From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #477 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Friday, February 1 2008 Volume 16 : Number 477 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: puppet Spike [lep ] Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! [Rex ] Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama [Rex ] Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! [2fs ] Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! [2fs ] Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama [2fs ] Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! [2fs ] Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! [2fs ] Re: Another quick Feg survey [2fs ] Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama [2fs ] Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama [Christopher Gross ] Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama [Rex ] Re: American tunes [HwyCDRrev@aol.com] Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama [Rex ] Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! [kevin ] Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama [Rex ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:36:28 -0500 From: lep Subject: Re: puppet Spike jeff 2fs says: > On 1/31/08, Capuchin wrote: > > > > On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, 2fs wrote: > > > Um, I think this would have been a "good thing" on the level that if > > > Wesley were a human being > > > > Well, see, that's the part I don't get. Wesley's not a human being. > > Never was, never will be. He was invented to tell a story and if he were > > played out different at all, he wouldn't be Wesley becaues that wouldn't > > be Wesley's story. He'd be a different guy... named Wesley (so it's still > > Wesley's story but... fuck. You get the idea.). > > > > It's exactly being able to hold both thoughts in your head at once. i always liked what f. scott fitzgerald had to say on this subject: "the test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." xo - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 08:39:02 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! On Feb 1, 2008 1:18 AM, craigie* wrote: > > > On 01/02/2008, 2fs wrote: > > > > > > that said, my favorite version of "Hurt" is the > > one my friend Steve sent me, where it was worked into a medley of > > Christmas > > songs retrofitted with NIN lyrics. "Hurt" was done to the tune of > > "Little > > Drummer Boy," sung by a guy who sounded kinda like TMBG's "aren't you > > the > > guy that hit me in the eye?" part of "Fingertips"..."I hurt myself > > today, > > pah-rumpa-pum-pum..." It's what Trent deserves - being turned into a > > comedy > > Christmas number. > > > Must. hear. this. > > send me a link, please! or send me the mp3... > > I'm not fussy... > > no. really. not fussy. > Yeah, me too. Want. Jeff is the King of Christmas Oddities. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 09:22:28 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama On Feb 1, 2008 7:22 AM, The Great Quail wrote: > > I understand where you are coming from, Rex, Now, I doubt that very seriously, based on your past history of misinterpreting where I'm coming from in every particular, but what the heck: First, neither candidate has any desire to be stuck in the role of > vice-president, which would result constant tension. Imagine yourself as > either Obama or Clinton -- how much trust could you really put in your XO? > Granted, they are in 95% agreement on almost everything, but there is a > very > large issues of ego here. Maybe, but different signals were being sent last night, and it looks like these two candidates may be in a dead heat for the forseeable future... and they seem to be reconciling themselves to that reality. That changes the outlook. More importantly, it overlooks the fact that Hillary Clinton is such a > polarizing and divisive figure -- even among many Democrats, let alone > Independents and moderate Republicans. I've come to the conclusion that this canard is not as true as many would have us believe. The media, the pundits, and of course the right wing extremists repeat this common wisdom all the time, but Hillary remains popular and continues to do well anyway. I don't buy it any more. Besides which, vast numbers of people hated W's ass quite passionately, but he still won the election. The second one, at least. > I think that adding Obama to > Clinton's ticket would only help her, and maybe even secure a November > victory. Whereas adding Clinton to Obama's ticket would be like adding > cilantro to an already appealing but somewhat exotic dish -- some would > certainly do back flips; but others would push back the plate and order > the > McCainburger. > Agreed that Obama would help Clinton's ticket more than the other way around. And also that the ego issues make that combo more likely. > > I speak from the heart of New York City, where I am surrounded by Obama > supporters. And I can tell you this -- no one I talk to even *likes* > Clinton, and a few have even confessed that they'd pull the lever for > McCain > over Clinton. I speak from the heart of Silver Lake California, which sure as hell no less liberal than NYC, and what I hear is talk of a "win-win" situation, people pretty damned happy with both candidates. A local preference is given to Obama, but there's a general sense that all is well and an eagerness to get either or both of them out there against the Republicans. (I tend to forget you're from NYC-- you seem so very midwestern in your outlook.) > Just talk to any Republican and see who > they'd rather run against -- there's a reason they fear Obama and praise > Clinton. I haven't heard any of them praising her, but of course they would rather run against Hillary, because they think they can demonize her in a way that I don't believe they really can. I believe a lot of people, yourself apparently and predictably included, went into this campaign cycle thinking Hillary was unelectable (and maybe that Giuliani was a lock), and have been unwilling to take notice of the fact that it just hasn't turned out that way... and these days, the talk about what a "polarizing" figure she is invariably comes out sounding bitter and tone-deaf, which only strengthens her chances. Mind you, I do like Obama quite a bit as well. > PS: As if it weren't clear where I stand... I was an Al Gore hopeful, but > when I realized he was content to let history pass him by, I became a > pretty > serious Obama supporter. I dislike Hillary Clinton for numerous reasons, > from her generationally ignorant PMRC-like stance against video games You're kidding, right? And if you're not, that's really the first knock you come out with against Hillary? Somehow, in the confusion of all the other issues at hand, I haven't bothered to research where *any* of the candidates stand on Grand Theft Auto or Sonic the Hedgehog. Paint me as "generationally ignorant" as well, I guess... I'm 36, but I just haven't maintained a passionate interest in gaming since my Colecovision bit the dust in 1985. Postscript: in what parallel universe are the Republicans living where Reagan has become such an unassailable demigod? Now *that* was a pretty gross debate... those guys could only be bothered to leave off dry-humping Ronnie's corpse when it came time to claw each other's eyeballs out over "straight talk". - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:30:33 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! > In a message dated 2/1/2008 7:48:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > kevinstudyvin@earthlink.net writes: > And in the process creating pretty much the definitive reading. Give it > up > for the Dominos. And somebody explain how after they fell apart Jim > Gordon > wound up playing for Frank Zappa during his more-or-less-straight jazz > period...? He wasn't a regular player - he played on only a couple tracks - notably the three-way jam "Apostrophe" which was Zappa, Jack Bruce, and Gordon. In fact that might've been the only track he did with Zappa. Someone else can do the heavy lifting of looking it up... ;-) But why is playing w/Zappa "worse" (see below)? Anyway: yeah, Gordon's story is one of the more fucked-up in rock - rather tragic. On 2/1/08, HwyCDRrev@aol.com wrote:well- it got even worse for gordon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki > > /Jim_Gordon_%28musician%29 > > Retirement and incarceration > In the late 1970s, Gordon complained of hearing voices in his head. He > was > later diagnosed with acute paranoid schizophrenia, which had > been worsened by > a cocaine addiction. By 1981, this situation ended his music career. > On 3 June 1983, Gordon bludgeoned his mother with a hammer and > then stabbed > her to death with a butcher's knife. In May 1984 he was sentenced > to sixteen > years to life in prison. He has served his sentence at the > California Men's > Colony in San Luis Obispo, Atascadero State Hospital in Atascadero, > and the > State Medical Corrections Facility in Vacaville. He is > still incarcerated. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 > - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:33:13 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! On 2/1/08, 2fs wrote: > > In a message dated 2/1/2008 7:48:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > kevinstudyvin@earthlink.net writes: > > And in the process creating pretty much the definitive reading. Give > > it up > > for the Dominos. And somebody explain how after they fell apart Jim > > Gordon > > wound up playing for Frank Zappa during his more-or-less-straight jazz > > period...? > > > He wasn't a regular player - he played on only a couple tracks - notably > the three-way jam "Apostrophe" which was Zappa, Jack Bruce, and Gordon. In > fact that might've been the only track he did with Zappa. Someone else can > do the heavy lifting of looking it up... ;-) > I lied: According to Wikipedia, Gordon's work with FZ includes the following: - Frank Zappa *Apostrophe*; *Ldther*; *Over-nite Sensation*; *The Guitar World According to Frank Zappa* , *Grand Wazoo Big Band Tour* I don't think he played on all of Lather or Overnite Sensation, but the Wazoo tour is more or less jazz, yes. (The Zappa/Bruce/Gordon track isn't - it's pretty straightforward riff-rock) But why is playing w/Zappa "worse" (see below)? Anyway: yeah, Gordon's story > is one of the more fucked-up in rock - rather tragic. > On 2/1/08, HwyCDRrev@aol.com wrote:well- it got even > worse for gordon > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki > > > > /Jim_Gordon_%28musician%29 > > > > Retirement and incarceration > > In the late 1970s, Gordon complained of hearing voices in his head. He > > was > > later diagnosed with acute paranoid schizophrenia, which had > > been worsened by > > a cocaine addiction. By 1981, this situation ended his music career. > > On 3 June 1983, Gordon bludgeoned his mother with a hammer and > > then stabbed > > her to death with a butcher's knife. In May 1984 he was sentenced > > to sixteen > > years to life in prison. He has served his sentence at the > > California Men's > > Colony in San Luis Obispo, Atascadero State Hospital in Atascadero, > > and the > > State Medical Corrections Facility in Vacaville. He is > > still incarcerated. > > > > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. > > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 > > > > > > -- > > ...Jeff Norman > > The Architectural Dance Society > http://spanghew.blogspot.com - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:41:18 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama On 2/1/08, The Great Quail wrote: > > > > More importantly, it overlooks the fact that Hillary Clinton is such a > polarizing and divisive figure -- even among many Democrats, let alone > Independents and moderate Republicans. I think that adding Obama to > Clinton's ticket would only help her, and maybe even secure a November > victory. Whereas adding Clinton to Obama's ticket would be like adding > cilantro to an already appealing but somewhat exotic dish -- some would > certainly do back flips; but others would push back the plate and order > the > McCainburger. > > I speak from the heart of New York City, where I am surrounded by Obama > supporters. And I can tell you this -- no one I talk to even *likes* > Clinton, and a few have even confessed that they'd pull the lever for > McCain > over Clinton. This is a real issue. Even my die-hard pro-Bush pro-McCain > semi-racist parents like Obama more than Clinton; and would rather see > Obama > as president than Hillary. > > I firmly believe this -- Clinton is a brilliant woman and a consummate > politician. But if the democrats nominate her against McCain, they are, > once > again, committing national suicide. Just talk to any Republican and see > who > they'd rather run against -- there's a reason they fear Obama and praise > Clinton. I think Quail has it exactly right. This is exactly the scenario through which the Dems could, unbelievably, lose the upcoming election - even given our fucked-up economy, fucked-up war, fucked-up world image, fucked-up democracy, etc. Because the qualities McCain is perceived to have - integrity, experience, frankness - are exactly the qualities Clinton is perceived to lack. And that means nearly all the wandering center (who exactly are these idiots, btw, who don't see the clear political diffs between the two - Clinton being center-right, and McCain, despite a few relatively progressive positions, being hard-right?) will drift to McCain - cuz, see, he's not perceived as responsible for our fucked-upness. Would HRC have guts enough to point at the surge, heavily backed by McCain, and that it's not working? Doubtful, doubtful, doubtful... Of the so-called viable candidates when the race began, I preferred Edwards. But even though I have pretty strong reservations about some of Obama's positions (he's awfully damned close to big banking & finance, for instance), he's preferable to McCain. And I think we can't overlook the intangibles: clearly, he's a very intelligent guy (that would be a huge change...), and his charisma does inspire a lot of people. And of course, symbolically if nothing else, electing a black man as President will create a lot of hope among African-Americans. (Note throughout when I say things like "perceived," etc. - I think McCain actually has far less integrity than everyone says. I also think "experience" is mostly a bogus criterion: intelligence and flexibility are much more important, and probably the collective experience, intelligence, and versatility of the administration as a whole is even more important.) - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:45:57 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! On 2/1/08, Rex wrote: > > > ah, me too. Want. > > Jeff is the King of Christmas Oddities. > No no no no no no...everything I know about Christmas Oddities I learned from my buddy Steve , who annually puts out a Christmas mix jampacked full of oddities, obscurities, weirdness, and also just plain great songs. I appreciate the praise - but I must defer. I'm maybe the Assistant Vice-Secretary of Administration in the office of Bauxite Processing division of Regional Development of Christmas Oddities - Steve's the King. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:47:47 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! On 2/1/08, Rex wrote: > > > > > > Must. hear. this. > > > > send me a link, please! or send me the mp3... > > > > > Yeah, me too. Want. > here 'tis: - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:48:43 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Another quick Feg survey On 2/1/08, Brian Hoare wrote: > > > > Save your heart for the man who would not forget that 15 is a member of > the > set of 2^n-1 which are usually pleasant numbers and important for being a > sequence of 1's in binary. However its neighbours 7 and 31 are more > appealing. > Also belongs to 2^n^n-1 and 2^2^2... -1. Is it just me, or is getting pretty steamy in this room? - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 12:03:41 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama On 2/1/08, Rex wrote: > > On Feb 1, 2008 7:22 AM, The Great Quail wrote: > > > More importantly, it overlooks the fact that Hillary Clinton is such a > > polarizing and divisive figure -- even among many Democrats, let alone > > Independents and moderate Republicans. > > > I've come to the conclusion that this canard is not as true as many would > have us believe. The media, the pundits, and of course the right wing > extremists repeat this common wisdom all the time, but Hillary remains > popular and continues to do well anyway. I think that being able to do well in party primaries in a handful of unrepresentative states