From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #473 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, January 31 2008 Volume 16 : Number 473 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! [Rex ] Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! [2fs ] cilantro: more than just a taste issue [Jill Brand ] Re: NEW on DiME: Robyn Hitchcock 2008-01-29 Queen Elizabeth Hall IODOT&OP ["Clinton Golden" ] Re: Another quick Feg survey [Brian Hoare ] Re: cilantro: more than just a taste issue [Tom Clark ] Re: Another quick Feg survey [lep ] Re: cilantro: more than just a taste issue [Carrie Galbraith ] Re: Quick (like, really quick) feg survey [Michael Sweeney ] Re: puppet Spike [Capuchin ] Re: Angel - dreaded thread beginings [Capuchin ] Re: yet another iTunes WTF [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Reap [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: Another feg survey [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] RE: on not inhaling ["Elizabeth Brion" ] Re: cilantro: more than just a taste issue [Rex ] Re: tying the loos threads [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! [2fs ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:15:56 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! On Jan 31, 2008 10:19 AM, Stacked Crooked wrote: > URL:http://kristinhersh.cashmusic.org/downloads.php. It is. But I've been a little afraid to check it out... I'm a longtime Hersh diehard, but I was pretty disappointed with her last solo record (over-hyped, I fear) and sort of don't want to hear or judge these tracks until the end of the year, when the sort-of-album/project is complete. And I'm also a little overwhelmed by the idea that there will be an infinite number of remixed or completely re-structured versions by fans who use the stems. It is a very cool idea in a way, and hell, part of me is all over the concept of dueting with Kristin, or having my band record the backing track for her vocals, but... it's too much for me to absorb in a way. Perhaps it's just over the line into a music business model that I'm too trained in the old-fashioned way of things to fully "get". I mean, what if every artist made all of their masters available to all of their fans? You'd eventually have innumerable versions of every song by everyone, none more definitive than any other. Now, is that incredibly awesome, or incredibly horrible? I really can't decide! First question, as I tentatively approach it... how are the songs, and what do they sound like? - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:38:19 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! On Jan 31, 2008 2:15 PM, Rex wrote: > On Jan 31, 2008 10:19 AM, Stacked Crooked wrote: > > > URL:http://kristinhersh.cashmusic.org/downloads.php. > > > It is. > > But I've been a little afraid to check it out... > > I'm a longtime Hersh diehard, but I was pretty disappointed with her last > solo record (over-hyped, I fear) I get the rest of what you said - but that's really surprising to hear your thoughts on _Learn to Sing Like a Star_ - since I thought it was her best work in years! (Not that the intervening years have been bad or anything - just that I really like LTSLAS). > > -- > > ...Jeff Norman > > The Architectural Dance Society > http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:42:32 -0500 (EST) From: Jill Brand Subject: cilantro: more than just a taste issue "A friend of mine is revolted by cilantro. For whatever reason, it just sets him off. (He memorably wrote a blog entry about it, for which he made a very clever photo: it looked at first as if he'd put a large piece of cilantro on a plate with a white circular border...which at closer look turned out to be a toilet, which he'd shot straight-on from above)" The above was written by our 2f Jeff. Has anyone else here heard/read about the cilantro aversion thing being genetic or being akin to an allergy? I've heard this on more than one occasion, but have never found anything to back it up. I did a little sleuthing. While I didn't find any serious research, I did find a whole website dedicated to cilantro aversion. You can check this out at www.ihatecilantro.com/stories.php. Me? I love cilantro. Love, love, love it. Especially with tomato-based things. And yogurty things too. And guacamole. My husband hates beets, and many fegs seem to. I don't mind them, but I agree that they kind of taste like dirt. Or they taste like what I imagine dirt to taste like...which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I don't know who to vote for on Tuesday. I hope that Mitt gets beaten in his own home town. Jill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:45:06 -0800 From: "Clinton Golden" Subject: Re: NEW on DiME: Robyn Hitchcock 2008-01-29 Queen Elizabeth Hall IODOT&OP Could someone be a dear and upload this to Archive.org since it's an audience recording? I'm having bad luck with my Dime account....:( Thanks, clint ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:48:16 -0800 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: It's early, but I think we've got a contendah... ...for song-title of the year: "One-Brain Army", by president evil. of course, one-brain-*cell* army'd've been even better. carissa and myself drove through london on our way from toronto to detroit (soft boys' '01 tour). now, if you look at a map, you might wonder, "why in fuck would you drive through london on the way from toronto to detroit?" ...the explaining of which is a travelogue of capuchinian proportions, so will have to be left for another day. one of my supervisors at the aforementioned dairy queen was a beer float afficionado. "trageripitous"? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:08:28 -0500 From: gaseous clay Subject: Re: NEW on DiME: Robyn Hitchcock 2008-01-29 Queen Elizabeth Hall IODOT&OP one time at band camp, Clinton Golden (clint.golden@gmail.com) said: >Could someone be a dear and upload this to Archive.org since it's an >audience recording? I'm having bad luck with my Dime account....:( after the move this weekend and after the dsl dust settles, i'm going to work on getting lotsa shows uploaded to the archive. but if someone wants to beat me to it, that's fine with me! woj ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:09:03 -0500 (EST) From: kevin Subject: Re: cilantro: more than just a taste issue Cilantro, no; beets, yes; hope Mitt gets beaten, in the words of Dr. Thompson, like a red-headed stepchild. np Sonik Youth, The Diamond Sea (about 16 minutes in) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:11:17 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! Rex wrote: > what if every artist made all of their masters available to all of > their fans? You'd eventually have innumerable versions of every > song by everyone, none more definitive than any other. Now, is > that incredibly awesome, or incredibly horrible? Yes, and yes. "I'm not tempted to write a song about George W. Bush. I couldn't figure out what sort of song I would write. That's the problem: I don't want to satirize George Bush and his puppeteers, I want to vaporize them." -- Tom Lehrer "The eyes are the groin of the head." -- Dwight Schrute . ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:31:50 +0000 From: Brian Hoare Subject: Re: Another quick Feg survey > Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 03:02:57 -0500 > From: lep > Subject: Re: Another quick Feg survey > > Rex says: >> Here we go again... which of the following number do you prefer (pick one >> only)? >> 2, 4, 15, 26 >> Hurry! > > i don't really like any of them but i'll say 2. it's even (yuck), but > it's prime (yay). 2 and 4 are too mainstream. I'd go for 15 : Triangular, the magic constant of the smallest magic square, and the first product of two odd primes* 26 is only interesting in that it is the smallest non-palindromic number whose square is palindromic and that it is equal to the sum of the digits of its cube. btw. probably too late to mention cilla black death. Have fun. Brian *discounting squares of course _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail on your mobile, text MSN to 63463! http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/mail.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:31:12 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: cilantro: more than just a taste issue On Jan 31, 2008, at 12:42 PM, Jill Brand wrote: > "A friend of mine is revolted by cilantro. For whatever reason, it > just sets him off. (He memorably wrote a blog entry about it, for > which he made a very clever photo: it looked at first as if he'd put > a large piece of cilantro on a plate with a white circular > border...which at closer look turned out to be a toilet, which he'd > shot straight-on from above)" > > The above was written by our 2f Jeff. Has anyone else here heard/ > read about the cilantro aversion thing being genetic or being akin > to an allergy? I've heard this on more than one occasion, but have > never found anything to back it up. I did a little sleuthing. > While I didn't find any serious research, I did find a whole website > dedicated to cilantro aversion. You can check this out at www.ihatecilantro.com/stories.php > . > > Me? I love cilantro. Love, love, love it. Especially with tomato- > based things. And yogurty things too. And guacamole. I can't say I "hate" cilantro. I just avoid because to me it tastes like dish soap - which seems to be the common complaint against it. Ironically I love coriander! Thanks for the link, Jill. I'm glad I'm not alone. - -tc oh, and GO GIANTS! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:40:03 -0500 From: lep Subject: Re: Another quick Feg survey Brian says: > 2 and 4 are too mainstream. I'd go for 15 : Triangular, the magic constant of the smallest magic square, and the first product of two odd primes* > > 26 is only interesting in that it is the smallest non-palindromic number whose square is palindromic and that it is equal to the sum of the digits of its cube. i fall in love so easily. xo - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:42:58 -0800 From: Carrie Galbraith Subject: Re: cilantro: more than just a taste issue On Jan 31, 2008, at 12:42 PM, Jill Brand wrote: > > My husband hates beets, and many fegs seem to. I don't mind them, > but I agree that they kind of taste like dirt. Or they taste like > what I imagine dirt to taste like...which isn't necessarily a bad > thing. > I absolutely LOVE Beets. Love 'em. I especially love yellow beets. - - c ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:47:39 -0600 (CST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, Rex wrote: > Perhaps it's just over the line into a music business model that I'm too > trained in the old-fashioned way of things to fully "get". I mean, what > if every artist made all of their masters available to all of their > fans? You'd eventually have innumerable versions of every song by > everyone, none more definitive than any other. Now, is that incredibly > awesome, or incredibly horrible? I really can't decide! I think it brings music back to what it was before the recording industry. Kristin is putting out a song and we get to absorb it and reinterpret it for the world. Now, in the old days, I believe a much higher percentage of people played musical instruments and/or sang, so a song would get reinterpreted by them in their homes every few nights. And then maybe somebody would come through town and play the song another way. And that was it. There was the song and it was independent of even the writer's version. Last night, I was at Snug Harbor on Frenchman Street. The band playing was Irvin Mayfield and the New Orleans Jazz Orchestra. Wednesday night is their jam session and they phased in and out of several well-known songs as they played. At one point in the night, they saw a guy in the audience with a trumpet case. They called him up on stage... then they went, instrument, asking who would like to come up and play. When most of the band was replaced, Irvin played a few notes on his trumpet and everybody joined in. I feel like the drummer didn't know the song, but the other two trumpeters did and so did the pianist (the bass player was still from the NOJO). Eventually, Amanda Shaw got on the stage (if you don't know who she is, look her up). She'd been sitting in the back of the bar (illegally, but this is New Orleans and nobody checks ID unless it's a doorman looking for a bribe). She was amazing, of course, and so was this lanky drummer. At one point, someone shouted from the balcony, "Play it, white boy!" These people were remixing from stems. To them, I think the definitive version of a song is a matter of time and place... a temporary consensus until someone else comes along. And we have several modern examples of the cover of a song being the definitive: Ednaswap's "Torn", NIN's "Hurt", etc. I don't think this is a step in the right direction. It respects the spirit of music much more closely than the reverence to individual recordings does. J. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:20:18 +0000 From: Michael Sweeney Subject: Re: Quick (like, really quick) feg survey Jeff wrote: > Also, on the subject of "Go The Tigers": what's really annoying is the trendin sports names over the last 15, 20 years of using abstract nouns or evensingular nouns as the team name - the Miami Heat, the Chicago Fire, etc.Worse yet, there's a minor league baseball team (I think I have the sportright) in Madison called "The Madison Black Wolf" - yes, collectively, theteam is one enormous wolf. Annoying.< ...As my best friend (who moved from Chicago to Minnesota) also once pointed out, you start a team early enough, you get the good, simple, short names: Cubs, Bears, Tigers, Giants, Yankees, even Mets. Later on, you get stuck with the long and/or stupid ones: Supersonics, Timberwolves, Wild, Blue Jackets (WTF? Do they play against the Century 21 Yellow Jackets and the Masters Winners Green Jackets? A whole colored-blazer-based league, I suppose)... Michael "Not to mention the incongruousness of moved nicknames: Jazz in Utah?" Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:28:27 +0000 From: Michael Sweeney Subject: Re: Quick (like, really quick) feg survey Jeff wrote: >On 1/30/08, Stewart C. Russell wrote:>>>> something unwise in the freezer. > >What - like Dane Cook or something? > >Tell me it's true he froze to death. ...Stop teasing me! That would be too good to be true (but, given his apparent level of intellect, incredibly possible if he was near a particularly large, lock-from-the-outside freezer)... Michael "Jokes, Dane -- where are the frickin' jokes?!?" Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! http://biggestloser.msn.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:33:21 +0000 From: Michael Sweeney Subject: Re: Another quick Feg survey Rex wrote: >Here we go again... which of the following number do you prefer (pick oneonly)?2 4 15 26 Hurry!