From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #331 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, September 12 2007 Volume 16 : Number 331 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: tl;dr (0% Roback content) [kevin ] Re: Of "Eb" and iPods [Tom Clark ] RE: My name is "Eb": Somebody get me a cheeseburger ["michael wells" ] Re: Of "Eb" and Oceanography ["Michael Sweeney" ] RE: tl;dr (0% Roback content) ["Marc Alberts" ] Re: Of "Eb" and Oceanography [Tom Clark ] Re: Of "Eb" and iPods [Tom Clark ] Re: My name is "Eb": Somebody get me a cheeseburger [2fs ] tl;dr episode iv: a new hope (sandoval) [Rex ] American Versions of the Dream [Jill Brand ] Re: Nina Nastasia/Jim White [2fs ] Re: tl;dr episode iv: a new hope (sandoval) [2fs ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:29:56 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: tl;dr (0% Roback content) >At my school, *everyone* listened to The Cure, or so it seemed. I wasn't >even a fan or anything (I've never been to a show), but their music was >something that was always around you. Love that Fat Bob and his trance-o-tronic endless guitar intros. Even when his lyrics come across as bitter and dyspeptic as Philip Larkin he still washes everything in that sea of glorious noise. Almost as much fun as drugs, and cheaper. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:27:17 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Of "Eb" and iPods On Sep 12, 2007, at 12:05 PM, Christopher Gross wrote: > On Wed, 12 Sep 2007, Tom Clark wrote: >> Video out the headphone jack is no longer supported as of the latest >> iPod release. > > But the new iPods can still do it via the dock, I take it (and hope)? Of course. It's all about the 30-pin connector now. On Sep 12, 2007, at 11:18 AM, Capuchin wrote: > That is dumb. > Is it because carrying a cable made the thing way too useful as a > portable media station? Now you've got to carry a dock as well. You just need to carry a different cable, like this one: - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:48:01 -0700 From: "michael wells" Subject: RE: My name is "Eb": Somebody get me a cheeseburger Tom: > Shank Hall, Milwaukee 11/2 > Southgate House, Newport, KY 11/8 > Music Mill, Indianapolis, IN 11/10 > Triple Door, Seattle, 11/28-29 Interesting stops, no? Shank is a surprisingly enjoyable place to catch a show; the sound is great - - for a rectangular room - and it's near a trendy/university area. ISTR getting a decent AUD recording there the most recent time Robyn played. Plus Jeffrey might actually go this time around. I see Schuba's (Chicago) has the Saturday night following Milwaukee un-announced...hmmm... It's about damn time, Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:56:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Of "Eb" and iPods On Wed, 12 Sep 2007, Tom Clark wrote: > On Sep 12, 2007, at 12:05 PM, Christopher Gross wrote: >> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007, Tom Clark wrote: >>> Video out the headphone jack is no longer supported as of the latest >>> iPod release. >> But the new iPods can still do it via the dock, I take it (and hope)? > > Of course. It's all about the 30-pin connector now. But, err, why? I mean, don't lots of little things use a three-ring minijack? It seems like it could easily become a standardized patch cable. > On Sep 12, 2007, at 11:18 AM, Capuchin wrote: > You just need to carry a different cable, like this one: > I reluctantly accept. J. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:20:26 +0000 From: "Michael Sweeney" Subject: Re: Of "Eb" and Oceanography Tom Clark sez: >On Sep 11, 2007, at 6:45 PM, Stacked Crooked wrote: > >>>"You've Got a Sweet Mouth on you Baby" & "Elizabeth Jade"> >> >>holy fuckmachine! i'd had no idea! fegs are the best! > >Halfway decent film too. But then again I've always had a thing for Lili >Taylor. Robyn's "Judas Sings" plays over the end credits. Never saw "Slipping...," but I DO know that "Judas Sings" plays over the end credits of "Judas Kiss" (mmm - Carla Gugino....) Michael "PS - Tom Clark (re: Fantasy Football): Fuck you!" Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Cafi. http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_SeptHMtagline1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:26:49 -0700 From: "Marc Alberts" Subject: RE: tl;dr (0% Roback content) Sebastian wrote: > -- Rex is rumored to have mumbled on 11. > September 2007 17:08:54 -0700 regarding tl;dr (0% Roback content): > > > The Cure, "Seventeen Seconds". No, never heard this before, > > That's so weird! To me that is the quintessential Cure record! I've > known > it, like, forever. From that period, I would think that "Boys Don't Cry/Three Imaginary Boys" would be the quitessential one. Maybe that's just me. Personally, if I could only have one Cure album, I'd probably go with "Head on the Door." > > > and I don't > > think I recognize a single song. > > You're kidding, right? You can't possibly have lived through the 80s > without knowing "A Forest"!? It's even been covered by Nouvelle Vague, > for > crying out loud. That seems to be the one most casual fans know. Still, it's not like it was "Killing an Arab" in terms of widespread fame, so I think you may be being a bit hard on Rex (only a bit :). > > > Which is not to say it's not good, but > > it's really an almost astonishingly primitive and minimalist > recording. > > As are all Cure records that I count as such. I really only count the > first > four ones. After that they became mainstream pop and I ignored them. This is where I disagree. To me, the Cure pretty much seemed to go from minimalist through the first two albums and then began evolving, seeming to add one additional melodic instrumental voice per album. By the time they were "pop" by your standards, they were still exquisitely minimalist by my standards and I think by most people's standards. To me, they dispensed with the minimalism completely only once they got to "Disintegration." > > I can't make out much of what > > Robert Smith is saying. It's kinda like "I Often Dream of Trains" > with > > beats, sounding a set of particularly anguished demos that just had > to be > > released as-is. I can see why this was compelling, and I actually > like > > it a good deal, but it seems like such an anomaly for its time, at > least > > as a release for an up-and-coming band, and it's very hard to > reconcile > > this with the kind(s) of beast(s) The Cure would become, both in > terms of > > the lush sound and the songwriting. I've never heard "Pornography" > all > > the way through, either, but am I to believe it's darker than this? > > "Faith" is the darkest, if you ask me. I'd agree with this--"Faith" is very, very dark. > > At my school, *everyone* listened to The Cure, or so it seemed. I > wasn't > even a fan or anything (I've never been to a show), but their music was > something that was always around you. This whole discussion reminds me of one of my favorite misheard lyrics ever, the "Someone played The Cure/The one that no one liked" opening to "Your Phone's Off The Hook, But You're Not" by X. When somebody showed me the real lyrics after all the years of mishearing it, I almost fell on the floor. As with many misheard lyrics, I kind of wish mine were the correct version.... Marc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:09:05 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Of "Eb" and Oceanography On Sep 12, 2007, at 3:20 PM, Michael Sweeney wrote: > Tom Clark sez: > >> On Sep 11, 2007, at 6:45 PM, Stacked Crooked wrote: >> >>> >> that counts: >>> "You've Got a Sweet Mouth on you Baby" & "Elizabeth Jade"> >>> >>> holy fuckmachine! i'd had no idea! fegs are the best! >> >> Halfway decent film too. But then again I've always had a thing >> for Lili Taylor. Robyn's "Judas Sings" plays over the end credits. > > Never saw "Slipping...," but I DO know that "Judas Sings" plays > over the end credits of "Judas Kiss" (mmm - Carla Gugino....) > Oh shit - you're right! I knew it was in some movie with an actress I love! > > Michael "PS - Tom Clark (re: Fantasy Football): Fuck you!" Sweeney I got the "Viagra High Score of the Week"! Erections FTW! - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:17:03 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Of "Eb" and iPods On Sep 12, 2007, at 2:56 PM, Capuchin wrote: > On Wed, 12 Sep 2007, Tom Clark wrote: >> >> Of course. It's all about the 30-pin connector now. > > But, err, why? > I mean, don't lots of little things use a three-ring minijack? It > seems like it could easily become a standardized patch cable. I didn't make the policy, but I guess it could be just that it duplicates functionality that is already contained in the 30-pin connector. - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:27:50 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: My name is "Eb": Somebody get me a cheeseburger On 9/12/07, michael wells wrote: > > Shank is a surprisingly enjoyable place to catch a show; the sound is > great > - for a rectangular room - and it's near a trendy/university area. ISTR > getting a decent AUD recording there the most recent time Robyn played. > Plus > Jeffrey might actually go this time around. I really should - it's been years. I've totally fallen out of the concert-going thing in recent years. This fall there are a bunch of shows I wouldn't mind seeing...but, uh, I probably won't. Anyway: yes, Shank is a nice room. The owner has a reputation for being something of a jerk - but he does care about music, and he's put a lot of money into making it a nice place to play. If musicians complain about him, it isn't about the sound or care he takes w/the system. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:28:51 -0400 (EDT) From: djini@voicenet.com Subject: Nina Nastasia/Jim White Hey fegs, Has anyone seen Nina Nastasia and/or Jim White in concert? I love Jim White's stuff and have regretted not seeing the "Wrong-Eyed Jesus" (movie) tour. I know nothing about NN. I did like White's collaboration with Aimee Mann, and from what I'm reading about NN they seem kind of comparable... Anyway, trying to decide whether to travel to see this show. Thoughts? Jeanne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:33:18 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: tl;dr (0% Roback content) On 9/12/07, Marc Alberts wrote: > > > > > and I don't > > > think I recognize a single song. > > > > You're kidding, right? You can't possibly have lived through the 80s > > without knowing "A Forest"!? It's even been covered by Nouvelle Vague, > > for > > crying out loud. > > That seems to be the one most casual fans know. Still, it's not like it > was > "Killing an Arab" in terms of widespread fame, so I think you may be being > a > bit hard on Rex (only a bit :). To explain a bit, the fashion in which I was listening to the record did not allow me to see the track names. So I went through about four rounds of "This is that one song" (which was "A Forest", although I blanked on the title), and then the next song started, and I thought, "No, THIS is that one song", and so on, until I realized I didn't know my early Cure well enough to claim to have listened closely to "A Forest" or "that one song" even if it was on "Seventeen Seconds". > This is where I disagree. To me, the Cure pretty much seemed to go from > minimalist through the first two albums and then began evolving, seeming > to > add one additional melodic instrumental voice per album. By the time they > were "pop" by your standards, they were still exquisitely minimalist by my > standards and I think by most people's standards. To me, they dispensed > with the minimalism completely only once they got to "Disintegration." > I basically knew the singles comp, some bits of it better than others, and then the records from KMKMKM on. I've slowly accrued the actual early albums over the past, let's say, six years ago. > At my school, *everyone* listened to The Cure, or so it seemed. I > wasn't > even a fan or anything (I've never been to a show), but their music was > something that was always around you. My school was all hair-metal all the time. There was a small subset of people who liked, you know, this kind of music; they were called "pinheads", and that term seemed to cover people who liked everything from hardcore to what would now be called "goth". I was one of them but they didn't know it. But there were enough of them that by the time, again, KMKMKM came out, it was a mini-event, and I knew it was big news, but I wasn't even cool enough to hang out with the pinheads, so I just heard the parking lot music, which was, like, Dokken. I was suspicious of The Cure at the time because of the image thing-- once I got into music, I kinda bypassed the really popular pinhead bands (except R.E.M. and the Bunnymen) and went straight for Sonic Youth, Husker Du, The Fall, RH, and older stuff like Television, Buzzcocks, The Only Ones. In college, I moved to the big city, whereThe Cure and Depeche Mode and stuff suddenly were already mainstream. Bizarro '80's World, basically, although Sonic Youth and their ilk were still pretty obscure in that realm. But that sort of allowed me to look at those "pinhead" bands clearly and realize that I basically did like The Cure, New Order, and Bauhaus (etc.), and really didn't like Depeche Mode or The Smiths that much. Ever since I've been moving backwards into what was supposed to be the music of my youth, but I've often gone up obscure alleys before fully inspecting the main drag... - -Rex, promising not to review Dokken tomorrow. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:37:55 -0700 From: Rex Subject: tl;dr episode iv: a new hope (sandoval) The Three O'Clock, "Baroque Hoedown EP & Stray Tracks". At some point I realized that this EP is named after the Perrey & Kingsley piece that went on to become the basis for Disneyland's Electric Light Parade, which is kind of odd. This has "I Go Wild", which is the 3OC tune I'd known the best before. Punchy little set of songs. I've just seen that the "Ever After / Arrive Without Traveling" twofer is available used at Amazon for like $8, so I'll be ordering that forthwith. Trivia: my drummer briefly played with Quercio at some point and says it was a pretty bizarre experience: Quercio, who is gay, was irritated with the drummer, who is straight, for being too "femme". The drummer eventually showed up to a gig wearing a dress, and I think that was the end of