doesn't necessarily correspond to being able to do well in a general, nationwide election. Your Giuliani comparison doesn't really work...because while Hillary-hatred is well-attested outside the media (one of a zillion examples: my brother-in-law made BB gun targets out of her picture in the '90s...), Giuliani-mania is...not. I mean, sure, inevitably people liked him because he acted all leaderlike after 9/11 - but (a) his actual leadership was less praiseworthy, according to several accounts I've read or read of, and (b) I think even in NYC people realize there's much more to being president than being able to evoke 9/11 every five minutes. And, of course, Rudy would never fly as a Republican, because the Jesoids would have a heart attack. They'd probably even rather support Romney (and to them, Mormons are pretty much space aliens) than Rudy. I think they'd rather support Kang and/or Kodos than Rudy... I don't buy it any more. Besides > which, vast numbers of people hated W's ass quite passionately, but he > still > won the election. The second one, at least. There's a "Greg Palast" holding for you on line 1... It's debatable* whether Bush really won '04 either. And, sadly, Republicans have shown greater skill at pulling together their unlikely coalition, and appealing to Joe Average Non-Political Guy, than the Dems have. Thus my comments in last post re the wandering center & the appeal of McCain to that crowd. * not to be construed as "let's have that debate again!" > > way... and these days, the talk about what a "polarizing" figure she is > invariably comes out sounding bitter and tone-deaf, which only strengthens > her chances. I'm gonna disagree with this, too. As I said: I've *heard* anti-Clinton people, and they will not not not listen to reason: for them, she's the anti-Christ. And the left is very iffy on her as well (for good reason). If she's the candidate, and if she wins, it will be due to votes from a whole lot of people who held their nose at the time. One key aspect of this election is going to be enthusiasm and willingness to go out and get people to vote who haven't in the past. If Clinton's the Dems' nominee, that might dissipate the momentum they have in this department (see: unenthusiastic support), while the Republicans might be invigorated by the realization that suddenly, the albatross of "we're the same old hard right" is off their necks...because, ridiculously, and because he keeps getting blowjobs from the press, yr average not-all-that-well-informed American thinks McCain is a "moderate" or a "maverick"... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 13:27:43 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama Apparently Rex is not entirely willing to let bygones be bygones. I'd recommend to him that he reconsider this. And I'd further recommend to the Quail that he should let bygones be bygones, no matter what anyone else does. And that's all I'm going to say on that point. Anyway, I have to agree with the Quail that Clinton has too many people who hate her, making her a less viable candidate than Obama. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying a majority of the country hates her, or anything like a majority. But it doesn't need to be anything near a majority. Just a modest minority of Hillary-haters, if they're concentrated among swing voters, could be enough to tip the election. Especially if Clintonophobia also re-energizes a lot of currently discourage Republicans who might otherwise stay home on election day. Right now that possibility worries me a lot more than the fear that racist whites won't vote for a black candidate. And what *really* scares me is the possible matchup of Clinton, falsely seen by the public as a far-left radical, against McCain, falsely seen by the public as an opponent of more than two of George W. Bush's policies. On the other hand, my dream matchup is Obama vs. Romney. I'd rest easy in that case. Until recently I was torn between Obama and Edwards, with Obama having a slight lead, and Clinton in third place. But despite that, I remain free of Clintonophobia, and the whole phenomenon really baffles me. She's not exceptionally ruthless or sleazy, compared to other candidates for high office. And it can't be simple misogyny, either, as her husband seems to rouse the same emotions. I have yet to hear a good explanation for the phenomenon. I agree with everyone that Obama as veep would help Clinton more than the other way around. More interesting to me is the question of who else might be a vice-presidential candidate. Edwards is an obvious idea, but I'm not sure he's interested. Al Gore is a really neat idea, but again, I'm not sure he'd want it. I've heard Kansas Governor Sebelius and Virginia Governor Kaine mentioned as possibilities. Anyone else? - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:35:20 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama On Feb 1, 2008 10:03 AM, 2fs wrote: > > way... and these days, the talk about what a "polarizing" figure she is > invariably comes out sounding bitter and tone-deaf, which only strengthens > her chances. > > I'm gonna disagree with this, too. As I said: I've *heard* anti-Clinton > people, and they will not not not listen to reason: for them, she's the > anti-Christ. And the left is very iffy on her as well (for good reason). If > she's the candidate, and if she wins, it will be due to votes from a whole > lot of people who held their nose at the time. > My point, though, is that these anti-Clinton voices are louder than they are numerous, and the more loudly and stridently they insist on her AntiChristism, the