From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #315 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, September 4 2007 Volume 16 : Number 315 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: fucked by David Duchovny [Benjamin Lukoff ] Re: fucked by David Duchovny [Benjamin Lukoff ] Re: fucked by David Duchovny ["Jason Brown" ] Re: yes, sir (was: Re: fucked by David Duchovny) [Benjamin Lukoff ] Re: fucked by David Duchovny [Benjamin Lukoff ] Re: fucked by David Duchovny [Benjamin Lukoff ] Re: fucked by David Duchovny [2fs ] Re: yes, sir (was: Re: fucked by David Duchovny) [Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: fucked by David Duchovny On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Rex wrote: > This was attempted all over the place in Trek, too... remember "Mr. > Saavik"? Of course it's also in stuff like "Starship Troopers", but > in that context it's basically an excuse for T&A. But, even, there, > without the vomit. Not much T&A in "Starship Troopers" IIRC...perhaps you're thinking of "I Will Fear No Evil" ;) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 22:51:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: fucked by David Duchovny On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, 2fs wrote: > Also (the things you find out on the internet), "sir" is apparently Bosnian > for "cheese." Hmm...looks like "Bosnian" is a recognized language now. Thought it was still Serbo-Croatian... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_language ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 22:56:19 -0700 From: "Jason Brown" Subject: Re: fucked by David Duchovny On 9/3/07, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Rex wrote: > > This was attempted all over the place in Trek, too... remember "Mr. > > Saavik"? Of course it's also in stuff like "Starship Troopers", but > > in that context it's basically an excuse for T&A. But, even, there, > > without the vomit. > > Not much T&A in "Starship Troopers" IIRC...perhaps you're thinking of "I > Will Fear No Evil" ;) Maybe Ben is just referring to the novel or the basic cable cut of the movie , but there is a pretty gratuitous unisex shower scene in the first half of the movie. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 23:04:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: yes, sir (was: Re: fucked by David Duchovny) On Sat, 1 Sep 2007, lep wrote: > my only problem with it is i would imagine it's still grammatically > incorrect (not that that would stop _me_ from using it) but, as you > point out, that can change. Usage books will catch up to actual usage one of these days--meantime, it's perfectly grammatical, but (I suppose) non-standard. > i haven't seen it. i recall the violence being described as gory > enough that i didn't want to see it. i am fairly desensitized, but > don't like for violence for violence sake. the one thing that does Didn't see "Halloween" this weekend then, eh? :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 23:19:24 -0700 From: "Jason Brown" Subject: Re: fucked by David Duchovny On 9/3/07, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, 2fs wrote: > > > Also (the things you find out on the internet), "sir" is apparently Bosnian > > for "cheese." > > Hmm...looks like "Bosnian" is a recognized language now. Thought it was > still Serbo-Croatian... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_language my understanding is that, like Serbian and Croatian, Bosnian is basically Serbo-Croatian and the separate language status is a nationalist construct. Its probably arguable that they are actually even separate dialects of Serbo-Croatian. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 23:23:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: fucked by David Duchovny On Mon, 3 Sep 2007, Jason Brown wrote: > On 9/3/07, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > > On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Rex wrote: > > > This was attempted all over the place in Trek, too... remember "Mr. > > > Saavik"? Of course it's also in stuff like "Starship Troopers", but > > > in that context it's basically an excuse for T&A. But, even, there, > > > without the vomit. > > > > Not much T&A in "Starship Troopers" IIRC...perhaps you're thinking of "I > > Will Fear No Evil" ;) > > Maybe Ben is just referring to the novel or the basic cable cut of the > movie , but there is a pretty gratuitous unisex shower scene in the > first half of the movie. Yeah, I guess I was thinking the novel. Saw the movie on basic cable, wasn't impressed. But I didn't think it was the apex of evil, either. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 23:24:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: fucked by David Duchovny On Mon, 3 Sep 2007, Jason Brown wrote: > > Hmm...looks like "Bosnian" is a recognized language now. Thought it was > > still Serbo-Croatian... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_language > > my understanding is that, like Serbian and Croatian, Bosnian is > basically Serbo-Croatian and the separate language status is a > nationalist construct. Its probably arguable that they are actually > even separate dialects of Serbo-Croatian. Likely...I assume they are all mutually intelligible. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 01:30:03 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: fucked by David Duchovny On 9/4/07, Jason Brown wrote > > On 9/3/07, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > > On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, 2fs wrote: > > > > > Also (the things you find out on the internet), "sir" is apparently > Bosnian > > > for "cheese." > > > > Hmm...looks like "Bosnian" is a recognized language now. Thought it was > > still Serbo-Croatian... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_language > > my understanding is that, like Serbian and Croatian, Bosnian is > basically Serbo-Croatian and the separate language status is a > nationalist construct. Its probably arguable that they are actually > even separate dialects of Serbo-Croatian. Oh now we're going to get into the whole language/dialect thing: what makes something a separate language vs a dialect of the same language... FWIW, I said "Bosnian" (as in "apparently 'sir' is Bosnian for 'cheese'") because that's what Wiktionary had in its entry for "sir." Not taking political sides in the whole your-ancestors-were-bastards-800-years-ago-so-STAB! thing. Other than if we could wipe religion and nationalism out of people's heads, we'd - well hell we'd find some other dumbass thing to slaughter each other over. Yellow light! No - amber light! - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 10:05:37 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: yes, sir (was: Re: fucked by David Duchovny) - --On 1. September 2007 17:40:49 -0400 lep wrote: >> It's certainly true that "sir" connotes more respect than, say, "ma'am." Huh, I never knew that. Isn't that really more a function of people respecting men more than women, thus transferring that to salutations? Do they *really* respect women more when they call them "sir"? Or ist it just on the surface? > (as a side note, i don't like it when i'm called ms. i prefer the > term miss. i've (thus far) escaped entering into any > seemed-like-a-good-idea-at-the-time marriages, and so give me the damn > girl scout badge that says "miss." on the other, what are folks to do > these days? so unless i know the person well, or it's going to be an > ongoing "hi ms." every morning, i would never bother to say anything.) I think the entire distinction is ridiculous. Fortunately we've outgrown it in German in a different way. The traditional forms were Fr"aulein for Miss and Frau for Mrs., but for a pretty long time now only Frau is used. So it's as though every woman would be called Mrs. Nobody thinks that is strange anymore, although I can kinda see that it would be weird in English. I can't remember times when the disctinction was made in German, so I don't really know if it was initially awkward to call unwed women Frau ... Anyway, to invent a new term (Ms.) seems even more awkward to me. And I'm always scared that I might mispronounce Ms. as Miss and get beaten up or something ;-) Cheers, Sebastian - -- b. Sebastian Hagedorn b Hagedorn@spinfo.uni-koeln.de b' http://www.uni-koeln.de/~a0620/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 01:15:53 -0700 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: My name is "Eb": Somebody get me a cheeseburger as i'd been presuming would be the case since the day the schedule was announced, the final two acts of bumbershoot were the best: the frames and the pharmacists. the latter closed with a chumbawamba cover followed by a springsteen cover -- which, i'm thinking, first time in rock and/or roll history these two artists have been covered back-to-back? there was something in the air at that particular venue this year. devotchka said it was their favourite show of the summer. the watson twins said they want to come back every year. hansard seemed near tears at the adulation of the crowd. leo said it was the band's "funnest" show ever. as it happens, leo's last words of the evening were somewhat robynesque: "thank you, space needle." now comes the hard part: the post-bumbershoot depression. every year, it seems to take a little bit longer to get over it. tee-hee. i'm gonna use this sentence in shitbrain! (yes, it will return - -- just taking a little break right now...) i assumed she meant portland, maine. but i agree that pittsburgh's a helluva interesting city. must say, however, that, in general, pennsylvania can kiss my dimpled ass. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 03:36:52 -0500 From: "Aaron L." Subject: Re: jawohl, mein Herr (war: Re: von David Ducovny gebumst) At 03:05 9/4/2007, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: >I think the entire distinction is ridiculous. Fortunately we've >outgrown it in German in a different way. The traditional forms were >Fr"aulein for Miss and Frau for Mrs., but for a pretty long time now >only Frau is used. So it's as though every woman would be called Mrs. I found this fascinating, and yes, it does seem quite awkward in English. You might find it interesting that when we learn German here (U.S.) as a foreign language, we still learn Fraeulein and Frau. I studied German for eight years -- four in middle school and four in college -- and not once did I learn that Frau was universal in this way. If it really is the case that "for a pretty long time," it has been fairly unheard of to use Fraeulein, it makes no sense to me that no one teaches it that way when you learn it as a foreign language. I find it particularly frustrating since I always thought my German was quite good. I had a professor at the University of Houston tell me that I was surely either a native speaker or had lived in a German-speaking country at some point, because my accent was so good. Now I wonder how many other "wrong" things I say. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 03:44:10 -0500 From: "Aaron L." Subject: Re: yes, sir (was: Re: chauffered by David Duchovny) At 19:53 9/3/2007, Jeff wrote: >After Moss Elixir and Ole! Tarantula not to mention a certain PI era >b-side.... That simple mention had the direct effect of me queuing up DGE and listening to it through... well, at least three times, since I'm on play #3 at the moment. I usually listen to (well, most any, but especially Robyn's) music in album form, and I forget about b-sides more often than not. I'm pretty sure it's been literally years since I've heard this, but it's sooooo nice. Makes me remember when I first stumbled across the CDS (slim cardboard sleeve) completely unexpectedly, years ago. Robyn should record something with Stipe again. Their voices mesh so nicely, and I especially love the way the harmonies and spiralling guitar all overlap on this track. I think I'm going to have to queue up "She Doesn't Exist" next. Yep. That's what I'll do. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 09:03:25 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: Fwd: [Robyn Hitchcock] I Wanna Go Backwards now available for pre-order >Still pretty damned excited about this. Wasn't gonna chuck those Rhino discs anyway... I never bought any of the Rhino editions, having only the original Aftermath, Glass Fish, Midnight Music or Twin Tone versions of BSDR, IH, IODOT, EYE etc. I don't have Invisible Hits either. The only multiple I have is 3 versions of UM. I don't plan on getting rid of any of these. Should I get any of the Rhino's? I definitely getting the 5 disc box. Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 09:14:43 -0400 From: "m swedene" Subject: Re: Fwd: [Robyn Hitchcock] I Wanna Go Backwards now available for pre-order > I never bought any of the Rhino editions, having only the original > Aftermath, Glass Fish, Midnight Music > or Twin Tone versions of BSDR, IH, IODOT, EYE etc. I don't have > Invisible Hits either. The only multiple I have is 3 versions of UM. I > don't plan on getting rid of any of these. I never bought the Rhino re-issues either. I have always wished that some industreous person would have put all the additional tracks on to cdrs to share with the community, since these are long out of print. I pre-ordered both the vinyl and cds of this. The Vinyl comes with an autograph of some sort. Should be cool. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 15:25:22 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: jawohl, mein Herr (war: Re: von David Ducovny gebumst) - --On 4. September 2007 03:36:52 -0500 "Aaron L." wrote: > At 03:05 9/4/2007, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: >> I think the entire distinction is ridiculous. Fortunately we've >> outgrown it in German in a different way. The traditional forms were >> Fr"aulein for Miss and Frau for Mrs., but for a pretty long time now >> only Frau is used. So it's as though every woman would be called Mrs. > > I found this fascinating, and yes, it does seem quite awkward in English. I guess that would change pretty quickly but I really can't say. I should ask my parents how it was for them. > You might find it interesting that when we learn German here (U.S.) as a > foreign language, we still learn Fraeulein and Frau. Really? That's weird. There's seriously nobody anymore who uses that. Check this article: According to them it was still in use in the 80s and 90s, but not in my