that. I've never been too clear on what the project was don't think it was Permanent Green Light, but I'll ask him again. New Age Steppers, "Action Battlefield". A lot more song-oriented than the self-titled album, composed mostly of covers of songs I've never heard in their original versions. Ari Upp sounds radically different on these songs, still idiosyncratic, but also a very good singer in a semi-conventional way (so much so that it took me a while to realize that she'd stepped aside for Neneh Cherry on one song). This goes, I suppose, to show that a lot of The Slits' edginess in the vocal department came from the back-and-forth running commentary between Ari and Viv (and maybe occasionally othersI'm not sure, but it's definitely prototypical for, but way weirder than, the Sleater-Kinney model) and the radical structures and textures of the songs. While I'm fully in love with that aspect of The Slits, it is very pleasant indeed to hear Ari singing "prettily" (anything else would sound incongruous with these songs), with conventional harmonies and everything. The real trippy dub factor is way down from the first Steppers album, but Ari will keep me coming back to this one. A gateway drug into the wider world of dub? Who can say? The Windbreakers, "Run". More totally pleasant power pop I'm again reminded of the Holsapple-led latter-day dB's. And again, I think it's the workaday, craftsman approach to the songs that makes this stuff stick to my ribs a little less that more pyschedelia-tinged material like the Paisleybands I don't know if that's because trippy connotes slightly weird and dangerous or what, but it just seems like any additional twist on the formula (quirkiness, artiness, rootsiness) helps to put it over. Actually a few of the numbers on this album benefit from slight changes in instrumentation: mandolin, here, spooky organ there hey, we have a winner here, at what must've been the start of side 2: a ballad called either "Material Eyes" or "Materialize". That's the kind of thing albums like this need. Oh, and then they pull out the Coral Sitar and the "Tomorrow Never Knows" beat on the next song, and then we're into Byrds/Church territory for "Voices in My Head", so I shall cease to bitch of a lack of psyche side 2 appears to be quite Paisley-worthy indeed. Maybe it's kicking in for me. Still, that band name roll 'em all down. The Pop Group. "We Are All Prostitutes". Ain't it the truth. I think my co-workers really do think I'm a little nuts when I listen to this kind of thing (to say nothing of all those Fall records), but what the hell. I'm not yet sure that there's much point in comparing one Pop Group album to another this maybe a sort of compilation, maybe of leftover tracks I'm not sure. Most of these songs seem to lean a little heavier on the very funky beats, and there's a little more demented violin than ghastly saxophone. This has "Amnesty Report" on it, which I previously knew as a Mike Watt b-side with, I think, Perry Farrell on the recited vocal. The Minutemen connection again hearing The Pop Group for the first time so many years after first encountering The Minutemen is reminiscent of being introduced to Neu! after years of Stereolab exposure: it doesn't make the later group any less good, but it does debunk any myth about them springing from Zeus's forehead. Opal, "Happy Nightmare Baby". Okay, I never really meant to totally dis Hope Sandoval outright she's fine and all, particularly when kept far from The Chemical Brothers it's just a mystery to me why Mazzy Star became so very very much more popular than Opal, and it can't be because of the frontperson's charisma. Most likely it was just an odd, brief time in pop music history when being female and sad was commercially viable; rarely before or since has so much really good and really bad music been filed together as a genre (maybe "New Wave" comes close). Then again, this album is a lot hairier, looser, and rougher than the MS that I've heard, so it might not've rocketed to the top of the AAA(?) chart no matter when it was released. The tone shifts from song to song, but a bluesy fuzztone guitar dominates a lot of it. Strangely, it feelsperhaps is meant to feela little less focused than the "Early Recordings" collection. Kendra Smith's voice is buried under sludge on some tracks, but just when you think that that's because murk is the name of the game, she's right back out in from on the rolling, vaguely latin-sounding (!) title track. That and the proto-MBV closing epic make the whole thing worthwhile, but there's a lot to enjoy elsewhere, too. Grinderman, "Grinderman". As with any of these deals where an established, "mature" artist rebrands his/her/themselves with a new band identity and more aggressive approach (Tin Machine, Electrafixion , 50 Foot Wave, Wir okay, forget that last one), you