more the general public compares that to what she's actually putting forth and concludes it's hysterical. Ironically, I think the same thing worked in Bush's favor in '04-- we who hated him sounded too hysterical to the mainstream (although we sadly were completely correct). And again, it may just be where I live-- and the fact that my peer group has aged along with me (and notably, in many cases, reproduced), but I hear more enthusians about both Clinton and Obama than I ever did about Kerry, or, for that reason, the pre-rehabilitation Al Gore (to say nothing of your Dukaki, etc.) > One key aspect of this election is going to be enthusiasm and willingness > to go out and get people to vote who haven't in the past. If Clinton's the > Dems' nominee, that might dissipate the momentum they have in this > department (see: unenthusiastic support), The chance to elect a woman, or for that matter a minority, may have more pull than you assume. The sad reality is that some who dislike both Obama and/or Clinton do so out of bigotry (not that they'd cop to it). The flipside of that, and the unbroken unrepresentative history of White Guy Presidents forevar, will mean that the chance to make history will bring people to the polls. It has a pull on me-- I will admit to that. And I know I'm not the only one by a long shot. Also, to make my own position clear, I'm not an old-school slobbering Clintonite. I didn't vote for Bill the second time around (my protest vote went to That One Other Green Guy); I favored Bill Bradley over Gore and profoundly disliked Gore's campaign tactics, and I've tended to view Hillary's Senate career and obvious Presidential ambitions as rather cynical. As this campaign has unfolded, I've changed my mind. It can happen. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 13:36:21 EST From: HwyCDRrev@aol.com Subject: Re: American tunes Ray Charles - America The Beautiful Jimi - Star Spangled Banner **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:38:27 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama On Feb 1, 2008 9:41 AM, 2fs wrote: > (Note throughout when I say things like "perceived," etc. - I think > McCain > actually has far less integrity than everyone says. I also think > "experience" is mostly a bogus criterion: intelligence and flexibility are > much more important, and probably the collective experience, intelligence, > and versatility of the administration as a whole is even more important.) > Part of me is scared that McCain has the charm to pull if off, but I think he has enough of a tendency to shoot his mouth off -- "a hundred more years in Iraq??!?!?!??"-- that he'll end up being too "maverick" for his own good. Plus his creepy smile makes me think he wants to cook and eat my children. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:44:18 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! >He wasn't a regular player - he played on only a couple tracks - notably the >three-way jam "Apostrophe" which was Zappa, Jack Bruce, and Gordon. In fact >that might've been the only track he did with Zappa. Someone else can do the >heavy lifting of looking it up... ;-) > >But why is playing w/Zappa "worse" (see below)? Anyway: yeah, Gordon's story >is one of the more fucked-up in rock - rather tragic. As a serious FZ supporter since I first heard the MOI masterpiece Uncle Meat in 19 and 71, I would never have suggested that playing for Zappa was "worse" - is just seems a little incongruous as a segue from D & tha D. And if you were checking out the steady stream of posthumous releases Zappa's wife has foisted on the world (a hugely mixed blessing, I gotta say) you'd be aware that Gordon held down the percussion chair in both the Grand Wazoo and Petit Wazoo lineups throughout '72 - see the hugely listenable (all-instrumental) live set Imaginary Diseases, released last year, and the recent live set from the Grand Wazoo orchestra - which I haven't heard yet, but it's definitely on my birthday list... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:48:26 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: On Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama On Feb 1, 2008 10:27 AM, Christopher Gross wrote: > > Until recently I was torn between Obama and Edwards, with Obama having a > slight lead, and Clinton in third place. But despite that, I remain free > of Clintonophobia, and the whole phenomenon really baffles me. She's not > exceptionally ruthless or sleazy, compared to other candidates for high > office. Yeah, that's the crux of my argument here: the more strident Clintonophobia becomes, the stupider it sounds to Joe and Josephine Average Voter. Similarly, the more McCain is lionized for straight-talk while sucker-punching Romney for shit he never said, the more incongruous that looks to the undecided middle. So there's hope. I'm unable to leave aside the fact that it's middle America's kids getting killed in Iraq; Obama's debate comments on the lowering of the bar for success in Iraq are dead on. I know that all focus is on the economy right now, but I'm pretty sure it will still all come down to pro-war vs. anti-war, so I say bring on McCain. Obama vs. Romney is an interesting idea, but scary as well... the conservative base Romney would energize would contain a higher redneck element than McCain's, and while that might help Obama in the polls, I really don't want to see that ugly ass-side of America crawl into the daylight again. It's just too pukey. And I don't want anyone to get hurt. - -REx ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #477 ********************************