circles! They also say it's still in use in Switzerland. That may be so, I have no idea. > I studied German > for eight years -- four in middle school and four in college -- and not > once did I learn that Frau was universal in this way. When was that? > If it really is > the case that "for a pretty long time," it has been fairly unheard of to > use Fraeulein, it makes no sense to me that no one teaches it that way > when you learn it as a foreign language. I agree. But I think it's always the case that foreign students lag behind actual use of a language. Two examples, one in English and one in German: I never learned in school that it's pretty usual to use the adjective form instead of the adverbial form, e.g. "real soon now" etc. Of course that's not "correct" in a strict sense, but it's what people do. By the same token I bet you always learned to use the preposition "wegen" with the genitive case. That's certainly true for the written language and in formal settings, but you'd better use the dative in colloquial speech unless you want to to be considered a pedantic ass. > I find it particularly frustrating since I always thought my German was > quite good. Don't worry. These are the things you learn very quickly when you actually spend some time in a foreign country. I take it you haven't yet spent a lot of time in a German-speaking country? Otherwise you'd've probably known about the Fr"aulein/Frau thing. > I had a professor at the University of Houston tell me that > I was surely either a native speaker or had lived in a German-speaking > country at some point, because my accent was so good. Now I wonder how > many other "wrong" things I say. You are bound to make mistakes ... but I can promise you that everybody will appreciate your effort! Cheers, Sebastian - -- b. Sebastian Hagedorn b Hagedorn@spinfo.uni-koeln.de b' http://www.uni-koeln.de/~a0620/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:27:36 -0500 From: "Aaron L." Subject: Re: jawohl, mein Herr (war: Re: von David Duchovny gebumst) At 08:25 9/4/2007, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: >> I studied German >>for eight years -- four in middle school and four in college -- and not >>once did I learn that Frau was universal in this way. > >When was that? 1989-1992 in high school, 1992-1996 in college. I would be really curious to know whether U.S. high school students of today are still learning it the same way. I think I'll try to do a little research and see if I can find out. > I never learned in school that it's pretty usual to use the > adjective form instead of the adverbial form, e.g. "real soon now" > etc. Of course that's not "correct" in a strict sense, but it's what people do. Well, yeah some people do, but that usage in particular is one that just grates on my ear. I would understand it, obviously, but I would never use "real" as an adverb myself. Then again, I also spent my college years earning a degree in English (concentration in linguistics), so maybe I'm atypical here. But I do understand the point you're making and I'm sure there are other examples that would offend my ear less. >Don't worry. These are the things you learn very quickly when you >actually spend some time in a foreign country. I take it you haven't >yet spent a lot of time in a German-speaking country? Otherwise >you'd've probably known about the Fr"aulein/Frau thing. The only actual outside-the-classroom German usage I've had was serving as interpreter when a group of (East) Berliners came to visit their "sister church" in my city here in Illinois. I fully intend to do some world travelling later in life, when I can afford it. And I do try to keep up by reading in German occasionally. The first thing to go when you don't practice is gender of various nouns that you don't use that often. Also, if I am not speaking it on a regular basis, I find that the process of remembering various conjugations, articles, and adjective endings becomes a little more conscious. I can still do it, but I find that I'm speaking quite haltingly as my mind sometimes stops to come up with the proper word or ending. Now that I'm no longer in school, I don't often have an opportunity to speak it, and I love it when I do get the chance. I'm the manager of a privately-owned fine-dining restaurant (or I was until this week; just accepted a new job), and a couple of weeks ago, an older couple came in who were originally from Salzburg. Though they've lived in this country for 25 years or so, they still spoke German to each other. I had no problem understanding them talking to each other, but I was a little nervous to actually try speaking, but I actually remember more than I would have thought. Granted, we had a pretty simple conversation without much real substance, but the only mistake I know I made was that I said "die Salat," and even after they corrected me and I looked it up, "der Salat" still seems *wrong* to me. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 11:20:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: jawohl, mein Herr (war: Re: von David Duchovny gebumst) On Tue, 4 Sep 2007, Aaron L. wrote: > At 08:25 9/4/2007, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > >> I studied German > >>for eight years -- four in middle school and four in college -- and not > >>once did I learn that Frau was universal in this way. > > > >When was that? > > 1989-1992 in high school, 1992-1996 in college. I would be really > curious to know whether U.S. high school students of today are still > learning it the same way. I think I'll try to do a little research > and see if I can find out. FWIW: one of my college roommates took German, and being fond of foreign languages, I occasionally leafed through his textbook. I distinctly remember seeing a little sidebar article describing the call-every-adult-woman-Frau thing as a fairly recent trend, not universally accepted. My roommate would have purchased the book for the 1987-88 school year, so I imagine it was written sometime in the early to mid '80s. Why I remember small details from a class I didn't even take, while having forgotten 99% of the things I was *supposed* to learn, remains a mystery. - --Chris Big ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 11:29:11 -0400 From: lep Subject: Re: yes, sir (was: Re: fucked by David Duchovny) Sebastian says: > --On 1. September 2007 17:40:49 -0400 lep wrote: > > >> It's certainly true that "sir" connotes more respect than, say, "ma'am." jeff 2fs actually said this in response to something i said. > Huh, I never knew that. Isn't that really more a function of people > respecting men more than women, thus transferring that to salutations? Do > they *really* respect women more when they call them "sir"? Or ist it just > on the surface? on my end (and, though i don't like to speak for people, i imagine on jeff's end), the conversation was about BSG, although what i was saying was something i would imagine of a u.s.military-type structure. i don't know for sure if the military does indeed use "sir", but my general sense is that, because of the how male-dominated that world is, "sir" would indeed connote more respect (although, for all i know, i might think that only based on watching television and movies.) in day-to-day life, the term "sir" would not be used in speaking to a female. i may have been called "sir" once or twice but it generally involved some spaced-out cashier, an "earth to cashier!" look, and a few apologies. > Anyway, to invent a new term (Ms.) seems even more awkward to me. And I'm > always scared that I might mispronounce Ms. as Miss and get beaten up or > something ;-) i think for the most part, women are forgiving because it's the sort of thing that's just begging for a screw-up. a peeve of mine is someone correcting you when you're probably never going to see them again anyway. or when the person correcting you gives you an attitude that can in any way be described as "snippy." i've noticed that a lot of forms (e.g. online information, paperwork from the university, maybe things like journal subscriptions) leave a space for the "mr., miss, ms. mrs." i forget what they call it (i.e. probable name of field). i generally leave it blank. occasionally, i'll put "miss", if i'm in an "oh, i bet jonathan richman would want me to" kind of mood**. as ever, lauren ** a mood i like to think i might have invented. - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 17:31:22 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: jawohl, mein Herr (war: Re: von David Duchovny gebumst) - --On 4. September 2007 11:20:15 -0400 Christopher Gross wrote: >> 1989-1992 in high school, 1992-1996 in college. I would be really >> curious to know whether U.S. high school students of today are still >> learning it the same way. I think I'll try to do a little research >> and see if I can find out. > > FWIW: one of my college roommates took German, and being fond of foreign > languages, I occasionally leafed through his textbook. I distinctly > remember seeing a little sidebar article describing the > call-every-adult-woman-Frau thing as a fairly recent trend, not > universally accepted. My roommate would have purchased the book for the > 1987-88 school year, so I imagine it was written sometime in the early to > mid '80s. That makes sense. I suppose in the early 80s there was still some Fr"aulein-calling going on ... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 17:43:15 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: jawohl, mein Herr (war: Re: von David Duchovny gebumst) - --On 4. September 2007 09:27:36 -0500 "Aaron L." wrote: > At 08:25 9/4/2007, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: >>> I studied German >>> for eight years -- four in middle school and four in college -- and not >>> once did I learn that Frau was universal in this way. >> >> When was that? > > 1989-1992 in high school, 1992-1996 in college. I would be really > curious to know whether U.S. high school students of today are still > learning it the same way. I think I'll try to do a little research and > see if I can find out. Please report back here :-) >> I never learned in school that it's pretty usual to use the >> adjective form instead of the adverbial form, e.g. "real soon now" >> etc. Of course that's not "correct" in a strict sense, but it's what >> people do. > > Well, yeah some people do, but that usage in particular is one that just > grates on my ear. It depends. Sometimes it just fits. But I understand your response. The weird thing is that I'm quite picky myself as far as German is concerned. But with English I really enjoy non-standard variants, such as Mafia English or the African-American English of The Wire. You feel me? > I would understand it, obviously, but I would never > use "real" as an adverb myself. Then again, I also spent my college > years earning a degree in English (concentration in linguistics), so > maybe I'm atypical here. I don't think that linguistics in itself explains it. There's sociolinguistics, for example. My one class there brought me a whole new level of understanding of linguistic stratification. The discussion of overt and covert incentives for e.g. dropping your aitches was a real eye (or should I say ear) opener. > The only actual outside-the-classroom German usage I've had was serving > as interpreter when a group of (East) Berliners came to visit their > "sister church" in my city here in Illinois. I fully intend to do some > world travelling later in life, when I can afford it. You're welcome to stay at my place when you come to Cologne! > And I do try to > keep up by reading in German occasionally. The Web makes that much easier than it used to be. I'd recommend Spiegel Online if you want to keep up with current events: www.spiegel.de. > The first thing to go when > you don't practice is gender of various nouns that you don't use that > often. Also, if I am not speaking it on a regular basis, I find that the > process of remembering various conjugations, articles, and adjective > endings becomes a little more conscious. I can still do it, but I find > that I'm speaking quite haltingly as my mind sometimes stops to come up > with the proper word or ending. I know that feeling from Italian ... I had an Italian friend visiting me recently. The first few hours were terrible, but then it came back. > Granted, we had a pretty simple conversation without > much real substance, but the only mistake I know I made was that I said > "die Salat," and even after they corrected me and I looked it up, "der > Salat" still seems *wrong* to me. :-) My ex-girlfriend's German teacher claimed that Germans haven an innate knowledge of word gender ... of course that's total bullshit! A few words don't even have a fixed gender, e.g. Cola. "Die" ist most common, but many people say "das Cola". The same with "Joghurt", only there it's "der" or "das". - -- b. Sebastian Hagedorn b Hagedorn@spinfo.uni-koeln.de b' http://www.uni-koeln.de/~a0620/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 08:56:40 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: yes, sir (was: Re: fucked by David Duchovny) >Actually it's not even that that bothered me: it was that the violence was >pretty much actively glorified...to the extent that it felt as if the movie >intentionally solicited on behalf of its audience the masochistic torturer's >glee at the victim's pain, agony, But isn't that an element in pretty much every movie Paul Verhoeven's ever made? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 09:50:47 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: My name is "Eb": Somebody get me a cheeseburger On Sep 4, 2007, at 1:15 AM, Stacked Crooked wrote: > contingent, and are always looking for new members!> > > i assumed she meant portland, maine. but i agree that pittsburgh's a > helluva interesting city. must say, however, that, in general, > pennsylvania can kiss my dimpled ass. D'oh! I hadn't even considered Portland, Maine! It is beautiful up there this time of year; August was when we'd head up there to camp at Lake Sebago. On the whole I like PA. Amish country is beautiful, and the Delaware gap makes for some great rafting. Although as you head west people start saying "yin" a lot more, as in "Yins gonna stay for dinner"? Nothing can come close to how much I hate Philly sports fans though. 'cept maybe their accents. - -tc, I know I must have just offended a few people... ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #315 ********************************