned onlist; apologies if it has. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0790788/ i'm always intrigued by the idea of turning a short story into a movie. in this case, it's very short - like 20 pages. xo p.s. i first heard of the short story either from something david foster wallace said, or an ex- who had a said a previous girlfriend had become preoccupied with the story (yes, i can recognize a red flag, but apparently, i choose to ignore them); i can't remember which. - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 12:45:16 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: cilantro: more than just a taste issue >I have a friend who has excellent taste in music but who says that cilantro is a horrid thing and that he just can't eat at Thai restaurants because they use it so freely. Personally I like it, and I couldn't figure out why he was always evading our invitations to a favourite local restaurant. He claims that there are certain people who can't tolerate cilantro, and that it doesn't taste like food to them. He has me convinced that it's more of an allergy than a taste preference. It's like MSG that way, a certain percentage of the population reacts badly to it. What I can't figure out is I never even heard of the stuff till a few years ago when suddenly it was everywhere. Made me feel like the Seinfeld episode where George's mother says "Merlot? I never heard of it. Did they just invent it?" >This is the guy who introduced me to Brian Eno and the 801 album back in the late 70's. 801 Live is one of the great undiscovered treasures of the 70's, ya ask me. That take of "Diamond Head" is to die for. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 12:51:07 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: in juliet landau news... >p.s. i first heard of the short story either from something david >foster wallace said, or an ex- who had a said a previous girlfriend >had become preoccupied with the story (yes, i can recognize a red >flag, but apparently, i choose to ignore them); i can't remember >which. That is so one of the creepiest, most depressing things I've read. And somewhere around here is an old tape of a two-hour movie based on it, from Masterpiece Theater or something, that's every bit as creepy. But in a very hi-tone, BBC sort of way. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:04:46 +0000 From: Michael Sweeney Subject: Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama That's a very strong "Word!" from me on about 99.99% of what Der Quailmeister wrote below (too trenchant and right on to snip...and too onerous to ">" up in my oft-balky e-mail program). I've been a big Obama backer since watching the first-heated, then-strange, then-uplifting '04 senatorial race that brought him to national prominence. I was honestly surprised -- and proud -- that my home state (which, quite frankly, away from Chicago, the capital of Springfield, and a few college towns, can be about as progressive as Alabama or Utah) elected a Barack (not a "Barry;" not a "Rock") Obama as senator. Also, I definitely agree on the "Obama would help HRC" thought, and add that Obama _wouldn't_ necessarily need her (Webb might be a decent choice for him, as well)...plus, her huge ego (not a knock; you NEED one to run for Prez) AND her previous long-time front-runner status would likely make VP a tough pill for her to swallow. I also agree HRC is sharp, but, as for her purely "political" acumen, it is nowhere near the natural, easy charm and charisma of her hubby. (Much like the old saw about Astaire/Rogers -- "She gives him sex appeal and he gives her class" -- the Clintons probably boil down to "He gives her charisma and she gives him gravitas.") I, too, would gladly (easily; without a second's hesitation) pull the lever / poke the stylus / touch the screen / hang the chad for Hillary if she is the choice come November...but I am very happy to have not only another choice now, but actually the ONE choice I would prefer. I had hopes for Jimmy Carter...and definitely appreciated (through all the faults) Bill Clinton...but, for the first time in my 45 years on this planet, I would be ecstatic (not something the pragmatic and pessimistic me easily or often says) about the next 4, 8 years if Barack Obama is elected president. (...of course, YOUR choices / preferences may vary...but I feel pretty good about "our" chances -- my early prediction: if Hillary is the nominee, she wins a closer electoral contest, approx. 280-258; if it's Obama, he wins bigger, say, 330-208 (note: there may also be a conservative 3rd-party candidate who would take votes -- and may even take Electora College votes (less likely) -- from the GOP candidate...)) Michael "Happy days are here again..." Sweeney - ---------------------------------------- The Great Quail Subject: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama> . Hillary and Barrack> could be the fucking *Beatles*, it's that good of an idea,I understand where you are coming from, Rex, but I think this idea of a"dream ticket" overlooks two important issues.First, neither candidate has any desire to be stuck in the role ofvice-president, which would result constant tension. Imagine yourself aseither Obama or Clinton -- how much trust could you really put in your XO?Granted, they are in 95% agreement on almost everything, but there is a verylarge issues of ego here.More importantly, it overlooks the fact that Hillary Clinton is such apolarizing and divisive figure -- even among many Democrats, let aloneIndependents and moderate Republicans. I think that adding Obama toClinton's ticket would only help her, and maybe even secure a Novembervictory. Whereas adding Clinton to Obama's ticket would be like addingcilantro to an already appealing but somewhat exotic dish -- some wouldcertainly do back flips; but others would push back the plate and order theMcCainburger. I speak from the heart of New York City, where I am surrounded by Obamasupporters. And I can tell you this - -- no one I talk to even *likes*Clinton, and a few have even confessed that they'd pull the lever for McCainover Clinton. This is a real issue. Even my die-hard pro-Bush pro-McCainsemi-racist parents like Obama more than Clinton; and