From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #338 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, September 17 2007 Volume 16 : Number 338 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! [Michael Sweeney ] oh yeah, tours and music stuff... ["michael wells" ] Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! [lep ] ACL Impressions [Steve Talkowski ] Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! [lep ] Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! [Capuchin ] Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! [lep ] Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! [2fs ] The Move / Wizzard / Roy Wood [Steve Schiavo ] Kids' Cartoons (some RH content, well RJ, actually...) [craigie* ] Re: Quick trip to London [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! ["Stewart C. Russell" ] RE: assignment for listless listers ["Bachman, Michael" ] RE: fegmaniax-digest V16 #336 [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! [kevin ] Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! [kevin ] Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! [2fs ] Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! [lep ] Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! [kevin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 00:03:52 +0000 From: Michael Sweeney Subject: Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! Lauren wrote: >this worked so well that I think FegList needs a regular thread: >"Christopher Gross - please explain!" Why did "Sailing" suck plenty o' donkey dick? Why did that god-awful theme from "Arthur" take 4 songwriters to "compose"? ...Oh, wait -- those are questions for the "Christopher Cross - please explain!" thread. My mistake... Michael Sweeney ...and, IMO, that "caught between the moon and New York City" line may well be up there with Axl's "Her hair reminds me of a warm safe place / Where as a child I'd hide" for worst line / couplet EVAR... _________________________________________________________________ Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Cafi. http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 20:09:53 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! On 9/16/07, Christopher Gross wrote: > > > character interesting. Even after Spike gets his soul back, he's not > entirely heroic. > I agree almost entirely with the rest of what you said...but to me, "entirely heroic" is not at all the same as "entirely a good man." I think Spike *was* heroic: not because he was perfect, not because he did the right thing always, not after the chip, not after ensouling - but because he often tried to do the right thing even at great cost to himself. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 20:06:52 -0700 From: "michael wells" Subject: oh yeah, tours and music stuff... As to Josh Ritter, he's definitely the best thing to come out of Idaho since potatoes! HISTORICAL CONQUESTS. is my favorite release of this year so far. This kid has it all together - when is the last time someone had a way with wryly twisted lyrics like this? I put "I Know Where Robyn Hitchcock Lives" on a couple of swap discs last year, but never thought as much of Damien's other stuff. PHANTOMS.didn't do enough to make my 2005 best-of list, but I should probably listen to it again. That probably doesn't help much, I know. It looks like Robyn's dates have been updated http://www.robynhitchcock.com/auditori.htm and he's doing a pretty interesting and thorough routing of the Midwest without coming to Chicago. This is rather tough to do, so kudos to him. That Madison, WI show on Saturday night would be fun, I love the town but would have to check if there's a home football game at Camp Randall that day. And how did I not know that Nick Lowe was on tour? Bummer he'll be here the night before we leave on vacation, so I'd love to hear tour reports if anyone else goes. In other live show news, I see the 'giant head shimmy' herself Kristin Hersh is playing a one-off something called the "estrojam" festival later this month in Chicago. I think that ranks right up there on the list of shows I would attend only immobilized under frightening physical restraints, but there are fans here so now they know as well. [before the flaming begins, note my knock is against Hersh and not musico-feminism. I went to Kaki King's Giant Yellow Vagina tour or whatever the hell that was, so there.] Michael n.p. "The Door Into Summer" - The Monkees ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:15:17 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: oh yeah, tours and music stuff... On 9/16/07, michael wells wrote: > In other live show news, I see the 'giant head shimmy' herself Kristin Hersh > is playing a one-off something called the "estrojam" festival later this > month in Chicago. I think that ranks right up there on the list of shows I > would attend only immobilized under frightening physical restraints, but > there are fans here so now they know as well. Well, as a huge booster of KH herself, I can't imagine I'd find anything else of interest in a show with that name... never did cotton to a singe Lillith Fair lineup, probably for the same reason that I would've avoided a festival called, like, "MachoPalooza" or "Monsters of Rock" or something equally preposterous. I think the entire Hersh/Donnelly/Deal/Boston Female-Oriented Indie Scene escaped pretty much untainted by Lillithism, to its longterm credit, given the cash-in so many of those artists could've done at that time (nb. Liz Phair is dead to me). - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 22:19:29 -0400 From: lep Subject: Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! hi list, first, to quote jill once again: "thanks for the explanation." (btw, i believe it was jason who played the resident dead milkman geek in the last round of "Christopher Gross - please explain!", not jeff.) buffy spoilers to follow, and sweeney, just go now while you have the chance. v v v v i'm still brewing over chris' explanation, but wanted to comment: jeff 2fs says: > I agree almost entirely with the rest of what you said...but to me, > "entirely heroic" is not at all the same as "entirely a good man." I think > Spike *was* heroic: not because he was perfect, not because he did the right > thing always, not after the chip, not after ensouling - but because he often > tried to do the right thing even at great cost to himself. this is an interesting point. spike makes a choice much more than e.g. buffy or angel (mind that i haven't seen past angel season 1 yet.) angel and buffy both have a fate that happens to them whereas spike makes a deliberate choice. angel, for instance, has no option other than to be evil or to not be evil, depending on the status of the Curse Bit. if the Curse Bit is off, he does have a choice to actually do more than "not be evil", but it's not on the same level as spike's choice. and now that i'm thinking about it, it's making the other "regular folk" characters more heroic. the true hero of BTVS: giles, indeed. so what i want to know is: WWGD? xo p.s. you are welcome to silently applaud my getting through this post *almost* without once mentioning spike's heroic ass. - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 21:24:35 -0500 From: Steve Talkowski Subject: ACL Impressions The highlight of the past three days was Bjork by a landslide, with both The Arcade Fire and Wilco tied for a close second place. We started to listen to the closing act Dylan, but his voice is just shot to hell and we're all way too wiped out to endure the last hour of humidity. Kudos for The Decemberists for sticking it out at the horrible audio setup at the Dell stage. Glad to see Crowded House and LCD Soundsystem, but a bit dissapointed with The Arctic Monkeys set. - -Steve, waiting with his gal at the Mickie Dee's parking lot off Lamar St for a ride back to our friends place on Annie St. PS. Did I mention it was unbearably hot the past three days? Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 23:22:43 -0400 From: lep Subject: Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! i says: blah spike blah blah buffy angel blah blah spike blah i spoke (i.e. wrote) too soon and would like to retract the comments re: buffy and just have them be re: angel. as ever, lauren - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 23:24:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! This is all Buffy shit. Spoilers be damned, just go away if you're not interested. On Sun, 16 Sep 2007, lep wrote: > this is an interesting point. spike makes a choice much more than e.g. > buffy or angel (mind that i haven't seen past angel season 1 yet.) Buffy doesn't have a choice to be the Slayer or not, but she certainly has a choice (moreso than any other Slayer before her, it seems) whether or not to do something about it. Ditto Angel. He has a soul. Big whoop. You got a soul. I don't see you out there putting every personal concern aside for the sake of a better tomorrow. Of course, I don't see you at all. Angel is a Champion. That hasn't really been introduced to you yet, though. But it's quite explicitly defined much later in the series and being a Champion is a choice that we can all take or leave. > angel and buffy both have a fate that happens to them whereas spike > makes a deliberate choice. angel, for instance, has no option other > than to be evil or to not be evil, depending on the status of the Curse > Bit. if the Curse Bit is off, he does have a choice to actually do more > than "not be evil", but it's not on the same level as spike's choice. The undefined Curse Bit just ENSURES Angel will be evil. He can totally be evil with it set to 1. After you finish season 5 of Angel, we can talk about why this comparison of how people got into their situations doesn't mean shit. > the true hero of BTVS: giles, indeed. Fuck that. Look what he did to Ben! If it weren't for that one little thing with Sweet and his belief that Buffy wouldn't have the guts to do in Angel if she thought he might be re-cursed, Xander is pretty much unblemished, morally. So he and Dawn are the "good guys". J. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 23:27:39 -0400 From: lep Subject: Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! 2fs says: > On 9/16/07, lep wrote: > > > > > > p.s. you are welcome to silently applaud my getting through this post > > *almost* without once mentioning spike's heroic ass. > > Oh, so you've moved on from his chest then... actually, not at all, "ass" just had a nicer ring in that sentence. but honestly, it's not like i'm going to be too particular on the issue of upper vs. lower spike regions. xo p.s. i mean, i'd like the two regions to be attached to one another, but other than that... (p.p.s. i think i can blame that p.s. on watching too much david lynch as of late.) - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 22:21:53 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! On 9/16/07, lep wrote: > > > > p.s. you are welcome to silently applaud my getting through this post > *almost* without once mentioning spike's heroic ass. Oh, so you've moved on from his chest then... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 00:29:41 -0500 From: Steve Schiavo Subject: The Move / Wizzard / Roy Wood The Move / Wizzard / Roy Wood - there's quite a bit. - - Steve __________ I can't resist an anime that includes a small, cute, violence prone girl with a scythe. - John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:46:34 +0100 From: craigie* Subject: Kids' Cartoons (some RH content, well RJ, actually...) while we're talking about kids' TV shows, anyone else notice that Roger Jackson does the music for The Secret Show? Or is that just a British cartoon? c* On 15/09/2007, Rex wrote: > > On 9/14/07, Michael Sweeney wrote: > > > My fave example of that was in "The Powerpuff Girls Movie." There was > a > > scene of the aftermath of a flood, and among the detritus depicted > swirling > > around underwater was a can of "Dapper Dan" (a la "O Brother Where Art > > Thou?"). I figured that little "Easter Egg"-ish joke must've been a) > even > > seen, or b) understood by, what? less than 1% of the PPG > audience? Still, > > cracked me up...(I may have told that story before, but...worth > repeating). > > Embedded within the PPG shows and film are at least 3 extended lifts > from "The Big Lebowski": the opening in the supermarket, "that rug > really tied the room together", and the mayor by the fireside > delivering the "Do my tears shock you?" speech. Lots of Coen pastiche > there... I hadn't caught the Dapper Dan, though! > > > ...Don't think it was "Underdog;" I saw that (shudder) but certainly > coulda > > missed the BB reference, what with the whole > my-brain-starting-to-seize-up > > thing and all... > > I agree... I think it might've been "Phil of the Future", "Kim > Possible", or maybe the new tween sensation "iCarly". Or something > else. By the way, there's some queasy disconnection between Apple and > iCarly: I thought the show would almost have to license the "i" > prefix from Apple, but bizarrely the "webmaster" character on the show > uses a Mac laptop with the Apple log replaced by a glowing *pear* with > a bite taken out of it. Weird. > > -Rex > - -- first things first, but not necessarily in that order... - -- first things first, but not necessarily in that order... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:25:14 +0100 From: craigie* Subject: Re: assignment for listless listers On 15/09/2007, Jeff Dwarf wrote: > > 2fs wrote: > > > more recently, uh, someone else famous whose name totally escapes > > me and which I'm too lazy to look up. > > That Phil guy from Herman's Hermits, who was married to the model > without any legs. Not the one they promoted at Jack in the Box, the > one before that. And Scott Walker. at least, he seemed to be working with him in the film 30 Century Man (now out on DVD - go on, treat yourself! I did) c* - -- first things first, but not necessarily in that order... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:30:24 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: Quick trip to London Hi, - --On 10. September 2007 23:09:08 -0700 Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > Hampstead Heath is lovely. > There's the British Museum, of course, and the National Portrait > Gallery--but I really recommend the museum complex at Greenwich. - --On 11. September 2007 10:44:35 +0100 Rob wrote: > Definitely the British Museum as they have a display of Terracotta Army > figures from the 12th September. The largest display outside China. But > advance booking is sold out for 14th & 15th so you'd have to try for a > couple of the 500 tickets released each day on a first come first served > basis. Even if you can't get a ticket for that, it's worth a visit if just > to see the atrium. Thanks for the suggestions, but as it turned out the Greenwich Observatory was the only one I managed to visit. There was just too little time ... But the trip was great. The weather was very good. My personal highlight was watching "Atonement" at the Leicester Square Odeon. It's supposed to be the largest screen in Europe (although I failed to find verification of that) and it was a digital projection, which was a first for me. I love the novel and thought the adaptation was excellent. The hotel was the "Wembley Plaza", right next to Wembley Stadium. I enjoyed seeing the stadium where Germany regularly beats England, but it wasn't very practical for nightlife purposes. Instead of doing any clubbing on Friday night we rode the London Eye, walked along the Thames and headed back to the hotel around 11 pm. Anyway, a trip like that is so cheap that I plan on doing it again. If anyone's interested, here are some pictures: - -- b. Sebastian Hagedorn b Hagedorn@spinfo.uni-koeln.de b' http://www.uni-koeln.de/~a0620/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:43:04 +0100 From: craigie* Subject: Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! On 17/09/2007, lep wrote: > > > the true hero of BTVS: giles, indeed. > > so what i want to know is: WWGD? What would Giles Do? Make a cup of tea, of course. (and, in other news, the BBC has rubberstamped the much rumoured Buffy 'prequel' "Ripper" just two weeks ago... Hurray!! Early Giles! Ethan Rayne! Wesley Wyndham-Price! Gwendolyn Post! etc etc... Maybe even some Sp*ke...?) c* - -- first things first, but not necessarily in that order... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 07:25:13 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! craigie* wrote: > > What would Giles Do? > > Make a cup of tea, of course. Actually, if you're from the UK, you'd know it'd have to be a cup of coffee - Anthony Head was the face of Nescafe Gold Blend (aka Taster's Choice - ak!) in the 1980s: . Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:03:21 +0100 From: craigie* Subject: Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! Ah, but he wasn't Giles in those adverts... Just a smarmy Yuppie type with a taste for caffeine-related innuendo... and a blind spot for dropped hints... c* (who prefers ordinary Nescafe to Gold Bland (sic) ) On 17/09/2007, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > craigie* wrote: > > > > What would Giles Do? > > > > Make a cup of tea, of course. > > Actually, if you're from the UK, you'd know it'd have to be a cup of > coffee - Anthony Head was the face of Nescafe Gold Blend (aka Taster's > Choice - ak!) in the 1980s: . > > > Stewart > - -- first things first, but not necessarily in that order... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 08:36:48 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: assignment for listless listers - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org [mailto:owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org] On Behalf Of lep Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 1:22 AM To: a sweet little cupcake...baked by the devil! Subject: Re: assignment for listless listers Aaron L. says: > The professor is apparently some kind of indie-rock snob who has > limited the class to choosing songs by a select group of hand-picked > artists that he likes. > She asked me to help her (a) acquire some music by some of these bands > and (b) suggest some songs that she might focus on. Here is the > professor-approved list: > > Beck > Joanna Newsom > TV on the Radio > The Decemberists > Rilo Kiley > Bright Eyes > The Arcade Fire > I know there are some fegs who like these artists, and I'm hoping that > some of you might be able to suggest some albums or songs that would > be likely to be more accessible -- or, just some personal favorites > than I can recommend to her. > > Anyone have any ideas? I haven't bought any Rilo Kiley albums, but I do like the Jenny Lewis and The Watson Twins album that was released last year. Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:14:18 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: fegmaniax-digest V16 #336 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org [mailto:owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Rex Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 8:38 PM To: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Cc: fegmaniax@smoe.org Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #336 On 9/15/07, grutness@slingshot.co.nz wrote: > >>I did score a marked-down DVD of Buckaroo Banzai though.)> >> > Waste > >>no time... the director's cut has Jamie Lee Curtis in it. > > >Oh, and as for truly awful movies that are relieved by the appearance > >of Jamie-Lee Curtis, may I offer "True lies"? Rex: >Almost relieved... that there is one of the squickiest, most discomforting films ever passed off as mass entertainment. It pissed of a lot of Arab Americans as well as the movie generated a lot of controversy with it's Arab stereotypes. Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 08:34:09 -0500 From: "Brian Huddell" Subject: RE: Christopher Gross - please explain! > Actually, if you're from the UK, you'd know it'd have to be a cup of > coffee - Anthony Head was the face of Nescafe Gold Blend (aka Taster's > Choice - ak!) in the 1980s Not only were those ads shown in the US, they were a phenomenon, on the scale of "Where's the beef" and "I've fallen and I can't get up". Sad, really, that I know that. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:21:35 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: assignment for listless listers On 9/15/07, Jeff Dwarf wrote: > > 2fs wrote: > > On other points: Nigel Godrich has indeed worked w/Radiohead, and > > Hell, he's the so-called 6th Radiohead. > > > more recently, uh, someone else famous whose name totally escapes > > me and which I'm too lazy to look up. > > That Phil guy from Herman's Hermits, who was married to the model > without any legs. Not the one they promoted at Jack in the Box, the > one before that. You don't mean Phil McCarthy, do you? - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 08:22:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: RE: fegmaniax-digest V16 #336 "Bachman, Michael" wrote: > ["True lies"] pissed of a lot of Arab Americans as well as the > movie generated a lot of controversy with it's Arab stereotypes. Thank god we've moved past that now, with the hot guy on _Lost_ and, um, er, eh.... "Children have always enjoyed my movies. They are just not allowed to watch many of them." -- John Waters . ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:44:59 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! >> (1) Is man's true nature good or evil? or am I asking the wrong >> question? Christopher Gross - please explain! > >Man's true nature is that he is capable of both good and evil. Whether >this is the wrong question depends on the purpose of the question, which >was not given here. Of course it's also been argued that good and evil are social constructs with no intrinsic meaning. >And chiseled >cheekbones, a macho strut and a cool long black coat do not add up to a >perfect man. Not a bad place to start, though. If I had my druthers I'd prefer to look like Spike as opposed to the big ol' Scandahoovian squarehead model I was issued. np Elvis 'n' the Attractions: Get Happy!