< 4 (no idea why -- quick gut call...although, in retrospect, as a classic Cubs fan, 26 appeals via Sweet Billy Williams...) MLS _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:46:12 -0600 (CST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: puppet Spike On Tue, 29 Jan 2008, lep wrote: > i love those episodes with illyria. she is soooooo cool. but i do wish > joss would have given our dear wesley a break once or twice in his life. Um, what on Earth do you get out of the shows if you think this would have been a "good thing" on any level? Wesley's suffering and decay and attempts at redemption are probably the very best thing about Angel. If he had had "a break once or twice in his life", none of it would make sense and the pathos would be utterly fucked. I'm trying to decide if I think I get more or less out of this stuff than most people. I absolutely do not think of these characters as real people. Their sufferings and trumphs are not something to share in any way, but events that allow me to reflect upon the morality of action and the human nature. I think the authors made mistakes here and there, but mostly in failing to present a consistent philosphical model. The suffering is really what both of those shows are all about. In Buffy, it's her struggle with reality itself -- she sees the world for what it is and feels the responsibilty to make it a better place, but deeply envies all of those who can go through life in a vapid, self-centered daze. Xander's life is everyman's struggle for identity while everyone around you seems to know exactly who they are and why they're special. Willow's story is kind of the opposite of Xander: Find your place and rejoice in it -- it is good enough. One pleasure is as good as another. The real folly is in disconent. In Angel, he is living out a life of remorse and atonement. I think this was played down because "broody Angel" was really no fun to watch as a character, but it is the underlying motivation and not just in a superficial plot-driving way. Wesley lives in the darkest world of all -- beset on all sides by the failings of others and an utter inabliity to find a place or person where his unique self is appreciated or understood. His apathy for the world does not change his resolve to fight for good. It is not about saving the world because people are so great; it's about saving the world because it's the right thing to do. They're not people and I'm not sad when they suffer. I may even submit that it is the remove of fiction -- the understanding that no real suffering is taking place -- that allows me to give the events the proper kind of analysis and gain from them the lessons inherent. In real life, suffering is accompanied by my own compassion and disappointment and fear. Those things also inform my actions and are also valuable and, indeed, vital to being a person and doing the right thing. But I think that without the remove of fiction, it would be much harder for me to come to an understanding of the underlying principles that govern morality and motivation. In essence, I think the shows are a great big philosophical thought-experiment. Most thought-experiments are woefully naive in their construction and the intellectual reactions are so far removed from the emotional reactions that they come out pretty much worthless. The context of fiction allows me to see the characteres (none of them "me", though I must necessarily identify with aspects of each) as complex beings with both kinds of reaction dictating their choices. But the situations are just as contrived and the participants no more real. The circumstances and characters have been CHOSEN from all possible places and traits to tell particular stories emphasizing particular aspects of humanity. I get way more out of that than watching people who have no principles deal with the random events of a purposeless universe. And that's why I don't like Battlestar Galactica. The end. J. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:50:00 -0600 (CST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Angel - dreaded thread beginings On Wed, 30 Jan 2008, Carrie Galbraith wrote: > Just began season 3. > I have to say - I like Angel more than Buffy. > it's darker, and way funnier. > Just my 2 cents. My ex-housemate Chris would agree with you completely. And if you want to go for pure affection, I would, too. But I think Buffy has more to say, generally, though Angel has a much better and more universal message. I think maybe it's the universality that makes it so hard to be consistent and not be totally one-note (which is why I think Buffy has more to say -- a less concise theme means more avenues to explore whereas Angel just throws whole tracts of exploration by the wayside as being incompatible with the ideal). J. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 12:01:51 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: yet another iTunes WTF >It seems to be making the classic error of treating numbers as if they're >just different characters, rather than recognizing (as several other >ordering schema in various apps I have can do) that numbers have their own >order, so that "20" should not follow "2" but "19,"... 