could take almost any aspect of the Grinderman project and legitimately ask: "Why?" But an equally legitimate answer to each of those questions would be "Why not?", since history will basically judge whether the move is cynical or inspired. So fuck it, is the record any good? Yeah, it's pretty good. Considering that Nick Cave's work is always challenging and confrontational in some way, and the fact that the Bad Seeds sound was dissipating on the last album(s) anyway, this hardly seems like a radical departure. In fact, the sound jumps around a lot, and it's hardly the full-on sonic assault I'd expectedthere are ballads and shuffles and one groovy number that seems to borrow the guitar solo from "Like A Hurricane" outright. If anything, Cave sounds a little more playful than usual I mean, there are grizzly and sordid details aplenty, but he seems not to have held himself responsible for producing an exacting, weighty magnum opus of a statement this time out. Nobody would mistake this for anything other than the new Nick Cave album, but whatever with that. Meanwhile, if you ever thought there should be another song beside "Black Angel's Death Song" that's really droney and has no drums and wherein the singer makes a weird hissing noise between verses for no discernible reason, well, now there is one: the title track. The Bangles, "All Over the Place". I'm pretty sure I have listened to this all the way through, and I've definitely heard all of most of its contents at one time or another, but just to be sure, and to round out my Paisley input, and for the opportunity to listen to a Kimberley Rew composition other than that one song, why not? There's not really a bad song on the record, and I don't care what they girls were wearing in the video for "Hero Takes a Fall" (although it is pretty fucking funny), there's just about zero '80's trendiness in the sound, which is really amazing, considering how hot a commodity a girl band must have been at the time, and how bad so many albums ended up sounding. This is just sounds joyous and honest, and very very good. One must love Vicki Peterson one simply must, really, especially at this point, before she was playing Carvins ("They were free", she says). Hell, this is even better than I remember. Is there any package that collects early rarities, the stuff from The Bangs and that sort of thing? I need me some of that action. Starf*cker trivia: when the Bangles recorded "Doll Revolution" a few years ago, Michael Steele was still in the band, but as of last year she is officially not. The reason? Sources close to the band say, "because she is crazy". And that Kimberley (not a girl) Rew song is really fantastic, a perfect little transatlantic working class solidarity anthem for When Reagan Mauled America. The Sound, "From the Lions Mouth". See, the thing about this band is that back in the early '90's I played in this '80's sounding band that everybody hated because we sounded all '80's and postpunk, right? And a couple of those guys were really into The Sound, which I thought was funny because I'd never heard of them, but I'd been in this crappy high school cover band called, get this, "The Sound". Yeah, I know. So I heard some of The (real) Sound's songs back then and wasn't too impressed. Then way back in the mid 2000's when there were all these '80's-sounding bands that everybody loved, I heard this song on Morning Becomes Eclectic that sounded like a really good '80's-sounding band, maybe Editors or somebody, and then Nic Harcourt back announced it as "Skeletons" by The Sound, from a BBC Sessions collection, and that really piqued my interest. The studio version of that song is on this album. It's not quite as immediate in this incarnation the mix there and on the album in general is a little synth-heavy for my tastes as these things go, although at times it sounds exactly like The Cure did around the same time. I think the hardcore fans are right in rating "All Fall Down" as the best Sound album, but this is pretty good, too, also better than "Jeopardy". Borland seems to have matured as a songwriter pretty quickly (does his use of the phrase "fatal attraction" predate the film?), and when he cuts loose on guitar, it sounds great. The (again again again!) dub touches in the bass are interesting as well, the synth handclaps less so, but it is what it was. I don't quite buy the line that this band could've been "the next U2" (and what is up with my repeatedly mentioning U2 in these reviews? Am I Robert Hilburn's sock puppet or something?) I don't think Borland's vocals are either dramatic or mannered enough to have broken through at that time. That just leaves the question of what the hell happened with the Bunnymen. But The Sound deserves way better than to just be forgotten when many lesser lights get played to death on '80's Flashback Lunches across the dial, and I'm capable of mistaking them for a 21st century group on the radio. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:31:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Jill Brand Subject: American Versions of the Dream Well, after Lauren wrote that she had ordered Jerky Versions of the Dream from amazon.uk, I decided, on a whim, to see if they had released it on CD in the States as well...and YES!!! I just ordered it (along with Tedy Bruschi's book about his stroke - I'm a Pats sadfangirl even if they do cheat with HGH and video cameras) and will just be so happy to hear Some Will Pay for What Others Pay to Avoid. Jill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:44:25 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Nina Nastasia/Jim White On 9/12/07, djini@voicenet.com wrote: > > Hey fegs, > > Has anyone seen Nina Nastasia and/or Jim White in concert? I love Jim > White's stuff and > have regretted not seeing the "Wrong-Eyed Jesus" (movie) tour. I know > nothing about NN. > I did like White's collaboration with Aimee Mann, and from what I'm > reading about NN > they seem kind of comparable... Anyway, trying to decide whether to travel > to see this > show. I think it's the "other" Jim White, first of all: the drummer for the Dirty Three, not the _Wrong-Eyed Jesus_ guy. Sorry to disappoint you on that score. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:51:22 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: tl;dr episode iv: a new hope (sandoval) On 9/12/07, Rex wrote: > > Trivia: my drummer briefly played with > Quercio at some point and says it was a pretty bizarre experience: > Quercio, > who is gay, was irritated with the drummer, who is straight, for being too > "femme". The drummer eventually showed up to a gig wearing a dress, and I > think that was the end of that. I've never been too clear on what the > project was don't think it was Permanent Green Light, but I'll ask him > again. This is funny...I didn't know Quercio was gay until you mentioned it, but he comes across so very macho, with that tough, deep bass voice of his, that it's surprising that he'd have a problem w/the drummer being "femme." (Note to those who have not heard Michael Quercio: in fact, his voice makes Jon Anderson's sound deep.) > > if you ever thought there should be another song beside "Black Angel's > Death > Song" that's really droney and has no drums and wherein the singer makes a > weird hissing noise between verses for no discernible reason, well, now > there is one: the title track. I thought I'd read that that hissing sound was someone setting off a fire hydrant, or something like that. > > could've been "the next U2" (and what is up with my repeatedly mentioning > U2 > in these reviews? Am I Robert Hilburn's sock puppet or something?) And what does Robert Hilburn etc etc etc. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 02:17:53 +0000 From: "Michael Sweeney" Subject: Re: Nazi Whores Rex wrote: >On 9/12/07, Jason Brown wrote: > >>I'll always love Temple of Doom. i love the action scenes, the bugs, >>the monkey brains, the Kali stuff... But perhaps its because i was 8 >>when in came out and that movie is tailor made for push all the >>buttons for a kid that age. > >That's why I didn't like it (I was probably 14 or so). It seemed so >much more kiddified than the first one. They added the cute kid, >replaced the strong female character with a whiny shrieker, and yeah, >juvenile grossout jokes. The third one was an improvement, but again, >the love interest in Raiders was so perfect... the choice to have Indy >have "Bond girls" in each film held 'em back. ...The "Bond girls" excuse / approach (maintained on-and-off these many years by Spielberg and / or Lucas) may have some root in reality...but I'm old enough / enough of a fan / plugged in enough (and enough of a Karen Allen fan) to recall that they were at least _trying_ to get her for the 2nd film...and when that didn't work (or she wasn't as interested...or it was the $$$), they ended up using the "prequel" / "Bond girls" excuse. As I said, it may have been part of the plan all along (I know the whole project sprung from them wanting to do a Bond-like ongoing heroic character), but, IIRC, there was at least some excuse-making / "plan B" tap-dancing involved... And, for what it's worth (as a big fan)..."Raiders" - about perfect: A+; "Crusade" - really satisfying and very re-watchable: A-; "Temple" - enjoyed at the time (I was 22), but seeming slighter in retrospect: maybe a B, but haven't seen it in ages, and do want to revisit it... Michael "Not named after the dog" Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes! http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2 ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #331 ********************************