would rather see Obamaas president than Hillary.I firmly believe this -- Clinton is a brilliant woman and a consummatepolitician. But if the democrats nominate her against McCain, they are, onceagain, committing national suicide. Just talk to any Republican and see whothey'd rather run against -- there's a reason they fear Obama and praiseClinton. - --QuailPS: As if it weren't clear where I stand... I was an Al Gore hopeful, butwhen I realized he was content to let history pass him by, I became a prettyserious Obama supporter. I dislike Hillary Clinton for numerous reasons,from her generationally ignorant PMRC-like stance against video games to herpolitical hypocrisy over Iraq and labor unions to her Tracy Flickesque auraof entitlement. If Clinton is nominated, I will still vote for her, but witheven more disgust and dismay than I had when I pulled the lever for Dukakisand Kerry. _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 13:23:45 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama On Feb 1, 2008 1:04 PM, Michael Sweeney wrote: > > I, too, would gladly (easily; without a second's hesitation) pull the > lever / > poke the stylus / touch the screen / hang the chad for Hillary if she is > the > choice come November...but I am very happy to have not only another choice > now, but actually the ONE choice I would prefer. I had hopes for Jimmy > Carter...and definitely appreciated (through all the faults) Bill > Clinton...but, for the first time in my 45 years on this planet, I would > be > ecstatic (not something the pragmatic and pessimistic me easily or often > says) > about the next 4, 8 years if Barack Obama is elected president There's a hell of a lot of excitement and optimism in the air either way. And I am not used to that. At all. Feels funny. But good > > > (...of course, YOUR choices / preferences may vary...but I feel pretty > good > about "our" chances -- my early prediction: if Hillary is the nominee, > she > wins a closer electoral contest, approx. 280-258; if it's Obama, he wins > bigger, say, 330-208 (note: there may also be a conservative 3rd-party > candidate who would take votes -- and may even take Electora College votes > (less likely) -- from the GOP candidate...)) > That last idea is a very good one, Praise Jesus. How can I help make that happen-- just by acting faggy or something? - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 15:32:59 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: in juliet landau news... On 2/1/08, lep wrote: > > i don't recall this being mentioned onlist; apologies if it has. > > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0790788/ > > i'm always intrigued by the idea of turning a short story into a > movie. in this case, it's very short - like 20 pages. True...although in many ways it's easier to adapt a short story than a novel to a movie - novels are just too long, typically. People imagine novel=movie because they're both, roughly, the longest of their format...but that doesn't make them equivalent. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 15:53:53 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama On 2/1/08, Christopher Gross wrote: > > > Until recently I was torn between Obama and Edwards, with Obama having a > slight lead, and Clinton in third place. But despite that, I remain free > of Clintonophobia, and the whole phenomenon really baffles me. She's not > exceptionally ruthless or sleazy, compared to other candidates for high > office. And it can't be simple misogyny, either, as her husband seems to > rouse the same emotions. I have yet to hear a good explanation for the > phenomenon. While we're at it - the best candidate of the Dems was definitely Kucinich - even though his campaign slogan should've been "Avalanche or Roadblock"... Anyway: I think the animosity directed at the Clintons is part generational, part misogynist, and part a reaction to Bill's charm/sleaze. That last is, apparently, a very real, powerful thing: a friend of mine, a long-time Dem but not particularly a B. Clinton fan, had the chance to see him speak...and was just powerfully affected by how charismatic the man is. I imagine when you look like Newt Gingrich, that's a problem. The misogyny part is somewhat obvious where Hillary is concerned, but I think the fact that the Clintons were the first presidential couple who grew up in an era when working women were more or less taken for granted, where she was clearly not an appendage to Bill but a powerful person in her own right, rubbed a lot of old-school folks the wrong way. I think they thought Bill couldn't be a "real man" under such circumstances (google "hillary dominatrix"...) - and then, of course, his infidelities, and her not either cowering tearfully or getting out, made those same folks weirded out about what their marriage really was about. All of that ties into the generational thing - remember the kerfuffle over "I did not inhale"? Fact is, anyone of Clinton's age or younger who truly never has even once inhaled is probably too socially inept to be president - it was just what people did, and it astonished me even then what an issue some folks made of it. I dunno, really...but there needs to be *some* explanation for the bizarre way much of the public thinks of the Clintons as ultraliberal...when they're nowhere near it, certainly not economically, and only barely on social issues. I was talking to someone else about the role racism and sexism might play in this election, and I realized that the way those things play out has different effects depending on the particular situation. That is, I think a lot of folks secretly aren't willing to vote for a woman, even though in their daily lives they might not exhibit any particularly sexist behavior. But the people who won't vote for Obama solely because he's black (that is, who might otherwise vote for him) are, I think, relatively rare - bluntly, I think his maleness trumps his blackness, and the way he carries himself is a very traditionally masculine, "leader"like style. As to which of the two of them would be likelier to be able to catch a cab on the streets, well, see, now that's a different variety of discrimination (Hillary, obv.) In some ways, I think Obama's *name* might be the thing that really causes some people private freakouts in the ballot booth. Even on the left, there's a whole lot of animosity on the issue of immigration (check out recent letters columns in _The Nation_, for example), and I think a lot of that, particularly from older people, stems from a fear that America isn't "America-like" anymore. And, odd thought it might sound, I think somewhere in the back of the minds of such folks is the idea that an America with a "President Obama" just isn't the same place as it once was (of course, they're right - but not in the way they fear). It's irrelevant that Obama was born here, etc. - and of course, the right-wing smear machine is working overtime to claim he's a secret Muslim, to ridiculously try to make anything of his middle name, etc. I think all that is going to affect him more negatively than his race per se. Because flat-out racists are unlikely to have voted even for a white Democrat (excepting some of your southern Dixiecrat types): they won't cost Obama any votes. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 17:07:24 -0500 From: "Stewart Russell" Subject: Re: in juliet landau news... Y'know, I thought you guys were talking about TYW before I checked the link. I adore the story - so perfectly demented and sad. Stewart On 2/1/08, 2fs wrote: > On 2/1/08, lep wrote: > > > > i don't recall this being mentioned onlist; apologies if it has. > > > > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0790788/ > > > > i'm always intrigued by the idea of turning a short story into a > > movie. in this case, it's very short - like 20 pages. > > > > True...although in many ways it's easier to adapt a short story than a novel > to a movie - novels are just too long, typically. People imagine novel=movie > because they're both, roughly, the longest of their format...but that > doesn't make them equivalent. > > > -- > > ...Jeff Norman > > The Architectural Dance Society > http://spanghew.blogspot.com > - -- http://scruss.com/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:12:33 -0800 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: attn. Jill Brand!... ...(and others): the torrent of my recording (and including lots of photos) of last night's decemberists show is up and running at . have a lot of fun. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 11:13:59 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: yet another iTunes WTF >On Jan 31, 2008 10:55 PM, ><grutness@slingshot.co.nz> wrote: > > >except, of course, that the year would also be twentyfive-fourtyone, >in the same way 1984 isn't one thousand nine hundred and eighty-four >in everyday speech. Great song, BTW (2541, that is) - Robert >Forster's cover of it isn't bad either, but the single mix of Grant >hart;'s original is best of all. > >Yes on all counts. One of those songs that you recognize as perfect >the first time you hear it. Simple catchy tune and fantastic use of lyrics - I love the (looks up term) syllepsis of "everything is over, everything is done, everything's in boxes" and the double use of "first and last". It's also a damned easy one to play, and one I've performed live more than a couple of times. James (or is it a zeugma?) - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 11:22:21 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: joint ticket TGQ wrote: >I speak from the heart of New York City [...] a few have even >confessed that they'd pull the lever for McCain over Clinton. I thought the death penalty had been suspended in NY. ;) James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 14:54:54 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama On Feb 1, 2008 1:53 PM, 2fs wrote: > > Anyway: I think the animosity directed at the Clintons is part > generational, > part misogynist, and part a reaction to Bill's charm/sleaze. That last is, > apparently, a very real, powerful thing: a friend of mine, a long-time Dem > but not particularly a B. Clinton fan, had the chance to see him > speak...and > was just powerfully affected by how charismatic the man is. My 6-year-old daughter went nuts for him just based on a TV appearance. That surprised me. My kids-- you know, they're all LA and stuff, but the idea of a female president excites them, whereas I don't think the idea that Obama isn't white even enters their minds. They like him too, though. I think they thought > Bill couldn't be a "real man" under such circumstances (google "hillary > dominatrix"...) - I'll pass on that suggestion. But I am also a little befuddled by the fact that Ms. Clinton is often portrayed as hideous... she's really not unattractive at all. Or is that just me? All of that ties into the generational thing - remember the kerfuffle over > "I did not inhale"? Fact is, anyone of Clinton's age or younger who truly > never has even once inhaled is probably too socially inept to be president > - > it was just what people did, and it astonished me even then what an issue > some folks made of it. It was so stupid, and so obviously stupid, that I don't think it'll ever be an issue again, thankfully (see also "Gary Hart" and "infidelity"). I remain a little disappointed that Bill C. gave it enough credence to make up that silly "inhaling" dodge. I dunno, really...but there needs to be *some* explanation for the bizarre > way much of the public thinks of the Clintons as ultraliberal...when > they're > nowhere near it, certainly not economically, and only barely on social > issues. Yeah. To paraphrase fIREHOSE, that's the Riddle of the '90's. That and the "Slick Willy" thing-- did Clinton really seem any more or less disinguous and crafty than any other President, or any other politician? And the final poser: why did anyone ever, and why do they continue to, openly mock Hillary for her "vast right wing conspiracy" remarks? She was absolutely correct. No, perhaps the RNC and its allies were not meeting in a secret volcano lair collaborating against the Clintons, but there was a feverish mania among the right to try and pin something, anything on Bill Clinton and make it, pun sadly intended, stick. And they pulled it off, too. Dammit. - -Rex ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #478 ********************************