20 should follow 19 but be before 2. Twe- comes before Two :) 8, 18, 11, 15, 5, 4, 14, 9, 19, 1, 7, 17, 6, 16, 10, 13, 3, 12, 20, 2 James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:03:31 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Reap The Montel Williams Show http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117979859.html?categoryId=2467&cs=1 He gave Sylvia Browne somewhere to be on TV a lot, so fuck the fucking fuck with a fucking fucking fuck fuck fuck. On the other hand, there's always this: http://www.schlock.net/sounds/montel.wav "I'm not tempted to write a song about George W. Bush. I couldn't figure out what sort of song I would write. That's the problem: I don't want to satirize George Bush and his puppeteers, I want to vaporize them." -- Tom Lehrer "The eyes are the groin of the head." -- Dwight Schrute . ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 12:05:59 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: Another feg survey >Here we go again... which of the following number do you prefer (pick one >only)? >2 > >4 > >15 > >26 > What is going on here? Can't say I like any of them that much, though 26 resonates, since it's a mul;tiple of my dad's repeated number (do any of you have a number that seems to crop up everywhere in your life? John Lennon had 9, according to legend - I have 33) My own favourites are 33 and 17, which has been a favourite since long before Peter Cook told us to just remember it. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:45:50 -0800 (PST) From: "Elizabeth Brion" Subject: RE: on not inhaling >>> A friend of mine is revolted by cilantro. For whatever reason, it > just >>> sets him off. Your friend is so very, very not alone: http://www.ihatecilantro.com/ My first known encounter with the stuff was when I sent three separate pizzas back for repairs at California Pizza Kitchen; I was convinced they were not rinsing the dish soap off their plates. Oops. On the crazy ice cream flavors thread, there's a place called Scoops here in LA that gets, uh, creative: http://www.yelp.com/biz/scoops-los-angeles We go there a lot because they have both vegan and standard-cow-issue ice cream, but since I'm working from the smaller vegan selection I haven't braved anything scarier than lemon coconut. (This is a bit of a test, as I just had a post of mine appear on a smoe-hosted list in a timely fashion for the first time in ages; if the whole server has decided it likes me again, I might actually participate now and again. If, however, this shows up on Sunday and 12 people have linked to I Hate Cilantro - not my fault, I swear!) - -- Elizabeth http://www.fringehead.com http://myspace.com/elizabethbrion ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:15:50 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: cilantro: more than just a taste issue On Jan 31, 2008 12:42 PM, Jill Brand wrote: > > The above was written by our 2f Jeff. Has anyone else here heard/read > about the cilantro aversion thing being genetic or being akin to an > allergy? I've heard this on more than one occasion, but have never found > anything to back it up. I did a little sleuthing. While I didn't find > any serious research, I did find a whole website dedicated to cilantro > aversion. You can check this out at www.ihatecilantro.com/stories.php. I had a girlfriend once who hated it on the grounds that it tasted, to her, like soap. Never really tallied with me, but as Tom says, that's the common knock against it/ > > I don't know who to vote for on Tuesday. I hope that Mitt gets beaten in > his own home town. > I dunno, I gotta hope to keep Romney in there a little bit longer, if only to underline how manically scary McCain is, and destabilize the GOP a little bit longer. Meanwhile, will somebody broker Clinton and Obama onto the same ticket? Soon? Please? We all know it's right. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:19:11 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: yet another iTunes WTF On 1/31/08, grutness@slingshot.co.nz wrote: > > >It seems to be making the classic error of treating numbers as if they're > >just different characters, rather than recognizing (as several other > >ordering schema in various apps I have can do) that numbers have their > own > >order, so that "20" should not follow "2" but "19,"... > > 20 should follow 19 but be before 2. Twe- comes before Two :) > > 8, 18, 11, 15, 5, 4, 14, 9, 19, 1, 7, 17, 6, 16, 10, 13, 3, 12, 20, 2 Now yr talkin crazy talk... I want iTunes to be able to sort by the total cumulative length of all characters forming the artist's name. So, an artist named "iii" would be much shorter than one named "mmm." Of course we'd need to specify a particular font for this to work. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 12:24:57 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: tying the loos threads > For me, it's beets. Can't stand the sight of them. > I ate them once, they tasted like dust to me. Lychees. if I wanted to eat perfumed soap, I'd eat perfumed soap. >Wait... what's the word for things that are not good, but happened in a >strangely coincidental way? I had a made-up word for it the other day, >but can't think of it now. Synchronicity >Also, on the subject of "Go The Tigers": what's really annoying is the trend >in sports names over the last 15, 20 years of using abstract nouns or even >singular nouns as the team name - the Miami Heat, the Chicago Fire, etc. >Worse yet, there's a minor league baseball team (I think I have the sport >right) in Madison called "The Madison Black Wolf" - yes, collectively, the >team is one enormous wolf. Annoying. Hasn't really started happening in NZ yet, though the country's best-known club soccer team is the Wellington Phoenix. Not even sure I know how that should be pluralised. BTW - here's a link on the beer ice cream: James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:35:06 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Now THIS is fucking cool! On 1/31/08, Capuchin wrote: > > On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, Rex wrote: > > Perhaps it's just over the line into a music business model that I'm too > > trained in the old-fashioned way of things to fully "get". I mean, what > > if every artist made all of their masters available to all of their > > fans? You'd eventually have innumerable versions of every song by > > everyone, none more definitive than any other. Now, is that incredibly > > awesome, or incredibly horrible? I really can't decide! > > I think it brings music back to what it was before the recording industry. It does, in some ways...and it highlights the way "rock" music has become, more than almost any other genre, unusual in that it's mostly a *recorded* genre, and particular recordings *are* the song. (Maybe hip-hop fits in this description as well.) "Songs" used to be, as Jeme points out, more or less sketchy: they were these words, pretty much, sung to these notes, more or less, over these chords, approximately, in these rhythms, just about. Whereas in rock, particularly for artists who either don't tour much or at all or who don't alter the recordings much in concert, "A Day in the Life" is *exactly* the sounds recorded for the Sgt. Pepper album. Coincidentally, I just recently skimmed a review by Franklin Bruno (of Nothing Painted Blue quasi-fame; also a visiting professor of philosophy at Bard College) of a philosophical work that, among other things, asks "the categorical question (what sort of entity is a work of music?) and the individuation question (how are works identified and distinguished?)." This is by no means a simple question, in fact. (My blatherings are here, but they're more useful for the link they provide to Bruno's review.) Anyway, there's no reason either possibility has to prevail: there can be the "definitive" Kristin Hersh recording of her song, and their can be a zillion interpretations (including her own various takes and performances, and all the remixes spawned by her making the basic tracks available). The existence of the latter does not preclude declaring a particular version to be the former. Obviously, some artists are going to go all aleatoric and release *only* the raw tracks, saying the whole point is to let people go ape with the remixing, and that there *is* no "definitive version"...but frankly, I think most artists are more invested in their work as work than that - and most listeners *want* to have the artist's sense of form, etc., imposed upon them. (That's why "interactive fiction" typically leaves people cold: when we read a novel, we *want* the author's perspective and skill - otherwise, we'd just write our own. Of course, we can do both...) > > > These people were remixing from stems. To them, I think the definitive > version of a song is a matter of time and place... a temporary consensus > until someone else comes along. But now we're talking a different kind of "definitive" here, I think - something like "critically definitive." The clearest example, maybe, is what Hendrix did with Dylan's "All Along the Watchtower": he took over so strongly that even Dylan more or less played it that way from then on. (It's okay - for my money, Clapton's version of "Little Wing" has it all over Hendrix's - or at least, it transforms it so utterly that it's nearly a different song. I still like Hendrix's original...but I think of them nearly as two different songs that happen to share words and chords.) Coincidentally, we were just talking about another, similar example - although not in terms of "definitive," just in terms of what happens with a thoroughgoing rewrite: the Soft Boys' cover of "Heartbreak Hotel" clearly (and acknowledgedly - if that's a word) is a cover not of the "original" (Elvis's, although he didn't write it) but of John Cale's rearrangement. That rearrangement is different enough that it's nearly a different song entirely...and now we're back to the question the book Bruno reviewed addresses. It sometimes gets rather curious...for example, the Residents' version of "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" is not only musically quite distant from the original, even the lyrics are different (except for the chorus). if they'd called the song something else, would we think of it less as a cover and more as an homage (or demolition)? - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #473 ********************************