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:47:50 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! >...and, IMO, that "caught between the moon and New York City" line may well be >up there with Axl's "Her hair reminds me of a warm safe place / Where as a >child I'd hide" for worst line / couplet EVAR... "Newspaper taxis appear on the shore/Waiting to take me away" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:53:01 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: kevin Subject: RE: assignment for listless listers >> Beck >> Joanna Newsom >> TV on the Radio >> The Decemberists >> Rilo Kiley >> Bright Eyes >> The Arcade Fire >> Anyone have any ideas? > I pretty much like Bright Eyes' I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning. Also Beck's Stereopathic Soul Manure. That's about all I can contribute. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:57:21 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! >What would Giles Do? > >Make a cup of tea, of course. > >(and, in other news, the BBC has rubberstamped the much rumoured Buffy >'prequel' "Ripper" just two weeks ago... Hurray!! Early Giles! Ethan Rayne! >Wesley Wyndham-Price! Gwendolyn Post! etc etc... Maybe even some Sp*ke...?) Umm, do any of y'all across the water have anything to say about what I just stumbled across here? http://www.rockymusic.org/album/head.php ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:26:53 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! On 9/17/07, kevin wrote: > > >> (1) Is man's true nature good or evil? or am I asking the wrong > >> question? Christopher Gross - please explain! > > > >Man's true nature is that he is capable of both good and evil. Whether > >this is the wrong question depends on the purpose of the question, which > >was not given here. > > Of course it's also been argued that good and evil are social constructs > with no intrinsic meaning. The obvious response to that is that we *live* in a social construct, and "intrinsic meaning" is meaningless outside that social construct: so of course, "good" and "evil" have meaning, regardless of its intrinsic nature or social nature. (That is, if someone's using the "social construct" argument to claim something isn't "really" good or evil, it's essentially nonsensical.) - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:28:00 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! On 9/17/07, kevin wrote: > > >...and, IMO, that "caught between the moon and New York City" line may > well be >up there with Axl's "Her hair reminds me of a warm safe place / > Where as a >child I'd hide" for worst line / couplet EVAR... > > > "Newspaper taxis appear on the shore/Waiting to take me away" Yeah, but Lennon was trying to be imagistic and surreal...the other two lines seem to want to be realistic but metaphoric...and fail miserably. The GnR line is much worse, in being laughably incongruous... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:45:32 -0400 From: lep Subject: Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! Capuchin says: > This is all Buffy shit. Spoilers be damned, just go away if you're not > interested. so. you stand warned. continue or not: v v v > If it weren't for that one little thing with Sweet and his belief that > Buffy wouldn't have the guts to do in Angel if she thought he might be > re-cursed, Xander is pretty much unblemished, morally. xander not showing at anya's wedding: -5. xo - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:10:03 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! >> Of course it's also been argued that good and evil are social constructs >> with no intrinsic meaning. > > >The obvious response to that is that we *live* in a social construct, and >"intrinsic meaning" is meaningless outside that social construct: so of >course, "good" and "evil" have meaning, regardless of its intrinsic nature >or social nature. > >(That is, if someone's using the "social construct" argument to claim >something isn't "really" good or evil, it's essentially nonsensical.) > Whillikers, such a contentious bunch. The argument I was pointing to in a devil's-advocate sort of way (and whose advocate would you rather be, really?) is that "good" and "evil" are cultural values that may vary wildly depending on who you ask, i.e. one citizen's Ornette Coleman is another's Kenny G; conduct that gets you put in prison in one social context can earn you a Presidential Medal Of Freedom in another. I'm just sayin'. PS. Who's hoping OJ will really go to jail this time? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:17:42 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Christopher Gross - please explain! On 9/17/07, kevin wrote: > > > > Whillikers, such a contentious bunch. The argument I was pointing to in a > devil's-advocate sort of way (and whose advocate would you rather be, > really?) I'm just surprised no one's ever made a pinball machine with "Devil's Advocate" on it a la The Simpsons... is that "good" and "evil" are cultural values that may vary wildly depending > on who you ask, i.e. one citizen's Ornette Coleman is another's Kenny G; > conduct that gets you put in prison in one social context can earn you a > Presidential Medal Of Freedom in another. I'm just sayin'. Well yeah. Except for the Kenny G. part. That's an absolute: he's crap. PS. Who's hoping OJ will really go to jail this time? I'm sure he'll be greeted, uh, kindly. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #338 ********************************